Protestants follow many Catholic traditions that began during the 1st century

[just-me]

Many religious customs within the Christian churches are based on counsel of the “early post- apostolic writers” like Ignatius, Marcion, and Tertullian. The fact is that these men have shaped Christianity into what it is today. The most common theme from these founders of the Gentile church is that they severely opposed Jewish culture and law, as do most Christian pastors today. Most church founders appear to have been utterly unable to distinguish between Rabbinical Tradition and Torah observance as taught by Christ Jesus and the Apostles.

For starters, first I will present Ignatius of Antioch 35-107 AD.

He was considered an “auditor” and “disciple” of John, although he never met John personally nor studied under him. Ignatius pioneered the Greek-based Christian religion. He was very instrumental in the assimilation of paganism into early Christianity, and packaged Christianity for a Greco-Roman Hellenic culture. He saw Jewish followers of Christ Jesus as nothing but legalists and Judaizers. He despised the observance of the Sabbath in favor of the Ishtar sunrise “Lord's day” Sun Day. He promoted the “infallibility of the church” and the “universal church.” If there ever was a hierarchy loving “Christian” politician with a Hellenistic autocratic mindset, it was Ignatius who taught that deacons, presbyters and bishops were a separate category of people infused with Jesus-like authority to be lords over the people. He also taught that (quote) “without the bishop's supervision, no baptisms or love feasts are permitted” and he believed Mary to be the eternal virgin mother of God.

There's much more in letters recorded by these founders that I will post later, if people are interested in their religious heritage.

“For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.” James 1:23-24

 

[Magenta]

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church...

Did Jesus really mean to say He was going to build His church on a fallible man?

 

[just-me]

In his letter to the Magnesians, Ignatius writes.........

Some persons have the bishop's name on their lips, but in everything act apart from him. Such men appear to me not to keep a good conscience, forasmuch as they do not assemble themselves together lawfully according to the commandment. (i.e. the commandment of “the hierarchy”)

Be not seduced by strange doctrines nor by antiquated fables, which are profitless. For if even unto this day we live after the manner of Judaism, we avow that we have not received grace: (Ignatius taught that grace was invented in the “New Testament” and wasn't present in “Judaism”)

If then those who had walked in ancient practices attained unto newness of hope, (they will be) no longer observing Sabbaths but fashioning their lives after the Lord's day. (Jesus kept the seventh day Sabbath according to His Father's commandments, as did Paul; so then to which “Lord” would Ignatius be referring?)

It is monstrous to talk of Jesus Christ and practice Judaism. (Ignatius projected his anti-Torah image of “Jesus” upon the Jewish Messiah; he is forefather of “replacement theology” and utterly incapable of discerning between Torah and religious traditions.)

For Christianity did not believe Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity wherein {every tongue} believed and {was gathered together} unto God. (Jesus and His disciples were in-fact a sect of Judaism; Ignatius was instrumental in fashioning a sect of Greek based “Christianity”)

 

[HQ]

Actually God has used many imperfect people to do His will.

 

[just-me]

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church...

Did Jesus really mean to say He was going to build His church on a fallible man?

Peter's belief in Jesus was the stone that the church would be built upon.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18

Peter's name used to be Simon, Jesus changed his name to clarify the "rock. "Kefa" is Hebrew for "Peter" meaning ...

4073. petra pet'-ra feminine of the same as 4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):--rock.
4074. Petros pet'-ros apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than 3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle:--Peter, rock.

פטרוס (Petros), פיטר (literally Peter)

"Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." Luke 3:8

 

[just-me]

Did Jesus really mean to say He was going to build His church on a fallible man?

Actually God has used many imperfect people to do His will.

The only perfect One is Christ Jesus with His Father. Every person God has ever used was imperfect.

"But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." Matthew 16:23

 

[Elin]

Many religious customs within the Christian churches are based on counsel of the “early post- apostolic writers” like Ignatius, Marcion, and Tertullian. The fact is that these men have shaped Christianity into what it is today. The most common theme from these founders of the Gentile church is that they severely opposed Jewish culture and law, as do most Christian pastors today. Most church founders appear to have been utterly unable to distinguish between Rabbinical Tradition and Torah observance as taught by Christ Jesus and the Apostles.

For starters, first I will present Ignatius of Antioch 35-107 AD.

He was considered an “auditor” and “disciple” of John, although he never met John personally nor studied under him. Ignatius pioneered the Greek-based Christian religion. He was very instrumental in the assimilation of paganism into early Christianity, and packaged Christianity for a Greco-Roman Hellenic culture. He saw Jewish followers of Christ Jesus as nothing but legalists and Judaizers. He despised the observance of the Sabbath in favor of the Ishtar sunrise “Lord's day” Sun Day. He promoted the “infallibility of the church” and the “universal church.” If there ever was a hierarchy loving “Christian” politician with a Hellenistic autocratic mindset, it was Ignatius who taught that deacons, presbyters and bishops were a separate category of people infused with Jesus-like authority to be lords over the people. He also taught that (quote) “without the bishop's supervision, no baptisms or love feasts are permitted” and he believed Mary to be the eternal virgin mother of God.

There's much more in letters recorded by these founders that I will post later, if people are interested in their religious heritage.

“For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.” James 1:23-24

This is less than unbiased. . .

 

[Elin]

In his letter to the Magnesians, Ignatius writes.........

Some persons have the bishop's name on their lips, but in everything act apart from him. Such men appear to me not to keep a good conscience, forasmuch as they do not assemble themselves together lawfully according to the commandment. (i.e. the commandment of “the hierarchy”)

Be not seduced by strange doctrines nor by antiquated fables, which are profitless. For if even unto this day we live after the manner of Judaism, we avow that we have not received grace: (Ignatius taught that grace was invented in the “New Testament” and wasn't present in “Judaism”)

If then those who had walked in ancient practices attained unto newness of hope, (they will be) no longer observing Sabbaths but fashioning their lives after the Lord's day. (Jesus kept the seventh day Sabbath according to His Father's commandments, as did Paul; so then to which “Lord” would Ignatius be referring?)

It is monstrous to talk of Jesus Christ and practice Judaism. (Ignatius projected his anti-Torah image of “Jesus” upon the Jewish Messiah; he is forefather of “replacement theology” and utterly incapable of discerning between Torah and religious traditions.)

For Christianity did not believe Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity wherein {every tongue} believed and {was gathered together} unto God. (Jesus and His disciples were in-fact a sect of Judaism; Ignatius was instrumental in fashioning a sect of Greek based “Christianity”)

HRM Greek vs. Christ thread. . .

 

[Elin]

Peter's belief in Jesus was the stone that the church would be built upon.

Actually, Jesus is the rock/stone that the church is built on.

 

[Elin]

The only perfect One is Christ Jesus with His Father. Every person God has ever used was imperfect.

"But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." Matthew 16:23

Peter is not Satan.

It would be good if you understood what Jesus was saying there. . .

 

[just-me]

In his letter to the Philadelphians, Ignatius writes.........

But if anyone propound Judaism unto you, hear him not; for it is better to hear Christianity from a man who is circumcised than Judaism from one uncircumcised.
But if either the one or the other speak not concerning Jesus Christ, I look on them as tombstones and graves of the dead, whereon are inscribed only the names of men.
Shun ye therefore the wicked arts and plottings of the prince of this world, lest haply ye be crushed by his devices, and wax weak in your love.

(To make such a statement Ignatius was obviously up against “uncircumcised” Gentiles who kept Torah and the circumcised Jews who followed Jesus Christ; both could potentially have been followers of the original belief of the first apostles)

The following is the gospel truth of Jeremiah and Paul.

“Because my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in paths, in a way not cast up; Jeremiah 18:15

Paul writes to Timothy;
“I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day; 2 Timothy 1:3

 

[p_rehbein]

Title: Protestants follow many Catholic traditions that began during the 1st century


What "traditions" are you speaking of? Don't see anything of particular importance in your comments.

 

[M33]

The Lord commands us to be born again in John, Chapter 3. The Roman church has no requirement, or even suggestion for their followers to do this in any way. To be born again, one must have a personal relationship with God, through Christ. The pope has publically advised their church that it is dangerous, and (thus ill advised) to have a personal relationship with God. Unless this primary issue is resolved, debating commonalities is useless.

 

[just-me]

In his letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ignatius writes.........

They allow not that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which flesh suffered for our sins, and which the Father of His goodness raised up.

(Ignatius teaches that the Eucharist and “flesh” of Jesus is “holy,” and cannot distinguish between the tangible aspects of life, the soul, and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, he maintains his pagan ideology and simply projects it onto Messiah.)

Continuing, he writes...
Do ye all follow your bishop, as Jesus Christ followed the Father, and the presbytery as the Apostles; and to the deacons pay respect, as to God's commandment?
Let no man do aught of things pertaining to the church apart from the bishop.
Let that be held a valid Eucharist which is under the bishop or one to whom he shall have committed it. Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be; even as where Jesus may be, there is a universal church.

(Ignatius is credited for being the first person to mention the “Catholic Church” but notice also how he twists “God's commandment” to elevate the authority of his hierarchy.

Continuing, he writes....
It is not lawful apart from the bishop either to baptize or hold a love feast; but whatsoever he shall approve, this is well-pleasing also to God.

Ignatius is one of the biggest heroes of Christo-Paganism because he installed variation of the hierarchy of man. His followers wear labels such as Pope and Reverend which is high-handed blasphemy as these titles are exclusive to God the Father and Jesus Christ. Every religion has one form of Priesthood or another but, of course, those who are called of Messiah are given their authority through Messiah, and certainly not according to man's hierarchy.

"For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:" Exodus 34:14

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12

 

[just-me]

Title: Protestants follow many Catholic traditions that began during the 1st century


What "traditions" are you speaking of? Don't see anything of particular importance in your comments.

I've only begun. Denying Torah, and Sabbaths (with God ordained feast days) I have quoted previously which the protestant Churches deny also. (for the most part)
Pope Gregory also denied the Biblical calendar and now we all abide by the Gregorian calendar. Every day is named after some pagan god, along with 8 months out of 12. Or there abouts.

 

[ember]

uh...just no...this must be the thread of the assumption because that is the main ingredient IMO

 

[just-me]

uh...just no...this must be the thread of the assumption because that is the main ingredient IMO

If we refuse to learn from history, we are bound to make the same mistakes as the previous generations. What I am presenting is documented. I could never make all this up. It wasn't a dream or a vision either. LOL

 

[ember]

If we refuse to learn from history, we are bound to make the same mistakes as the previous generations. What I am presenting is documented. I could never make all this up. It wasn't a dream or a vision either. LOL

oh I could tell it's a copy/paste...no probs

but this for example:

The most common theme from these founders of the Gentile church is that they severely opposed Jewish culture and law, as do most Christian pastors today. Most church founders appear to have been utterly unable to distinguish between Rabbinical Tradition and Torah observance as taught by Christ Jesus and the Apostles.

I don't find that to be true at all...it differs from church to church

well gotta sign off for the night anyway...so check on it tomorrow

 

[M33]

I would like to apologize in advance if my tone sounds a bit terse. It is not intentional, but there are multiple problems with this post I must address.

First, it is important to differentiate between the Catholic Church, and the Roman Catholic Church. Catholic Church is translated as "Universal Congregation." Roman Catholic Church is a very specific denomination, as opposed to Universal.

"The fact" is that the true church of Christ is built upon Sola Christus, not on any historical human characters.


"Severely opposed Jewish culture"? The Scriptures are clear that... Jesus was a Jew. The Jews are God's chosen people. And Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law, not to change it.


If Ignatius was in favor of Sun Day due to Ishtar, then he was wrong. Ishtar was the pagan goddess of fertility, and an abomination to God. Sunday was chosen by Christians because of the resurrection, but this does not diminish the Sabbath as declared by God in the Old Testament.

Nowhere in Scripture is man given Jesus-like authority. That is heresy, pure and simple. Men are given authority to do things, "In the Name of Jesus" but not with equal authority as God the Son.

Jesus had 4 half brothers we are sure about. Both James and Jude are referred to as His brothers in Scripture. Thus, unless there were multiple miracles, the Lord's Blessed Mother could not have remained a virgin.

I completely agree with the problems of divisions. The word "Protestant" comes from the protests of believers to the Roman Church in that the man made rules in the Magisterium of the Romans veered so far from the truth in Scripture. If the Romans would have stuck with the Bible, which they protected from the 4th century to the 16th, there would have been no protests, thus no protestants. It was, and is, the Roman Church that caused the division.

Maranatha.

 

[just-me]

I would like to apologize in advance if my tone sounds a bit terse. It is not intentional, but there are multiple problems with this post I must address.

First, it is important to differentiate between the Catholic Church, and the Roman Catholic Church. Catholic Church is translated as "Universal Congregation." Roman Catholic Church is a very specific denomination, as opposed to Universal.

"The fact" is that the true church of Christ is built upon Sola Christus, not on any historical human characters.


"Severely opposed Jewish culture"? The Scriptures are clear that... Jesus was a Jew. The Jews are God's chosen people. And Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law, not to change it.


If Ignatius was in favor of Sun Day due to Ishtar, then he was wrong. Ishtar was the pagan goddess of fertility, and an abomination to God. Sunday was chosen by Christians because of the resurrection, but this does not diminish the Sabbath as declared by God in the Old Testament.

Nowhere in Scripture is man given Jesus-like authority. That is heresy, pure and simple.

Jesus had 4 half brothers we are sure about. Both James and Jude are referred to as His brothers in Scripture. Thus, unless there were multiple miracles, the Lord's Blessed Mother could not have remained a virgin.

I completely agree with the problems of divisions. The word "Protestant" comes from the protests of believers to the Roman Church in that the man made rules in the Magisterium of the Romans veered so far from the truth in Scripture. If the Romans would have stuck with the Bible, which they protected from the 4th century to the 16th, there would have been no protests, thus no protestants. It was, and is, the Roman Church that caused the division.

Maranatha.

You make some very good points. This thread is not to try to explain that protestants are the same a Catholics. It is only to show that there are many traditions that the protestants hold today the same as Catholics do. If you read many threads, you will see even in CC there are many people who deny God's preordained and established ordinances, separating the words of God according to old and new as something past and present. This is what the first Roman Catholic Church did beginning almost 2000 years ago. I am attempting to edify by pointing our heresies that began with that church and have been taken on (to some extent) by the protestant religions. Thank you for your gentleness.

see this post