All American Tree Burned and Built Again

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K

kaylagrl

Guest
#1
There has been a rash of Christmas tree burnings here lately. The most famous is the All American Christmas tree that was burned in front of FOX News studios. At the re-lighting of the second tree three men of faith spoke, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, Rabbi Joseph Potasnik, Fox News contributor Reverend Jacques DeGraff. They gave a stirring message of unity and brought tears to my eyes to see them down on the streets of NYC praying and saying the name of God and Jesus in such a Godless place. It didn't take long for leftist to throw shade and pretty much say that FOX News deserved for such a thing to happen. smh What has happened to America, that a simple Christmas tree seems to cause a threat to people? It's unreal.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/fox-news-media-all-american-christmas-tree-returns



P.S. If you don't celebrate Christs birth please move on, this is not a discussion on that subject. This is news story about a Christmas tree.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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#2
P.S. If you don't celebrate Christs birth please move on, this is not a discussion on that subject. This is news story about a Christmas tree.
I'm sorry, I don't mind if you want to talk about Christmas trees but I do have an issue with you saying that a Christmas tree has anything to do with celebrating Jesus' birth. The bible is very clear, it is a pagan practice, the history of it is very clear it is a pagan practice. The Christmas tree is on a scale from vanity at one end all the way to idol worship on the other. But nowhere on that scale does it have anything to do with Christ's birth.
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
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#3
I'm not sure why folks are weeping over an idol but, okay. 🤷‍♀️
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,475
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#4
I'm sorry, I don't mind if you want to talk about Christmas trees but I do have an issue with you saying that a Christmas tree has anything to do with celebrating Jesus' birth. The bible is very clear, it is a pagan practice, the history of it is very clear it is a pagan practice. The Christmas tree is on a scale from vanity at one end all the way to idol worship on the other. But nowhere on that scale does it have anything to do with Christ's birth.
Your view is the sad view of many professed Christians. However, IF you truly despise recognizing any pagan days/rituals, then you need to move somewhere in the far deserts or forrests of your country and take up residence.

Every day, every month, and every year has SOME relation to paganism........

As for the Christmas Tree and Jesus/God/Christianity, consider this:

(excerpt)

Some Christians shun the Christmas tree as inappropriate or even ungodly because of its long association with pagan usage. This writer sees the Christmas tree as a Biblically sound tradition that represents a significant victory for Christendom over paganism.

The origins of many of our traditions are often obscured by centuries or millennia of customs from a multitude of sources. There is usually not one history of such practices, but rather a complex set of many histories that blend into a modern usage. The Christmas tree is one such custom. Some believe it to be a very pagan symbol inappropriate for a Christian celebration. Others see it as an important part of Christmas celebration. Both views, in fact, can be correct. The tree has a long history of use in both pagan and Christian representations of life. These conflicting representations are, in fact, represented in Scripture itself.

(here)

The Christian Christmas Tree - Chalcedon
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
33,550
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#5
Your view is the sad view of many professed Christians. However, IF you truly despise recognizing any pagan days/rituals, then you need to move somewhere in the far deserts or forrests of your country and take up residence.

Every day, every month, and every year has SOME relation to paganism........

As for the Christmas Tree and Jesus/God/Christianity, consider this:

(excerpt)

Some Christians shun the Christmas tree as inappropriate or even ungodly because of its long association with pagan usage. This writer sees the Christmas tree as a Biblically sound tradition that represents a significant victory for Christendom over paganism.

The origins of many of our traditions are often obscured by centuries or millennia of customs from a multitude of sources. There is usually not one history of such practices, but rather a complex set of many histories that blend into a modern usage. The Christmas tree is one such custom. Some believe it to be a very pagan symbol inappropriate for a Christian celebration. Others see it as an important part of Christmas celebration. Both views, in fact, can be correct. The tree has a long history of use in both pagan and Christian representations of life. These conflicting representations are, in fact, represented in Scripture itself.

(here)

The Christian Christmas Tree - Chalcedon
I am well aware that our world is filled with pagan rituals and celebrations. I have no issue with Fox news having a Christmas tree nor do I have any issue with people being upset about the blatant violence involved in burning it down and the obvious issue of this man in need of mental health services being out on the street.

The issue I took was saying that the discussion of this tree was for people who believed in the birth of Jesus Christ. The Christmas tree has nothing to do with Jesus Christ's birth, Jeremiah makes that very clear.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#6
I'm sorry, I don't mind if you want to talk about Christmas trees but I do have an issue with you saying that a Christmas tree has anything to do with celebrating Jesus' birth. The bible is very clear, it is a pagan practice, the history of it is very clear it is a pagan practice. The Christmas tree is on a scale from vanity at one end all the way to idol worship on the other. But nowhere on that scale does it have anything to do with Christ's birth.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. ;) I certainly don't idolize a tree. No where do I see the Bible is speaking of a Christmas tree. But let's stay on subject, which is the burning of a tree that is associated in the worlds mind as a Christian symbol, one which they wish to destroy, whatever you feel about that symbol.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#7
I'm not sure why folks are weeping over an idol but, okay. 🤷‍♀️

It's not an idol, it's a symbol. Whether you associate it with Christianity, most people do. It's not a matter of the actual tree, the tree was decorated to celebrate America and it's Vets, thus the All American tree. It's what it stands for. smh I had asked that people would not take this off track to make this a subject about anti- Christmas. Apparently that was too hard for people to follow. smh
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
33,550
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#8
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. ;) I certainly don't idolize a tree. No where do I see the Bible is speaking of a Christmas tree.
Jeremiah 10

But let's stay on subject,
You said the subject was Christ's birth which is symbolized by this tree. I was responding to that assertion.

which is the burning of a tree that is associated in the worlds mind as a Christian symbol, one which they wish to destroy, whatever you feel about that symbol.
I would say it is a symbol of the apostasy. I am against crime and mentally ill people who need help being dumped out on the city streets.

NYC is run by Bill Deblasio, his wife is involved in mental health care and he got over $1 billion to care for the mentally ill and yet this man was dumped out on the streets. It is the real problem, phony baloney religion who raise a billion dollars as a pretense to help the poor and the sick and yet it is nothing but a scam to enrich themselves.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#9
I am well aware that our world is filled with pagan rituals and celebrations. I have no issue with Fox news having a Christmas tree nor do I have any issue with people being upset about the blatant violence involved in burning it down and the obvious issue of this man in need of mental health services being out on the street.

The issue I took was saying that the discussion of this tree was for people who believed in the birth of Jesus Christ. The Christmas tree has nothing to do with Jesus Christ's birth, Jeremiah makes that very clear.

We're not going to change each others minds. What I didn't want was people here who argue every year that Christmas isn't Christian. I did not want the thread derailed from the topic. That was my point.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#10

Not talking about a Christmas tree.


You said the subject was Christ's birth which is symbolized by this tree. I was responding to that assertion.
It is, all around the world ask people what a Christmas tree symbolizes, they will relate it to Christianity. A few have an issue with the tree, that's fine, that's your business. But the world sees it as part of Christmas, the Christian holiday. A reason why they are being burned down.



NYC is run by Bill Deblasio, his wife is involved in mental health care and he got over $1 billion to care for the mentally ill and yet this man was dumped out on the streets. It is the real problem, phony baloney religion who raise a billion dollars as a pretense to help the poor and the sick and yet it is nothing but a scam to enrich themselves

That's one we can agree on...
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,133
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#11
We're not going to change each others minds. What I didn't want was people here who argue every year that Christmas isn't Christian. I did not want the thread derailed from the topic. That was my point.
Nice thot but good luck with that
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
33,550
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#12
Not talking about a Christmas tree.
I have responded to this by creating a thread on the Christmas tree in Bible discussions so as not to take this discussion off topic. As long as you don't continue to push this on this thread I will avoid derailing this thread.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#13
Nice thot but good luck with that

Hahahaha if I said pretty, pretty plz?? I know we are all guilty of it. But when someone takes it from the get go and the subject isn't discussed, I think that can be rude. The only way I would do that is if someone is promoting heresy.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#14
I have responded to this by creating a thread on the Christmas tree in Bible discussions so as not to take this discussion off topic. As long as you don't continue to push this on this thread I will avoid derailing this thread.

Well of course I can't stop anyone from doing anything. I will ask, do you understand that the world, for the most part, associates the tree with Christianity and Christmas, therefore, Christ's birth. Otherwise why burn down a Christmas tree? Very particular. I know the guy in the FOX instance needs to be put away and given meds. But it's been happening more and more, surely not all of them have mental issues.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
33,550
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#15
Well of course I can't stop anyone from doing anything. I will ask, do you understand that the world, for the most part, associates the tree with Christianity and Christmas, therefore, Christ's birth. Otherwise why burn down a Christmas tree? Very particular. I know the guy in the FOX instance needs to be put away and given meds. But it's been happening more and more, surely not all of them have mental issues.
I have many thoughts on this question and will not discuss them here. I have gone into great detail on the celebration of Christmas in my blog (Summary of Bible references on the rapture) and I will focus specifically on the Christmas tree in the new thread.

I associate the birth of Jesus with the New Testament.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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#16
Otherwise why burn down a Christmas tree? Very particular. I know the guy in the FOX instance needs to be put away and given meds. But it's been happening more and more, surely not all of them have mental issues.
It seems that your question is why burn down a Christmas tree which we are seeing happen frequently and it seems the implied thought here is that this is an attack on Christianity.

My fundamental belief is that Jesus is lord and no one does anything without it being allowed by the Lord. Satan's attack on Job was under God's sovereignty and it worked out for a deeper revelation of God.

So I find your question way too simplistic. If they are attacking Christianity why not attack Jesus, or the cross, or salvation? Why not burn bibles instead? Why burn Christmas trees which have a very clear history that goes back to Babylon, the worship of pagan Gods depicting the Antichrist, and the birth of this pagan deity on December 25th? Why wouldn't this be God giving us a warning of the coming the judgement He said He would bring about on Babylon? Why wouldn't this be God saying "come out of her my people"
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
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#17
It's not an idol, it's a symbol. Whether you associate it with Christianity, most people do. It's not a matter of the actual tree, the tree was decorated to celebrate America and it's Vets, thus the All American tree. It's what it stands for. smh I had asked that people would not take this off track to make this a subject about anti- Christmas. Apparently that was too hard for people to follow. smh
I think it's more people don't like being told they can't contribute their thoughts to a conversation, on a public forum.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
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#18
The issue with Christmas, as with other holidays, hinges on several things:

There has to be a worship component. If you enjoy your tree as an element of celebrating the birth of Christ, you should be fine. If you worship your tree, you're off base.

And, God told us it's ok to eat meant sacrificed to idols because we know such idols have no sway over us. Does that not apply to once-pagan celebrations?

Finally, if eating meat sacrificed to idols causes a less-mature believer to stumble, we should abstain even tho it has no real sway over us. In this I find the only reason to not celebrate ... not that the celebration is corrupt, but that it causes some to stumble.

So for the milk drinkers among us, I guess we should put the trees away..?
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
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#19
Well of course I can't stop anyone from doing anything. I will ask, do you understand that the world, for the most part, associates the tree with Christianity and Christmas, therefore, Christ's birth. Otherwise why burn down a Christmas tree? Very particular. I know the guy in the FOX instance needs to be put away and given meds. But it's been happening more and more, surely not all of them have mental issues.
So the world associates us with a tree that we cut down, elaborately decorate, make the focal point of our living rooms, and sing to (O Christmas Tree/How lovely are your branches). Does that make it right in God's eyes? Should we claim a false idol just because the world associates Christians with a tree?

You called it a symbol earlier but one of the definitions of idol is:

2: a representation or symbol of an object of worship broadly : a false god
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/idol


Looks like it was a homeless guy named Craig Tamanaha that burned the tree down. Maybe he was against Christmas and wanted, like Gideon, to tear down the high places (Judges 6). Or maybe he wanted a warm cell to live for the winter and this was a good way to get it without hurting anyone. At any rate, there doesn't seem to be an explanation as to why he burned the tree but I don't think it had anything to do with being anti-Christian and probably more to do with him being looney tunes.
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
2,226
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#20
The issue with Christmas, as with other holidays, hinges on several things:

There has to be a worship component. If you enjoy your tree as an element of celebrating the birth of Christ, you should be fine. If you worship your tree, you're off base.

And, God told us it's ok to eat meant sacrificed to idols because we know such idols have no sway over us. Does that not apply to once-pagan celebrations?

Finally, if eating meat sacrificed to idols causes a less-mature believer to stumble, we should abstain even tho it has no real sway over us. In this I find the only reason to not celebrate ... not that the celebration is corrupt, but that it causes some to stumble.

So for the milk drinkers among us, I guess we should put the trees away..?
:LOL: