WHY DID GOD?

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#41
The forehead very much represents a person's thinking and beliefs, out of which arise the actions anyone takes and the things we do and what we serve with our hands.

So you feel that the mark is not a mark at all, but represents what one thinks and does?
Do you think the mark God put on Cain was something visible, like a tattoo? Let's take a look at Scripture :) Revelation 14:1 says, Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144, 000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. Do they/we have God's name literally written on our foreheads? How about Revelation 22:4 , which says: They will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. Again, do you think this is a literal mark, or is it meant to be symbolic of to Whom we have pledged our allegiance? Deuteronomy 6:5-8 ~ Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Hebrews 10:16 ~ “This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their hearts and inscribe them on their minds.”
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#42
Uh, not so fast:

1. We are waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:7).

2. Christ will not come until that man of sin is revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3).

3. Christ will destroy that man of sin at his coming (2 Thessalonians 2:8; Matthew 24:29-31).

4. Those elect, beheaded and living, will be raptured at Christ's coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53; 1 John 3:2; Revelation 11:15).

5. The rest of the dead (who died before that man of sin is revealed - saved and lost) will be be raised after Satan is cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:12; Matthew 25:32).
Rapture comes first.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#43
God designed man to live with Him forever and put man in a world where evil was contained, locked away. Adam and Eve let evil loose in the world. Evil ones want death for us, not life with the Lord, so God provided a way to bypass evil and make it so it would not kill. God gave blood on the altar for this that Christ fulfilled on our earth.

God has explained this for us over and over, and uses the mark of the beast to help explain. The bottom line is that you either accept the only way there is to avoid death or you don't accept it.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#46
Satan was already in the world before Adam and Eve sinned.
Your bible does not say the same things mine does. What does this bible you own say about the garden of Eden? What does it say the effect on the world was when Adam sinned? Was there death before sin was let loose? Was there atonement before Christ or did even David and Moses face death?
 
Feb 29, 2020
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#47
Rapture comes first.
Rapture comes when Christ returns to destroy that man of sin.

2 Thessalonians 2:2-3
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
 
Aug 14, 2019
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#49
Your bible does not say the same things mine does. What does this bible you own say about the garden of Eden? What does it say the effect on the world was when Adam sinned? Was there death before sin was let loose? Was there atonement before Christ or did even David and Moses face death?
Death and decay are part of creation. Sin didn't change creation in that way. God expected mankind to lift creation out of that futile existence. We sinned and we entered that futile existence and God rescued us. Creation is waitimg to see the the children of God as Paul teaches , it groans as it waits.
 

Kolistus

Well-known member
Feb 3, 2020
538
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#50
Once again there is no rapture in the Bible. 1 Thess 4:17 is not it! We can go over the Greek again, if anyone wants!

I also believe in a literal hell, but I am only worried for my family and friends who are not saved. I do not think Revelation is meant to be taken literally, except chapters 1-3 and 21 and 22. I've just been reading Revelation in Koine Greek. The allegorical aspects really come through better.

I don't believe in the Mark of the beast, 1900 hundred years later. This was written to the churches in Asia in the first century. It was in code, so the Romans would not understand it. But the church did, although we have lost our understanding of it, and utterly been mixed up by gloom and doom preachers since the 18th century!

Jesus will return once. The message is that we will remain on the new earth. Heaven was not made for us, the earth was.

It is so frustrating that people are so brainwashed about this, and scared. And finding imaginary theories to get off the earth before these imaginary ideas come true (or more likely, don't come true)

Please look at the Amillennial view. It is the only end times scenario that makes sense. Look at all 4 end time views. If you choose a viewpoint, realize that eschatology is very difficult. Every scholar I know is Amillennial, except for one professor who was historical premillennialism. No one who has a knowledge of biblical languages and hermeneutics is a Dispie. That is pure folk theology!
Sounds like its a positive rather than a negative? The "scholars" are over rated to say the least, and have led many astray with their liberal "exegesis". Words like hermeneutics are just thrown around to impress people.

There is a rapture in 1 Thess 4:17. People are CAUGHT UP in the CLOUDS, lets go over the greek, it says the same exact thing in the greek. Clouds is Clouds, caught up is caught up and resurrection is a resurrection, no matter what the language.

Im glad to hear you do believe in hell.

It is very convenient the "allegorical aspects" dont really come out in the english, except for the early church fathers who understood and read koine greek better than any scholar alive today, who believed (up until Augustine and Origen) in a literal millenium, literal man of sin, who had YET TO BE REVEALED in the 2nd century, so AD 70 is a bust.
Irenaeus was talking about a future antichrist way after 70 AD.

Revelation is not written to scholars, its written to guys in plain language. The story is easy to follow, Revelation 19 Jesus is seen returning destroying the armies of the beast, throwing the false prophet and the beast in to the lake of fire. Then the story continues (no chapters existed as you know) when satan is bound for a thousand years. After this he is let out to deceive the nations Gog and Magog into battle, at which point Jesus destroys them and the second resurrection occurs, THEN the new heaven and earth is created. ALL in order, no mystery, no allegory there. Plain read it believe it material.

I like the amillennialist view and understand it, no problem, I just dont like dispensationalists being talked down to everywhere these days. Dispensationalism is a very serious method of interpretation and they got bible commentaries too, they can go thru the Bible no problem.

Me personally I dont care if you are amill or dispensational, both can be my brothers and sisters in Christ. I only wrote what I did because of the "folk theology" comment, got me fired up. Sorry about that guys.
 

Kolistus

Well-known member
Feb 3, 2020
538
273
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#51
Boy, anyone with this mindset when those things come to pass (Revelation 1:1) will be in for a rude awakening...
Yeah I just wrote a long response because the elitist mindset and talking down to people is really annoying, considering the Apostles were no scholars (aside from Paul)

Hermeneutics, scholars, greek, folk theology, we just dont understand we just arent educated enough. We need some guy who graduated from a university with a degree to tell us what it really means.

What university did Peter go to? He was a fisherman
 
Feb 29, 2020
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#52
What university did Peter go to? He was a fisherman
Yes.

And they were looked down upon as well:

Acts 4:13
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Those highly "educated" ones should meditate on this scripture:

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

1 Corinthians 3:18-20
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#53
Yes.

And they were looked down upon as well:

Acts 4:13
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Those highly "educated" ones should meditate on this scripture:

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

1 Corinthians 3:18-20
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
None of those texts, taken in their context prove or support your argument. :)
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#55
Well, in spite of your sarcastic response, honestly I don't think you do know. In fact I know you don't.

With all due respect this is exactly why you arrive at your error of losing salvation. You take verses out of context to arrive at your errant conclusions.
 
Feb 29, 2020
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#56
Well, in spite of your sarcastic response, honestly I don't think you do know. In fact I know you don't.

With all due respect this is exactly why you arrive at your error of losing salvation. You take verses out of context to arrive at your errant conclusions.
That's fine.

You can think what ever you want of me.

I have a good conscience before God.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#57
That's fine.

You can think what ever you want of me.

I have a good conscience before God.
This isn't personal or what I think about you as a person.

It is about whether or not you have proven your case with the scriptures you've used.

I'm claiming you are using them out of their intended context as proof of your argument that scholarship, study, intellectual ability are to be mitigated. None of your passages show this to be true.

Care to show me that the passages you've quoted are written for that intent and purpose?

No need to go ad hominem and tell me you don't care what I think about you, then claim your good conscience before God as if you've been martyred or something.

That said why be uptight, I'm just trying to show you the texts you've used don't prove your argument.

Let me end with this. No one should be proud or brag of themselves being unlearned when said are misusing and misapplying Scripture. "Unlearned" Peter would have never done this. :)
 
Feb 29, 2020
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#58
Care to show me that the passages you've quoted are written for that intent and purpose?
The context of what happened to the apostles by the "learned" scribes is clear in the one passage. The other two are self explanatory.

Why are you accusing me of mishandling the scriptures?

That's just your opinion, not a fact friend.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#60
The context of what happened to the apostles by the "learned" scribes is clear in the one passage. The other two are self explanatory.

Why are you accusing me of mishandling the scriptures?

That's just your opinion, not a fact friend.
Show me where they remained "unlearned."

Obviously they didn't remain there and were noted for their grasp of Scripture. In fact Peter rebuked persons who were unlearned and how they, due to being unlearned, misused Scripture. 2 Peter 3:16. Then in 3:18 he encourages scholarship by commanding growth in knowledge. He didn't hold to the proud ignorance society being propagated as spirituality.

So, this isn't just my opinion, it's actually Bible.

I'm still waiting for you to show me these passages are meant to mitigate scholarship and praise being unlearned. So far you've failed to do so.