The problem of sin

[throughfaith]

How come you are still clueless after having all this discussed in detail many times?

The New Covenant went into effect on the 14th of Nisan, 30 AD, and has been in effect continuously since then. Of course, in the future, redeemed and restored Israel on earth will also be under the New Covenant.

Hebrews 8.10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Geniune question . Is this for Israel or everyone?

 

[throughfaith]

Hello brother, that may be true, but my question still remains, "WHY is it true?" .. if the consequences of the two choices we are given are understood and carefully weighed/considered by all, that is As I said a post or two back,

If the very same free will choice is given to all w/o exception (lets say the choice is between a milk shake and a glass of cyanide-laden Kool-Aid, or between eternal joy and happiness in Heaven and eternal darkness, pain, suffering and torment in the Lake of Fire), why oh why would ANY reasonable, rational, fully-informed person EVER make the latter of those two choices (again, assuming that he/she is cognizant of what they are in for when they make that latter choice) ​

Thanks!

~Deut
p.s. - I think that this is particularly disturbing when we consider that it is the MAJORITY (of reasonable, rational, intelligent, fully-informed people) among us who freely choose the Kool-Aid/the Lake of Fire

Matthew 7​

13 Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.​

14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.​

​

I think Romans 1 explains . From verse 18 .
18¶For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24¶Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25who changed the truth of God into a lie , and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[throughfaith]

No, the Lord Jesus fulfilled the Law on our behalf, both on the Cross, and by the life that He lived in perfect obedience before His Father (when He lived among us), the perfect, sinless life that we were supposed to live before Him .. cf Romans 5:10.


Yes, as there is no other basis for our being declared righteous and just by God .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 5:21.

~Deut

Romans 5​

8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.​

10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.​

​

2 Corinthians 5​

21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.​

​

Does 2 cor 5 .21 say we actually recieved his righteousness exactly?
In light of Rom 4 ?
3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5¶But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Just trying to get some higher resolution on this .

 

[Deuteronomy]

My reference is to all mankind, unhappily some will choose evil over good, darkness over the Light of Jesus-Yeshua. I am a bit taken aback that anyone would take my post as you have.

Hello again brother, actually (according to the Bible) it appears that MOST will choose evil over good, which I believe makes my "Why?" question even more pertinent. Why is the MAJORITY of reasonable, rational, fully-informed people among us choosing eternal damnation, torment and suffering in the Lake of Fire over eternal joy and happiness in Heaven (in fact, why would even one of us choose eternity in the Lake of Fire if all we have to do is choose to be in Heaven instead?)

Likewise, what is it about us FEW Why did we make the right, reasonable, rational choice of the narrow gate instead Did God make us differently than He made the majority somehow? Are we better than they are? From my experience, it doesn't seem so!

Finally, I apologize for any misunderstanding about my last post, but I think that you may not be understanding exactly where I was coming from in that post. I wasn't speaking against what you wrote, just wondering how it could possibly be so (that so many will make such a HORRIBLE & FOREVER choice in the end) since we know that they are free to do otherwise.

~Deut

 

[throughfaith]

Hello throughfaith, just for clarity's sake, by "we", you mean those (and those alone) who have come to saving faith in Christ, yes

Also, by "today", you mean that His atoning work on the Cross is the sole basis for God's merciful and gracious choice to forgive...

1. our past sins on the day that He justifies/saves us and​

2. our present day and future sins, once we seek His forgiveness for and cleansing of them ​

​

...yes ​

~Deut​

​

1 John 1​

8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.​

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.​

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.​

​

1 John 2​

1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.​

​

Would you say that all our sins were yet future , some present, and some future for all people. Meaning 2000 years ago I didn't exist ,but he still died for my sins .

 

[throughfaith]

Hello again brother, actually (according to the Bible) it appears that MOST will choose evil over good, which I believe makes my "Why?" question even more pertinent. Why is the MAJORITY of reasonable, rational, fully-informed people among us choosing eternal damnation, torment and suffering in the Lake of Fire over eternal joy and happiness in Heaven (in fact, why would even one of us choose eternity in the Lake of Fire if all we have to do is choose to be in Heaven instead?)

Likewise, what is it about us FEW Why did we make the right, reasonable, rational choice of the narrow gate instead Did God make us differently than He made the majority somehow? Are we better than they are? From my experience, it doesn't seem so!

Finally, I apologize for any misunderstanding about my last post, but I think that you may not be understanding exactly where I was coming from in that post. I wasn't speaking against what you wrote, just wondering how it could possibly be so (that so many will make such a HORRIBLE & FOREVER choice in the end) since we know that they are free to do otherwise.

~Deut

That's the amazing thing about free

Hello again brother, actually (according to the Bible) it appears that MOST will choose evil over good, which I believe makes my "Why?" question even more pertinent. Why is the MAJORITY of reasonable, rational, fully-informed people among us choosing eternal damnation, torment and suffering in the Lake of Fire over eternal joy and happiness in Heaven (in fact, why would even one of us choose eternity in the Lake of Fire if all we have to do is choose to be in Heaven instead?)

Likewise, what is it about us FEW Why did we make the right, reasonable, rational choice of the narrow gate instead Did God make us differently than He made the majority somehow? Are we better than they are? From my experience, it doesn't seem so!

Finally, I apologize for any misunderstanding about my last post, but I think that you may not be understanding exactly where I was coming from in that post. I wasn't speaking against what you wrote, just wondering how it could possibly be so (that so many will make such a HORRIBLE & FOREVER choice in the end) since we know that they are free to do otherwise.

~Deut

Even as believers . Were like white sheep until it snows then against the pure white snow we look pretty grubby .

 

[Guojing]

How come you are still clueless after having all this discussed in detail many times?

The New Covenant went into effect on the 14th of Nisan, 30 AD, and has been in effect continuously since then. Of course, in the future, redeemed and restored Israel on earth will also be under the New Covenant.

This is a discussion so just share what you believe in without making personal remarks.

If you are indeed referring to the New Covenant mentioned in Hebrews 8:8 onwards

I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor
and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
for they shall all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.

Are these in effect now? If they are, please explain why.

 

[throughfaith]

This is a discussion so just share what you believe in without making personal remarks.

If you are indeed referring to the New Covenant mentioned in Hebrews 8:8 onwards

I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor
and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
for they shall all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.

Are these in effect now? If they are, please explain why.

This is an interesting verse . It clearly says ' Israel ' . Would we tie this in with Ezekiel 36 ? And why do we see this verse used towards the church age ?

 

[AlmondJoy]

The PENALTY for ALL sins was paid at the cross in full. But the efficacy of that atonement applies only to those who obey the Gospel.
No. He fulfilled the Law and established the New Covenant..

Yes.
Yes
That is your next homework assignment.

Could you tell me how you was able to break up this post and comment under different portions of it.....im new here and would love to know how to do that...thanks and God bless

 

[throughfaith]

Hello again @throughfaith, perhaps some of this is worth discussing at this point in your thread, since you and others have broached the subject of the Law of God in the life of believers. Actually, this takes a look at several purposes for the Law, in the life of both believers and unbelievers. What do you think (trying your best to set aside for the moment the fact that it was written by a Calvinist ).

I realize, knowing what you have told us you believe in the past here, that you are not going to agree with all of Dr. Sproul's commentary following the law's third purpose. Still, I do believe that you will agree with him about some of it, yes

​

THE THREEFOLD USE OF THE LAW​

​

Every Christian wrestles with the question, how does the Old Testament law relate to my life? Is the Old Testament law irrelevant to Christians or is there some sense in which we are still bound by portions of it? As the heresy of antinomianism becomes ever more pervasive in our culture, the need to answer these questions grows increasingly urgent.​

​

The Reformation was founded on grace and not upon law. Yet the law of God was not repudiated by the Reformers. John Calvin, for example, wrote what has become known as the “Threefold Use of the Law” in order to show the importance of the law for the Christian life.​

​

The first purpose of the law is to be a mirror. On the one hand, the law of God reflects and mirrors the perfect righteousness of God. The law tells us much about who God is. Perhaps more important, the law illumines human sinfulness. Augustine wrote, “The law orders, that we, after attempting to do what is ordered, and so feeling our weakness under the law, may learn to implore the help of grace.”2 The law highlights our weakness so that we might seek the strength found in Christ. Here the law acts as a severe schoolmaster who drives us to Christ (Galatians 3:24-25).​

​

A second purpose for the law is the restraint of evil. The law, in and of itself, cannot change human hearts. It can, however, serve to protect the righteous from the unjust. Calvin says this purpose is “by means of its fearful denunciations and the consequent dread of punishment, to curb those who, unless forced, have no regard for rectitude and justice.”3 The law allows for a limited measure of justice on this earth, until the last judgment is realized.​

​

The third purpose of the law is to reveal what is pleasing to God. As born-again children of God, the law enlightens us as to what is pleasing to our Father, whom we seek to serve. The Christian delights in the law as God Himself delights in it. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). This is the highest function of the law, to serve as an instrument for the people of God to give Him honor and glory.​

​

By studying or meditating on the law of God, we attend the school of righteousness. We learn what pleases God and what offends Him. The moral law that God reveals in Scripture is always binding upon us. Our redemption is from the curse of God’s law, not from our duty to obey it. We are justified, not because of our obedience to the law, but in order that we may become obedient to God’s law. To love Christ is to keep His commandments. To love God is to obey His law.​

​

Summary​

1. The church today has been invaded by antinomianism, which weakens, rejects, or distorts the law of God.​

2. The law of God is a mirror of God’s holiness and our unrighteousness. It serves to reveal to us our need of a savior.​

3. The law of God is a restraint against sin.​

4. The law of God reveals what is pleasing and what is offensive to God.​

5. The Christian is to love the law of God and to obey the moral law of God.​

​

Biblical passages for reflection:​

Psalm 19:7-11​

Psalm 119:9-16​

Romans 7:7-25​

Romans 8:3-4​

1 Corinthians 7:19​

Galatians 3:24​

​

~Excerpt from Essential Truths Of The Christian Faith by R. C. Sproul © (Tyndale 1992)​

~Deut

A few verses to consider also .
Rom 5.20
Moreover the LAW ENTERED , that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Gal 3
23But BEFORE faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25BUT AFTER that faith is come, we are NO LONGER under a schoolmaster.

2 Corinthians 3:6

“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter KILLETH, but the spirit giveth life.”

2 cor 3.7

But if the MINISTRATION OF DEATH , written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be DONE AWAY :

I don't see the law as the motivation or the inspiration for the believer . Also we have too many unbelievers thinking that law keeping is how to please God. Antinominism ? No Grace leads to Godliness .

 

[Nehemiah6]

Could you tell me how you was able to break up this post and comment under different portions of it.....im new here and would love to know how to do that...thanks and God bless

For each section that you wish to separate, type "QUOTE" in square brackets before the first word and type "/QUOTE" in square brackets after the last word. Then it will appear as a separate quotation. Do you notice the difference? There is a "backslash" (/) before QUOTE at the end.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Are these in effect now? If they are, please explain why.

1. The New Covenant had to be ratified with blood, just like the Old Covenant. The shed blood of Christ ratified the New Covenant on the day that He died. In anticipation of that, Christ said this at the Last Supper: And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying,Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the New Testament [Covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (Mt 26:27,28)

2. Because the Old Covenant came to an end on the 14th of Nisan, 30 AD, the veil in the temple was supernaturally torn from top to bottom. That was proof that the Old Covenant did not apply any longer: Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; (Mt 27:50,51).

3. In spite of this, the priests and Levites were not afraid to keep up the temple sacrifices for the next 40 years. However, Paul made it clear that they were not valid: We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. (Heb 13:10-13)

4. Paul also made it crystal clear that he and all the apostles were ministers of the New Covenant (Testament): Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament [Covenant]; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life... For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. (2 Cor 3:5,6,11)

The Greek word diatheke can be translated as either "testament" or "covenant".

Strong's Concordance
diathéké: testament, will, covenant
Original Word: διαθήκη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: diathéké
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ath-ay'-kay)
Definition: testament, will, covenant
Usage: (a) a covenant between two parties, (b) (the ordinary, everyday sense [found a countless number of times in papyri]) a will, testament.

The modern bible versions use the word "covenant".

 

[Nehemiah6]

Hebrews 8.10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Geniune question . Is this for Israel or everyone?

The New Covenant was made with Israel, but is for everyone through the Abrahamic Covenant. Believing Israel (the Church) is "the good olive tree" into which the Gentiles are grafted in as branches from "the wild olive tree". The outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost confirmed that the New Covenant had come into effect. But it was also applicable to Gentiles (see Acts 10).

GALATIANS 3: GENTILES WOULD ALSO RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the Gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham...
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[throughfaith]

The New Covenant was made with Israel, but is for everyone through the Abrahamic Covenant. Believing Israel (the Church) is "the good olive tree" into which the Gentiles are grafted in as branches from "the wild olive tree". The outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost confirmed that the New Covenant had come into effect. But it was also applicable to Gentiles (see Acts 10).

GALATIANS 3: GENTILES WOULD ALSO RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the Gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham...
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Of course, no one can deny that the gentiles are grafted in . Its just that it says the covenant is with Israel in those verses?

 

[AlmondJoy]

For each section that you wish to separate, type "QUOTE" in square brackets before the first word

Testing

and type "/QUOTE" in square brackets after the last word. Then it will appear as a separate quotation.

Do you notice the difference? There is a "backslash" (/) before QUOTE at the end.

Thanks for the help

 

[throughfaith]

The New Covenant was made with Israel, but is for everyone through the Abrahamic Covenant. Believing Israel (the Church) is "the good olive tree" into which the Gentiles are grafted in as branches from "the wild olive tree". The outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost confirmed that the New Covenant had come into effect. But it was also applicable to Gentiles (see Acts 10).

GALATIANS 3: GENTILES WOULD ALSO RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the Gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham...
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

yes we received the Holy Spirit in Acts . But the law was not put in our minds ect .

 

[throughfaith]

The New Covenant was made with Israel, but is for everyone through the Abrahamic Covenant. Believing Israel (the Church) is "the good olive tree" into which the Gentiles are grafted in as branches from "the wild olive tree". The outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost confirmed that the New Covenant had come into effect. But it was also applicable to Gentiles (see Acts 10).

GALATIANS 3: GENTILES WOULD ALSO RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the Gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham...
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So are we saying these are all pointing to the Church?
Jer 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 32:40
And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
Eze 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Eze 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes all sins have been bought by the Blood of our Savior, but not all seek to please Him nor to accept that free gift.

Christ's sacrifice was to pay for all of the sins of all of the people that God gave him. His sacrifice was not offered, to those that he died for, for their acceptance, but was offered to God for God's acceptance, in which he accepted. Christ paid for their sins, in a covenant relationship with God, and God looks upon them as holy, and without blame, as far as their eternal inheritance is concerned.

There is an acceptance that God requires his regenerate children to make in order to be delivered, while they sojourn here in this world, from things of this world, that has nothing to do with their eternal deliverance.

 

[Guojing]

1. The New Covenant had to be ratified with blood, just like the Old Covenant. The shed blood of Christ ratified the New Covenant on the day that He died. In anticipation of that, Christ said this at the Last Supper: And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying,Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the New Testament [Covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (Mt 26:27,28)

2. Because the Old Covenant came to an end on the 14th of Nisan, 30 AD, the veil in the temple was supernaturally torn from top to bottom. That was proof that the Old Covenant did not apply any longer: Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; (Mt 27:50,51).

3. In spite of this, the priests and Levites were not afraid to keep up the temple sacrifices for the next 40 years. However, Paul made it clear that they were not valid: We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. (Heb 13:10-13)

4. Paul also made it crystal clear that he and all the apostles were ministers of the New Covenant (Testament): Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament [Covenant]; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life... For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. (2 Cor 3:5,6,11)

The Greek word diatheke can be translated as either "testament" or "covenant".

Strong's Concordance
diathéké: testament, will, covenant
Original Word: διαθήκη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: diathéké
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ath-ay'-kay)
Definition: testament, will, covenant
Usage: (a) a covenant between two parties, (b) (the ordinary, everyday sense [found a countless number of times in papyri]) a will, testament.

The modern bible versions use the word "covenant".

So the new covenant in your mind has nothing to do with the passage starting from Hebrews 8:8?

 

[JaumeJ]

Christ's sacrifice was to pay for all of the sins of all of the people that God gave him. His sacrifice was not offered, to those that he died for, for their acceptance, but was offered to God for God's acceptance, in which he accepted. Christ paid for their sins, in a covenant relationship with God, and God looks upon them as holy, and without blame, as far as their eternal inheritance is concerned.

There is an acceptance that God requires his regenerate children to make in order to be delivered, while they sojourn here in this world, from things of this world, that has nothing to do with their eternal deliverance.

Huh? And you believe I have contradicted shy Messiah died and what He accomplished for all who will in His mission? Not so.