Did George Floyd actually die from cardiac arrest?

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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#21
So you believe that had that cop not had his knee on his neck, He would still be dead? We know for a fact that he had the Covid virus. One of the major symptoms was lack of oxygen right?
So you believe that had that cop not had his knee on his neck, He would still be dead?
Doesn't matter what I believe. The report says cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression.

Basically his underlying conditions are what complicated the law enforcement's use of force that led to Floyd's death.

He was also on Fentanyl which is medically used to lower breathing.

He had caffeine in his system that speeds up the heart rate.

As for COVID yes he tested positive but they believe he had already had it for two weeks.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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#22
The report says cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression. Basically his underlying conditions are what complicated the law enforcement's use of force that led to Floyd's death.
Cardiopulmonary arrest is not the cause of death, it is mechanism by which death occurs. In such, it only attests to the fact that death has occurred but is not the cause of death.

The cause of death is the disease, injury or contributory factor that caused the cardiopulmonary arrest (cessation of breath and heat beat). Theoretically the cause of death should be objective but in fact is the best opinion based upon known data available to the medical examiner or coroner or other person authorized by law to made the determination.

In this case, the manner of death determined by the Medical Examiner was that Mr. Floyd's death a homicide. Homicide is defined as the action of one person(s) directly causing the death of another. The complicating factor causing the cardiopulmonary arrest was law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression.

So in other words, it could be speculated that the Medical Examiner does not accept that Mr. Floyd death was a result from ingesting the drugs he was going to sell, or speculated that the Medical Examiner accepts the Black Lives Matter belief that the police drugged Mr. Floyd when they put him in the ambulance in order to cover up that these non-black police officers conspired to murder Mr. Floyd, a black man, by using mechanical asphyxiation.

I don't see any difference between a person who rejects principles and a reprobate, but I would remind those who truly believe the words of George Floyd, and they know who they are.

And from the transcript of the audio of the body cam wherein it is recorded these words of George Floyd that he spoke as the earth was opening her mouth to receive his soul, " I'm going down. I'm going down. I'm not going up."

George Floyd: Please, man. One of you listen to me.
Derek Chauvin: Is he going to jail?
J. Alexander Kueng: He's under arrest right now for forgery.
George Floyd: I can't…

Alexander Kueng: 1594745519040.jpeg Until we figure out what's going on
George Floyd: Forgery for what? For what? Please, man. I can't fu*king breath .
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,139
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#23



  • Cardiopulmonary arrest is not the cause of death, it is mechanism by which death occurs. In such, it only attests to the fact that death has occurred but is not the cause of death.

    The cause of death is the disease, injury or contributory factor that caused the cardiopulmonary arrest (cessation of breath and heat beat). Theoretically the cause of death should be objective but in fact is the best opinion based upon known data available to the medical examiner or coroner or other person authorized by law to made the determination.

    In this case, the manner of death determined by the Medical Examiner was that Mr. Floyd's death a homicide. Homicide is defined as the action of one person(s) directly causing the death of another. The complicating factor causing the cardiopulmonary arrest was law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression.

    So in other words, it could be speculated that the Medical Examiner does not accept that Mr. Floyd death was a result from ingesting the drugs he was going to sell, or speculated that the Medical Examiner accepts the Black Lives Matter belief that the police drugged Mr. Floyd when they put him in the ambulance in order to cover up that these non-black police officers conspired to murder Mr. Floyd, a black man, by using mechanical asphyxiation.

    I don't see any difference between a person who rejects principles and a reprobate, but I would remind those who truly believe the words of George Floyd, and they know who they are.

    And from the transcript of the audio of the body cam wherein it is recorded these words of George Floyd that he spoke as the earth was opening her mouth to receive his soul, " I'm going down. I'm going down. I'm not going up."

    George Floyd: Please, man. One of you listen to me.
    Derek Chauvin: Is he going to jail?
    J. Alexander Kueng: He's under arrest right now for forgery.
    George Floyd: I can't…

    Alexander Kueng: View attachment 218964 Until we figure out what's going on
    George Floyd: Forgery for what? For what? Please, man. I can't fu*king breath .
    • The family of George Floyd has hired former NYC medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden to conduct a separate, independent autopsy
    • It came after the preliminary results the official autopsy claimed Floyd, 46, had not died from strangulation or asphyxiation
    • It blames his death on a combination of heart disease, 'potential intoxicants in his system' and being placed in restraint by police officers
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...lying-heart-conditions-not-strangulation.html

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articl...floyd-died-heart-attack-evidence-fentanyl.htm

All im saying it is quite odd how the results changed. After the family hired a private autopsy.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
715
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#24
All im saying it is quite odd how the results changed. After the family hired a private autopsy.
I understand what you are saying and but I am not sure you can say the results changed. The official cause of death is contained in the Death Certificate that will be issued by the Hennepin Medical Examiners office.

I don't think that a death certificate has even been issued yet so nothing has changed.

The family of George Floyd has hired former NYC medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden to conduct a separate, independent autopsy
Well, keep in mind that the law prescribes which family member had the authority to give the consent. However, with the recent complaint filed in US District Court against the four officers along with the City of Minneapolis by the recently designated next of Kin of George Floyd, the cause of death is no longer important since the fact he died is all they have to prove now.

And Ben Crump came prepare with an army of seven law firms with some 14 lawyers now actively retained to protect the heirs, that pretty much leaves members of the Floyd family out of the loop which suggests that some sort of confidential settlement agreement is being signaled to he City who is now facing the liability for those law firms and lawyers fees if they choice to proceed to trial.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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#25
Both the Baden private autopsy and the first autopsy by the county medical examiner, found the manner of death to be homicide.

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hen...hash=1DD37B049B99FAE35949ADD1D04331BD45A86D01
The county medical examiner report lists cause of death of Mr.George Floyd attributable to homicide. "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

1595210966169.png


Read the complaint charging ex-Minneapolis officer Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd
https://www.startribune.com/read-th...death-of-george-floyd/570870791/?refresh=true
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#26
Chauvin contributed to the death and should be held responsible. A lot of various types of people (children, elderly, maybe even normal healthy people, etc.) may have faced the same outcome had Chauvin handled them the same way. I agree that Floyd had a lot of other issues and that also contributed to his death, but that doesn't mean Chauvin is also not responsible. I think giving him the highest murder charge, if that is what he was charged with, is too high. A lesser degree murder charge is more reasonable.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,139
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#27
Chauvin contributed to the death and should be held responsible. A lot of various types of people (children, elderly, maybe even normal healthy people, etc.) may have faced the same outcome had Chauvin handled them the same way. I agree that Floyd had a lot of other issues and that also contributed to his death, but that doesn't mean Chauvin is also not responsible. I think giving him the highest murder charge, if that is what he was charged with, is too high. A lesser degree murder charge is more reasonable.
Agreed
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,139
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#28
Both the Baden private autopsy and the first autopsy by the county medical examiner, found the manner of death to be homicide.

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hen...hash=1DD37B049B99FAE35949ADD1D04331BD45A86D01
The county medical examiner report lists cause of death of Mr.George Floyd attributable to homicide. "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

View attachment 219127


Read the complaint charging ex-Minneapolis officer Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd
https://www.startribune.com/read-th...death-of-george-floyd/570870791/?refresh=true
A homicide requires only a volitional act by another person that results in death, and thus a homicide may result from accidental, reckless, or negligent acts even if there is no intent to cause harm.

Just saying. Intent does matter to the degree of being charged.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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#29
A homicide requires only a volitional act by another person that results in death, and thus a homicide may result from accidental, reckless, or negligent acts even if there is no intent to cause harm.

Just saying. Intent does matter to the degree of being charged.
A homicide requires only a volitional act by another person that results in death, and thus a homicide may result from accidental, reckless, or negligent acts even if there is no intent to cause harm.

Just saying. Intent does matter to the degree of being charged.
You're making a distinction but avoiding the actual charge against the accused officer in the Floyd case. Murder is what need be defined. Homicide by murder is what is at the heart of the George Floyd case.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,139
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#30
You're making a distinction but avoiding the actual charge against the accused officer in the Floyd case. Murder is what need be defined. Homicide by murder is what is at the heart of the George Floyd case.
No I specifically looking at the autopsy as to how Floyd died. The media are basically saying he was choked to death. But the autopsy says different while he is facing 3rd degree murder. What the officer did was still poor training and wrong. But if was the knee the murder weapon with all the underlying issues. That should be considered as to what killed him. Did they know he had all that in his system? Probably not. I'm really looking at the media narrative vs the autopsy. Doesn't fit in my opinion.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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#31
No I specifically looking at the autopsy as to how Floyd died. The media are basically saying he was choked to death. But the autopsy says different while he is facing 3rd degree murder. What the officer did was still poor training and wrong. But if was the knee the murder weapon with all the underlying issues. That should be considered as to what killed him. Did they know he had all that in his system? Probably not. I'm really looking at the media narrative vs the autopsy. Doesn't fit in my opinion.
They're not responsible to know what Mr.Floyd had in his system. Police are responsible for following lawful procedure in subduing a suspect. Which was violated in this case.

The autopsy does not say different as to how Mr.Floyd died.

It says the same thing the media says in simple terminology. George Floyd was choked to death while being subdued by police. The video supports this as well. Mr.Floyd lost consciousness while the officer pressing his knee to the throat of Mr.Floyd remained in place. And also, the officer had his other knee depressing his body weight upon the back of Mr.Floyd. Which would prevent Mr.Floyd from inhaling as his throat was being collapsed under the weight of the other knee.

If you go to the link I provided earlier, posted here again, https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hen...hash=1DD37B049B99FAE35949ADD1D04331BD45A86D01

You can find all the information you may wish in that twenty page report. The Cast Title lists cause of death due to police.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,139
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#32
They're not responsible to know what Mr.Floyd had in his system. Police are responsible for following lawful procedure in subduing a suspect. Which was violated in this case.

The autopsy does not say different as to how Mr.Floyd died.

It says the same thing the media says in simple terminology. George Floyd was choked to death while being subdued by police. The video supports this as well. Mr.Floyd lost consciousness while the officer pressing his knee to the throat of Mr.Floyd remained in place. And also, the officer had his other knee depressing his body weight upon the back of Mr.Floyd. Which would prevent Mr.Floyd from inhaling as his throat was being collapsed under the weight of the other knee.

If you go to the link I provided earlier, posted here again, https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hen...hash=1DD37B049B99FAE35949ADD1D04331BD45A86D01

You can find all the information you may wish in that twenty page report. The Cast Title lists cause of death due to police.
They're not responsible to know what Mr.Floyd had in his system. Police are responsible for following lawful procedure in subduing a suspect. Which was violated in this case.
True. As to why we have outside evidence like the autopsy to see what is just and unjust under the law when determining the cause of death and them the jury decides the penalty.

It says the same thing the media says in simple terminology. George Floyd was choked to death while being subdued by police.
Definitely not. It says the cardiopulmonary arrest complicated the use of force.

You can find all the information you may wish in that twenty page report. The Cast Title lists cause of death due to police.
Yes that is the autopsy in my OP's link. Much different from the independent autopsy ordered by George Floyd's family who found his death was a "homicide caused by asphyxia due to neck and back compression that led to a lack of blood flow to the brain."
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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#33
True. As to why we have outside evidence like the autopsy to see what is just and unjust under the law when determining the cause of death and them the jury decides the penalty.
The cause of death was determined. Otherwise, the officer responsible, seen depressing his weight upon the back and neck of Mr.Floyd, would not have been arrested for murder.


Definitely not. It says the cardiopulmonary arrest complicated the use of force.
That's not what it says on the image I shared twice in this discussion. A medical examiner cannot determine homicide on that paperwork. What the ME can do is do precisely what was stated in the Case Title. It puts the responsibility for the decedents demise on law enforcement. George Floyd's heart stopped beating, he stopped breathing, because of law enforcement restraint. That's what is said in the Case Title. Cardiopulmonary arrest is not a heart attack.


Yes that is the autopsy in my OP's link. Much different from the independent autopsy ordered by George Floyd's family who found his death was a "homicide caused by asphyxia due to neck and back compression that led to a lack of blood flow to the brain."
Even Dr.Baden said he did not have all of George Floyd to test. A secondary independent autopsy does not guarantee that independent medical examiner all the major organs and tissues excised from the body of the decedent.
I learned all this from reading about Mr. Floyd's death at the hands of law enforcement. I think I owe it to him and his family if I'm going to talk about his murder, to know how he was murdered.


https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/working-stiff/86913
Following a press conference on June 1 about the second autopsy, Baden admitted that portions of Floyd's organs were indeed missing, and that he didn't have access to the results from toxicology testing. Soon after, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner issued a press release, and subsequent to that, the full autopsy report, which indicated that the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression," and that the manner of death was homicide. They listed arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease, fentanyl intoxication, and recent methamphetamine use as other significant conditions contributing to death.
 
Apr 29, 2012
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#34

ev4989

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
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#35
The cause of death was determined. Otherwise, the officer responsible, seen depressing his weight upon the back and neck of Mr.Floyd, would not have been arrested for murder.


That's not what it says on the image I shared twice in this discussion. A medical examiner cannot determine homicide on that paperwork. What the ME can do is do precisely what was stated in the Case Title. It puts the responsibility for the decedents demise on law enforcement. George Floyd's heart stopped beating, he stopped breathing, because of law enforcement restraint. That's what is said in the Case Title. Cardiopulmonary arrest is not a heart attack.



Even Dr.Baden said he did not have all of George Floyd to test. A secondary independent autopsy does not guarantee that independent medical examiner all the major organs and tissues excised from the body of the decedent.
I learned all this from reading about Mr. Floyd's death at the hands of law enforcement. I think I owe it to him and his family if I'm going to talk about his murder, to know how he was murdered.


https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/working-stiff/86913
Following a press conference on June 1 about the second autopsy, Baden admitted that portions of Floyd's organs were indeed missing, and that he didn't have access to the results from toxicology testing. Soon after, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner issued a press release, and subsequent to that, the full autopsy report, which indicated that the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression," and that the manner of death was homicide. They listed arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease, fentanyl intoxication, and recent methamphetamine use as other significant conditions contributing to death.
How could this possible still be an issue with all the other matters going on in this country?
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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#36
How could this possible still be an issue with all the other matters going on in this country?
One of the matters going on in this country is police brutality. A major issue is police killing people in front of witnesses capturing the murder on their phones, and the police in the frame of those phones not caring one bit.
I think that's a major issue today.
Being strangled to death under the knees of a cop who had issues with his victim. Yeah, yeah, I think, I could be wrong, that that's a major issue in this country today.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#37
I'm not trying to be a smart a** but what difference does it make?

Responsibility for the death is still on the police regardless - isn't it?
The charges would be the same - right?
The reason police across the country are questioning why the difference in autopsies is because let say an officer does everything right and has to taze a man, and he does because of something internal maybe not responding good to the tazer. Then they can be charged with 3rd degree murder. No one is advocating that the use of force was a proper technique.

Really this is just teetering on the line that if anything goes wrong and the cops are involved then they will be charged no matter the event. Just looked what happened in Atlanta as the officer shot a man who was beating them, stole hid tazer, and tried to have the officer before being shot and killed.

Sometimes things go bad in that type of work even if they do everything right. Just as Drs are defended from the few times they lose a patient.
 
Apr 29, 2012
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#39
The autopsy report shown in previous posts has been deleted or moved from that site.
Here's a download someone may be able to open - idk.
 

Attachments

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#40
It is amazing that we live in probably the most anti racist country in the world where people have to create racist narratives to try and divide. Pop singer on the way to Subway gets beaten by white men wearing maga hats, they put a noose on his neck. False. Nascar driver gets moved to tears as a noose was found hanging from garage door. False. Police are systematic racist. False. Little white boy looks disrespectful while older Indian man peacefully beats drum in his face. False.


LEAKED VIDEO EXPOSES GEORGE FLOYD’S DEATH AS TRAGEDY AND RACE HOAX USED TO DIVIDE US
by
JASON WHITLOCK


https://www.outkick.com/george-floy...ut-race-will-nbactivists-actually-admit-that/