Today’s church’s misunderstandings

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Mar 14, 2011
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I don't think that's it tbh. It's more like the Pharisees vs. the Disciples, Jesus told the Disciples he choose BABES over LEARNED MEN, so he didn't have to get past their learnings/education/Men's Traditions. He told the Disciples that the Holy Spirit would give them what they needed to say at any given time, so the problem, via the Churches that have problems, not all do, of course, is......The ANOINTING is missing. Some are preaching who were not called to preach. Some are teaching who were not called to teach. Without the anointing, you can do nothing.
The church also grew from within, had many pastors and such, and was not a one man show

even if a man is called. he can not disciple hundreds of people. He should have no more than maybe a few people,he personally disciples, and have other leaders pastor and shepherd other groups of people, so they can grow into leaders and keep growing the church that way.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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I find today that the churches misunderstandings are this. They do not disciple the believers in their church. The believers are depandent on one person to teach them. The person teaching them has no idea what the scripture teaches outside of their deniminational bias. That means the congregation has a very narrow focus on everything then they try to convince others that what they say is the last word on truth.

I am sure you have noticed a few of them here.
here is the only problem with your statement. You too have been taught and your biblical understanding very much in line with mainline church Doctrine, yet you do not see what you said applies to you? nor should it.

Your understanding of the word of God is not because doctrinal teaching is wrong, but because you are not lazy and study.

However, no biblical teaching will mean anything until you apply it to your life. That is the issue sir,
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,372
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I don't think that's it tbh. It's more like the Pharisees vs. the Disciples, Jesus told the Disciples he choose BABES over LEARNED MEN, so he didn't have to get past their learnings/education/Men's Traditions. He told the Disciples that the Holy Spirit would give them what they needed to say at any given time, so the problem, via the Churches that have problems, not all do, of course, is......The ANOINTING is missing. Some are preaching who were not called to preach. Some are teaching who were not called to teach. Without the anointing, you can do nothing.
What is a tbh?
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,372
227
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The church also grew from within, had many pastors and such, and was not a one man show

even if a man is called. he can not disciple hundreds of people. He should have no more than maybe a few people,he personally disciples, and have other leaders pastor and shepherd other groups of people, so they can grow into leaders and keep growing the church that way.
Thye sooner we drop the title Pastor and replace it with the ministry of Elder, the more likely will we be New Testament material.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,372
227
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here is the only problem with your statement. You too have been taught and your biblical understanding very much in line with mainline church Doctrine, yet you do not see what you said applies to you? nor should it.

Your understanding of the word of God is not because doctrinal teaching is wrong, but because you are not lazy and study.

However, no biblical teaching will mean anything until you apply it to your life. That is the issue sir,
Actually no. having been taught what the church teaches that I was part off I saw the red light and decided I would investigate what I had been taught and found that what I had been taught bore no resemblance to what the scripture teaches or what acutally happened in the New Testament Church. That gave me a thirst for the truth and about a 100 books later and a paper written for a Ph.D. I discovered an entirely new way of understanding scripture and living as a believer.

As result I am not in bondage to any man or system and refuse to accept the status quo which is what most churches are happy with.

FYI, I have been putting things into practice for about 50 years as I was brought up to stand on the promises not sit on the premises.
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,622
16,426
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Thye sooner we drop the title Pastor and replace it with the ministry of Elder, the more likely will we be New Testament material.
We have many elders who are the head of our church
under them are many many pastors who shepherd home groups
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,167
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Actually no. having been taught what the church teaches that I was part off I saw the red light and decided I would investigate what I had been taught and found that what I had been taught bore no resemblance to what the scripture teaches or what acutally happened in the New Testament Church. That gave me a thirst for the truth and about a 100 books later and a paper written for a Ph.D. I discovered an entirely new way of understanding scripture and living as a believer.

As result I am not in bondage to any man or system and refuse to accept the status quo which is what most churches are happy with.

FYI, I have been putting things into practice for about 50 years as I was brought up to stand on the promises not sit on the premises.
The error is you " I discovered an entirely "new way". Like we are all to be impressed with 100 books and one paper written by a ph.D.?

For over 2000 years the Gospel message carried down from the Lord Jesus, the Apostles, and Church fathers to us today, is somehow inferior to your reading of only 100 books? I have more than that in my personal library. You do know that there is an overwhelming number of Christian Ph.D.'s who hold to the very same Doctrines in orthodoxy Christianity?

If your practice has provided you another way, a "new way" that is not Built on Jesus Christ alone You have no way, you are lost.

Jesus is the only way. God has kept HIS word and His word is well preserved by God, not mans intellectual capabilities or "New ways".
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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The church today says that the Sabbath was cancelled. As proof they tell of Mary’s discovery of the risen Christ on Sunday. It doesn’t make sense that the time of a discovery should change what God tells us He created on the seventh day, or that a time of discovering something establishes when it happened, but that is the way they think.

The Lord gave us a new covenant, one we are told makes the old covenant obsolete. The church tells us that God knew he make a mistake so he cancelled the old covenant. I guess they think that God is like them and they know they make mistakes so they say so does the Lord. As if the Lord was just another human.

The church goes on and on about the mistakes the Lord has made. They say the sacrificial system didn’t work at all for atonement of sin even though scripture tells us it did. When the blood of cattle was used to feed the Lord, like pagans fed idols and not as a symbol of Christ, God hated it so the church tells us it was a mistake of the Lord to establish it.

The church tells us OT scripture can be in error. OT scripture tells us that God guides us to praise and celebrate His plan of salvation for us with feasts for all generations. The church tells us that is an error, that the feasts are to be treated the same way cutting the foreskin is treated.

Scripture tells us to celebrate Christ with Passover, the church says God cancelled that. They made up a new way to do it and named it using pagan gods to inspire them to make up a name for this replacement.

Demons are attracted to the church, undermining it is undermining the Lord. They have done a mighty work, they will still fail in the end.
DISCLAIMER: I have respect for every single person here. I hope that we can agree, or at least agree to disagree. Never take anything I say as angry, because I am here to love and share biblical truth as I see it. I respect everyone’s God-given right to freewill thought and decision. I will open-mindedly consider what you have to say, and hope that you will do the same for me…

God did not make a mistake. He prophesied many times in the old testament that the Christ would come. And when He came He had us do the same things as in the old testament, but spiritually instead of physically. Instead of a physical rest on a physical day, our Sabbath is now spiritual, and is called “The peace that surpasses understanding.”

Instead of physically taking extreme sinners out of the city and stoning them to death, we are now ordered to disfellowship that person until they come to repentance. Instead of prophets giving us God’s Word, the Bible gives us God’s Word. Instead of a physical high priest we now have a spiritual High Priest- Christ. So we still obey the same laws, but we do so spiritually instead of physically. That is not a mistake, but preplanned.

To us the physical seems more real than the spiritual. But to God the spiritual is more real. Which makes sense since the physical is only temporary. Before God created physical things He was only spiritual, and after He destroys all physicality we will all only be spiritual. So the physical ways of the old testament were not the reality, they were only a shadow of the coming reality- the spiritual way found in Christ (Colossians 2:17).

Here is God’s pattern...

old testament= physical bodies, physical worship
new testament= physical bodies, spiritual worship
the afterlife= spiritual bodies, spiritual worship
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,480
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It's an abbreviation or acronym; "tbh" is short for "To be honest".

Thye sooner we drop the title Pastor and replace it with the ministry of Elder, the more likely will we be New Testament material.
I agree; I grit my teeth at "pastor" being used as a title. I don't call anyone "Pastor" except to distinguish one individual from another of the same name. Fortunately the person in the primary pastoral "position" at my local church doesn't encourage use of the title either.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,372
227
63
Actually no. having been taught what the church teaches that I was part off I saw the red light and decided I would investigate what I had been taught and found that what I had been taught bore no resemblance to what the scripture teaches or what acutally happened in the New Testament Church. That gave me a thirst for the truth and about a 100 books later and a paper written for a Ph.D. I discovered an entirely new way of understanding scripture and living as a believer.

As result I am not in bondage to any man or system and refuse to accept the status quo which is what most churches are happy with.

FYI, I have been putting things into practice for about 50 years as I was brought up to stand on the promises not sit on the premises.
Disagree with what CS1! Me telling the truth?
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,372
227
63
The error is you " I discovered an entirely "new way". Like we are all to be impressed with 100 books and one paper written by a ph.D.?

For over 2000 years the Gospel message carried down from the Lord Jesus, the Apostles, and Church fathers to us today, is somehow inferior to your reading of only 100 books? I have more than that in my personal library. You do know that there is an overwhelming number of Christian Ph.D.'s who hold to the very same Doctrines in orthodoxy Christianity?

If your practice has provided you another way, a "new way" that is not Built on Jesus Christ alone You have no way, you are lost.

Jesus is the only way. God has kept HIS word and His word is well preserved by God, not mans intellectual capabilities or "New ways".
Ad hominen.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,372
227
63
It's an abbreviation or acronym; "tbh" is short for "To be honest".


I agree; I grit my teeth at "pastor" being used as a title. I don't call anyone "Pastor" except to distinguish one individual from another of the same name. Fortunately the person in the primary pastoral "position" at my local church doesn't encourage use of the title either.
That is good. Perhaps he has a servant heart.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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Who can clearly explain why the Sabbath is not the seventh day?I'm confused.
:unsure:
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
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Who can clearly explain why the Sabbath is not the seventh day?I'm confused.
:unsure:

Not sure I can explain; had always believed the Sabbath was the seventh day. On the seventh day, God rested from all the Work He had done, and later commanded the Israelites to rest on the seventh day. No work was to be done...it was a day of rest.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,167
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If you are not accountable for what you said I can see why you would think it is an " Ad hominem, however, you promoted the reading of 100 books and one paper from a Ph.d. Don't suggest one is directed against you rather than the position you are maintaining, when you submitted your experience as the witness and of your statement. That is dishonesty.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,372
227
63
If you are not accountable for what you said I can see why you would think it is an " Ad hominem, however, you promoted the reading of 100 books and one paper from a Ph.d. Don't suggest one is directed against you rather than the position you are maintaining, when you submitted your experience as the witness and of your statement. That is dishonesty.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Dec 13, 2013
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A lot of the comments in this thread are born of ignorance. The most common one is that the Old Covenant cannot give us salvation so it is no longer valid. Saying that shows a distinct ignorance of the Old Covenant and what it set out to achieve and an ignorance of the New Covenant in relation to the Old.

The Old Covenant was a covenant between God and the Jews. It was constituted to allow God to convey what was needed for them to be God's select. The basis of it was the 10 commandments. The rest is not commandmnets but ordinances which built on the 10 Commandments.

The ordinances were not neccesarily part of God's law for the Jews. A lot of them were created by the priests to reflect their interpretation of it all. You may remember Jesus castigasted the priests because they were more concerned about tithing a herb than the weightier matters of the law.

We read that the law was fulfilled in Jesus. Too many people interpret that to mean that the law was cancelled in Jesus under the New Covenant. That is not true. In fact, the demands of the New Covenant are greater than the demands of the Old Covenant. The Jews were required to fulfil the law under the Old. We are required to lay down our lives under the New.

If you have a problem with the Old then you are definitely going to have a problem with the New.

Under the Old the instruction was Thou shalt not....a command. Under the New it is Thou shalt not...a promise. The Old is wrapped up in the new and God promises us that we will obey his word. If that is not the case, what is the point of the new?

Of course the Old cannot give us salvation and does not need to because Jesus has provided that through the cross. The scripture says that God has provided a New Covenant through Jesus which opens the door to the salvation that he offers. Our relationship to the Old is relevant AFTER we have accepted his offer of salvation.

People eschew the Sabbath because it is Old Covenant. So I ask if that is case it is OK to murder which is also Old Covenant. No that is different. How? They are both commands of the Old Covenant. If one is relevant for the New then both are. If one is not relevant for the New then neither are.

FYI, the New Terstament Church did not meet on Sunday because it was a working day so no one could attend a meeting. Their day off was sunset Friday until sunset Saturday.

So if you are eschewing the Old because it does not provide salvation, you have missed the point entirely.