Tithing Again

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cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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#81
“THE BLESSINGS OF TITHING

The old adage “you can’t outgive God,” to be sure, is one hundred percent true.

The worst thing that a Christian can do, when finances are tight, and he’s wondering how in the world he’s going to pay all the bills, is to say in his heart, “I cannot afford to give anything to the Lord this month,” etc. That is a big, big mistake.

When the Holy Spirit was to give a dissertation on “giving,” as it regards the Work of God to the Early Church, through Paul he used as an example the poorest Churches of all, those in Macedonia. The following is what Paul said:


“Moreover, Brethren, we do you to witness of the Grace of God bestowed on the Churches of Macedonia (northern Greece);

How that in a great trial of affliction (Macedonia was greatly impoverished due to political and military problems) the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. (Despite their deep poverty, they gave liberally to the Work of God.)

For to their power, I bear record (Paul knew their financial circumstances), yes, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves (they gave beyond what it seemed they could give);

Praying us with much entreaty that we would receive the gift (knowing their impoverished circumstances, Paul didn’t want to take the gift, but they insisted), and take upon us the fellowship of the Ministering to the Saints. (Paul was receiving an Offering from all the Churches for the poor Saints at Jerusalem.)


And this they did (gave far beyond what seemed to be their ability), not as we hoped (meaning much greater than he had hoped), but first gave their own selves to the Lord (this means it was the Will of the Lord for them to do what they did) , and unto us by the Will of God. (They had great confidence in Paul and his Ministry. As we see here, the Holy Spirit used Macedonia as an example) (II Cor. 8:1-5).

The Holy Spirit used these impoverished Churches as an example, and for reason. It addresses itself perfectly to the Christian who thinks he cannot afford to give to God. My advice is whatever else we have to take off the list, above all, put the Lord first. This is the only way to get out of debt, to get one’s feet on solid financial footing, put God first. Tithing should be a minimum, with offerings given on top of that as we are able to do so, or else the Lord speaks to us about a certain amount.”


“Paul then wrote:

But this I say, He which sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly (if we give little to the Lord, He will bless little); and he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully. (If we give bountifully, He will bless bountifully. This is a Promise of the Lord) (II Cor. 9:6).

I cannot help but believe that the Lord blessed the Macedonians abundantly. But there is something else about this that we must understand.

It’s not necessarily the amount that one gives, but it’s how much we have left. There are some people who could only give $25 in today’s money, but to God it is a bountiful amount, and simply because they don’t have much. And there are others who give $1,000 and it’s an insult to the Lord because He has blessed them abundantly so, and yet they aren’t reciprocating.”


“Jesus called attention to a poor widow by saying the following:

And He looked up (our Lord was in the covered colonnade of that part of the Temple which was open to the Jewish women; here was the treasury with its thirteen boxes on the wall, where the people could give offerings), and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury (implying that they were making a show of their gifts, desiring to impress the people by the amount, etc.).

And He saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites (was probably worth something less than a U.S. dollar in 2003 purchasing power).

“And He said, Of a truth I say unto you (presents a new concept of giving), that this poor widow has cast in more than they all (the term ‘poor widow’ means that she worked very hard for what little she received) :”


“For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God (means that they had much left, constituting very little given, at least in the Eyes of God): but she of her penury (poverty) has cast in all the living that she had (spoke of her gift, as small as it was, being larger than all others combined because she gave all; God judges our giving by many factors; motive plays very heavily into the account)” (Lk. 21:1-4).

JSM




Right. Sounds like a typical Televangelist guilt trip. Damn them all to hell.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#83
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Amen
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,764
786
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#85
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Amen
Well the hypocrites won't make it. Probably not the Replacement Theology crowd either. Nor those that love the world.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#87
Well the hypocrites won't make it. Probably not the Replacement Theology crowd either. Nor those that love the world.
John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood (i.e., the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work), you have no life in you," (presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" (John 6:66). It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you.)

John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.

Let me be clear, tithing has nothing to do with your salvation.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#88
Let me be clear, tithing has nothing to do with your salvation.
I'm glad that you understand that. I hope you understand that tithing also has nothing to do with our earthly blessings or heavenly rewards either.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#89
Jesus tells us we must render to Caesar what belongs to him, and God what is His (Matthew 22:21). Jesus says, "If therefore you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches (Luke 16:11 NKJV)?

As I have stated before:

Christians are tested with the least in the Kingdom of God which is money.
Considering what Jesus has said here (Luke 16:9-13 NKJV), I think it would be difficult to overstate the significance of this down to earth, practical teaching, that applies to everyone. If a person cannot be trusted with money, and in any capacity, Jesus plainly says, he cannot be trusted with Salvation, i.e., "true riches." In view of the seriousness of what is being said, we would do well to heed carefully.


In these passages (Luke 16:9-13), Jesus is saying that irrespective of how loudly and how often we profess our Godliness, if it does not show up in our practical, every day living, and especially in the matters of money, and our responsibility toward others, our profession is vain. This statement is plain and clear, if we are unfaithful in these things. "Who will commit to our trust the true riches?"

Can a Christian Be cursed because of not tithing?
Does Christ rebuke the devourer if the Believer doesn't tithe?
Can a Christian test God in the New Testament? If so how?
Can a Christian live in the open windows of Heaven if they don't tithe?
Should I tithe, or pay my bills?


Please post your scripture to support your statement.

JSM
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,764
786
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#90
Who are you judging here?
The bogus hypocritical greedy Televangelists. Obviously. The legitimate faithful ones, few though they may be, are good to go.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,764
786
113
#91
Y
Jesus tells us we must render to Caesar what belongs to him, and God what is His (Matthew 22:21). Jesus says, "If therefore you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches (Luke 16:11 NKJV)?

As I have stated before:

Christians are tested with the least in the Kingdom of God which is money.
Considering what Jesus has said here (Luke 16:9-13 NKJV), I think it would be difficult to overstate the significance of this down to earth, practical teaching, that applies to everyone. If a person cannot be trusted with money, and in any capacity, Jesus plainly says, he cannot be trusted with Salvation, i.e., "true riches." In view of the seriousness of what is being said, we would do well to heed carefully.


In these passages (Luke 16:9-13), Jesus is saying that irrespective of how loudly and how often we profess our Godliness, if it does not show up in our practical, every day living, and especially in the matters of money, and our responsibility toward others, our profession is vain. This statement is plain and clear, if we are unfaithful in these things. "Who will commit to our trust the true riches?"

Can a Christian Be cursed because of not tithing?
Does Christ rebuke the devourer if the Believer doesn't tithe?
Can a Christian test God in the New Testament? If so how?
Can a Christian live in the open windows of Heaven if they don't tithe?
Should I tithe, or pay my bills?


Please post your scripture to support your statement.

JSM
Your continual misuse of the term tithe is wrecking your arguments.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,054
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#92
Can a Christian Be cursed because of not tithing?
No. Galatians 3:13.

Does Christ rebuke the devourer if the Believer doesn't tithe?
Irrelevant; see above.

Can a Christian test God in the New Testament? If so how?
Irrelevant; see above.

Can a Christian live in the open windows of Heaven if they don't tithe?
Irrelevant; see above.

Should I tithe, or pay my bills?
Pay your bills. Romans 13:8.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,521
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#93
Jesus says we should tithe:

“23 Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin (small plants used for seasoning), and have omitted the weightier matters of the Law, Judgment, Mercy, and Faith (they were meticulous about these insignificant things, but gave little or no heed at all, to those things which really mattered): these ought you to have done (pertaining to Scriptural Judgment, Mercy, and Faith), and not to leave the other undone (make sure, as well, that you pay tithe on all that you have; all of the Word of God is to be obeyed, not just part).”

"these ought you to have done"

JSM
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,054
5,474
113
#94
Jesus says we should tithe:

“23 Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin (small plants used for seasoning), and have omitted the weightier matters of the Law, Judgment, Mercy, and Faith (they were meticulous about these insignificant things, but gave little or no heed at all, to those things which really mattered): these ought you to have done (pertaining to Scriptural Judgment, Mercy, and Faith), and not to leave the other undone (make sure, as well, that you pay tithe on all that you have; all of the Word of God is to be obeyed, not just part).”

"these ought you to have done"

JSM
Context is critical!

Jesus was speaking under the Mosaic covenant, not the new covenant. He was speaking to Israelites, not Christians. He spoke in past tense: "ought to have done", not future continuous tense, "ought to keep doing".

It's interesting that the Pharisee went home unjustified before God despite paying tithes on all he got. See Luke 18 for the context. Tithing does nothing for the Christian except deflate his wallet and inflate his ego. Giving, on the other hand, builds the kingdom and lays up treasure in heaven.

If you want to give one-tenth of your mint, anise, and cumin at the temple, you go right ahead. Just make sure that you give ten percent, not nine and not eleven, and that you don't neglect to give ten percent of the value of your income, work-sponsored medical insurance, retirement fund, travel benefits, vacation pay, tips, found money, grass and leaves harvested from your property, and anything else that can rightly be considered "increase". All in the basket, at the temple... into the hands of a Levite. Go for it. Good luck.

For those of us who follow Christ and rightly divide His word, we'll give freely, and whether it is ten percent or not is irrelevant.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,764
786
113
#95
Jesus says we should tithe:

“23 Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin (small plants used for seasoning), and have omitted the weightier matters of the Law, Judgment, Mercy, and Faith (they were meticulous about these insignificant things, but gave little or no heed at all, to those things which really mattered): these ought you to have done (pertaining to Scriptural Judgment, Mercy, and Faith), and not to leave the other undone (make sure, as well, that you pay tithe on all that you have; all of the Word of God is to be obeyed, not just part).”

"these ought you to have done"

JSM
You need guidance. Desperately. Try Alistair Begg.

https://truthforlife.org
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#96
Who are you refering to? A specific carnival barker televangelist? They are all trash.
well, Swaggart in particular -- MOTC is actually posting direct quotes from one of his books.
but i was thinking of Osteen, too, because i know his millions have come mostly from selling books, and from paid speeches.
they don't draw million-dollar salaries from their churches; they sell millions of books, and people pay them thousands at a time to put on a show.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,723
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#97
Who are you refering to? A specific carnival barker televangelist? They are all trash.
that part

"JSM" = Jimmy Swaggart Ministries

MOTC isn't really talking to us here, making his own arguments or giving his own thoughts. he's copy-pasting Jimmy Swaggart's 'Expositor's Bible' -- just highlight a block of it & search google for the specific text; you'll get book-quotation results, word for word.

he's sold over a million of these, in several languages. it's about $100 for the leather-bound version. it's in exactly the same format MOTC has been posting, with the scripture in black and Swaggart's lengthy interjections inserted in red all throughout the text.

from a design standpoint i despise it. it's the same problem i have with the 'amplified' version, but to a much greater degree: you can't just pick this up and read scripture; there's so much addition in the middle of almost every sentence. every ounce of the flow of the narrative is gone & pragmatically, you're not reading the Bible at all, you're reading someone give you their version of it. just my opinion about the design: it doesn't amplify the scripture; it distorts it.

with Swaggart's version, all his additions are in bright red - where many of us come to expect that red-letters in the Bible mean Christ's own words - and for the bulk of it, there's a lot more words of Swaggart on each page than there is scripture.
by setting his own words inserted into the middle of the text, he's put them on par with it, and moreover, by making his own words stand out with the color choice, he's given them more importance than the actual text. i understand that it's a design choice to correlate his commentary directly with the scripture he's commenting on, but IMO it's a very bad one. there are a number of other solutions to how to format a book like this. you can put your comments in footnotes, a sidebar, or on alternating pages side by side with the text.
you don't have to insert your own words directly into the scripture, and you certainly don't have to put your own words in the color traditionally reserved for Christ's. i puke a little in my mouth reading stuff laid out like this :(
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#98
I believe gid Will reward giver If they do in the right way, but I doubt If God Will make them filthy rich

Because Jesus Himself say not easy for richman go to heaven. Why God put His child in to the situation that make them not easy to go to heaven?

Matthew 19:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,723
6,387
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#99
If you want to give one-tenth of your mint, anise, and cumin at the temple, you go right ahead. Just make sure that you give ten percent, not nine and not eleven, and that you don't neglect to give ten percent of the value of your income, work-sponsored medical insurance, retirement fund, travel benefits, vacation pay, tips, found money, grass and leaves harvested from your property, and anything else that can rightly be considered "increase". All in the basket, at the temple... into the hands of a Levite. Go for it. Good luck.
right now there's nothing growing in our garden, but i'd really like this spring to find a church that preaches tithing & bring 10% of my weekly strawberry yield to put it into the offering plate. i'm very interested to see how many weeks go by before i'm asked to stop filling up the money-box with actual mint, basil & sage :)

maybe i can write a book about my experience, become a millionaire too :D
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,723
6,387
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right now there's nothing growing in our garden, but i'd really like this spring to find a church that preaches tithing & bring 10% of my weekly strawberry yield to put it into the offering plate. i'm very interested to see how many weeks go by before i'm asked to stop filling up the money-box with actual mint, basil & sage :)

maybe i can write a book about my experience, become a millionaire too :D
post's wife informs him that currently, we actually have quite a lot of mint that's been thriving in the mild winter weather out there..

hmm