The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

cv5 · Jan 30, 2022

Here is GOD ADDRESSING THOSE WHO TEACH THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY DOCTRINE

Ezekiel 13:2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;

3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith and the LORD hath not sent them and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

9 And Mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

10 Because, even because THEY HAVE SEDUCED MY PEOPLE SAYING PEACE and there was no peace and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

WHOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE SEDUCED? WHO IS GOING TO HEAR 'PEACE AND SAFETY?'

11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.

TO ALL THOSE PREACHING THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY DOCTRINE I SAY
IT SHALL FALL, THERE SHALL BE AN OVERFLOWING SHOWER AND YE, O GREAT HAILSTONES SHALL FALL AND A STORMY WIND SHALL REND IT

12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?

IT ISN'T like we don't keep asking for you to lay it all out in plain GODS WORDS, which WILL have to be done at some point.

13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in My fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in Mine anger, and great hailstones in My fury to consume it.

THAT IS WHAT GODS WRATH LOOKS LIKE

14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

WHAT IS THE FOUNDATION OF PRE TRIB? IT HAS NONE. IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING GOD HAS WRITTEN.

15 Thus will I accomplish My wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;

16 To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.

17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,

18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

GET IT STRAIGHT. WILL YOU SAVE? NO, BUT YOU CAN "SAY" YOU WILL SAVE BY TEACHING PRE TRIB APOSTASY.

19 And will ye pollute Me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

AGAIN, WHAT DOES PRE TRIB APOSTASY TEACH? BELIEVE THIS AND YOU ARE SAVED FROM TRIBULATION, DEATH. ARE THERE ANY OTHER DOCTRINES THAT TEACH WHAT PRE TRIB APOSTASY TEACHES?

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

THERE WILL BE NO FLYING OFF TO HEAVEN.

21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

If God is delivering people out of YOUR hand that makes you one of THEM. Never mind, that is just conjecture

22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

PROMISING HIM LIFE WITH THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY DOCTRINE. AGAIN, IS THERE ANOTHER DOCTRINE ABOUT PROMISING LIFE BY 'FLYING' AWAY ? IF SO I HAVE NEVER HEARD IT

23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver My people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

WARNED

17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

My hands are clean

"Angels and ministers of grace defend us!"
Hamlet act 1 scene 4

From the heresy of replacement theology.....

cv5 · Jan 30, 2022

kleronomos said:

"Man, proud man, drest in a little brief authority, most ignorant of what he's most assur d, glassy essence, like an angry ape, plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven, as make the angels weep."

Measure for Measure act 2, sc. 2

cv5 · Jan 30, 2022

kleronomos said:

"Ignorance is the curse of God; knowledge is the wing wherewith we fly to heaven."

kleronomos · Jan 30, 2022

It is written endure to the end
APOSTASY TEACHES - NOT TO THE END END BUT TO THE BEGINNING OF THE END

It is written we will have tribulation
APOSTASY TEACHES - ONLY SOME KINDS AND FOR ONLY SO LONG

It is written if the dead don't rise then Christ isn't risen
APOSTASY TEACHES - DEAD DON'T RISE UNTIL LATER

It is written our gathering to the Lord is after the workings of Satan
APOSTASY TEACHES - WE WILL BE GATHERED BEFORE THE WORKINGS OF SATAN

It is written to every seed a body
APOSTASY TEACHES - ONLY SPIRITS WITHOUT BODIES GO TO HEAVEN

It is written we will hear peace and safety
APOSTASY TEACHES - WE WILL NOT BE HERE TO HEAR PEACE AND SAFETY, THAT WILL BE FOR THOSE WHO COME AFTER

It is written salvation was opened to the gentiles to be grafted in and become joint heirs
APOSTASY TEACHES - THE CHURCH IS NOT GRAFTED IN BUT MADE A SEPARATE ENTITY WITH A DIFFERENT END

It is written ye shall see the abomination
APOSTASY TEACHES - THAT 'YE' IS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T COME TO FAITH UNTIL AFTER THE APOSTASY

It is written they deliver you up to be afflicted
APOSTASY TEACHES - THAT IS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T COME TO FAITH UNTIL AFTER THE APOSTASY

It is written he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
APOSTASY TEACHES - THAT IS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T COME TO FAITH UNTIL AFTER THE APOSTASY

It is written pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
APOSTASY TEACHES - THAT IS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T COME TO FAITH UNTIL AFTER THE APOSTASY

It is written if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
APOSTASY TEACHES - BELIEVE IT IS CHRIST COMING NEXT

It is written if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:
APOSTASY TEACHES - HE COMES TO THE AIR DO GO FORTH

It is written if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
APOSTASY TEACHES - THE CHURCH IS MADE UP OF DIVISIONS ONLY THE ELECT STAY

It is written behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
APOSTASY TEACHES - UP IN THE SKY FLYING YOU OFF TO SAFETY TO HEAVEN BEFORE TRIBULATION BELIEVE IT

It is written Immediately after the tribulation of THOSE days then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven
APOSTASY TEACHES - IMMEDIATELY BEFORE

It is written So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
APOSTASY TEACHES - THAT IS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T COME TO FAITH UNTIL AFTER THE APOSTASY, NOT 'YE' AT ALL

It is written one body, one for all and all for one
APOSTASY TEACHES - SOME BODY PARTS HERE SOME BODY PARTS THERE

It is written if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
APOSTASY TEACHES - NO, JUST THE SPIRITS GO AND COME BACK AND THEN THE BODY WILL BE RESURRECTED

It is written God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
APOSTASY TEACHES - NO WRATH AND SALVATION BY APOSTASY

kleronomos · Jan 30, 2022

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

The fallen angels were here on earth up until the flood. Satan and his angels are coming here and will be here up until the return of Christ.

The flood of water came upon the wicked, GODS WRATH
Fire is coming upon the wicked when Christ returns GODS WRATH

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Satan and his angels will be here on earth and NO ONE WILL KNOW CHRIST IS ON HIS WAY JUST LIKE THEY DIDN'T KNOW THE FLOOD WAS ON IT'S WAY

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

THE FALLING AWAY - BEFORE THE FLOOD THE ANGELS TOOK OF THE DAUGTERS OF MEN AS THEY WILL BEFORE THE RETURN OF CHRIST

Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

SATANS COMING IS THE START OF THE CLOCK

SO KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR SATAN AND THE ANGELS BECAUSE THEY START THE COUNTDOWN TO THE RETURN OF THE LORD. UNTIL YOU SEE THEM YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN CHRIST WILL BE COMING. BUT ONCE YOU DO, THEN THAT HOUR WILL BE EASY TO FIGURE OUT. KNOWING THIS CHRISTS RETURN WILL NOT BE LIKE A THIEF IN THE NIGHT

Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

IF YOU HAD NEVER READ THIS THEN YOU WOULD BE TAKEN IN BY SATANS LYING SIGNS AND WONDERS. SATAN WOULD BREAK INTO YOUR LIFE AND WOULD STEAL YOUR ETERNAL SOUL BY HAVING YOU WORSHIP THE IMAGE.

BUT AS THE GOOD MAN YOU KNOW SATAN IS COMING FIRST AND SO YOU WILL NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE DECEIVED BY ANYONE OR ANY THING AND YOU WILL PATIENTLY AWAIT THE COMING OF THE LORD BY ENDURING TO THE END.

IF YOU ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE DECEIVED THEN
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

1Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

kleronomos · Jan 30, 2022

cv5 said:

Words of God or words of man? We put forth that that we know.

cv5 · Jan 30, 2022

kleronomos said:

You have little of value to offer one way or the other.....

kleronomos · Jan 30, 2022

cv5 said:

1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Omegatime · Jan 30, 2022

Just to clarify--I am not a post- tribber. In fact I believe all of you are all wrong, but that is my opinion.

Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.

It is clear that during the time to take the mark some do not and the righteous are still be killed during the time of the antichrist so they are still part of church per say. I personally see the rapture occuring before the bowl judgements at final reaping.

Rev. 14:14 Then I looked, and lo, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat upon the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

cv5 · Jan 30, 2022

Omegatime said:

"they are still part of church per say"

Correction: they (the tribulation saints of whom you speak) ARE indeed part of the elect, part of the redeemed, part of the first resurrection. However they are NOT part of the Church per se. Neither was John the Baptist or any of the Old Testament saints for that matter. Neither are those born in the millennium who come to faith in Christ during that time.

You could say that the Church is the first subset of the greater set....

Furthermore the Church is a PART of the first resurrection......a very unique part. The Church is the firstfruits of the first resurrection. The Church is "unioned" with Jesus Christ their Husband in a unique intimate relationship that no one else enjoys.

Hope that helps and God bless your Lord's day.

kleronomos · Jan 30, 2022

Omegatime said:

Would you say that was around this time?

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Revelation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Omegatime · Jan 30, 2022

kleronomos said:

Would you say that was around this time?

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Revelation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Absolutely-both events events happen during the seventh trumpet--resurrection of the dead at Rev 11;15, and the living at Rev 14;14. Dead are raised first then the living

FreeGrace2 · Jan 30, 2022

cv5 said:

Who are you to make such a judgment? How is your "value" any more or less than any other person?

cv5 · Jan 30, 2022

Omegatime said:

There is absolutely zero indication of the resurrection of the dead....any dead.....in Rev 11:15. Furthermore the 24 Elders (The Church already risen, seen way back in chapter 4) are ALREADY SITTING ON THRONES worshiping in Rev 11:16. The Church is long gone.

Furthermore there are still Saints being persecuted on the earth in Rev 13:7, 13:10 & 14:12.

One could easily write volumes of books on what's going on here.....and how everybody is so so wrong. Quite frankly there isn't time or space. It boils down to the fact that you got to do your own research on your own homework.

You people need to up your game. That is some seriously embarrassing misapprehensions you've got going here....

. For pity's sake I hope you're not guilty of teaching these errors.....

cv5 · Jan 30, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

What is of no value whatsoever (and is in fact an extremely damaging heresy) is the preaching and teaching and promoting of replacement theology.

A completely unacceptable false doctrine and needs to be flagged as such.

Nehemiah6 · Jan 30, 2022

kleronomos said:

The Bible is not a theological textbook, so God will not tell you things which you should be able to perceive and discern by the help of the Holy Spirit.

1. That issue has already been addressed in Scripture. But you have failed to see that the divine Restrainer -- the Holy Spirit -- will be "taken out of the way" so that the Antichrist may take full control of the world (2 Thessalonians 2). Where else would He go except back to Heaven, from where He was sent to earth on the day of Pentecost, AD 30?

2. And since the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in the Body of Christ) are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and also baptized into that Body by the Spirit) when the Holy Spirit returns to Heaven, so do the saints of God. And that is why "the Church" is not mentioned once while the 6th and 7th seal judgments are poured out as the wrath of God upon the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked (Rev 6-18).

3. It should also be noted that God will send "strong delusion" upon all the inhabitants of the world (during the reign of the Antichrist) so that "they might be damned". But since Christians are not subject to damnation, it follows that they cannot be placed under that strong delusion, which means they must be in Heaven.

4. Lastly the Marriage of the Lamb requires that the Bride of Christ (the Church) be present in Heaven so that she may become "the Lamb's Wife". This is just prior to the Second Coming of Christ to earth with all His saints and angels (referred to as "clouds"). So while God pours our His wrath upon the earth, He blesses His saints in Heaven. Then they come with Christ to witness how He deals with the enemies of God, Christ and Israel.

cv5 · Jan 30, 2022

cv5 said:

There is absolutely zero indication of the resurrection of the dead....any dead.....in Rev 11:15. Furthermore the 24 Elders (The Church already risen, seen way back in chapter 4) are ALREADY SITTING ON THRONES worshiping in Rev 11:16. The Church is long gone.

Furthermore there are still Saints being persecuted on the earth in Rev 13:7, 13:10 & 14:12.

One could easily write volumes of books on what's going on here.....and how everybody is so so wrong. Quite frankly there isn't time or space. It boils down to the fact that you got to do your own research on your own homework.

You people need to up your game. That is some seriously embarrassing misapprehensions you've got going here....

. For pity's sake I hope you're not guilty of teaching these errors.....

Another point that needs to be made:

The Elders (the ALREADY glorified Church) are seen worshiping in heaven in Rev 14:3. A verse before your supposed resurrection of the living in verse 14.

cv5 · Jan 30, 2022

Omegatime said:

Something else you might want to consider and study up on:

There's a very strong case to be made that Rev chapters 10 through 14 are for the most part "summary chapters". See Rev 10:11....

Jackson123 · Jan 30, 2022

cv5 said:

Rev 13
7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe,

Is this verse look like God wrath?

kleronomos · Jan 30, 2022

cv5 said:

How dare we teach what is written. Show me one verse where what is written is not what I believe

The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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