The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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TheDivineWatermark

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I believe that as well, because we will still be Witnesses for God!
FYI, I had ADDED to my post after you grabbed it to quote it:

but distinguishes these [into/within their own distinct time-frames (see also Dan12:3b)], just as Scripture itself does.)
1) I think you do not grasp when I mean when I say that IRENAEUS *distinguishes* these (just as Scripture itself does);

2) the part i ADDED (after you grabbed my post to quote it), namely Daniel 12:3b, is in the CONTEXT of Daniel chpt 12 speaking of "the WISE [of ISRAEL]" <--NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (who won't BE HERE on the earth then); vv.1,6-7 informs us of the TIME-PERIOD being covered in this context (and WHO it is that are "the WISE" [vv.3b,10,(1)] of this passage... who will be the ones, during that time-frame, "TURN[-ing] many TO RIGHTEOUSNESS" v.3b)
 
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If you can find the biblical term "Church" or "Bride" anywhere between Rev 6 thru 18....let us know.
Revelation 7:
13 Then one of the elders spoke up and said to me, “Who are these wearing white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you are the one who knows.” He said to me, “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “For this reason they stand before God’s throne
and worship him day and night in his temple.
The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
16 They will not hunger or thirst anymore,
nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
17 For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will shepherd them
and lead them to springs of life-giving water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Key portion of this Passage is found in Verse 14:
“These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
 
Dec 29, 2021
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FYI, I had ADDED to my post after you grabbed it to quote it:



1) I think you do not grasp when I mean when I say that IRENAEUS *distinguishes* these (just as Scripture itself does);

2) the part i ADDED (after you grabbed my post to quote it), namely Daniel 12:3b, is in the CONTEXT of Daniel chpt 12 speaking of "the WISE [of ISRAEL]" <--NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (who won't BE HERE on the earth then); vv.1,6-7 informs us of the TIME-PERIOD being covered in this context (and WHO it is that are "the WISE" [vv.3b,10,(1)] of this passage... who will be the ones, during that time-frame, "TURN[-ing] many TO RIGHTEOUSNESS" v.3b)
Revelation 7:
13 Then one of the elders spoke up and said to me, “Who are these wearing white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you are the one who knows.” He said to me, “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “For this reason they stand before God’s throne
and worship him day and night in his temple.
The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
16 They will not hunger or thirst anymore,
nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
17 For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will shepherd them
and lead them to springs of life-giving water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Key portion of this Passage is found in Verse 14:
“These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ ... and where verses 16-17 correspond with Isaiah 49:10 (an EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age passage--the destination-location of those "coming out of THE GREAT tribulation" [vv.9,14 (see also Matt24:14/26:13 the particular msg which WILL BE preached IN / DURING the future TRIB yrs)], "THE GREAT tribulation" aka the SECOND HALF of the future 7 TRIB yrs [same for Dan12:1[3a],6-7 I'd mentioned]).
 
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Getting Beheaded is not equal to “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;

Beheaded = DEATH!

Survived = Made it Through Tribulation!
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Getting Beheaded is not equal to “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;

Beheaded = DEATH!

Survived = Made it Through Tribulation!
They are in heaven DURING the great tribulation.
Martyred by the ac
 

TheDivineWatermark

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@Heaven_Bound , not 100% of the "saints" existing in the TIB yrs will be BEHEADED [/martyred]:


--Daniel 12:12 states, "BLESSED is he that WAITETH and COMETH TO the 1335 days"


--Dan7:22 parallels Rev20:4a (NOT those in 20:4b who were BEHEADED / KILLED in the SECOND HALF)... The ones in 20:4a / Dan7:22 are made up (at least IN PART) of those "saints" who will SURVIVE [as "STILL-LIVING" saints] TO THE END of the Trib;


--Lk21:36's INSTRUCTION is aimed at those who will exist in the trib years (it is NOT a "rapture" passage)... "to [ACTIVELY] FLEE OUT-OF each and every thing coming on the earth [i.e. DURING the trib yrs] and to STAND BEFORE the Son of man" (His EARTHLY [MK] designation)--involves at least SOME of these folks ["saints"] surving to the END of the Trib yrs;


--Matt25:31-34 (and context) is both the "SHEEP [/ "ye RIGHTEOUS" / "the RIGHTEOUS"]" and the "goats [/"ye WICKED"] who will be "STILL-LIVING persons" existing on the earth FOLLOWING the Trib yrs / at its END (upon His "RETURN" to the earth, who will then be "separated" in that judgment; SAME as the CONTEXT of Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (a passage UPON WHICH their Q of Him was BASED, in Matthew 24:3 and His RESPONSE follows in these TWO CHPTS [24-25]); IOW, NO ONE is shown being "RESURRECTED" in these two passages (Matt25:31-34 and context; and Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50... these are "STILL-LIVING" persons, at that time);


--about 7 OTHER "BLESSED" passages that speak to this point in time, in the chronology (many persons of whom will be "STILL-LIVING" [saints, having come to faith in Christ DURING the Trib yrs (FOLLOWING "our Rapture")], and who will ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES capable of reproducing / bearing children (the ONLY ppl who will have the capacity to do so); None of these passages create a picture of any UNSAVED persons ENTERING the MK age [/ being permitted ENTRANCE into it] (as some suppose will take place);


--"AS the days of Noah were" (when it refers to those who will be "LEFT") is talking about those "saints" who will be protected THROUGH the Trib years, and"LEFT" to ENTER the MK age IN MORTAL BODIES capable of reproducing / bearing children (compare "[actively] FILL [/FILLED] the [whole] earth" of both Dan2:35c and Gen9:1, as related to this Matt:42-51 passage [and Lk17, likewise]);


--more (much more)... but since I've not yet witnessed your attempts or ability to READ paying attention to detail and intent, I think these few mentions will have to suffice (and at least hopefully help the readers OUT THERE to see what Scripture itself has to say on this particular point)






Bottom line: it seems to me that you are ill-informed about the matter of ppl (esp "saints" / "the righteous") surviving throughout the Trib yrs, to ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies...
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Then it should be easy to find that Teaching for the past 1800's years BEFORE Darby.

And guess what, YOU CANNOT FIND THAT TEACHING ANYWHERE!

This is a new Doctrine less than 200 years and was Addressed by a Church Father who said the Pre-Trib Idealism is False, and that ELECT'S LAST VICTORY WILL BE SURVIVING TRIBULATION!
My post went over your head.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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@Heaven_Bound , not 100% of the "saints" existing in the TIB yrs will be BEHEADED [/martyred]:


--Daniel 12:12 states, "BLESSED is he that WAITETH and COMETH TO the 1335 days"


--Dan7:22 parallels Rev20:4a (NOT those in 20:4b who were BEHEADED / KILLED in the SECOND HALF)... The ones in 20:4a / Dan7:22 are made up (at least IN PART) of those "saints" who will SURVIVE [as "STILL-LIVING" saints] TO THE END of the Trib;


--Lk21:36's INSTRUCTION is aimed at those who will exist in the trib years (it is NOT a "rapture" passage)... "to [ACTIVELY] FLEE OUT-OF each and every thing coming on the earth [i.e. DURING the trib yrs] and to STAND BEFORE the Son of man" (His EARTHLY [MK] designation)--involves at least SOME of these folks ["saints"] surving to the END of the Trib yrs;


--Matt25:31-34 (and context) is both the "SHEEP [/ "ye RIGHTEOUS" / "the RIGHTEOUS"]" and the "goats [/"ye WICKED"] who will be "STILL-LIVING persons" existing on the earth FOLLOWING the Trib yrs / at its END (upon His "RETURN" to the earth, who will then be "separated" in that judgment; SAME as the CONTEXT of Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (a passage UPON WHICH their Q of Him was BASED, in Matthew 24:3 and His RESPONSE follows in these TWO CHPTS [24-25]); IOW, NO ONE is shown being "RESURRECTED" in these two passages (Matt25:31-34 and context; and Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50... these are "STILL-LIVING" persons, at that time);


--about 7 OTHER "BLESSED" passages that speak to this point in time, in the chronology (many persons of whom will be "STILL-LIVING" [saints, having come to faith in Christ DURING the Trib yrs (FOLLOWING "our Rapture")], and who will ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES capable of reproducing / bearing children (the ONLY ppl who will have the capacity to do so); None of these passages create a picture of any UNSAVED persons ENTERING the MK age [/ being permitted ENTRANCE into it] (as some suppose will take place);


--"AS the days of Noah were" (when it refers to those who will be "LEFT") is talking about those "saints" who will be protected THROUGH the Trib years, and"LEFT" to ENTER the MK age IN MORTAL BODIES capable of reproducing / bearing children (compare "[actively] FILL [/FILLED] the [whole] earth" of both Dan2:35c and Gen9:1, as related to this Matt:42-51 passage [and Lk17, likewise]);


--more (much more)... but since I've not yet witnessed your attempts or ability to READ paying attention to detail and intent, I think these few mentions will have to suffice (and at least hopefully help the readers OUT THERE to see what Scripture itself has to say on this particular point)






Bottom line: it seems to me that you are ill-informed about the matter of ppl (esp "saints" / "the righteous") surviving throughout the Trib yrs, to ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies...
Apparently, PLEASE DISREGARD this post ^ (my Post #907), if it ALSO *missed* the point I thought I was reading in "H_B's" post #905 ( @Heaven_Bound )









P.S. it was this sentence of his that perplexed me:

Getting Beheaded is not equal to “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
I wasn't aware anyone had suggested such a thing... NVM.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Revelation 7:
13 Then one of the elders spoke up and said to me, “Who are these wearing white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you are the one who knows.” He said to me, “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “For this reason they stand before God’s throne
and worship him day and night in his temple.
The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
16 They will not hunger or thirst anymore,
nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
17 For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will shepherd them
and lead them to springs of life-giving water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Key portion of this Passage is found in Verse 14:
“These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
You changed it to " survived" lol

Unbelievable.

Yet another pretrib rapture talking point.
Thanks
 
Jul 23, 2018
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When Tribulation ENDS, the Son of Man returns = Words of Christ, Matthew 24

All we need because it is the very Word of God!
Both sides believe that.

Not the rapture.
Jesus used lot and noah.
Neither was delivered post judgemant....or mid trib.

Pure conjecture in the postrib rapture doctrine.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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What a hard job to try and reframe noah an lot.

Whew
That would be tragic.
A babe in christ with a bible can debunk the postrib rapture.

Mainly by rooting out their "verses"
They got what, 2 ????

And those 2 are force fit reframes.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Revelation 7:
13 Then one of the elders spoke up and said to me, “Who are these wearing white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you are the one who knows.” He said to me, “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “For this reason they stand before God’s throne
and worship him day and night in his temple.
The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
16 They will not hunger or thirst anymore,
nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
17 For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will shepherd them
and lead them to springs of life-giving water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Key portion of this Passage is found in Verse 14:
“These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
OK. Not kings and priests, no crowns, no thrones. So we can agree that these are definitely NOT identified as the Church who has been raptured. Correct?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,561
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Revelation 7:
13 Then one of the elders spoke up and said to me, “Who are these wearing white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you are the one who knows.” He said to me, “These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “For this reason they stand before God’s throne
and worship him day and night in his temple.
The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
16 They will not hunger or thirst anymore,
nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
17 For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will shepherd them
and lead them to springs of life-giving water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Key portion of this Passage is found in Verse 14:
“These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress;
New American Bible (Revised Edition)?
Not often quoted that's for sure.....
 
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They are in heaven DURING the great tribulation.
Martyred by the ac
It does not claim that anywhere, You have to literally manipulate Scripture to conclude that.

Manipulating Scripture does not = Truth, it equals your truth!
 
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New American Bible (Revised Edition)?
Not often quoted that's for sure.....
Considering the Translators of the KJV Bible admitted they were not familiar with Koine Greek, but Classical, they literally Hellenized the KJV New Testament. So, it pays to search the closest thing to Koine Greek Translation and I did.
 
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