The Woman and the Male Child

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#1
  • And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed in the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. (Rev.12:1)
* Then Joseph had another dream and told it to his brothers. “Look,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and
moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.” He told his father and brothers, but his father rebuked him and said, “What is
this dream that you have had? Will your mother and brothers and I actually come and bow down to the ground before you?”
(Genesis 37:9-10)

==================================================

In Revelation 12, the woman is said to be clothed with the sun, with the moon under feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars. The answer to the symbolic identity of the woman, is found In Genesis 37:9-10 derrived from Joseph’s dream, where his father Jacob identifies those same symbols;

Sun = Jacob

Moon = wife/wives

Eleven stars = eleven of Jacobs son’s, with Joseph being the twelvth star

These symbols then collectively represent the nation of Israel

She was pregnant and crying out in the pain and agony of giving birth

Since the given symbols identfy the woman as representing the nation Israel as a whole, then her being pregnant must also be viewed as figurative. So what is the figurative meaning of giving birth and who is the Male Child representing?

Do not harm the land or sea or trees until we have sealed the foreheads of the servants of our God.” And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel:

And no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes. (Rev.14:3-4)

In Revelation 7:1-8, 144,000 will be sealed with the seal of God, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. Later in Rev.14:3-4, we see this same group of 144,000 in heaven as those who follow Jesus wherever He goes. The verse also states regarding this group that, “these are those who who have not been defiled with woman,” which would make them all male Israelites, ergo, the male child.

The Nation Israel
The Woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars

The Male Child
The 144,000, the first fruits who come out of Israel, recongnizing Jesus as the Messiah

The whole of the symbolism then, is representing the Christ rejecting nation of Israel (the Woman) figuratively giving birth to 144,000 believing Israelites (Male Child) who recognize Jesus as the Messiah

The designation of “Male Child” is therefore a collective name figuratively representing the 144,000 who will come out of (gives birth to) the unbelieving nation of Israel

The woman is not a literal woman, is not literally pregnant, is not giving literal birth and therefore cannot be giving birth to Jesus as a literal male child.


Could Jesus be the Male Child?

We have already seen that the woman and the Male Child are symbolically representing the nation Israel and the 144, 000 Israelites who come out of her, respectively. Therefore, since the woman giving birth is figurative then in keeping with the context, it cannot be referring to the literal birth of Jesus. Jesus does not fit the criteria of the Male Child.

  • And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

  • 726 harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively
The word “harpazo” is the same word used in I Thessalonians 4:16 where at the resurrection, those in Christ still alive will be changed and “caught up” at the resurrection. It is the same word used to describe Paul when he was “caught up” to the third heaven (2 Cor.12:2). And it is the same word used to describe Philip when he was “snatched away” from the Eunuch by the Spirit (Acts 8:39).

Since the same word harpazo is used to describe the Male Child being “caught up” to God and His throne, does this accurately describe what happened to Jesus?

  • And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, ready to devour her child as soon as she gave birth.
The dragon with seven heads and ten horns is another symbolism found in Revelation 12 representing Satan. The inference is that the dragon/Satan is waiting to devour/kill the child as soon as it is born. But before he can do that, the Male Child is “caught up” to God and His throne. In comparison, Jesus was crucified, buried, resurrected and later ascended to God’s right hand. According to the definition of the word, Jesus does not fit the criteria of being the male child, as He was not suddenly snatched up to God and His throne before the dragon could kill Him. He was crucified.

  • And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter
There are four promises those who will rule the nations with an iron scepter:

Jesus - And out of His mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations and He will rule them with an iron scepter.

Believers who overcome - And to the one who overcomes and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like pottery —just as I have received authority from My Father.

The Male Child - And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter

The Great Tribulation Saints - They had not worshiped the beast or his image, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

=======================================

Therefore, the promise of those “who will rule the nations with an iron scepter” should not be pigeonholed as referring to Christ only, which is one of the major reasons that others erroneously interpret the Male Child as referring to Jesus.


The Woman
– The Nation Israel (Christ rejecting)

The Dragon – Satan

The Male Child – The 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel (Christ Believing)

Gives Birth To – A 144,000 believing Israelites who ‘come out of’ unbelieving Israel
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
1,006
113
#2
How/where does this tie in
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,610
13,019
113
#3
Could Jesus be the Male Child?
That is the only logical conclusion. Please note: And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

There is only one person who has the power and the authority to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And that is the Lord Jesus Christ. Also "man child" is singular, and the primary reason for the existence of Israel (or more precisely believing Israel) was to bring forth the Messiah and Savior of the world.

But we are not left to guess either. We see that only Christ is the one who rules with a rod of iron in Revelation 19:
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#4
God is giving the world 7 years to have their way and cause all people who do not love Him to follow the man of sin, and when they take his mark then salvation is no longer available to them, and brings Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

Israel is blinded in part, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, and so all Israel shall be saved.

Salvation is still available to the world for the first three and one half years, and when they take the mark then the fulness of the Gentiles have come in, and God will turn Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Lord and Savior.

Since God is going to turn Israel as a nation to the truth that Jesus is their Lord and Savior then He has to protect Israel from physical attack, and although the great tribulation is the last three and one half years in which all people on Jesus' side is persecuted Israel as a nation will not be physically attacked, only on an individual level.

And they cannot attack Israel during the last half for God sent them 2 witnesses to turn them to the truth, and the 2 witnesses have power to take down their enemies with plagues, and fire if they try to stop them from preaching, and the beast and the world cannot come them until they are done witnessing, then they overcome them and they raise from the dead, and rise to heaven, which the rest of the Jews that did not believe will believe then, and Israel as a nation will be in the truth.

When the New Age Christ establishes peace in the Middle East between Jews and Palestinians it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will cause it, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land to claim to be their God and messiah in the future, but God means it for good towards the Jews.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The nation of Israel, Jacob who had the 12 tribes of Israel.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The rebellion of Lucifer, the 10 horns, physical dominion of the beast, the 7 heads, the last 7 kingdoms that are of the beast for the devil influenced them, and the 8th king the antichrist.

The crowns are on the heads, Satan in the spiritual realm deceiving people.

In chapter 13 the crowns are on the horns, Satan in the physical realm deceiving people.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The man child is Jesus for He is the one that resurrected to heaven, and He shall rule with a rod of iron, and the Bible says all those that come from the great tribulation shall rule with Jesus for 1000 years which is more than the 144,000 Jews, and when Jesus comes to fight the world all the saints are with Him.

The nation of Israel are protected from physical attack for the the first three and one half years.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

This war has not happened yet for Satan is the prince of the power of the air right now, but after the 6th trumpet God said the world will not repent of their sins, and turn to Him, so He gives them the man of sin to rule over them and war breaks out in heaven and the devils are cast to the earth, which the earth becomes the habitation of devils, and Satan appears as the man of sin to deceive the world, and the devils deceive all people that do not love God to follow the beast which is the strong delusion God will give everybody that does not love the truth, but has pleasure in unrighteousness.

When this war happens Satan knows he has a short time which is three and one half years, and then to the bottomless pit, and then to the lake of fire.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The nation of Israel is protected for the last three and one half years, and the man of sin makes war with all people on Jesus' side which includes Gentiles for they are part of the woman, Israel, for they are a Jew inward, and belong to the commonwealth of Israel.

Which it is the great tribulation for it is on a world wide scale.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#5
  • And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed in the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. (Rev.12:1)
* Then Joseph had another dream and told it to his brothers. “Look,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and
moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.” He told his father and brothers, but his father rebuked him and said, “What is
this dream that you have had? Will your mother and brothers and I actually come and bow down to the ground before you?”
(Genesis 37:9-10)

==================================================

In Revelation 12, the woman is said to be clothed with the sun, with the moon under feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars. The answer to the symbolic identity of the woman, is found In Genesis 37:9-10 derrived from Joseph’s dream, where his father Jacob identifies those same symbols;

Sun = Jacob

Moon = wife/wives

Eleven stars = eleven of Jacobs son’s, with Joseph being the twelvth star

These symbols then collectively represent the nation of Israel

She was pregnant and crying out in the pain and agony of giving birth

Since the given symbols identfy the woman as representing the nation Israel as a whole, then her being pregnant must also be viewed as figurative. So what is the figurative meaning of giving birth and who is the Male Child representing?

Do not harm the land or sea or trees until we have sealed the foreheads of the servants of our God.” And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel:

And no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes. (Rev.14:3-4)

In Revelation 7:1-8, 144,000 will be sealed with the seal of God, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. Later in Rev.14:3-4, we see this same group of 144,000 in heaven as those who follow Jesus wherever He goes. The verse also states regarding this group that, “these are those who who have not been defiled with woman,” which would make them all male Israelites, ergo, the male child.

The Nation Israel
The Woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars

The Male Child
The 144,000, the first fruits who come out of Israel, recongnizing Jesus as the Messiah

The whole of the symbolism then, is representing the Christ rejecting nation of Israel (the Woman) figuratively giving birth to 144,000 believing Israelites (Male Child) who recognize Jesus as the Messiah

The designation of “Male Child” is therefore a collective name figuratively representing the 144,000 who will come out of (gives birth to) the unbelieving nation of Israel

The woman is not a literal woman, is not literally pregnant, is not giving literal birth and therefore cannot be giving birth to Jesus as a literal male child.


Could Jesus be the Male Child?

We have already seen that the woman and the Male Child are symbolically representing the nation Israel and the 144, 000 Israelites who come out of her, respectively. Therefore, since the woman giving birth is figurative then in keeping with the context, it cannot be referring to the literal birth of Jesus. Jesus does not fit the criteria of the Male Child.

  • And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

  • 726 harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively
The word “harpazo” is the same word used in I Thessalonians 4:16 where at the resurrection, those in Christ still alive will be changed and “caught up” at the resurrection. It is the same word used to describe Paul when he was “caught up” to the third heaven (2 Cor.12:2). And it is the same word used to describe Philip when he was “snatched away” from the Eunuch by the Spirit (Acts 8:39).

Since the same word harpazo is used to describe the Male Child being “caught up” to God and His throne, does this accurately describe what happened to Jesus?

  • And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, ready to devour her child as soon as she gave birth.
The dragon with seven heads and ten horns is another symbolism found in Revelation 12 representing Satan. The inference is that the dragon/Satan is waiting to devour/kill the child as soon as it is born. But before he can do that, the Male Child is “caught up” to God and His throne. In comparison, Jesus was crucified, buried, resurrected and later ascended to God’s right hand. According to the definition of the word, Jesus does not fit the criteria of being the male child, as He was not suddenly snatched up to God and His throne before the dragon could kill Him. He was crucified.

  • And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter
There are four promises those who will rule the nations with an iron scepter:

Jesus - And out of His mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations and He will rule them with an iron scepter.

Believers who overcome - And to the one who overcomes and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like pottery —just as I have received authority from My Father.

The Male Child - And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter

The Great Tribulation Saints - They had not worshiped the beast or his image, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

=======================================

Therefore, the promise of those “who will rule the nations with an iron scepter” should not be pigeonholed as referring to Christ only, which is one of the major reasons that others erroneously interpret the Male Child as referring to Jesus.


The Woman
– The Nation Israel (Christ rejecting)

The Dragon – Satan

The Male Child – The 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel (Christ Believing)

Gives Birth To – A 144,000 believing Israelites who ‘come out of’ unbelieving Israel
Thank you for sharing Ahwatukee, was a nice read and informative
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#6
Thank you for sharing Ahwatukee, was a nice read and informative
You're most welcome, JamOn. I have desired to put this information out there to reveal the truth of who the Male Child is in opposition to the false knee-jerk reaction of many who interpret Christ as being the Male Child, which as I pointed out does not fit the criteria.

It's is always uplifting to see those who are looking for the truth of God's word.

Thanks again!