would it have been better if

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
11,358
4,646
113
#21
They are generated at conception. We are not from infinity past like God is. (But we will persist into eternity future.)

We must now choose the destination. He certainly does not want anyone to go into hell, but He cannot let them into Heaven if they refuse to let Him prepare them properly.
amen it’s not “ I’m going to toss you into hell “ it’s “ hear me and believe because i don’t want you to go there by nt his terrible place I’m telling you about “

we have to choose because he gave us the choice by informing us of the end to come. He’s trying to save us from that place not send us there he’s made a way out because all we’re doomed beforehand now we can be saved from the fate we chose before by repenting and believing the gospel

it’s not God trying to condemn us he’s trying to save us from the condemnation we already deserve by the law
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,833
8,665
113
#22
I shudder when I think of the wicked person I used to be. Thank you Jesus for saving my wretched soul.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,066
1,336
113
#23
I thought all of us , our souls came down from heaven. How is it that we would be worse off if we weren't born when before being born we were happy? Am I wrong that we came from heaven? Did we start existing only ones we took our first breath on earth...before that we didn't exist?
life starts at birth.. When God breaths the breath of life. our soul is created.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,538
560
113
#24
If God actually wiped out all humanity instead of saving Noah and thus all of us are proliferating and alive and sinning and according to some, being thrown into hell unless we believe when we are alive in this temporary life which will judge our eternity
We can't see nor comprehend the love the Father has for this world. when God came down to see if the cries he heard from the of Sodom and Gomorrah we're true. He said to Lot "as long as you are here I can do nothing". " Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God. ". there was no way God could wipe out all of man. Then all were not man for Angels had already come down taken women had children, we don't know if that was a few 1000 or billions. There every thought was evil. Most of them were never meant to be.

See this is not the way it was supposed to be. God didn't sin we did. We gave over to Satan what got made gave us. This world belongs to Satan who is the god of. Anyway God is a plan for God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,055
944
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#25
.
Something that baffles me is that according to Rev 13:8, Christ was put on
schedule to die for the sins of the world before the world even existed. In
other words; God knew in advance that the people He was about to create
would become incorrigible yet went ahead and made them anyway.
_
 

Scarlett7297

Active member
Mar 28, 2020
119
36
28
#26
would it be better for a person to never exist than to be given a chance to have eternal life ?

it’s not Gods fault that mankind won’t hear him and respond. He went as far as crucifying his begotten innocent son in mans place and said now “use the time I’ve allowed you to have even though you chose death instead of me , use your time to find me and I will give you everlasting life “

it would be better if mankind had just believed tbier creator then all this wouldn’t be so. Death isn’t Gods plan for us life is and slavery isn’t his plan for us , repentance and free Will is . Choosing the good and living beyond death is

it’s only because of his forebearance and patience and love for mankind that he hasn’t destroyed everyone’s Hope to Be saved

your question is a bitter one towards god it seems would it be better for humanity to be destroyed rather than offering them a Hope of salvation and eternal Life ?

Hell is a place we’re Warned about in order to avoid going there , heaven is a place we’re told about in order to show us the way there

either way after our earthly life concludes we have to continue on where we have freely chosen to go
I don't think it is bitterness to God but the thought that how can a person who loves their neighbor as themselves be okay if that person is lost to hell after death forever? Would that person not rather pray that that person is given another chance? We come across Muslims and Hindus and people of other religion we smile at , sometimes try to bring them to Christ by way of our actions or by telling them the gospel and pray for them. They smile back, we smile back....then one of them dies in a bike crash the next day and you know they were a Muslim who did not believe in Jesus. You are okay with the thought that they are in hell? You are not going to pray that perchance there should be a way even after they died that God makes Himself and His gospel known to this person. Are you going to give me a verse about the rich person who ended up in hades, about how he wanted to send that poor man back to life so that his loved ones are saved only to be told that if they didn't listen to Moses and the prophets, they wouldn't believe him too.
Luke 16
for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”
 

Scarlett7297

Active member
Mar 28, 2020
119
36
28
#27
They are generated at conception. We are not from infinity past like God is. (But we will persist into eternity future.)

We must now choose the destination. He certainly does not want anyone to go into hell, but He cannot let them into Heaven if they refuse to let Him prepare them properly.
“I knew you before I formed you in your mother’s womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations.”
Jeremiah 1:5
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,048
651
113
#28
.
Something that baffles me is that according to Rev 13:8, Christ was put on
schedule to die for the sins of the world before the world even existed. In
other words; God knew in advance that the people He was about to create
would become incorrigible yet went ahead and made them anyway.
_
What amazes me even more, is that mankind actually executed the person who created them!

It gives you a deeper understanding of the thoughts and intent of the human heart.

I have a very low view of humanity.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,048
651
113
#29
If God actually wiped out all humanity instead of saving Noah and thus all of us are proliferating and alive and sinning and according to some, being thrown into hell unless we believe when we are alive in this temporary life which will judge our eternity
This question can only be answered by God Himself.

One problem we have, is that we do not know if hell is an eternal abode or not.

I have read debates on this and it usually ends up with a debate about word meaning.

I just rely on Jesus to take care of His creation, it's rely not my business.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
8,918
4,831
113
#30
“I knew you before I formed you in your mother’s womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations.”
Jeremiah 1:5
I see that verse as God indicating that He is outside of time (so can know us before we are conceived), not that we pre-exist our conceptions. When Jesus said to the Jews "Before Abraham was, I AM", they tried to stone Him, because if He wasn't God, it would have been blasphemy.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
4,782
2,484
113
London
christianchat.com
#31
I don' know about others, but I refuse to accept a pessimistic view of either mankind or God. Walk through a grocery store and watch young mothers with their children. Watch men going to work trying to build something for future generations. Watch police officers going down dark alleys risking everything to keep others safe. Watch a soldier or remember their sacrifice. Remember those Saints of the past who gave all that we might better understand the grace of our lord. Look into a newborns eyes as they are reaching out to touch the world. Evil is real and it does exist, but life is so much more.

View attachment 244241
This is a brand new phrase created by ME. I coined it to explain what God is doing with mankind

He is "meeking out" mankind.

And your post describes it PERFECTLY.

I am a [or was] a butcher by trade, have you ever seen a whole topside of beef, it's about 15-20 lbs heart shape lump of lovely beef. Normally it is sliced into 3 and rolled up for roasting, the corner cut the centre cut and the end cut.

Imagine this whole topside as the GOSPEL. It has been divided into 3 but the centre cut has been removed and the end cut has been joined to the corner cut ... that's lovely, you can feast away on that, everything about it is acceptable. But where is the centre cut?

It's been taken away.

The centre cut IS the actual kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is the kingdom which Jesus will usher in when He comes back, He is going to reign on earth with His saints. A kingdom of righteousness and peace and prosperity for EVERYONE who will submit to it.

We preach eternal heaven, that's great that's where we's going, and we preach heaven on earth now in believing the gospel, that's great too.

But what we have now is simply the foretaste of what is to come here on earth when Jesus comes. It's what the WHOLE world longs for, this is what won souls in the early church, a Kingdom of righteousness, peace and prosperity, for everyone who believes and best of all with a King of Love in charge, Jesus our Lord.

The MEEK shall inherit the earth. God is meeking mankind out.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,362
2,105
113
#34
This question can only be answered by God Himself.

One problem we have, is that we do not know if hell is an eternal abode or not.

I have read debates on this and it usually ends up with a debate about word meaning.

I just rely on Jesus to take care of His creation, it's rely not my business.
Yeah....
I read a few myself....
I discovered a few things and made a determination. The definitive answer for me never came from those debates. It came from the very nature or attributes of God which very much are absolutes.
Then I went back and analyzed the key passages for what was said and how it was said and why it was said. (Scriptures)

It takes time to go through it all and get an exegesis instead of an eisegesis. Diagramming the sentences helps.

Arts and sciences blended together....then God enjoys being difficult at times as well.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,833
8,665
113
#35
“I knew you before I formed you in your mother’s womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations.”
Jeremiah 1:5
I see that verse as God indicating that He is outside of time (so can know us before we are conceived), not that we pre-exist our conceptions. When Jesus said to the Jews "Before Abraham was, I AM", they tried to stone Him, because if He wasn't God, it would have been blasphemy.
Amen.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
54,383
25,260
113
#36
Yeah....
I read a few myself....
I discovered a few things and made a determination. The definitive answer for me never came from those debates. It came from the very nature or attributes of God which very much are absolutes.
Then I went back and analyzed the key passages for what was said and how it was said and why it was said. (Scriptures)

It takes time to go through it all and get an exegesis instead of an eisegesis. Diagramming the sentences helps.

Arts and sciences blended together....then God enjoys being difficult at times as well.
I liked your answer right until the very last thought, and then... eh??? LOL
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,362
2,105
113
#37
I liked your answer right until the very last thought, and then... eh??? LOL
The description of the process called hermeneutics. Sorry about that...I skip things I think are common knowledge. They often aren't but I view them as such.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
54,383
25,260
113
#38
The description of the process called hermeneutics. Sorry about that...I skip things
I think are common knowledge. They often aren't but I view them as such.
Yes, I understood and agreed with that part... it was the "God enjoys
being difficult at times as well"
part where I went, eh??? ;):D

That was the last part of your post... :geek:
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,362
2,105
113
#39
I liked your answer right until the very last thought, and then... eh??? LOL
Or were you referring to "God being difficult at times"?

God doesn't want to always have complete clarity in everything...for a good reason.

If He did, then the recognition of Jesus by prophesy by the Rabbi and Levites would have not gone the way it did.
(That's just one example...Revelations is another)

God keeps his "secret things" to himself. Other things He wants revealed but only to a few people.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#40
What i believe is missing here is the understanding that God is a redeemer not a make over.
Yes at the end there will be a new heaven and a new earth but that is after all that can be redeemed and restored is accomplished.
His very nature and very name is redeemer....his promises of redemption are his works of glory.
If GOD destroyed all of mankind...and destroyed satan in the process then his truth becomes a fable a story told with no evidences.
Before the foundations of the world God knew redemption was needed...thus JESUS was already to do just that.

Gods truth is tried and tested..."see that it isnt so" ....with GOD all things are possible....but without God....you can do nothing.
Evil is in the hearts of all of mankind thats where it starts. God wants to give us a new heart...to transform our minds.
He does this by faith and hope which he gives everyone that ask. Acting on our faith brings a greater hope that grows our Faith. Taste and see that the Lord is good.
Some dont want to believe, dont want to listen, they want to become their own god. Which brings a seared consciousness which is reprobate. Evil continuous.