Will the real second Pentecost please stand up

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ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#61
There are the mockers ... you are something different, you have fallen out with God over some matter.
Ad Hominem attack, always the last resort.

I have nothing against you; I like you personally. If the target of my criticism happens to be the religion you hold dear, I'm sorry. It's not personal.

Even if a few people did mock in Acts 2 and say they were drunk, the passage doesn't suggest in any fashion whatsoever that they were acting drunk or behaving like Kenneth Hagin and his crew is this video. Is this what being drunk with the spirit is supposed to look like? As I watched this I asked myself: What's so funny? It's sad more than anything.

 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,310
469
83
#62
In the 1950s God cleared out western christianity from China, in one sweep they were gone.

Then God poured out His Holy Spirit and they have had Pentecostal revival ever since, millions have been saved. There are more christians in China today than in America.

If the Pentecostals had not come along Evangelicalism in America would be dead in the water by now. Wake up.
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You traverse land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."—Matthew 23:15
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
3,962
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#63
remember wherever the people lack faith they don’t see the mighty works

“And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:58‬ ‭

Jesus is able in every circumstance to work through and for us but a lack of faith stifles the gospel because it’s 100 percent about hearing and believing

“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭

remember they hadn’t received the Holy Spirit until Paul told them about it because they hadn’t heard there was such a thing as the Holy Spirit. Faith requires us to Hear and believe the gospel
really? The bible does not say "happy are you who sorrow now for you shall laugh" ? there is no harm in having our mouths filled with laughter.
Godly laughter in the Holy Spirit is so joyful and liberating -religion hates it.

When the Lord brought back the captivity of Zion,
We were like those who dream.

Then our mouth was filled with laughter,
And our tongue with singing.
Then they said among the nations,
“The Lord has done great things for them.”
The Lord has done great things for us,
And we are glad.
Psalm 126
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
3,549
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#64
AMEN and i have known this for many a years and share with many -
unbelief causes the Dove to fly right over their head because there is no resting place for Him in unbelief

Notice what the Scripture says: Then John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him

The Holy Spirit comes as Dove - not a force - non threatening - and will only descend upon the person who is willing to receive Him.

When it happens - REST

note: if you see HS7 in my posts = this is my abbreviation for Holy Spirit
amen I think it has to do a lot with brotherly Love active in each other’s lives. Churches are Meant to be gathering places for Gods children in peace to Hear his word, care about each other’s lives , interceded where we can to bear one another’s burdens , be the “ Good Samaritan “ kind of folks who care for each other and the other potential lost in the world.


sort of


“And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

with faith , goes true kingdom love In and among the church and we fall away ( as a church and body ) seeing Gifts poured out of the spiritual things for the sake of the body when even few come together in brotherly love you have unity and a body forms , a habitation for the Holy Ghost to administer gifts among the group for the growth of the body being edifies and unified

we have lost sight of the church I fear , losing sight of the gospel of the kingdom that is preached until the end.

“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:20-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think the church is lacking love for one another we’ve isolated our selves made our own world , and forgotten the fist command to love one another and be as a body and group bearing each other’s burdens and sharing with the needy out of our more than enough.

“For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another…. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:11, 16-19‬ ‭

I think that each church group is different and I only have my own experiences in around 50 years but it seems like we have drifted far apart and let many divisions and doctrines create a kingdom very divided. And many individual Christians still remember to love others but as a group a body across all the world we are failing miserably in brotherly love while succeeding in corporate finance worlds in the name of Jesus ? I don’t think we’re gonna see outpourings and miracles until we’re walking as a church
 

SomeDisciple

Active member
Jul 4, 2021
342
183
43
#65
I can't honestly say I know what is going on in Pentecostal churches. I'd say i've been to maybe 50 pentecostal gatherings, and in about half of them the preacher is cheerleading. And if the church doesn't respond the way he wants, he just rebukes the church until everyone starts speaking in tongues. Not exactly edifying.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
3,962
1,178
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#66
I can't honestly say I know what is going on in Pentecostal churches. I'd say i've been to maybe 50 pentecostal gatherings, and in about half of them the preacher is cheerleading. And if the church doesn't respond the way he wants, he just rebukes the church until everyone starts speaking in tongues. Not exactly edifying.
i agree fully, but never lose sight that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are Precious to God and His Bride - They are Wedding Gifts.

i received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and i stay away from the razzle dazzle show.

But definitely seek Acts 1 - it is the Promise of the Father to those who seek Him for IT.

Most every church has its problems - i have been to many different ones - they go from dead to stuffy religious to the hoopla.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,733
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London
#67
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You traverse land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."—Matthew 23:15
single convert? Africa has been transformed by the gospel, whole provinces in China have been swept into the kingdom. And they are beautiful radiant christians ready to suffer for their faith, opposed by Islam in one case and the communist party in the other.

Why are you so bitter against the Lord and His servants?
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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London
#68
Ad Hominem attack, always the last resort.

I have nothing against you; I like you personally. If the target of my criticism happens to be the religion you hold dear, I'm sorry. It's not personal.

Even if a few people did mock in Acts 2 and say they were drunk, the passage doesn't suggest in any fashion whatsoever that they were acting drunk or behaving like Kenneth Hagin and his crew is this video. Is this what being drunk with the spirit is supposed to look like? As I watched this I asked myself: What's so funny? It's sad more than anything.

It never occurred to you that God doesn't want you among such people? God's people always seem vile to the religious spirit.

... I am not endorsing Kenneth Hagin.

The real pentecostal/charismatic movement are the local assemblies.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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London
#69
I know where i come from. JESUS saved me in the age of 25, coming from protestant Background, mother was RC, thought i would be a Christian because of baby baptised, till i met real Christians which showed me what the bible says. Later I met pentecostals and charismatics, which told me i have to be baptised with the Holy Spirit for get more Power and to get a closer relationship to God, my father. Since i am saved by the Lord and recived the Holy Spirit i got the gift of discern the Spirits. Not everything whats called it is from God is realy from God. I met Christians which believe in people who teach false doctrines without realize them as wrong teaching.
So you received the gift of discernment of spirits ... but the other gifts are ceased is that it?
 

Aidan1

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2021
1,457
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#70
So you received the gift of discernment of spirits ... but the other gifts are ceased is that it?
Well, the so called sign gifts, which is healing, prophecie and speaking in tongues as they are discribed in the church of corinth are however endet. Special the teaching that speaking in tongues is the Prof that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit was never taught in the bible to believers, but is since 1900 taught in the most pentecostal and charismatic movements.
That healing and prophecie is used from God today i cant deney. But it is not anymore as it was in the days of the apostles.
Also it can be that God is uesing speaking in tongues ( a language that others can understand). Special in Mission ministrie.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,733
1,039
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London
#71
Well, the so called sign gifts, which is healing, prophecie and speaking in tongues as they are discribed in the church of corinth are however endet. Special the teaching that speaking in tongues is the Prof that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit was never taught in the bible to believers, but is since 1900 taught in the most pentecostal and charismatic movements.
That healing and prophecie is used from God today i cant deney. But it is not anymore as it was in the days of the apostles.
Also it can be that God is uesing speaking in tongues ( a language that others can understand). Special in Mission ministrie.
you can't deny. Nor can Alien deny, he just attacks those through who the gifts are being manifest.

Many things in the church today are not as they were in the apostle's day, folks are not getting saved as they did in the apostles day [multitudes] except among the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches, but I expect you don't like mega church.

Where is God sending the prostitutes and the dope addicts to get saved? your church? will they get saved there?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,686
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#72
Are believers, today, given gifts of power through the Holy Spirit?
If ÿou speak Indonesian you can watch a lot of testimony how Muslim convert and accept Jesus because of miracle.
One of them is viral now. He is in prison because Muslim angry he bring a lot of Muslim to Christ because miracle and he use Quran to prove Jesus is God. His name is mohamat kece. People on media online talk about him now because Muslim inmate persecute him on prison and no guard help him, they set it up. Police cover it up and not let people visit him, Till ex Muslim Christian layer threaten to sue police if they let him visit. Then that lawyer saw on CCTV recording from good police how people torture him.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,733
1,039
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London
#73
Ad Hominem attack, always the last resort.

I have nothing against you; I like you personally. If the target of my criticism happens to be the religion you hold dear, I'm sorry. It's not personal.

Even if a few people did mock in Acts 2 and say they were drunk, the passage doesn't suggest in any fashion whatsoever that they were acting drunk or behaving like Kenneth Hagin and his crew is this video. Is this what being drunk with the spirit is supposed to look like? As I watched this I asked myself: What's so funny? It's sad more than anything.

But then you even attack John Wesley, what's up? did you expect when you were younger that God would use you in some big way? mebbe words were spoken that you took to be a calling but the years have gone by. You tried your best to be worthy, to be clean for the Lord.

And you look at these other servants and see their frailties and mistakes and yet God has used them.
 

Aidan1

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2021
1,457
652
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#74
you can't deny. Nor can Alien deny, he just attacks those through who the gifts are being manifest.

Many things in the church today are not as they were in the apostle's day, folks are not getting saved as they did in the apostles day [multitudes] except among the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches, but I expect you don't like mega church.

Where is God sending the prostitutes and the dope addicts to get saved? your church? will they get saved there?
I dont talking about salvation. I talked about the gifts you asked about. The Lords call whom he will and he is uesing his people to spread the good news.
My church? The leaders are seems open for charismatic teachings, I am not agree with there view of church, they dont work among addictet and prostitute or poor people.
But finaly people come to know Jesus whereever the gospel is preached.

I like all kind of churches as so long the bible is preached as word of God and it is not misuesed for Man caused doctrines and is manipulate the believers.
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,355
531
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#75
Charles Fox Parham claimed in 1901 that the outpouring of the "Holy Spirit" at his Bethel Bible College in Topeka, Kansas, was the first outpouring of the gifts of the Spirit since the first Pentecost.

However, early in 1900, Frank Sandford was claiming the same thing had happened at his Shiloh community in Maine. In a Bangor Daily News article dated January 8, 1900, Sandford claims that the gifts of prophecy and tongues had been given to 120 people at Shiloh.

View attachment 231681

It's known that Parham had visited Sandford at Shiloh in 1900 after hearing of the outbreak there. If Parham's "outpouring" wasn't the first, as he claimed, then we have a couple of very serious problems: 1) Parham was a liar; 2) The religion claiming to trace its origins to Parham is based on a lie. Both of these are fairly disturbing.

The full video from which I grabbed this image is below.

this is an advertisment to sell and promote a John andrew collins book and at the same get more subscribers. Collins has written more than 80 books for 25 publishers. Those books have sold almost 2.5 million copies. Its a huge buisness promoting and advertisers will pay alot of money. authors like andrew collins make huge amounts of money writing books of criticism on popular subjects. The two people in this video probably dont even care what the pentecost church does or doesnt do. and its the same for all theese other videos, thats being posted. its sombody getting rich and nothing to with the real people of the pentecost church. its sad and it happens every where. If you get enough youtube subscribers you can become rich. look at there long list of subscribers on popular subjects of the church under a popular name of long for the truth. they could be just somebody else making money of the church..
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,355
531
113
#76
Ad Hominem attack, always the last resort.

I have nothing against you; I like you personally. If the target of my criticism happens to be the religion you hold dear, I'm sorry. It's not personal.

Even if a few people did mock in Acts 2 and say they were drunk, the passage doesn't suggest in any fashion whatsoever that they were acting drunk or behaving like Kenneth Hagin and his crew is this video. Is this what being drunk with the spirit is supposed to look like? As I watched this I asked myself: What's so funny? It's sad more than anything.

You Know you should be checking the profile of all the youtube vids your posting because the promotors of this video is addicted to proving where in end times and again probably cares nothing for the real people of the pentecost church. these kinda of peole can be seariously mad and lead people to go mad to
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,310
469
83
#77
single convert? Africa has been transformed by the gospel, whole provinces in China have been swept into the kingdom. And they are beautiful radiant christians ready to suffer for their faith, opposed by Islam in one case and the communist party in the other.

Why are you so bitter against the Lord and His servants?
There reason you can't comprehend my words is probably because no one has ever directly confronted you with the facts. I pray you'll come around.

"Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word."—John 8:43
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,310
469
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#78
But then you even attack John Wesley, what's up?
Did you look into my criticisms of John Wesley? What did you find? What did you find that was incorrect? Post your findings and sources, then we can talk.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,310
469
83
#79
this is an advertisment to sell and promote a John andrew collins book and at the same get more subscribers. Collins has written more than 80 books for 25 publishers. Those books have sold almost 2.5 million copies. Its a huge buisness promoting and advertisers will pay alot of money. authors like andrew collins make huge amounts of money writing books of criticism on popular subjects. The two people in this video probably dont even care what the pentecost church does or doesnt do. and its the same for all theese other videos, thats being posted. its sombody getting rich and nothing to with the real people of the pentecost church. its sad and it happens every where. If you get enough youtube subscribers you can become rich. look at there long list of subscribers on popular subjects of the church under a popular name of long for the truth. they could be just somebody else making money of the church..
The reason I posted the video was to show where I got the newspaper image that shows Frank Sanford claiming the Spirit was poured out at his community and 120 people spoke in tongues, just like Pentecost.

Your post is an attempt to deflect from the facts, which can't be denied. I'm not debating the merits of John Collins; I'm showing evidence that backs my position.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,310
469
83
#80
You Know you should be checking the profile of all the youtube vids your posting because the promotors of this video is addicted to proving where in end times and again probably cares nothing for the real people of the pentecost church. these kinda of peole can be seariously mad and lead people to go mad to
You seem to be as immune to facts as Evmur.