The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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brightfame52

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His Death / Blood actually Redeems !

That Christ by His death, the ransom paid, actually redeems from Satan the strong man is set forth here Jer 31:11

11 For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.

Does not that text remind us of what Jesus said here Matt 12:28-29

28 but if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

And let it be noted who it is God ransoms and redeems " Jacob " the Chosen of God , Israel, the seed of Abraham.

Also lets look at Hos 13:14

14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

The redemption Christ effects will deliver from the power of the Grave, which will be more evident at the Second Coming see Jn 5:28-29, but it also delivers from death, which is to include Spiritual death, because it delivers out from the one who had the power of death Heb 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

He delivers by His redeeming blood, those He died for from being dead in sin Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[delivered] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

All for whom Christ died and redeemed, must be quickened out of spiritual death and given life, spiritual life. So redemption secures for God's people regeneration, or Justification unto Life !

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Life here is that quickening we receive in Eph 2: 5

So redemption is the payment of a ransom and the liberation of the ransomed, the giving of life from the dead, a quickening out of trespasses and sins. It must be added that its limited to the elect of God, His Chosen, His Israel, His Jacob out of mankind Lk 1:6840

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

He redeems His Chosen, Those Chosen in their Kinsmen Redeemer, Christ Jesus before the world began !

So Redemption gives Life from the dead.
 
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It is the work of Satan to keep unbelievers minds blinded and unable to see the Truth ...
You do not believe satan works to keep believers' minds blinded and unable to see truth?


Ephesians 4:14 That we [believers - members of the body of Christ] henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive




brightfame52 said:
None for whom Christ died can die unrepentant and in unbelief, that would defeat His blood. !
Nothing "would defeat His blood. !"


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

The precious blood of Jesus is limitless in its ability to provide the propitiation:

The propitiation is for all, not for the first band of believers only. The sins of the whole world are expiated; and if the expiation does not effect the salvation of the sinner, it is because he rejects it, loving the darkness rather than the light (John 3:19). No man - Christian, Jew, or Gentile - is outside the mercy of God, unless he places himself there deliberately.
Pulpit Commentary
 
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Just curious, how do you interpret John 12:47?
I believe John 12:47 should be read in conjunction with John 12:48:

John 12:

47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.



 
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Ezek 1 speaks of a wheel in the middle of a wheel. I believe it depicts the visible church that began on Pentecost as the smaller wheel in the middle and the invisible church as the outer wheel. the outer wheel being all of God's elect and the inner wheel being God's elect that have been permitted to see and understand the mystery of the Gospel that is hidden from the outer wheel of God's elect. All of God's elect will live with him in heaven, but all of God's elect will not be able to see the mystery that is contained in the gospel.
Reading through Ezekiel 1, we find the wheels mentioned in the following verses:

15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.

16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.

19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.

20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.


According to vss 20,21, the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels and according to vs 12, whither the spirit was to go, they [the living creatures] went


Here is what you are saying ForestGreenCook:

The smaller wheel in the middle:

the visible church that began on Pentecost
in the middle
inner wheel being God's elect that have been permitted to see and understand the mystery of the Gospel


The outer wheel:

the invisible church as the outer wheel
outer wheel being all of God's elect
the mystery of the Gospel that is hidden from the outer wheel of God's elect



So you believe that the "inner wheel" is "the visible church that began on Pentecost" which is comprised of "God's elect that have been permitted to see and understand the mystery of the Gospel" and the "outer wheel" is "the invisible church" which is comprised of "God's elect" which have not "been permitted to see and understand the mystery of the Gospel" because that information "is hidden from the outer wheel"?

Is that what you believe?



 

brightfame52

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More on Redemption !

In no stretch of the imagination are those going to hell the objects of Christ redeeming death and blood, for hell is like going into a prison 1 Pet 3:19

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;.

The Redemption that Christ has effected by His Blood for all that He gave Himself a ransom for, He delivered them from the guilt and penalty [legally] of their sins which is called remission of sins Matt 26:28 which is also their Justification before God, for how can anyone whom God cannot lay a charge on not be Justified Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

This is also set forth in this scripture Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This automatically concludes that all for whom Christ shed His blood are Justified before God based upon the redemption that is in His blood..

Not a charge of law breaking or its curse will come against them because of Christ redemption Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us [Believers/Chosen] from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

He also delivers by His redemption from the power of sin, that those Christ died for can serve Him Lk 1:74-75

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

He redeems us by His blood from a vain manner of life, socially and religiously 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

And finally there is an aspect of redemption that is about to come and be applied to the blood redeemed, to be redeemed from this place of sin, yes that's a deliverance Dan 12:141

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

This will be associated with our glorification, Jesus says of it in Lk 21:28

28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption deliverance draweth nigh.
 
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Although this thread discusses the atonement in terms of calvinism vs. arminianism, I think we can all agree that the atonement accomplished many things. I shared about this in this sermon on the atonement (the gist of the message is that Jesus paid for our sins, proved God's love for us, motivated us to love others, and overcame the forces of evil all through the atonement):

 

brightfame52

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The death of Christ not only accomplishes and secures unto the elect their objective standing before God such as [ Justified, reconciled] by His blood, but He also secured our personal sanctification or conversion. Jesus said I sanctify myself [speaking of His High Priestly death] that they [ all for whom He died] may be sanctified Jn 17:19

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that [in order that] they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Hence the cross of Christ enables all those He died for to Love and serve Him in newness of Life, beginning in this life and will serve him forever, thus eternal redemption Heb 9:12 !

Lets look at some scriptures that bring this point out ! 2 Cor 5:15

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

The all He died for here, was in order that they should live [spiritually] and henceforth live for Him.. This is also what is meant in Lk 1:71-7542

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Now as an effect of Christ Death, for all He died, the power of sin is broken [an enemy] in ones Life, setting free the person into a newness of Life, by the Spirit regenerating them and renewing them Titus 3:5
 

brightfame52

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Although this thread discusses the atonement in terms of calvinism vs. arminianism, I think we can all agree that the atonement accomplished many things. I shared about this in this sermon on the atonement (the gist of the message is that Jesus paid for our sins, proved God's love for us, motivated us to love others, and overcame the forces of evil all through the atonement):

Hi, Did you read post 141 ? Whats your thoughts on it ?
 
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Hi, Did you read post 141 ? Whats your thoughts on it ?
There is a sense in which through the atonement we are ransomed/rescued from the power of the devil. But I think it would be taking this imagery too far to insist that some type of payment was made to the devil (I'm not sure if you are implying this).
 

brightfame52

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There is a sense in which through the atonement we are ransomed/rescued from the power of the devil. But I think it would be taking this imagery too far to insist that some type of payment was made to the devil (I'm not sure if you are implying this).
I see you dont understand the post, and no, payment wasn't paid to the devil, the payment was to the justice of God, it is His Law that was sinned against, for it was He that made the penalty of sin death. So can you rethink through the post without the presupposition that the payment was to the devil.
 

brightfame52

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Effects Personal sanctification and good works !

So the death of Christ was for the purpose of effecting for all Christ died their personal sanctification as stated here Eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The word that is the greek word hina:

that, in order that, so that, to the end that


So vs 26 can read

26 in order that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Its stating a Divine Purpose..

So Christ giving His Life for His Church had meaning and purpose. God had chosen the Church in Him Eph 1:4 to be Holy, and so His death accomplishes that.

It [His death] effects a life of Good works Titus 2:14


14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Notice the same purpose word is used hina who gave Himself for us to the end that He might redeem us from all iniquity and purify unto Himself a peculiar people zealous of good works. It makes His People zealous of good works.

The greek word is:

zēlōtēs:

) one burning with zeal, a zealot

2) used of God as jealous of any rival and sternly vindicating his control

3) most eagerly desirous of, zealous for, a thing

a) to acquire a thing, (zealous of)

b) to defend and uphold a thing, vehemently contending for a thing

He causes His People to defend and earnestly contend for the Faith Jude 1:343

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly[zealously] contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
 

ForestGreenCook

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If, as you claim, "the elect" were reconciled to God before they are born, they have no need of reconciliation.

You continue to peddle a false dogma which does not bring the sinner to the Lord Jesus Christ in Whom the sinner is reconciled to God.

Romans 5:10-11 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Prior to being born again, all descendants of Adam were "enemies" in need of the redemption which is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 3:

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

All descendants of Adam have sinned and come short of the glory of God (vs 23).

However, in vs 22 we read that the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe. Those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ ...

And in vs 25 we read that it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood. Again, descendants of Adam who believe ...

Under your scenario, "the elect" do not have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ because "[e]ven before the elect are born into this world as sinners, they have already ... been reconciled to God" . Quit peddling your false dogma. Read your Bible.
By the foreknowledge of God, he knew that none of mankind would seek him, so he chose a larger portion of mankind before he laid the foundation of the world to adopt as his children. When these elect of God are born into this world, they are born sinful and without hope until sometime in their life God puts his Holy Spirit within them in the new birth. Only after they are born again do they have the ability to believe in the things of the Spirit.
 

ForestGreenCook

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"elect unbeliever" ... a figment of your vain imagination.
They were elected before the foundation of the world and when they were born into this world they had no righteousness and were like filthy rags, with no ability to believe in the things of the Spirit until God quickened them to being born again with the imputed righteousness of Christ. During the time of their natural birth until they were born again, they were "elect unbelievers".
 

ForestGreenCook

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Yes, I understand Ephesians 5:25-26 as it pertains to the church.

However, my point was that you stated in Post #15:

"Another accomplishment of the Death of Christ, it ensured the Spiritual cleansing and sanctification of all those He died for. The church."
(bold/underline mine)

The church is not comprised of "all those He died for". There are others who came before Day of Pentecost when the church was established. Christ died for many more than you allow.


Ephesians 5:

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word


In Post #5, @oyster67 stated:

"Eternal salvation for all those who believe, receive, and abide in the vine."

Do you know what it is to abide in the Vine? Here is what Jesus said:


John 15:

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Notice that Ephesians 5:26 indicates we are sanctified (set apart) and cleansed (made pure) by the washing of water by the Word.

And in John 15:3 Jesus told His disciples that they were clean through the Word He had spoken to them. Jesus further encouraged His disciples to abide in Him. This abiding in Jesus is crucial in the life of the believer.

It is God's Word which cleanses us and we must be careful that we stick to God's Word. It is in God's Word that we learn about the Lord Jesus Christ ... that He is the living Word and the born again one is to live in Him:

Ephesians 5:

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
God's elect were born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 63:11) in just the same way that they are born again at Pentecost and thereafter by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
 

brightfame52

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It effects a Life unto Serving God !

Its a shame how many so called preachers of the Gospel, the Cross of Christ, are so in the dark as to what His Death or Cross Work accomplished for all those He died for. Many don't believe that His death accomplished more than a chance to get saved, depending on the sinners response. However the True accomplishment of His death, produces effects and results unto all them He died for, He redeemed by His blood ransom.

His death takes a worthless, and dead and vain life, religious or otherwise and converts it into a Life that serves the True and Living God.

Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

You see that ? This accomplishment is solely by the Blood Of Christ !

The word purge here is the same greek word for purify in Titus 2:1444

14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These are effects of the blood of Christ, of Christ having offered or gave of Himself.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Reading through Ezekiel 1, we find the wheels mentioned in the following verses:

15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.

16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.

19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.

20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.


According to vss 20,21, the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels and according to vs 12, whither the spirit was to go, they [the living creatures] went


Here is what you are saying ForestGreenCook:

The smaller wheel in the middle:

the visible church that began on Pentecost
in the middle
inner wheel being God's elect that have been permitted to see and understand the mystery of the Gospel


The outer wheel:

the invisible church as the outer wheel
outer wheel being all of God's elect
the mystery of the Gospel that is hidden from the outer wheel of God's elect



So you believe that the "inner wheel" is "the visible church that began on Pentecost" which is comprised of "God's elect that have been permitted to see and understand the mystery of the Gospel" and the "outer wheel" is "the invisible church" which is comprised of "God's elect" which have not "been permitted to see and understand the mystery of the Gospel" because that information "is hidden from the outer wheel"?

Is that what you believe?
Yes, and I believe that it is backed up by other scriptures such as Matt 7:13-14. Those that go into the wide gate ( the larger outer wheel) are the elect of God that have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge and are going about trying to establish their own righteousness without submitting themselves unto the righteousness of God. These are made up of many denominations that originated from the Roman Catholic church in the reformation period.

Those who inter the strait gate (the smaller inner wheel) are the elect who have been revealed the mystery of the scriptures, which is the visible church that Christ set up and was constituted on the day of Pentecost.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Effects Personal sanctification and good works !

So the death of Christ was for the purpose of effecting for all Christ died their personal sanctification as stated here Eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The word that is the greek word hina:

that, in order that, so that, to the end that


So vs 26 can read

26 in order that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Its stating a Divine Purpose..

So Christ giving His Life for His Church had meaning and purpose. God had chosen the Church in Him Eph 1:4 to be Holy, and so His death accomplishes that.

It [His death] effects a life of Good works Titus 2:14


14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Notice the same purpose word is used hina who gave Himself for us to the end that He might redeem us from all iniquity and purify unto Himself a peculiar people zealous of good works. It makes His People zealous of good works.

The greek word is:

zēlōtēs:

) one burning with zeal, a zealot

2) used of God as jealous of any rival and sternly vindicating his control

3) most eagerly desirous of, zealous for, a thing

a) to acquire a thing, (zealous of)

b) to defend and uphold a thing, vehemently contending for a thing

He causes His People to defend and earnestly contend for the Faith Jude 1:343

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly[zealously] contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Good post.
 

brightfame52

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More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that ye must be born again, of course He was not commanding him to be born again, for that would be like telling him he must enter back into his mothers womb, but Jesus was stating to him a condition for being able to enter into the Kingdom of God, and I know many would agree with this conclusion.

However there is another reason why one must be born again, if indeed Jesus died for their sins, and that is so they may have a new life in order to now serve God pleasingly in Spirit and in Truth, for they now must serve Him in the newness of life. Rom 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The word for newness is the greek word kainotēs:

newness

a) in the new state of life in which the Holy Spirit places us so as to produce a new state which is eternal life.

Thats right, God's Justice provides for and demands a Newness of Life to serve Him. All for whom Christ died and redeemed must be made alive, because Christ has died the death that they have deserved and has merited for them the Full Blessing of Eternal Life. Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Lets look at Rom 5:18

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. As a end result of the redemption we have in Christ, notice the b section of the verse :

"even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men[without distinction] unto justification of life."

Now Legal, forensic Justification as important as it is, it was not God's only objective for Christ's redeeming death. His death was also purposed to give Life, and this Life comes through the Spirit. Its by His Gift of the Holy Spirit, unto all for whom Christ died and redeemed, we receive Justification unto Life ! based solely upon one act of righteousness or as it states in vs 19, His one act of obedience: Justification unto life by the Spirit is also what Paul refers to in 1 Cor 6:1145

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Justification unto or into life by the Spirit. This must be because the old life has been crucified with the Lord Jesus Christ, all of its sins , past, present and future have been blotted out once and for all, so now we must be born again to serve in the Newness of Life, Gods Justice demands it for Christ sake.
 
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By the foreknowledge of God, he knew that none of mankind would seek him, so he chose a larger portion of mankind before he laid the foundation of the world to adopt as his children. When these elect of God are born into this world, they are born sinful and without hope until sometime in their life God puts his Holy Spirit within them in the new birth. Only after they are born again do they have the ability to believe in the things of the Spirit.

More peddling of a false dogma which does not bring the sinner to the Lord Jesus Christ in Whom the sinner is reconciled to God.

When God says in John 3:16-17 ...

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

... God means the world ... the whole world ... and whosoever means whosoever ... not some "portion of mankind" which you define as "elect of God". :rolleyes: