California church defies court order and worships indoors - Thoughts?

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Aug 10, 2019
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#1
Here is the link to the latest news item which says the judge is not going to ask the sheriff to enforce the court order:

https://www.latimes.com/california/...unty-church-that-defies-covid-19-health-order

From what I've read the pastor says there have been threats issued against the church and that meeting outdoors would be both impractical and potentially dangerous, they have something like 1,500 members. I watched the service on youtube from this past Sunday and it made me smile, it was so good to see.

I don't live in Ventura County California, I reside in a small town in Ontario Canada....population around 12,000. My own church is planning on re-opening in another 3 or 4 weeks, with very strict rules....members will have to rsvp for capacity (30% max) and potential contract tracing reasons, masks will have to be worn when entering and moving around, but from the pews they can be removed. Everyone will be physically distanced, no singing and no socializing before or after.

I've started attending the pentecostal church, when the weather is sunny we gather outside the church, with a short range FM transmitter for those who wish to remain in their cars, otherssit out in lawn chairs and listen to the loudspeakers....which is my choice as well. The past two Sundays have rained though and it was moved indoors, masked when entering, removed when seated. And we sang....some shook hands, I did....even gave my basketball brother Josh a nice man hug. We sing, and after service people do mingle outside.....not all, some at a distance and others closer. And I smile and am happy.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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#2
I applaud their courage. I hope more churches follow their example.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#3
Everyone will be physically distanced, no singing and no socializing before or after.
So now the State will control how Christians worship? The Chinese Communists must be delighted.

Are you aware that EVERYTHING connected with this Pandemic Hoax is bogus? And the very fact that the public health officials who were responsible for reducing infections, and eliminating deaths, are the same officials who have repeatedly sabotaged the use of the hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) package so that it could NOT be used as a preventative treatment. That is a criminal conspiracy since they are responsible for hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths.

As far as I'm concerned churches should simply ignore all those directives, and see what transpires. The State has no business telling Christians how they must assemble and worship.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#4
While I agree with the views, technology is making it so easy to attend without physically attending.

I wonder if God is not preparing the church to go back to the small home churches instead of these mega churches?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#5
While I agree with the views, technology is making it so easy to attend without physically attending.

I wonder if God is not preparing the church to go back to the small home churches instead of these mega churches?
The early church met in homes because 1 they were persecuted and 2 the church was still growing. We need the outward expression of faith but with the intimate relationship of discipleship in smaller settings also.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#7
Here is the link to the latest news item which says the judge is not going to ask the sheriff to enforce the court order:

https://www.latimes.com/california/...unty-church-that-defies-covid-19-health-order

From what I've read the pastor says there have been threats issued against the church and that meeting outdoors would be both impractical and potentially dangerous, they have something like 1,500 members. I watched the service on youtube from this past Sunday and it made me smile, it was so good to see.

I don't live in Ventura County California, I reside in a small town in Ontario Canada....population around 12,000. My own church is planning on re-opening in another 3 or 4 weeks, with very strict rules....members will have to rsvp for capacity (30% max) and potential contract tracing reasons, masks will have to be worn when entering and moving around, but from the pews they can be removed. Everyone will be physically distanced, no singing and no socializing before or after.

I've started attending the pentecostal church, when the weather is sunny we gather outside the church, with a short range FM transmitter for those who wish to remain in their cars, otherssit out in lawn chairs and listen to the loudspeakers....which is my choice as well. The past two Sundays have rained though and it was moved indoors, masked when entering, removed when seated. And we sang....some shook hands, I did....even gave my basketball brother Josh a nice man hug. We sing, and after service people do mingle outside.....not all, some at a distance and others closer. And I smile and am happy.
I say good for them! And I bet I've been to your little town. Been all over Ont. Has a beauty all it's own.
 
Aug 10, 2019
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#8
I say good for them! And I bet I've been to your little town. Been all over Ont. Has a beauty all it's own.
I love small town Ontario, and I absolutely love the outdoor worship....I think it should become permanent during the summer months barring rain. Living in the country and seeing the incredible sky and landscapes, it affirms my belief that this incredible world could not have come about by accident, or by time+matter+chance as Ravi Zacherias would put it.

Ultimately I don't know if church's gathering or not is the right thing to do, I just know that I support it because it feels right to me. My home church though is not going to be opening for in person worship for another 3 or 4 weeks, and one of the big reasons is liability. The rules they'll be putting in place do not sit well with me personally.

-We'll have to RSVP for contact tracing reasons and to ensure the number of people is no more than 30% of capacity
-Masks must be worn when entering and exiting and any time one moves around, at the pews they can be removed.
-Congregants will be physically distant in family groups, every other pew
-No Sunday school or other socializing before or during worhsip
-A picture will be taken of the congregation from the front of the church to demonstrate that the rules are being followed...

The Pentecostal church I've been attending has been meeting in the parking lot, but when it's rained we've gone indoors....masks are required when entering, but are removed at the pews.... last Sunday there was probably around 70 people attending and the degree to which people adhered to all the guidelines varied. There seems to be a respectful dance that goes on when people greet, if it's determined that both agree it looks like a handshake, fist bump or elbow bump takes place....personally I'm comfortable with anything.

I'm giving serious consideration to making the Pentecostal church my home....
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#9
If I am cited and hauled in on a charge for attending church service, my response to the charge will be that I am a "peaceful protestor" ... and I might have opportunity to testify about the Prince of Peace at a hearing on the merits of the charge.


John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.


 

AndyMaleh

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2020
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#10
Defying the authorities is never right.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (New English Translation)

13 Be subject to every human institution for the Lord’s sake, whether to a king as supreme 14 or to governors as those he commissions to punish wrongdoers and praise those who do good. 15 For God wants you to silence the ignorance of foolish people by doing good. 16 Live as free people, not using your freedom as a pretext for evil, but as God’s slaves. 17 Honor all people, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the king.
 
Aug 10, 2019
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#11
Defying the authorities is never right.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (New English Translation)

13 Be subject to every human institution for the Lord’s sake, whether to a king as supreme 14 or to governors as those he commissions to punish wrongdoers and praise those who do good. 15 For God wants you to silence the ignorance of foolish people by doing good. 16 Live as free people, not using your freedom as a pretext for evil, but as God’s slaves. 17 Honor all people, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the king.
"never"....be subject to every human institution "for the Lord's sake". Living as free people and going to church is not evil in my world...and I love the family of believers who are defying orders against corporate worship.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#12
Defying the authorities is never right.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (New English Translation)

13 Be subject to every human institution for the Lord’s sake, whether to a king as supreme 14 or to governors as those he commissions to punish wrongdoers and praise those who do good. 15 For God wants you to silence the ignorance of foolish people by doing good. 16 Live as free people, not using your freedom as a pretext for evil, but as God’s slaves. 17 Honor all people, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the king.
tell that to these guys ...

 
Mar 23, 2016
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#13
Defying the authorities is never right.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (New English Translation)

13 Be subject to every human institution for the Lord’s sake, whether to a king as supreme 14 or to governors as those he commissions to punish wrongdoers and praise those who do good. 15 For God wants you to silence the ignorance of foolish people by doing good. 16 Live as free people, not using your freedom as a pretext for evil, but as God’s slaves. 17 Honor all people, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the king.
Hebrews 10:

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; ( for he is faithful that promised; )

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#15
interesting
my thoughts are
only one person needs to have been infected for all those church members (1500 of them) to then come down with covid, and it may not even be a church member who attends.

I think they are coourageous to gather when theres a risk but I dont know how high the risk is in that particular community. Do they have active cases?

Jesus also says when TWO or THREE gather in my name there I am in the midst, so there doesnt need to be 1500 in one place all at one time to be called a 'gathering'.

Ive been to physical church just twice since covid but also been doing online church and facetime with believers, as well as on CC almost everyday, so I havent forsaken fellowship. I know for some its very important to gather in huge numbers but in nz we would never have that many fit in any church, we just dont have that huge population except in cities, and the few mega churches I guess are feeling the pinch but they are still doing life groups and have already set up online anyway.

I hd a friend that was going to a church conference in another town just before lockdown and it was cancelled but she flew down anyway and just fellowshipped with her friend in the motel.

I think worhsipping outdoors is fine and even if it rains it wouldnt matter if the Lord wanted it to rain then so be it.
 
Aug 11, 2020
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#16
I'm glad he is taking a stand and remaining open. Fellowship in person is absolutely essential. As long as they are taking precautions and wearing masks.
 
Aug 10, 2019
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#17
I'm glad he is taking a stand and remaining open. Fellowship in person is absolutely essential. As long as they are taking precautions and wearing masks.
They are taking precautions, but they're not wearing masks.....there is zero imperical evidence suggesting that masks help stop or even slow the spread of the virus. I'm in Canada, McMaster University is one or our leading medical schools, they conducted a study reviewing over 100 years worth of research on masks and they're ulimate conclusion was that there "might" be a modest benefit....which also means there might not be. They also concluded that having the general public wear masks also has the potential for harm.

Here's a fireside chat the Pastor from this church did yesterday with updates on how things are going....if you're going to criticize, then listen to it and talk specifically about what Pastor McKoy is saying in offering up a rebuttal.

 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#18
While I agree with the views, technology is making it so easy to attend without physically attending.

I wonder if God is not preparing the church to go back to the small home churches instead of these mega churches?
It's not the same at all, plus it should be a choice regardless. I do agree with making it an option for those that are high risk and/or just uncomfortable with leaving home for sure, but as far as these governors stepping on our constitutional rights to overreach and take our God given freedoms saying "you can not hold church", NOPE.

Also those calling for some kind of legal mandate to force mask, I couldn't be more against that period. I mean I am strait up willing to fight for the sake of our freedoms on this matter. This said I'm not crazy with it, I actually believe these businesses and things like this do have the right to refuse service to people that don't have mask, just like I support a business that refuses to bake a certain cake. What I would fight to the bitter end is the government telling us that we "HAVE TO". NOPE.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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#19
And this is why the number of covid-19 cases continues to rise
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#20
not sure why people are so against wearing masks its like people who get into cars and refuse to wear a seatbelt thats provided. I guess they wanna be free.