Why do so many Christians end up in Hell?

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TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
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Merced, CA
I apologize for interjecting and am not speaking for anyone else. But it can be argued that people who rely on themselves to “maintain” their salvation, in fact do not have faith in Jesus, hence the proposition that such folks may not be saved.

It is my prayer that people with even just the tiniest mustard seed size of hope in Jesus are granted salvation.
Agreed. I do not believe as Deconman. I was only making some objective points to the statements. Catholics cant be saved due to relying on religion or saints to interced for them. This is not true gospel. Theresis the catholic popes religion Not Christs.

So objectively they believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. So that is why I questions DeCons view on salvation. It is too broad of a perspective and the bible clearly teaches otherwise.

Thank you for the response and I appreciate the respect. God bless you brother.
 

TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
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Merced, CA
I think you missed @dcontroversal point, which is this>>>>> what certain people (saved or not) believe about their own salvation as contrasted to what the bible plainly teaches.

And I would agree the objective truth is that salvation cannot be lost, given back, forfeited or maintained and the subjective belief ultimately has no bearing on reality (truth) except that they teach a false doctrine for which they are accountable.
I didnt miss the point he made. Im guessing everyone missed my point.

And there are always going to be 2 views when reading scripture. Those who have the Holy Spirit which leads us to all truth, which is the AUTHOR of the Bible. And then there are those who are carnal and even though they have eyes and ears they cannot see or hear the Word of God. To them it is veiled.

The bible teaches all children of God that He will not lose any of us. We are covered by the blood of Jesus. To claim there are different gospels or different faiths is absurd. There is one gospel and one truth and that truth is Jesus Christ. Anyone who has FOUND Christ remains in Him and He in the person. That person will not be lost.

What I am implying is that not all who have geard the gospel or done the sinners prayer or sat in a church or find themselves on this site are TRUE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. They are false sheep. They only know the Word they read the bible they go to church but THE TRUTH is not in them. They are modern day pharisees. Corrupting the flock and teaching false doctrine.

I have not misunderstood anything DeContravertial said. I disagree with his analogy of scripture. And totally against bigotry withing the body. To many noses in the air. That is not how people treat other people much less children of God. We have a higher standard then that to live up to. And that standard is JESUS CHRIST. Full of love full of grace full of truth. In Him is no deceit. So where are we falling short? We must examine ourselves. What image are we portraying? Do we mirror Christ? And if not then we need to take a step back... because we do not represent ourselves. If we wear the label Christian then that is who we represent.
 

Heyjude

Active member
Sep 7, 2019
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I don't think there's anyone in Hell yet because the resurrection for judgement hasn't happened yet. They are in the ground waiting for it. If everyone who died is already in heaven or hell then who will be resurrected to be judged? The graves would be empty of souls. And speaking of judgement, we can't know if a Christian will go to Hell because it's God's judgement to make. If he decides to have mercy on someone who in our eyes deserves hell, what is it to us? Everyone deserves hell!
Who are these people in Revelation? Are they dead or alive? If they are "special" people, like Martyrs, if they are dead, how can they cry out? Were Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration "dead or alive"? Or is Lazarus who was raised from the dead, dead again to be raised yet again?

Revelation 6:9-11 King James Version (KJV)

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:


10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?


11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
 

TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
545
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Merced, CA
One thing I have noticed with you....well maybe two....

a. You have very serious issue with associational context when it comes to understanding the entire post I made....
b. "A" above is due to your rose colored glasses....
Glad you took notice. I appreciate that. So when I take off these glasses, can you maybe clarify some of the points i pointed out.

Because I have also noticed from you that you dont answer hard questions.

A. Such as what is your gospel that you believe since you always mention yours is the true gospel and others is not. As if to say youre better than others? Which is not very nice of you, to be honest.. Atleast share the true gospel you have recieved and help save others, since your gospel saves and everyone elses is condemned and will not recieve salvation.

B. How do you discredit all other factions such as pentecostals, catholics, etc. If they have believed in the Son of God. You have made all valid points in scripture to suggest they have received salvation based on your principals. So how are they not valid? What makes them unworthy of salvation? According to you or according to scripture. However youd like to answer is fine with me.

C. Insults are unnecessary. Thank you.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,834
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We all are going through trials at certain points of our life when Satan makes requests of God to swift us and sadly many fall and do not stand up. Is it because they are lukewarm Christians or lacking of faith?
Hello GyO,

True- Satan can do nothing without permission from God.

Satan has been created to destroy our flesh hence, all the trials and tribulations to test our faith.

No worries, it’s good for us. All of God’s plans and purposes for us are good.

We just lack understanding that God is destroying our flesh. Ouch! I kind of wish He would hurry up with me! Lol. :giggle:

Enjoy the journey, you’re never alone, God is with us...just a prayer away... you are loved, not forsaken. :love:(y)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,057
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Who are these people in Revelation? Are they dead or alive? If they are "special" people, like Martyrs, if they are dead, how can they cry out? Were Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration "dead or alive"? Or is Lazarus who was raised from the dead, dead again to be raised yet again?

Revelation 6:9-11 King James Version (KJV)

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Do you understand that Revelation is John describing a VISION? And that the appearance of Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration was also a VISION?
 

Heyjude

Active member
Sep 7, 2019
277
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Do you understand that Revelation is John describing a VISION? And that the appearance of Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration was also a VISION?
There are some that believe Jesus when he said to the Thief of the Cross "
New King James Version
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” Luke 23.43.
Also, when Paul says he would rather be present with the Lord, he didnt sound like he was saying "some time hundreds of years in the future".

Many people believe different things about the life hereafter, but Jesus and his words on the Cross seem pretty clear spoken so there is not mistake. I don't go for all the explanations of "comma left out" or he was saying "today I say this too you". That doesn't even make any sense. Everyone knew it was today. It is like me saying " I am commenting on this thread today.....". Just silly. Jesus spoke words simply but you can say he didnt mean that exactly if you want, up to you.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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There are some that believe Jesus when he said to the Thief of the Cross "
New King James Version
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” Luke 23.43.
Also, when Paul says he would rather be present with the Lord, he didnt sound like he was saying "some time hundreds of years in the future".

Many people believe different things about the life hereafter, but Jesus and his words on the Cross seem pretty clear spoken so there is not mistake. I don't go for all the explanations of "comma left out" or he was saying "today I say this too you". That doesn't even make any sense. Everyone knew it was today. It is like me saying " I am commenting on this thread today.....". Just silly. Jesus spoke words simply but you can say he didnt mean that exactly if you want, up to you.
Jesus said it was a vision. I believe what He said :) The question now is, do you?
 

Heyjude

Active member
Sep 7, 2019
277
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Jesus said it was a vision. I believe what He said :) The question now is, do you?
That wasnt the question. The question was the one I asked before you did. But if you want to keep adding questions as an answer to a question, so will I. (In answer to the question asked by our Honourable Friend some moments ago" as they say in the House of Commons. Here are more questions on top of the questions I already asked if you like answering a question with a question.

How many Heavens are there?
What does "appeared in all his Glory mean?
And what are the circumstances of the departing of Elijah and Moses that were different to the others at the time when they "died"?

We can all ask questions on top of questions. But if you don't want to reply to my questions, neither need I reply to yours (with respect).

Elijah was taken up to heaven without dying; Moses died, but he was buried by God in an unknown grave, and his body was under the special care of Michael the archangel (Jude 1.9), and we know not that it saw corruption.

Luke adds, "who appeared in glory," radiant with the light which always accompanies heavenly visitors.

See the verse line of this. And the rest of it.

Luke 9.27-36.

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.


28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings
, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.


29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.


30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:


31 Who appeared in glory,
and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I understand what your are saying about the building on sand. But Jesus clealy says it is those who hear but do not "do" or "obey" what they hear. So although I understand what you are interpreting in this scripture, the bible is teaching that those who do not obey fall into this category.

This does not imply a persons salvation. There are many who have heard the gospel and suffer trials, and you are correct their faith may not be strong enough, but this does not mean they are not still being molded by God. Does not mean that they will not finish the good race.

You can label groups and religious beliefs or put people into categories but the scripture is for all who hear and do no obey. The storms come and everything is in great ruin. As opposed to those who follow what the bible teaches and stand firm on the Word those can have asurance of Gods faithfulness to stay true to His Word. Anyone else faces ruin.

Once again this has nothing to do whether or not someone belongs to God but rather how a person is living their life at any given time. Applies to all believers. We can choose to obey or be in disobedience and suffer. And since you have agreed with Decontravercial about those who are "saved" cannot lose grace, They wouldnt lose their inheritance, they would suffer ruin.

Being a Christian doesnt give us a guaranteed get out of jail free card by having faith in Christ and not doing what the bible teaches. They will suffer just like anyone else and will have to come to repentance and obey God. They would have built on sand and go thru the consequences but God will always be there to pick us up, forgive us and recieve us with open arms.

To anyone who has gone through storms and suffered great ruin to not lose or hope or be discouraged. God is great God is merciful. He asks for a repentant heart. He wants our willingness to follow Him and obey Him. He doesnt want us to suffer. There is still hope. Do not believe because you suffered for past decisions that you are not worthy to be a child of God. No one is worthy and we all fall short. Let God lead you.
The people who do not obey are those who have never recieved christ, and thus build on self (sand) or other religion.

Those who build on christ obey, because they have true living faith
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I didnt miss the point he made. Im guessing everyone missed my point.

And there are always going to be 2 views when reading scripture. Those who have the Holy Spirit which leads us to all truth, which is the AUTHOR of the Bible. And then there are those who are carnal and even though they have eyes and ears they cannot see or hear the Word of God. To them it is veiled.

The bible teaches all children of God that He will not lose any of us. We are covered by the blood of Jesus. To claim there are different gospels or different faiths is absurd. There is one gospel and one truth and that truth is Jesus Christ. Anyone who has FOUND Christ remains in Him and He in the person. That person will not be lost.

What I am implying is that not all who have geard the gospel or done the sinners prayer or sat in a church or find themselves on this site are TRUE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. They are false sheep. They only know the Word they read the bible they go to church but THE TRUTH is not in them. They are modern day pharisees. Corrupting the flock and teaching false doctrine.

I have not misunderstood anything DeContravertial said. I disagree with his analogy of scripture. And totally against bigotry withing the body. To many noses in the air. That is not how people treat other people much less children of God. We have a higher standard then that to live up to. And that standard is JESUS CHRIST. Full of love full of grace full of truth. In Him is no deceit. So where are we falling short? We must examine ourselves. What image are we portraying? Do we mirror Christ? And if not then we need to take a step back... because we do not represent ourselves. If we wear the label Christian then that is who we represent.
I really do not understand what you have written here completely since it seems you have changed your position.

All @dcontroversal and others are telling you is NOSAS a false doctrine.

I really do not see any bigotry in upholding the truth against false teachers.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
The people who do not obey are those who have never recieved christ, and thus build on self (sand) or other religion.

Those who build on christ obey, because they have true living faith
I like to look at this this way.... @dcontroversal

"ALL believers have worked the works of the Heavenly Father in belief and then.....to the ones that WORK NOT, but believeth in him that justifies the ungodly his FAITH is credited as righteousness......"

In belief we have obeyed already.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Based on everything youve stated even the believers who do works are also saved. Not otherwise like you state. If you believe you are saved and you cannot lose your salvation. So why would people who do works lose their salvation?

Kind of ironic to be peddling that catholics wont be saved? If they believe and choose to do works doesnt change Gods grace and mercy.

Why do you contradict your own belief by saying the ones who do works wont be saved? Salvation losers as you called them. How is that so? Does doing works cause someone to lose their salvation? That contradicts everything you said. Not sure I get where the logic goes with that one?
Being a Christian doesnt give us a guaranteed get out of jail free card by having faith in Christ and not doing what the bible teaches.
What is it you really believe?

I find when people follow NOSAS doctrine they typically end up in contradiction, are were eternally saved apart from works and/or the number of sins or not?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,057
14,994
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That wasnt the question. The question was the one I asked before you did. But if you want to keep adding questions as an answer to a question, so will I. (In answer to the question asked by our Honourable Friend some moments ago" as they say in the House of Commons. Here are more questions on top of the questions I already asked if you like answering a question with a question.

How many Heavens are there?
What does "appeared in all his Glory mean?
And what are the circumstances of the departing of Elijah and Moses that were different to the others at the time when they "died"?

We can all ask questions on top of questions. But if you don't want to reply to my questions, neither need I reply to yours (with respect).

Elijah was taken up to heaven without dying; Moses died, but he was buried by God in an unknown grave, and his body was under the special care of Michael the archangel (Jude 1.9), and we know not that it saw corruption.

Luke adds, "who appeared in glory," radiant with the light which always accompanies heavenly visitors.

See the verse line of this. And the rest of it.

Luke 9.27-36.

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.


28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.


29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.


30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
If you do not understand what visions are, I do not see much point in answering your subsequent questions, since you originally asked about circumstances shown in visions, and have thus far refused to acknowledge them as such.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Agreed. I do not believe as Deconman. I was only making some objective points to the statements. Catholics cant be saved due to relying on religion or saints to interced for them. This is not true gospel. Theresis the catholic popes religion Not Christs.

So objectively they believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. So that is why I questions DeCons view on salvation. It is too broad of a perspective and the bible clearly teaches otherwise.

Thank you for the response and I appreciate the respect. God bless you brother.
Believing that Christ Jesus is the Son of God is only part of the Gospel message, so better you understand exactly what @dcontroversal was stating before arguing he is wrong.

Because basically you are attacking a "straw man" as they like to say so much on here.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I didnt miss the point he made. Im guessing everyone missed my point.

And there are always going to be 2 views when reading scripture. Those who have the Holy Spirit which leads us to all truth, which is the AUTHOR of the Bible. And then there are those who are carnal and even though they have eyes and ears they cannot see or hear the Word of God. To them it is veiled.

The bible teaches all children of God that He will not lose any of us. We are covered by the blood of Jesus. To claim there are different gospels or different faiths is absurd. There is one gospel and one truth and that truth is Jesus Christ. Anyone who has FOUND Christ remains in Him and He in the person. That person will not be lost.

What I am implying is that not all who have geard the gospel or done the sinners prayer or sat in a church or find themselves on this site are TRUE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. They are false sheep. They only know the Word they read the bible they go to church but THE TRUTH is not in them. They are modern day pharisees. Corrupting the flock and teaching false doctrine.

I have not misunderstood anything DeContravertial said. I disagree with his analogy of scripture. And totally against bigotry withing the body. To many noses in the air. That is not how people treat other people much less children of God. We have a higher standard then that to live up to. And that standard is JESUS CHRIST. Full of love full of grace full of truth. In Him is no deceit. So where are we falling short? We must examine ourselves. What image are we portraying? Do we mirror Christ? And if not then we need to take a step back... because we do not represent ourselves. If we wear the label Christian then that is who we represent.
You obviously are not that bright or understand the bible...there is one gospel of salvation, not 2, 3 or 40.....and the bible is clear....to embellish the gospel with anything beyond FAITH ALONE voids the gospel....but you go ahead and keep believing there are numerous gospels hypocrite.....I caught the little word play on my name.....!!

See how the plenteous in number group works out for those religions that embellish the gospel beyond faith.....I fully expect you to not grasp the truth or point...!!
 

tumeric

Junior Member
Apr 1, 2015
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WAS JESUS THE CHRIST QUOTED AS SAYING ""JUDGE NOT SO THAT YOU WILL NOT BE JUDGED "" / I AM A SINNER AND I HOPE THE LORD WILL FORGIVE ME AND HAVE MERCY AND COMPASSION ON ALL OF US SINNERS
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,179
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I didnt miss the point he made. Im guessing everyone missed my point.

And there are always going to be 2 views when reading scripture. Those who have the Holy Spirit which leads us to all truth, which is the AUTHOR of the Bible. And then there are those who are carnal and even though they have eyes and ears they cannot see or hear the Word of God. To them it is veiled.

The bible teaches all children of God that He will not lose any of us. We are covered by the blood of Jesus. To claim there are different gospels or different faiths is absurd. There is one gospel and one truth and that truth is Jesus Christ. Anyone who has FOUND Christ remains in Him and He in the person. That person will not be lost.

What I am implying is that not all who have geard the gospel or done the sinners prayer or sat in a church or find themselves on this site are TRUE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. They are false sheep. They only know the Word they read the bible they go to church but THE TRUTH is not in them. They are modern day pharisees. Corrupting the flock and teaching false doctrine.

I have not misunderstood anything DeContravertial said. I disagree with his analogy of scripture. And totally against bigotry withing the body. To many noses in the air. That is not how people treat other people much less children of God. We have a higher standard then that to live up to. And that standard is JESUS CHRIST. Full of love full of grace full of truth. In Him is no deceit. So where are we falling short? We must examine ourselves. What image are we portraying? Do we mirror Christ? And if not then we need to take a step back... because we do not represent ourselves. If we wear the label Christian then that is who we represent.
One thing is fact, by this post, you have no idea what @dcontroversal believes
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,179
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I really do not understand what you have written here completely since it seems you have changed your position.

All @dcontroversal and others are telling you is NOSAS a false doctrine.

I really do not see any bigotry in upholding the truth against false teachers.
What is he so confused about? Lol
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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What I am implying is that not all who have geard the gospel or done the sinners prayer or sat in a church or find themselves on this site are TRUE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. They are false sheep. They only know the Word they read the bible they go to church but THE TRUTH is not in them. They are modern day pharisees. Corrupting the flock and teaching false doctrine.
You’ve described yourself perfectly. Now rather than getting mad and responding with more arrogance and condemnation, you should pray, asking God to bring clarity to you regarding His saving grace which is afforded to everyone who has faith in Jesus Christ.

You talk about people reading Scripture but not receiving the truth. The truth is you read Jesus’s words regarding people shutting out the kingdom of heaven against others, not going in themselves or letting others enter. You do precisely that. Where is God’s grace in your theology? Again, I encourage you to pray for clarity. I too will be praying for you.