What unanswered questions arise as you read the Bible?

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pablocito

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Apr 22, 2021
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Which verse says people are born in sin? When you were born, what was your sin?



All of Christ's followers made a deliberate and conscious decision to follow after him and obey him. Even others turned and stopped following him:

John 6
66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.



God's grace is accessed by our faith, not God's faith. That means we have a part to play too:

Romans 5
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

This probably is where I get off the boat, as our views are opposite to one another and thus you could say that we are natural adversaries.
I will however leave a couple of verses for those who may be following this conversation for their consideration.

[John 8:41] Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
[John 8:42] Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
[John 8:43] Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[John 8:44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[John 8:45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
[John 8:46] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
[John 8:47] He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Mat_12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

[Mark 4:11] And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
[Mark 4:12] That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

[Matthew 9:12] But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
[Matthew 9:13] But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance

[Romans 3:10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[Romans 3:23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
[1John 1:8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

[Romans 5:12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

[1John 3:9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

(The above verse cannot be understood by non-Christians)

[1John] 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

[Galations 3:22] But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Finally even David concluded he was born in sin
Psa_51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
 

pablocito

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Apr 22, 2021
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a yeah I’m not much of a writer and don’t claim to be just expressing thoughts the best that I’m able
I too am not a writer or even a reader as I know I have not read most of the bible. It is God's grace that has provided me with his truths, basically a miracle to me. I cannot explain it in any other way. God uses the inept and the throw-aways to show forth his power and his glory.

Seems as though you were on a vacation. Have not heard from you in a long time.
 

pablocito

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Apr 22, 2021
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All of Christ's followers made a deliberate and conscious decision to follow after him and obey him. Even others turned and stopped following him:
I will take your points one by one and show how the bible answers them.

1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

Jesus used parables to explain everything. Seeds that fell among thorns or rocks will eventually fall away because they are not on good ground. God plants things on good ground not on bad ground.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Similar to how Judas was instrumental in contributing to the crucifixion of Christ, likewise many false teachers and prophets were ordained by God before the foundation of the earth to come in and sow seeds of destruction among God's people.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Verse 30 shows that even your own brethren will turn away from the truth, turning away from the faith.

The point made above about the disciples turning back: Even others turned and stopped following him
happened only when the truth was told to them.
Jesus told them that they would have to eat of his flesh and drink of his blood.
They could not tolerate such talk because they they did not know the master.
Now Jesus asked the twelve if they would also leave him, but Jesus who had chosen and handpicked them, knew that his Father's choices were always perfect. The disciples told him that they could not leave him because they would have no other place to go. (In other words they were sold on Jesus).

Many many more people came to Jesus and went away sad, unable to follow him because they could not meet the requirements that Jesus imposed on them.

Those who give up all to follow Jesus, will not turn back, because they have nothing to turn back to. To give up all, yes, takes an extraordinary commitment.
Jesus say count the cost before you give up all to follow me because the road is not easy. There is suffering etc.

NO MAN CAN FOLLOW JESUS IN THEIR OWN STRENGTH, God has to provide the grace they need in order to follow Christ.
By GRACE are ye saved, through FAITH.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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I too am not a writer or even a reader as I know I have not read most of the bible. It is God's grace that has provided me with his truths, basically a miracle to me. I cannot explain it in any other way. God uses the inept and the throw-aways to show forth his power and his glory.

Seems as though you were on a vacation. Have not heard from you in a long time.
amen yes we all have our different strengths and weaknesses in many ways. Some are great eloquent wordsmiths and grammar elite when it comes to writing. Definately not a strength of mine but the information we each have grasp of is good always even if we can’t present it satisfactory to each and every person

I think we all do our best here. And no I’m retired so no vacation sometimes my fingers don’t work well to type and I’m. NOt able to say much

I think that’s one reason I usually have long posts when my fingers are working properly.
 

pablocito

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Apr 22, 2021
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amen yes we all have our different strengths and weaknesses in many ways. Some are great eloquent wordsmiths and grammar elite when it comes to writing. Definately not a strength of mine but the information we each have grasp of is good always even if we can’t present it satisfactory to each and every person

I think we all do our best here. And no I’m retired so no vacation sometimes my fingers don’t work well to type and I’m. NOt able to say much

I think that’s one reason I usually have long posts when my fingers are working properly.

I did do some amount of software programming quite awhile back and was obsessed with sitting in front of a computer for long hours and now my fingers lockup on me sometimes which is a bit scary.

But I came across a couple of verses in the bible a few days ago, that told me to slow down (Isaiah 28:16) and also to go to bed early and wake up late. (Psalms 127:2)

This the first time that I have ever took personal messages out of the bible that appears to be the solution to my developing problems of tiredness and anxiety. I guess those verses were ready-made for me, because in most cases the bible says the opposite thing, especially to make haste and also Jesus often woke up early to pray. It is surely true that God deals with us on an individual basis and not as a herd. ( He left the 99 and went looking for the 1 lost one)
 

Pilgrimshope

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I did do some amount of software programming quite awhile back and was obsessed with sitting in front of a computer for long hours and now my fingers lockup on me sometimes which is a bit scary.

But I came across a couple of verses in the bible a few days ago, that told me to slow down (Isaiah 28:16) and also to go to bed early and wake up late. (Psalms 127:2)

This the first time that I have ever took personal messages out of the bible that appears to be the solution to my developing problems of tiredness and anxiety. I guess those verses were ready-made for me, because in most cases the bible says the opposite thing, especially to make haste and also Jesus often woke up early to pray. It is surely true that God deals with us on an individual basis and not as a herd. ( He left the 99 and went looking for the 1 lost one)
ayes that’s good advice brother I have some pretty severe arthritis in my hands. I can’t actually type but I have a sliding thing so I can just slide to different letters after touching my finger to the screen

sometimes however it simply hurts too much in my wrists and fingers to use them much at all. I’m used to a certain amount but sometimes it’s really
Not bearable for me anyways

aim assuming eventually I probably won’t be writing much here because of that but will always be reading and reacting by likes till I get home and my hands are perfect again
 

pablocito

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Apr 22, 2021
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ayes that’s good advice brother I have some pretty severe arthritis in my hands. I can’t actually type but I have a sliding thing so I can just slide to different letters after touching my finger to the screen

sometimes however it simply hurts too much in my wrists and fingers to use them much at all. I’m used to a certain amount but sometimes it’s really
Not bearable for me anyways

aim assuming eventually I probably won’t be writing much here because of that but will always be reading and reacting by likes till I get home and my hands are perfect again

My faith was very strong after the pandemic started in 2020. I very soon afterwards stopped taking my high blood pressure tablets and have not visited the doctor in 2 years. Even though they have been calling me and writing me often.
Yes, patience is the key as it is obvious that the world has gone mad, just as the bible predicted and soon we will be going home, possibly within a year or 2. I, actually have been waiting for about 4 years since 2018, as the signs were very obvious then and they just keep getting worse.

The end is going to come suddenly without any warning, so keep the faith and keep away from this idolic world. Every aspect of it is totally ungodly and once bitten, you could be hooked for life. Solomon appeared to have gotten in at the deep end but Solomon was God's beloved and I am sure that God kept him from drowning. I do not believe that any bible writer who God used to convey his message over the centuries will be lost. Solomon's books actually saved my life. (Of course they are the words of God, which came to him through the Holy Ghost, so God is ultimately responsible.)

Lastly you will have to go through the fire, so prepare yourself for such an event. It will probably be the most terrible experience of your entire life. (Job was well prepared as God considered him just and perfect)
 

soberxp

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Which fire is that?
1 Corinthians 3
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Burn the flame of your sin, or the baptism of fire,The flame can burn the darkness in you, burn the sin in you.
 

Pilgrimshope

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My faith was very strong after the pandemic started in 2020. I very soon afterwards stopped taking my high blood pressure tablets and have not visited the doctor in 2 years. Even though they have been calling me and writing me often.
Yes, patience is the key as it is obvious that the world has gone mad, just as the bible predicted and soon we will be going home, possibly within a year or 2. I, actually have been waiting for about 4 years since 2018, as the signs were very obvious then and they just keep getting worse.

The end is going to come suddenly without any warning, so keep the faith and keep away from this idolic world. Every aspect of it is totally ungodly and once bitten, you could be hooked for life. Solomon appeared to have gotten in at the deep end but Solomon was God's beloved and I am sure that God kept him from drowning. I do not believe that any bible writer who God used to convey his message over the centuries will be lost. Solomon's books actually saved my life. (Of course they are the words of God, which came to him through the Holy Ghost, so God is ultimately responsible.)

Lastly you will have to go through the fire, so prepare yourself for such an event. It will probably be the most terrible experience of your entire life. (Job was well prepared as God considered him just and perfect)
Yes brother the world isn’t kind to Gods people but I’m not sure how much fire I have left to go through been through poverty to a foreign war , to degenerative illness and many of the difficulties seven decades can bring a person.

I’m sort of old so I’m pretty sure most of my trials are behind and the biggest day I have ahead is leaving this earth which I’m ready when he is

sort of not much left of the me that was born into the world but a lot of Jesus and a lot of learned lessons remain

regarding his return brother it’s seemed near since the gospel days even the apostles were waiting for his sudden return but here’s the thing with that there’s a reason it’s taking a long time

knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your right it’s going to be a sodden event when the world doesn’t expect him but there’s a reason he’s taking time it’s so more can repent and be saved

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

a when we share the gospel just the things Jesus said for us to share his word and teachings and the understanding of his life death and resurrection his ascention to the throne in heaven

a that’s what’s going to lead people to repent and bring the day of his coming and this wonderful day

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at he doctrine was n the Bible teaches us to live as if he’s coming tomorrow but a thousand years to you and me seems a long time but to God it’s just as a single day

also it makes it impossible for us to really calculate any timing soon to God may be still 2000 years for mankind

the key is that no matter how long it is till he returns we only have our short lifetime to find him and believe so it’s always urgent while we live in the world and it’s always just around the corner because we have a lifetime to hear and believe the gospel we don’t actually have thousands of years but just the time we’re given here

airs always near yet could
Be a hundred generations from now or quite possibly tomorrow today is what matters how are we living ? As a child of God in Christ ? Lovong others ? Or are we living like those who don’t accept Christ ? Those who love for only themselves ? Are we a blessing to people in his name ? Or a curse to people ? Do we do good each today ? Or do we indulge and waste each today and promise to change tomorrow ?
 

VARob

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1 Corinthians 3
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
That's talking about a person's unrighteous works being burned up, not the person. A person's works will be "revealed by fire." If all his works are burned up, he will still be saved, but only as, or like, a person who went through a fire.

(NIV) If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Burn the flame of your sin, or the baptism of fire,The flame can burn the darkness in you, burn the sin in you.
I'm not sure what you mean.
 

pablocito

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Apr 22, 2021
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Be a hundred generations from now or quite possibly tomorrow today is what matters how are we living ? As a child of God in Christ ? Lovong others ? Or are we living like those who don’t accept Christ ? Those who love for only themselves ? Are we a blessing to people in his name ? Or a curse to people ? Do we do good each today ? Or do we indulge and waste each today and promise to change tomorrow ?
I really do not look on you as a person in the human race but rather as a brother in Christ, spiritually. So I will share a tid-bit with you for your consideration. Please think it over very carefully because as the saying goes "haste makes waste".

We discussed a topic sometime ago and I believe that you might have insinuated that in John 17 Jesus said he lost none except the son of perdition (Judas Iscariot). Therefore you believed that the other 11 disciples were saved.
Now I could be wrong in my recollection of what you said and if I am wrong, I will apologize now.

Now Matthew 28:18-20 says this: (This was after Jesus's resurrection, his very last statements in the book of Matthew)

Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The point I am making here is that after traveling with Jesus for 3 years and learning all that he taught and seeing him crucified and come back to life, some of the 11 disciples doubted in Jesus.
The bible does not randomly throw insignificant bits and pieces together for our admonition and learning but every word is significant and for our admonition. (Never assume anything especially as we saw John in John 21:23 scolding the words of Peter when he assumed and said things that Jesus did not say.)

Jesus gave this commission to his 11 disciples.

Now going back to Matthew 10:4-5
Jesus gave this commission to his 11 disciples.

Jesus singled out Judas Iscariot (his betrayer) as one of the 12 disciples whom he sent out to the lost sheep of Israel. (Of course he singled him out not to the other disciples or anyone else but to those who would read the bible 2000 years later)

These 12 disciples were to preach saying the kingdom of heaven was at hand.
But most importantly they all were to do these things.
Heal the sick.
Cleanse the lepers.
Raise the dead.
Cast out devils.

The main point I am making here is that Judas Iscariot did all these powerful things as Jesus filled him with his Holy Ghost with power to do them.

Jesus knew that Judas was going to betray him, even though the other disciples did not know, because God the Father, gave him knowledge of exactly what he would have to go through.

The bible says that God's ways are past finding out.
And also my ways are not your ways and your ways are not my ways.

Paul later on said that God was in Jesus reconciling the world unto himself.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Therefore we know that Jesus was ahead of the game as God told him exactly everything that was going to happen to him. And that was why he could read the minds of people around him and prepare for all things that were about to happen to him. (It was God in him that did these things and it was God in the disciples that did greater things than Jesus did, as Jesus told them that they would do.

John_14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

I am only saying these things because I want to emphasize that human reasoning is opposite to God's reasoning and often wrong.

Lastly I have to be truthful and say that I do not share the same views that you do but that is OK and in fact that is the way that God intended it to be. We are different in the sight of God and thus we have our own baggage that comes with our own journey.

I really don't have anything else that I have to or want to say.
 

pablocito

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Apr 22, 2021
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your right it’s going to be a sodden event when the world doesn’t expect him but there’s a reason he’s taking time it’s so more can repent and be saved
I think you are wrong on this point. In the days of Noah so shall it be in the end.

In the days of Noah, Peter said that God was longsuffering while he waited.
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

In the above verse it says that they were disobedient. Who were disobedient - the sons of God.
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

The sons of God are those who like Noah was considered righteous before God. But they apparently joined the crowd and got into eating and drinking, and marrying and being married and all the other things that the bible states will happen in the last days before the return of Christ.

Also God is infinite in his ways and God could not end the world in Noah's day unless Noah had finished building the ark. The Ark was Noah's salvation for him and his family.
Today our ark is our sanctification. Jesus cannot come unless our ark (our sanctification ) is built. When Jesus comes those who are not sanctified by the Holy Ghost will drown or in today's language will be thrown out of God's kingdom.

It's a bit more complex than that but it would take too much for me to explain what is already stated in the bible and one only has to read the bible slowly and carefully under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

Now this is where things get a little sticky, Peter told us that Jesus Christ went and preached to those spirits in prison (the disobedient souls who were God's servants) when he went down to the grave. This is another whole new topic which is not relevant to our discussion, so I will not address it.

Anyhow to each man his own. I hope I do not influence you to believe what I believe and that if you chose to believe it , it must be on your own belief and you must own it from your own heart. Never believe anything than any man, any book, any angel brings to you. The Holy Spirit is the only legitimate source of God's truth and that is why he is called the Spirit of Truth.
 

pablocito

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Apr 22, 2021
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also it makes it impossible for us to really calculate any timing soon to God may be still 2000 years for mankind
I will not nit-pick your response to me. So this is the last point I will make.
Jesus did come for those in the first century. Yes he fulfilled his promise as he had said.

There is no ambiguity in God's word else we would all be confused and God would be made a liar. To his saints he, through his word fulfills his promises which are perfect, just as his commandments that we are to keep are perfect.

The people of the first covenant, their promises were fulfilled. Jesus said he came not to destroy or put away but to fulfill, and not one word of God's promises from Genesis to Revelation will go unfulfilled.
The first covenant were those in the 1st Resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

One of thing about the bible is that everything in it is backwards to how man would think. Thus many times the bibles puts the end before the beginning.

In fact that is why many people talk about Genesis have 2 creations of mankind. In Genesis 1, God created man and woman. And also in Genesis 2, God created only man and then later on created woman from a rib of man.

How it works is that Genesis 1 creation is just a summary of God's creation of the human race. In Genesis 2 is deals with the generation of man's creation and details just how God did it.

There are so many things in the bible that trips up mankind because he refuses to do it God's way, it would take all the books in the world to enumerate them.

We in these last days are in the 2nd Covenant and will stand before God's throne on the last day.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

From henceforth is the most important word in the above verse. If you were following the narrative "from henceforth" comes after many other things had taken place, including the resurrection and harvesting of the saints of the church period of the 1st century.

Again please do not believe me, I am only a man. You know who and what you have to believe. I am not going to write anymore of my own beliefs to you because most people would take it as being intrusive on another person and you are entitled to believe what God has laid upon your own heart.
 

Adstar

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The problem here is one of definition; I have not looked up the word "only" but if "only" does not mean "only" in the sense of exclusion of everything or everyone else, then maybe I possibly could be called "good" also in the sight of God. If there is one exception, there could be thousands of exceptions, if God made just a tiny weeny bit of a mistake in the bible, he possibly could have made other mistakes too.

Not so !!! Who are you to confront and challenge God based upon you teeney weeny mind comparable to ant, or even less than an ant, because an ant does by instinct what God has made him to do. Man is the only creature that rebels against God.

I have to be insistent here. God is perfect, the bible is perfect and when God says something, he is not trying to mislead us or confuse us.

Ok, possibly you do not know God. Also you possibly think the the bible is not perfect and has some flaws in communication, just because you do not understand it. Now I can understand why you possibly think that Jesus had some ulterior motive in saying what he said.

But that statement in the bible is not needed to prove that God is the only one good. In fact if you really know God and if you really understand the bible, then the entire bible proves that God is the only one good. I guess I could give you some clues. But I won't. You should go searching again for the truth in the bible, if you really care about the truth and also with your relationship with God.

The funny thing is that usually everyone is wrong and God is right. The reason is that everyone is corrupt and like birds of a feather then stick together. Noah was the only righteous man when God destroyed the rest of the world. Yes. I would appeal to you not to follow the crowd.
You seem to have totally misread my post.. Either that or you do not believe Jesus is LORD? I was not questioning that God is Good.. Yes God is good.. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are One with God and therefore Jesus was and is good and the Holy Spirit was and is good..

I would appeal to you to believe Jesus is LORD..
 

Lanolin

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animals in the ark...dinosaurs?
Or where they all drowned in the flood thats why so many fossils.
 

persistent

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animals in the ark...dinosaurs?
Or where they all drowned in the flood thats why so many fossils.
Moses_Young said:
Mystery solved, I guess! :)
LOL>>LOL>>>LOL Me Persistent and I can't stop >>LOL>>>LOL >>when I see mystery solved. >>warped sense of humor????

Lanolin, I hope you are not upset about Dinah. And Dino he is Fred Flinstones' pet not a fossil.