Are lockdown measures inviting a tsunami of death and destruction?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 10, 2019
552
437
63
Canada
#1
Now with data coming out of NYC, California and other places by researchers at esteemed colleges and universities like Stanford, USC and Oxford among others...that the overall mortality rate is less than 0.5% and possibly as low as 0.1% which would put it on par with the seasonal flu at the low end.

Now are we finally ready to start examining the enormous damage lockdown measures are going to have?

The United Nations is warning of a global famine of "Biblical Proportions" caused by the pending financial crisis of shutting down a big chunk of the global economy: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...hreats-coronavirus-economic-downturn-n1189326

If you're living in the west and are more concerned about issues close to home, Christianity Today is doing an amazing job highlighting the damage being done to the poor and marginilized by the measures being taken:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/c...k_04PGWGyMEyzfVjLYiAF2brc9GdNXSy4XBsUbJBh_oRY

I've seen suggestions that anyone protesting lock down measures, that they should be forced to work in a NYC nursing home or ICU. Maybe everyone complaining about protesters should be forced to go to East Africa to help the 300,000 people who are forecast to die every single day over a 3 month period toward the end of this year.
 
Apr 26, 2012
1,536
426
83
63
#2
The pandemic is over, sayeth the Lord.

I believe you are misinformed. It was not an economic shutdown, but an economic slowdown that is in a recovery mode as has happened in past decades. There were no lock down measures in this region that I've heard about, but I did hear about a protest to restrictions on business activities because the benefits of resuming normal business activities far outweigh any benefits of social distancing since the pandemic is under control and therefore such restrictions are causing more harm than good such as social unrest and an increase in crime and dangers to children and vulnerable people due to social isolation which is also harming the economy are gradually being lifted and normal economic benefits are in a phase-in mode to return to normal operations as soon as possible. Further economic restrictions would amount to economic sanctions which are no longer cost-effective and are no longer necessary.

Around here, there are roughly 200,000 veterans by a reasonable estimate, the national guard, off-duty authorities, civil authorities, hunters, and this is still a society where citizens have the right to own legal defensive weapons, so the peaceful expression of the reality that citizens are no longer going to tolerate an unnecessary limitation of public freedom was a welcome way to end the successful proactive victory over the viral pandemic, and therefore they should not be punished in any way, but rewarded for being part of the economic recovery.
Economic sanctions are not a viable way to counter biological threats, because it has been contained.

I'd like to see some proof of your estimates in the last paragraph. But it is tragic that so many people die around the world from man-made causes such as hunger and abortion and viral threats each year should never be considered routine or an acceptable loss of life.
The poor should never be oppressed, and suffering people who have suffered enough.
I care about the poor and am poor myself, and have been trying to help those in need which is a commandment of the Lord in the Bible.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,758
3,344
113
#3
Now with data coming out of NYC, California and other places by researchers at esteemed colleges and universities like Stanford, USC and Oxford among others...that the overall mortality rate is less than 0.5% and possibly as low as 0.1% which would put it on par with the seasonal flu at the low end.

Now are we finally ready to start examining the enormous damage lockdown measures are going to have?

The United Nations is warning of a global famine of "Biblical Proportions" caused by the pending financial crisis of shutting down a big chunk of the global economy: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...hreats-coronavirus-economic-downturn-n1189326

If you're living in the west and are more concerned about issues close to home, Christianity Today is doing an amazing job highlighting the damage being done to the poor and marginilized by the measures being taken:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/c...k_04PGWGyMEyzfVjLYiAF2brc9GdNXSy4XBsUbJBh_oRY

I've seen suggestions that anyone protesting lock down measures, that they should be forced to work in a NYC nursing home or ICU. Maybe everyone complaining about protesters should be forced to go to East Africa to help the 300,000 people who are forecast to die every single day over a 3 month period toward the end of this year.
Both NBC and Christianity today are liberal sources and should be taken with a grain of salt. But anyways what people dont understand is when this was first beginning, no one knew how bad it was going to be and rumors was that it was a biological weapon either accidentally or purposely released. Which means more attacks could occur.

Also the mortality rate may be low but that wasn't the biggest concern. This virus is extremely contagious, and lives within the host for weeks. Overwhelming the hospitals. We saw this all across Europe.

Even if we are facing apocalyptic death or destruction. Our hope is in the spiritual not the physical. We will band together and we will survive. Our ancestors have been through worse.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,643
3,035
113
#4
Yes i believe an economic melt down will lead to many farmers,, who have sadly become dependent on credit every year to buy their equipment needs,, to fail to plant crops when their credit lines are cut.. Also if a lot of farm machinery manufacturers also get hit by trade supply failures then there may be a lack of farm machinery and spare parts to keep mass production going on larger commercial farms.. Also most of the worlds fertilizers are made in factories.. Production interruptions could effect the supply and greatly increase the cost of fertilizers..

I believe Trump was correct when He warned that the response to the Virus could end up killing more people then the actual virus itself..
 
Aug 10, 2019
552
437
63
Canada
#5
Both NBC and Christianity today are liberal sources and should be taken with a grain of salt. But anyways what people dont understand is when this was first beginning, no one knew how bad it was going to be and rumors was that it was a biological weapon either accidentally or purposely released. Which means more attacks could occur.

Also the mortality rate may be low but that wasn't the biggest concern. This virus is extremely contagious, and lives within the host for weeks. Overwhelming the hospitals. We saw this all across Europe.

Even if we are facing apocalyptic death or destruction. Our hope is in the spiritual not the physical. We will band together and we will survive. Our ancestors have been through worse.
I have a hard time thinking of Christianity Today, given its ardent pro-life stance, as Liberal.....I simply consider the publication to be Christian. The numbers I'm seeing in Canada suggest that of identified cases only 2-4% are listed as serious, including some critial. And with all the asympotmatic unidentied cases out there every day going in and out of the supply chain, infecting product and packaging in grocery stores pharmacies and all the rest its likely only 1% or so requiring medical attention.....

We're starting to see all the damage being done, not by the virus but by lockdown measures.....its becoming more and more obvious that the Christian and humane thing to do is to start lifting lock down measures so as to lessen the misery, not increase it.
 
Aug 10, 2019
552
437
63
Canada
#6
The pandemic is over, sayeth the Lord.

I believe you are misinformed. It was not an economic shutdown, but an economic slowdown that is in a recovery mode as has happened in past decades. There were no lock down measures in this region that I've heard about, but I did hear about a protest to restrictions on business activities because the benefits of resuming normal business activities far outweigh any benefits of social distancing since the pandemic is under control and therefore such restrictions are causing more harm than good such as social unrest and an increase in crime and dangers to children and vulnerable people due to social isolation which is also harming the economy are gradually being lifted and normal economic benefits are in a phase-in mode to return to normal operations as soon as possible. Further economic restrictions would amount to economic sanctions which are no longer cost-effective and are no longer necessary.

Around here, there are roughly 200,000 veterans by a reasonable estimate, the national guard, off-duty authorities, civil authorities, hunters, and this is still a society where citizens have the right to own legal defensive weapons, so the peaceful expression of the reality that citizens are no longer going to tolerate an unnecessary limitation of public freedom was a welcome way to end the successful proactive victory over the viral pandemic, and therefore they should not be punished in any way, but rewarded for being part of the economic recovery.
Economic sanctions are not a viable way to counter biological threats, because it has been contained.

I'd like to see some proof of your estimates in the last paragraph. But it is tragic that so many people die around the world from man-made causes such as hunger and abortion and viral threats each year should never be considered routine or an acceptable loss of life.
The poor should never be oppressed, and suffering people who have suffered enough.
I care about the poor and am poor myself, and have been trying to help those in need which is a commandment of the Lord in the Bible.
There is an old line about the difference between a recession and a depression....a recession is when your neighbor loses a job, a depression is when you lose your job. Even during the Great Depression unemployment levels reached about 25%, which means 75% of people were still working.

I think a lot of people's attitudes depend on whether they have a seat in one of the lifeboats. Those who are still getting a regular pay check, or are retired with sufficient savings to live on....its somewhat logical to be more worried about the unknowns concerning the virus, while for those on the margins...with empty bank accounts and unable to work, its logical as well that they're more worried about the tangible and real effects of poverty.

FWIW the publication Fortune puts the real unemployment rate at over 20% now in the United States....

https://fortune.com/2020/04/23/us-u...tal-job-losses-april-23-2020-benefits-claims/

But hey, we're Christians....why should we worry about the poor here or the starving strangers in places like Africa.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
2,244
1,415
113
#7
Now with data coming out of NYC, California and other places by researchers at esteemed colleges and universities like Stanford, USC and Oxford among others...that the overall mortality rate is less than 0.5% and possibly as low as 0.1% which would put it on par with the seasonal flu at the low end.

Now are we finally ready to start examining the enormous damage lockdown measures are going to have?
Yes. All those who were part of this hoax should be tried and suitably punished (e.g. jail for life would be too good for some), their assets confiscated and used to repair some of the economic damage they've inflicted.

Those who were taken in by the scam (i.e. decrying, denouncing and blaming those who were reporting the truth) should forever hold their opinions to themselves. They are clearly children in their thinking, and likely will never be able to reason rationally. This may be easier said than done, but is necessary if we want to preserve freedom.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#8
Yes. All those who were part of this hoax
Anyone that thinks this virus is a scam or a hoax should get out and go to work in the nursing home, hospitals or even retail grocery stores. Amazon is hiring 75,000 people. Walmart is hiring 50,000 people. We need to get people off of welfare and off of unemployment and get them out working the jobs that need to be done right now. We need people to be productive, contributing members of society and not freeloaders. We should not be paying people to sit down and do nothing when there are so many essential jobs out there right now.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
4,176
892
113
#9
IMHO

If the entire country in not officially open by Memorial Day, most people and businesses will completely ignore restrictions.

Regardless of what is happening around the country, my family is planning a major Independence Day celebration.
 
Aug 10, 2019
552
437
63
Canada
#10
Anyone that thinks this virus is a scam or a hoax should get out and go to work in the nursing home, hospitals or even retail grocery stores. Amazon is hiring 75,000 people. Walmart is hiring 50,000 people. We need to get people off of welfare and off of unemployment and get them out working the jobs that need to be done right now. We need people to be productive, contributing members of society and not freeloaders. We should not be paying people to sit down and do nothing when there are so many essential jobs out there right now.
While I can agree with a lot of what you say I would make one exception, anyone 60+ and/or those with condidtions like diabetes, asthma or any others that increase the risk of death, they should not being out working...and gov't (us) should be subsidising them.
 
Apr 26, 2012
1,536
426
83
63
#11
Both NBC and Christianity today are liberal sources and should be taken with a grain of salt. But anyways what people dont understand is when this was first beginning, no one knew how bad it was going to be and rumors was that it was a biological weapon either accidentally or purposely released. Which means more attacks could occur.

Also the mortality rate may be low but that wasn't the biggest concern. This virus is extremely contagious, and lives within the host for weeks. Overwhelming the hospitals. We saw this all across Europe.

Even if we are facing apocalyptic death or destruction. Our hope is in the spiritual not the physical. We will band together and we will survive. Our ancestors have been through worse.
We are not facing apocalyptic death and destruction until the Lord says so. Jesus told James and John, seriously disciplining them as He did me this summer saying I (Christians) "can say that the Apocalypse is near, but it is very dangerous to say it is here.". When I was missing the main message of the Gospel which is salvation, not death and destruction. He told James and John that, "The Son of Man has come to save life, not destroy it. Ye are greatly mistaken.". On His way to Jerusalem. The Apocalypse is a mysterious long term event with spiritual warfare happening which is not new, but appears to be increasing in recent decades and years. Revelation is an ongoing event for centuries, calling us as Christians to be vigilant, and not fall into apathy or lukewarm acquiesce.
 
Apr 26, 2012
1,536
426
83
63
#12
A tsunami can represent positive change and action too - like a perfect storm, of good things. Christianity is a tsunami or a perfect storm. (this is not original - you know who you are).
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
2,244
1,415
113
#13
Anyone that thinks this virus is a scam or a hoax should get out and go to work in the nursing home, hospitals or even retail grocery stores.
The virus is a scam and a hoax, but the governments of the world are the ones shutting down business. Let's hold the corrupt people in governments to account first, for unlawfully stopping people travelling, transacting, and doing business, then we can get back to work, without risk of them scheduling a repeat scamdemic (or scamdemics) in 8 weeks time.

Amazon is hiring 75,000 people. Walmart is hiring 50,000 people. We need to get people off of welfare and off of unemployment and get them out working the jobs that need to be done right now. We need people to be productive, contributing members of society and not freeloaders. We should not be paying people to sit down and do nothing when there are so many essential jobs out there right now.
I agree. But as above, a crime has been committed. First the criminals must be made to pay, or they'll commit another crime shortly which will undo all the good you mention here.
 

Ruby123

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2019
7,473
5,892
113
#14
Well we are having very few new cases of the virus so things are beginning to open again and people are venturing out. We will be going into winter soon so hopefully things will continue to be positive. What I don't understand is cafes are open for takeaway and all the cakes and muffins are out in the open with no covering on them right where people are stopping and ordering at the till??
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
2,244
1,415
113
#15
Well we are having very few new cases of the virus so things are beginning to open again and people are venturing out. We will be going into winter soon so hopefully things will continue to be positive. What I don't understand is cafes are open for takeaway and all the cakes and muffins are out in the open with no covering on them right where people are stopping and ordering at the till??
Exactly. More proof this is not a virus.

However, unless they are stopped, the government will start up phase 2 of the scam in Winter when the seasonal colds and flus commence. Instead of cold or flu, I bet the diagnosis will be "coronavirus", because the powers that be want to justify a lock down again (in order to force people to take a vaccination - Certificate Of Vaccination IDentification - for this non-existent virus).
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,605
2,434
113
#16
Anyone that thinks this virus is a scam or a hoax should get out and go to work in the nursing home, hospitals or even retail grocery stores. Amazon is hiring 75,000 people. Walmart is hiring 50,000 people. We need to get people off of welfare and off of unemployment and get them out working the jobs that need to be done right now. We need people to be productive, contributing members of society and not freeloaders. We should not be paying people to sit down and do nothing when there are so many essential jobs out there right now.
punish those that disagree?

That is the progressive doctrine and in bill Ayers rules for radicals
Communism does just that.
Thank God Barr is looking into the constitutionality of quarantining the healthy .
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,605
2,434
113
#17
Exactly. More proof this is not a virus.

However, unless they are stopped, the government will start up phase 2 of the scam in Winter when the seasonal colds and flus commence. Instead of cold or flu, I bet the diagnosis will be "coronavirus", because the powers that be want to justify a lock down again (in order to force people to take a vaccination - Certificate Of Vaccination IDentification - for this non-existent virus).
Yep
The gov "protection" door has now widened to incorporate a national shutdown over preemptive threats at ANY PERCEIVED THREAT.
Those trusting gov to remove rights are in some Neverland trance.
Gov will save you!
Always trust your gov!!!!
(The guy that wants half earths population eliminated is saving he wants to vaccinate you.)

Man.....too errie seeing pple trust deranged perverts to save them.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,605
2,434
113
#18
Exactly. More proof this is not a virus.

However, unless they are stopped, the government will start up phase 2 of the scam in Winter when the seasonal colds and flus commence. Instead of cold or flu, I bet the diagnosis will be "coronavirus", because the powers that be want to justify a lock down again (in order to force people to take a vaccination - Certificate Of Vaccination IDentification - for this non-existent virus).
I believe it does exist but is no pandemic at all.
California has a super high population of those carrying the antibody. Herd immunity has been successful.
IOW you always want your healthiest out front in any virus situation.
We kill it...not bill gates.
Protect the vulnerable.
Schools staying open devestates the virus...kills it off and forms a literal killing machine.
Herd immunity
Gods built in killing machine
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,758
3,344
113
#19
We are not facing apocalyptic death and destruction until the Lord says so. Jesus told James and John, seriously disciplining them as He did me this summer saying I (Christians) "can say that the Apocalypse is near, but it is very dangerous to say it is here.". When I was missing the main message of the Gospel which is salvation, not death and destruction. He told James and John that, "The Son of Man has come to save life, not destroy it. Ye are greatly mistaken.". On His way to Jerusalem. The Apocalypse is a mysterious long term event with spiritual warfare happening which is not new, but appears to be increasing in recent decades and years. Revelation is an ongoing event for centuries, calling us as Christians to be vigilant, and not fall into apathy or lukewarm acquiesce.
Where did I say we was facing apocalyptic death and destruction?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
27,991
5,185
113
#20
I don't know about a tsunami, but they are creating problems that are proving to be dangerous ............ One area of grave concern is in Spousal Abuse. From the Reports I have seen, spousal abuse is on the rise because the husband and wife are now forced to spend far more time in close proximity to each other for a longer period of time........ This would also apply to child abuse I suspect.

I think, when and IF any Studies are done, numerous things will be proven to have been negatively impacted. Alcoholism, drug abuse, over eating, and so on and so forth..........