Robert E. Lee statue to be moved in Virginia

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kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
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well its easy to remove a statue so its shouldnt be a big deal...all those statues should be melted down and the people who made them and idolised them made to eat the residue as God ordered the Israelites to do when THEY made golden calves.

after they are gone I expect people can breathe a lot better like for example when plastic bags were finally banned and nobody was constantly asking everyone if they wanted one.

and people ought to stand up and say if nobodys treating them right I AM NOT YOUR SLAVE. God made me free so I live in freedom.

Blacks have been free for over a hundred years. They have the freedom to do anything in this country they wish to do. Eight years of Obama has proven that. Are there still racists? Yes, all over the world, and we will never change that. In fact, there are still human beings in slavery today, though no one cares apparently. That does not mean this country is racist, it isn't. This is a play for voters. Dems had eight years of a black president and never mentioned removing statues, never changed police policy, never did anything like the first step act Trump is doing, we have seen the lowest unemployment for blacks ever. Now they want to act like they care about blacks. It's pure hypocrisy.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
16,617
4,284
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Oop

Oops typo
Explain how my argument is non sequitur
When one, many of these monuments were put in place during the Jim Crow era like a giant middle finger to the civil Rights movement
And two, they are literally honoring man who owned slaves

Jim Crow, also brought to us by the Dems.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
5,743
915
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Yeah the Confederacy that fought to keep slavery
See article 1,section 9,1 https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_csa.asp not that I am defending slavery but most have never read this document and do not realize that on March 11,1861 the Confederate states were the first who prohibited the "importing of" into the confederate states. So four years prior to the federal states.

Jefferson Davis in his novel "Rise and fall of the Confederacy" Volume 1&2 speaks of this saying that he thought they should have freed the slaves immediately instead of ending importation and phasing it out over time because the English had told them they would have allied with them if they had.

The issue though was that slavery had been legal in both the north and south and that the Confederacy thought that government had no right under law to take citizens property away from them so instead they prohibited their importation into the states that succeeded and then no more could be imported/purchased and it would end that way. It feels uncomfortable to speak of human beings as if they are nothing more than property but in this document it approaches it this way and so it would be difficult for me to explain it another so I wish to state that that is not my view.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
9,066
476
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North Carolina was the first state to secede after making it clear that they would go to war before they would give up their slaves
The rest of the southern states soon followed suit
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
5,743
915
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read the individual confederate states "articles of succession" they are filled with comments that are quite racial but reading them will help you understand that the federal government had gone from teaching creation in their schools and were undergoing Darwin's theory of evolution by 1859. Which is why they were saying that the federal government had led them to go into those states,buy plantations and slaves and but were now back-paddling on four billions of dollars of worth in 1861.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,661
1,114
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It's a part of history. I do agree that the time period that a lot of these were constructed should be a point of discussion, but cooly if possible.

I'm from Ga, so Stone Mountain is a discussion point as well.

I didn't realize until this year the history behind the carving, but it is also within the state law as a landmark and cannot be destroyed until the state constitution is amended. It appears to me that the relief was completed after the involvement with racist groups were barred from the park officially so that probably should factor in as well.

I'm all for the discussion, because it literally is the largest monument in the world with this theme. What I do NOT want to see is the carving detonated off and used as a blank "slate" for advertisers to bombard me with whatever.

There are solutions to this, but even if they take every memorial down, there is still stone mountain and it's...err...gigantic.

They bring up the past for me, but as a way to learn from it, even as a painful reminder, because there were a lot of factors in the civil war besides slavery...that appeared to be the linchpin but it's possible that it was something else and slavery was just so very "visible". If others feel differently, then certainly a productive discussion should be had. A lot of people that fought in the civil war in the south had literally no stake in the slavery issue but fought anyway, because it was their home.

When I think of those generals I don't think of slavery, but I do think of state's rights. It is VERY unfortunate that slavery was the issue that was used in this "overall purpose", quite sad. The positive is that either way the war turned out and the devastation that followed, slavery was no longer legal.

Anyone that sees these monuments as promoting racism should look deeply into the history. I get that, much like the dixie flag, it has been pirated to become a symbol for racism in some contexts (particularly the flag) as well as other things. If we can all agree that is "has" to mean that, then changes WILL be made. This is why the discussion is important for those who have strong views.

is it legit on the same level as the swastika?

I'm totally open to the discussion from others that are in favor of these monuments being taken down. Taking down a monument may make some that are offended "feel" better, but is it actually tackling the issue? It seems it may have the opposite effect of sweeping injustice under the rug. It's cold metal, wood, and stone.

It's a great rent across the fabric of our history. I appreciate the reminder, no matter how uncomfortable it makes me at times.

Little known but the 13th amendment (Civil war) also included indentured servitude which is definitely worth apprising oneself of. This type of slavery existed in the north probably a lot more commonly, although I'd have to do some more research if anyone is interested.

Nowadays it exists in a different form, for quite a few people across races...alas that is another discussion.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
9,066
476
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Because statues are totally the only historical records we have
If only we had something like a bundles of pages made of paper bound together to hold information...
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
7,968
4,628
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Blacks have been free for over a hundred years. They have the freedom to do anything in this country they wish to do. Eight years of Obama has proven that. Are there still racists? Yes, all over the world, and we will never change that. In fact, there are still human beings in slavery today, though no one cares apparently. That does not mean this country is racist, it isn't. This is a play for voters. Dems had eight years of a black president and never mentioned removing statues, never changed police policy, never did anything like the first step act Trump is doing, we have seen the lowest unemployment for blacks ever. Now they want to act like they care about blacks. It's pure hypocrisy.
If anyone wants to see real racism look at many many other Countries in the world.
But in the United States? No way. Any so-called race can rise to the highest offices of business and government in the land no problem. Without limitation, without restraint.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,311
997
113
I hate it that you feel that way but I wont be made to feel ashamed .. You can still buy slaves in Libya for 3-500 dollars .. Where's the outrage .. I acknowledge this country had slave and slave owners all colors .. Quit whining is my advise, you have all the opportunity in America the last 50 yrs at least .. You're either a ''born again'' Christian or not .. Jesus will settle all scores once and for all .. And I've heard more black folks calling out other black folks than I've ever heard white .. I've had black friends warn me about certain other blacks they knew . Josiah Henson was one of the greatest Christians ever to live in America , and black Christians who dog him should be ashamed imo .. My grandmother handed out bagged lunches to all folks during the depression who come through looking for work .. Her and her whole poor community fed them all .. Look up Tory Dandy one of my kids I coached and got onto like my own sons after we moved, he was in my house and welcome in my house as were other platers who played with my sons, just don't walk on my property with your pants down to your knees W or B , he was headed to being a thug and he had a great Christian mother .. I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in an all black church and attended many bi-racial churches .. Black kids have visited me from their college and spent days with me and my family , ones who were at my house every day playing that I was the only father they knew to love and show them how to act and think like a Christian man, I treated them as my own sons .. At least three of the mothers begged me to whip them if I thought they needed it, never did but they knew it wasn't out of the question some as old as 13-14 by then .. I've give thousands to feed the children in Africa and you want to concentrate on a few bad apples or refuse to judge rightly .. The last time I helped coach a day or two a little black kid tripped over his shoelaces and was crying , 6-7, I hugged him and showed him how to tie his shoes .. Stop painting your racist picture on everybody , it ain't near as bad as you want to make it .. Grow up and do something yourself , and there were Christians killed on both sides of the civil war ..
 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
2,196
326
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I hate it that you feel that way but I wont be made to feel ashamed .. You can still buy slaves in Libya for 3-500 dollars .. Where's the outrage .. I acknowledge this country had slave and slave owners all colors .. Quit whining is my advise, you have all the opportunity in America the last 50 yrs at least .. You're either a ''born again'' Christian or not .. Jesus will settle all scores once and for all .. And I've heard more black folks calling out other black folks than I've ever heard white .. I've had black friends warn me about certain other blacks they knew . Josiah Henson was one of the greatest Christians ever to live in America , and black Christians who dog him should be ashamed imo .. My grandmother handed out bagged lunches to all folks during the depression who come through looking for work .. Her and her whole poor community fed them all .. Look up Tory Dandy one of my kids I coached and got onto like my own sons after we moved, he was in my house and welcome in my house as were other platers who played with my sons, just don't walk on my property with your pants down to your knees W or B , he was headed to being a thug and he had a great Christian mother .. I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in an all black church and attended many bi-racial churches .. Black kids have visited me from their college and spent days with me and my family , ones who were at my house every day playing that I was the only father they knew to love and show them how to act and think like a Christian man, I treated them as my own sons .. At least three of the mothers begged me to whip them if I thought they needed it, never did but they knew it wasn't out of the question some as old as 13-14 by then .. I've give thousands to feed the children in Africa and you want to concentrate on a few bad apples or refuse to judge rightly .. The last time I helped coach a day or two a little black kid tripped over his shoelaces and was crying , 6-7, I hugged him and showed him how to tie his shoes .. Stop painting your racist picture on everybody , it ain't near as bad as you want to make it .. Grow up and do something yourself , and there were Christians killed on both sides of the civil war ..
First of all I didn't ask for your advice. If you are going to try and check me at least know how to spell it. You grow up and be a man. You act like a big mouthed spoiled brat who attacks people to try and make himself seem superior to others. Since you want to throw the bible at me
Matthew 7:16-20 King James Version (KJV)
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


A tree is known by its fruits. This means that the quality of a tree is known by the quality of the fruits borne by the tree. This literally means that the tree should not be judged by it appearance but buy the fruit which is generated by it. You have been rude and nasty to me in every thread that I am in. You Sir need to go back to the Altar for a refilling because what you are displaying is strange fruit not fruits of the spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 [gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

To Quote you, "You're either a ''born again'' Christian or not .. Jesus will settle all scores once and for all." The score was settled when Jesus shed His blood for us and died on the cross. I have been affirmed by God, I don't need yur approval. I do Extremely well for myself. There is no lack in my home, my life nor my finances. My God has supplied all of my needs according to His riches in Glory. He has me covered. You just make sure that YOUR HOUSE is in GODLY order. Now I shake the dust from my feet with you.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,311
997
113
First of all I didn't ask for your advice. If you are going to try and check me at least know how to spell it. You grow up and be a man. You act like a big mouthed spoiled brat who attacks people to try and make himself seem superior to others. Since you want to throw the bible at me
Matthew 7:16-20 King James Version (KJV)
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


A tree is known by its fruits. This means that the quality of a tree is known by the quality of the fruits borne by the tree. This literally means that the tree should not be judged by it appearance but buy the fruit which is generated by it. You have been rude and nasty to me in every thread that I am in. You Sir need to go back to the Altar for a refilling because what you are displaying is strange fruit not fruits of the spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 [gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

To Quote you, "You're either a ''born again'' Christian or not .. Jesus will settle all scores once and for all." The score was settled when Jesus shed His blood for us and died on the cross. I have been affirmed by God, I don't need yur approval. I do Extremely well for myself. There is no lack in my home, my life nor my finances. My God has supplied all of my needs according to His riches in Glory. He has me covered. You just make sure that YOUR HOUSE is in GODLY order. Now I shake the dust from my feet with you.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,311
997
113
First of all I didn't ask for your advice. If you are going to try and check me at least know how to spell it. You grow up and be a man. You act like a big mouthed spoiled brat who attacks people to try and make himself seem superior to others. Since you want to throw the bible at me
Matthew 7:16-20 King James Version (KJV)
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


A tree is known by its fruits. This means that the quality of a tree is known by the quality of the fruits borne by the tree. This literally means that the tree should not be judged by it appearance but buy the fruit which is generated by it. You have been rude and nasty to me in every thread that I am in. You Sir need to go back to the Altar for a refilling because what you are displaying is strange fruit not fruits of the spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 [gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

To Quote you, "You're either a ''born again'' Christian or not .. Jesus will settle all scores once and for all." The score was settled when Jesus shed His blood for us and died on the cross. I have been affirmed by God, I don't need yur approval. I do Extremely well for myself. There is no lack in my home, my life nor my finances. My God has supplied all of my needs according to His riches in Glory. He has me covered. You just make sure that YOUR HOUSE is in GODLY order. Now I shake the dust from my feet with you.
Your thoughts on Josiah Henson
 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
2,196
326
83
Race-baiting solves nothing. Racism in America has died the death just leave it dead and buried please.
Race baiting? That's all some of these people have been talking about is race and the black people as though all blacks are the worse thing walking From thread to thread. But I'm race baiting. Stop it.

Just because you are not witnessing it does not mean that others are not. Stop diminishing someone else's experiences. Racism is not dead. If it were then I wouldn't have been told that "No "N words" were allowed on that street" when I purchased my home and my almost 80 year old mother wouldn't have been told to go back to Africa over pumping gas and that's not the worst.

I never said that ALL white people are racists. My god daughter is white. As for SOME of the people here, I only can go by what was shown to me here . Some of you need to take your own advice. As I've said there are some nice people here but some days the not so nice people outweigh the nice ones. If racism is dead and buried then some of you need to act like it.
 
Feb 1, 2020
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They tore down infamous witch Albert Pike's idol the other day. Good stuff, keep ripping these idols down don't spare any of them, in the name of Jesus, amen.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,311
997
113
They tore down infamous witch Albert Pike's idol the other day. Good stuff, keep ripping these idols down don't spare any of them, in the name of Jesus, amen.
Now there's one that will have a lot to answer for from what I hear ..