Understanding God’s election

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Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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For rejecting the truth, that justification, the free gift, love, even Christ Himself.

People cast themselves into destruction by rejecting life, as Adam did.

That justification is available to anyone, to all men, it is a gift freely given.
Again with available. The verse doesn't say it was made available. It says it is upon all men. The verse doesn't allow for available.
 
Nov 17, 2015
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Yes but that's directed to the elect for whom it was made for, and that atonement was reckon theirs before they received it by Faith, it was theirs even while they were enemies Vs 10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The atonement in Vs 11 is the same as the reconciled in Vs 10, same greek word
It is because there is no elect content in the entire chapter I’ll have just to disregard this.

Agreed is that the atonement essentially means reconciliation. However, I disagree that reconciliation occurs before faith. God’s plan provided atonement, reconciling enemies to friends, resulting in peace with Him.

Romans 5:1-2

King James Version

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.



Atonement, reconciliation, justification, and salvation occur through faith in Christ. Faith is the instrumentality. Consequently, justification, atonement, reconciliation, and salvation follow the exercise of faith. Even the meaning of atonement reinforces this sequence implying restoration after discord, not before.

So, the bolded words in Romans 5:10 mean we have the provision for reconciliation through the death of the Son. Again, this is reinforced by the phrase “For it” which speaks about Christ's death and the blood indicated in verses 8-9 preceding. Now we asked when an enemy received the atonement.it is when acted by and through faith in Christ.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Ephesians 1:4
Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

That verse states that anyone who believes in Him is chosen to be holy!

"that we would be holy and blameless before Him"

"He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world", does not say we were chosen to be saved.
I dont know what you talking about, but Rom 5:18 is about the elect, and all elect were altogether chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 regardless of ethnicity
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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It is because there is no elect content in the entire chapter I’ll have just to disregard this.

Agreed is that the atonement essentially means reconciliation. However, I disagree that reconciliation occurs before faith. God’s plan provided atonement, reconciling enemies to friends, resulting in peace with Him.

Romans 5:1-2

King James Version

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.



Atonement, reconciliation, justification, and salvation occur through faith in Christ. Faith is the instrumentality. Consequently, justification, atonement, reconciliation, and salvation follow the exercise of faith. Even the meaning of atonement reinforces this sequence implying restoration after discord, not before.

So, the bolded words in Romans 5:10 mean we have the provision for reconciliation through the death of the Son. Again, this is reinforced by the phrase “For it” which speaks about Christ's death and the blood indicated in verses 8-9 preceding. Now we asked when an enemy received the atonement.it is when acted by and through faith in Christ.
Rom 5 is all about the elect, you cant see it
 

Cameron143

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Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Nope, nope, nope... we can't have that, people have to be regenerated first.

You see god set it up so that no one can believe unless He lets them! :rolleyes:
It brings god a lot of glory cause apparently he is lacking otherwise.

It is in the scripture ... just cut and paste a few verses together out of context and you can see it too!

......and where it states "believe" in your mind you have to make so that means "gifted belief" cause that is actually the right way, it is just that one has to become a Calvinists to see it!
You mean unless he mercifully raises them from the dead to free them from all things which they were enslaved so that they would be free to believe and repent.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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For rejecting the truth, that justification, the free gift, love, even Christ Himself.

People cast themselves into destruction by rejecting life, as Adam did.

That justification is available to anyone, to all men, it is a gift freely given.
What we have is an inability of some on this thread to make a distinction between what we refer to as the depravity of humanity versus the concept of moral inability to confess one's sin and trust in Christ based on the power and truth of the Gospel.

There's a difference between being depraved and being morally incapable of confessing depravity, it serves their doctrine to conflate the two.

This is really what is at the heart of their poor hermeneutics.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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You mean unless he mercifully raises them from the dead to free them from all things which they were enslaved so that they would be free to believe and repent.
Scripture does not teach moral depravity is = to morally incapable to recognize one's sin.

They are distinct.

But if you need this for your own emotional well being that is your choice.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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What we have is an inability of some on this thread to make a distinction between what we refer to as the depravity of humanity versus the concept of moral inability to confess one's sin and trust in Christ based on the power and truth of the Gospel.

There's a difference between being depraved and being morally incapable of confessing depravity, it serves their doctrine to conflate the two.

This is really what is at the heart of their poor hermeneutics.
What is the power of the gospel?
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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And yet though it is by his grace we still have to choose to believe and the reason everyone will not have an excuse on judgement day is not because no one is perfect that is what we need salvation for but because we rejected the truth
Do you mean to say God controls you and that is why you believe? you have no will and everything is just God's will with no accountability on your part?
No, I mean God raised me up to life -- he RESCUED me -- and then I had the ability to believe.
 

Rufus

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Inquisitor

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Mar 17, 2022
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What we have is an inability of some on this thread to make a distinction between what we refer to as the depravity of humanity versus the concept of moral inability to confess one's sin and trust in Christ based on the power and truth of the Gospel.

There's a difference between being depraved and being morally incapable of confessing depravity, it serves their doctrine to conflate the two.

This is really what is at the heart of their poor hermeneutics.
I have met people who were not Christians that do readily admit, they have done wrong during their life.

I have met people that have done terrible things and they try to suppress that knowledge.

There are folk that drink to block out their past behavior.

They fully know what they have done.

As I do and everyone does.

The Holy Spirit does, in fact, convict all men of sin.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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No, I mean God raised me up to life -- he RESCUED me -- and then I had the ability to believe.
Well I suppose however you came to Christ as long as it is a real relationship then that what matters.
For me I was brought to my lowest point in tears begging him to come into my heart I went to bed in tears thinking he wouldn't answer me but the next morning I woke up filled with this life inside me like fire or electricity flowing through my body I literally jumped out of bed and danced for him out of joy and trust me I need my coffee in the morning but not that morning.
 
Jan 17, 2023
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If you hate the Gospel, you hate the Gospel
Now you're just being foolish. If I hated the Gospel I wouldn't be here at a Christian discussion site and I wouldn't be defending the Bible. You're being childish and foolish because you can't prove error in what I'm saying.