What does the word 'rapture' mean to you?

[peterT]

now I think you need to store up some rice. .

No need to store up rice.

Have you ever heard of miracles?

Woops

There’s God feeding and protecting some of them that love and obey.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

No rice needed

 

[Grandpa]

I believe the "rapture" is a description of what happens spiritually at salvation.

I believe this happens in the present and has been on-going since the first people were saved at pentecost. I don't think this is going to be a future, one time, event. (I could be wrong about that. There could be a future one-time event that happens that people who are saved have gotten the privelege to already see or been given hope for. I'm not 100% sure exactly how that works... By the time I will know for sure, you will too )

Certain things in the bible have caused me to believe this. Such as the Lord saying the Kingdom of God is at hand. Meaning right now. If it were a one time future event I would have expected the Lord to say the Kingdom of God will be here in a time, times and half a time, or something along those lines.

I'm not a rapture expert nor have I got a phd in eschatology. Its just something I was shown as I was being saved. I'm convinced that it actually happened in the present. I suppose I could have been shown what will occur in the future. Faith is pretty awesome because it doesnt matter to faith at all whether it is present or future. For faith it just is...

I don't know of anyone else who has this same view so I can't point you to anyone who has done a big study on it. Its not really a point of contention with me like it is with some. Whether its pre-trib, post-trib, pre-wrath, post-wrath, its all the same to me. I'm not looking towards a future date or future signs. I just look back to the cross and what happens on the other side of that.

 

[FORHISGLORY]

Rapture doesn't refer to salvation. It doesn't even appear in scripture. The word rapture comes from the Latin rapio. It means to be caught up.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

No need to store up rice.

Have you ever heard of miracles?

Woops

There’s God feeding and protecting some of them that love and obey.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

No rice needed

I believe the pretrib is a miracle. Truly you think that God is going to separate you from this wrath. Better call Jim.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Lol I don't care about my body honestly; whether I starve to death or be vaporized by the fire. I just care that my soul is good with God. Food storage, water, all that jazz, God will provide to those who are to endure to the end, which are only the 144,000 living saints. The rest of us got to face the first death ( physical,) but through God's true blood we encounter the 2nd one ( spiritual death.)

Just need to have enough oil to meet the bridegroom, and some good fruits to present to God

I don't care about myself either. But I really don't want to see my children killed or starve to death.

 

[peterT]

I believe the pretrib is a miracle. Truly you think that God is going to separate you from this wrath. Better call Jim.

Yep.

The wrath of God comes on the wicked people that have the mark of the beast NOT on God’s children

1 Thessalonians 5:9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

We are in the heavens or some place when the 7 plagues come "AFTER" getting the victory over the beast and his mark

There we are stand on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast AFTER the last trumpet Then the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out the wrath of God upon the people that have the mark of the beast.

Rv15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

As you can see we are in the heavens or some place AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his mark and before the wrath is poured out on the people that have the mark of the beast


Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Two questions posttribbers can't answer.
1. Where do they people come from that Christ and the saints reign over for 1,000 years

2. Why at the end of the 1,000 years that Satan is released from the pit for a little season and convinces the nations to war against Christ.

REV 20

 

[peterT]

Two questions posttribbers can't answer.
1. Where do they people come from that Christ and the saints reign over for 1,000 years

2. Why at the end of the 1,000 years that Satan is released from the pit for a little season and convinces the nations to war against Christ.

REV 20

Answer Z question We have Vays of making you talk.

Your question has been answered a 100 time

And what as it got to do with this thread?

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

I haven't seen an intelligible answer. Don't give me ecstasy okay, please. You know that was the truth serame that the germans and US used. I think it was called MDA back then.

 

[chasten]

Have you read Revelation, you can not buy or sell unless you take the mark. Do you farm and grow your own food. How will you get work. Can't buy gas for your car. What if you get a headache, where will you buy aspirin. Think. will God pour His wrath on people that trust Him. Find it in the OT.

Thats ridiculous. America is a slave to its own system. They will NEVER get rid of cash. Not with inflation, and how they NEED to keep printing off money. Now if your like the majority of the country, and use credit cards, then yeah, your Sol. But if your too poor to own a credit card, or too wealthy to absolutely NEED one, we'll be just fine, thanks.

 

[GRA]

I perceive that a lot of misunderstanding in discussions including the topic / idea of 'rapture' - in the forums AND in the chat rooms - is due to the variation in understanding of what the term means to different individuals...

So - I thought I would put the question to you:

"What do you consider the d e f i n i t i o n of the word 'rapture' to be?"

Please wait for the poll!

( I am withholding certain comments until after more votes / posts have been added... )

"I suppose I should throw this in now -- before it all gets out of hand..."

I set this poll up this way on purpose - to make a point. I voted for the first item on the list:

the "catching up" of the saints

And, this is why...

I firmly believe that "every eye shall see it" and that it will occur 'post-trib' (or, 'pre-wrath') and at/after 'second-coming'; however -- I do not believe that these things should be part of the d e f i n i t i o n of the word 'rapture'. All of these things are "miscellaneous extraneous details" that have absolutely nothing [directly] to do with what the 'rapture' IS. They are only indirectly related:

[direct] definition of 'rapture' -> the "catching up" of the saints

who: the saints
what: "catching up"

That's it. That's all. Nothing else is included. ( other than -- where: in the clouds / in the air -- but, that is understood as part of the idea of "catching up" - as it is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 )

The definition of 'rapture' does not "speak to" anything else.

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ~ 1 Thessalonians 4:17

The word 'rapture' is based on the phrase in this color in the verse above.

It defines 'who' and 'what' ( which includes 'where' ) -- and nothing else.

Everything else is just [indirect] associated / related details about the rapture:

when: 'pre-trib' / 'mid-trib' / 'post-trib' ; before / at / after 'second-coming'
manner: "every eye shall see it" / "in secret"

What the 'rapture' IS -- is only 'who' and 'what'...

Just imagine how much misunderstanding could be avoided if people would just not ADD to the "base" definition of 'rapture' ( "catching up" ) as it is described in scripture...

 

[GRA]

Please -- let's not get the entire End Times Scenario into this thread -- let's stay focused on the definition of 'rapture'...

Thanks!

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Answer Z question We have Vays of making you talk.

Your question has been answered a 100 time

And what as it got to do with this thread?

I know that y'all will say that it those that overcame the beast and did not take the mark. These are the people that live in 1,000 year reign. Let me ask y'all something. When did Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Samuel, David, Nathan, Obadiah, Ezekiel, Habakkuk, Zechariah, Ruth, Esther, Malachi, Nahum, or Michah, just to name a few, when did they overcome the beast?

 

[GRA]

This really should go in another thread. But...

getting the victory over the beast and his mark

I know that y'all will say that it those that overcame the beast and did not take the mark.

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. ~ Revelation 15:2

Do you understand what the 'victory' actually is in this verse? It is "not accepting the mark, not worshipping the beast, not worshipping his image, etc." ( after having faced it - and, having been forced to make a decision - and, having made the right one ) -- the victory is in dying without having done any of these things (which Satan would like for you to do).

People will be martyred for not doing any of these things. The victory is in NOT "giving in" to the mark (specifically) -- "going all the way to death" without "giving in" to the mark. At the moment of death --- victory!!!

Death is a vital requirement for this 'victory' -- "by definition" -- it cannot be obtained any other way.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. ~ Revelation 12:11

These are the people that live in 1,000 year reign.

Uh - No.

When did Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Samuel, David, Nathan, Obadiah, Ezekiel, Habakkuk, Zechariah, Ruth, Esther, Malachi, Nahum, or Michah, just to name a few, when did they overcome the beast?

They didn't. They didn't have to. See above.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

GRA, the victory is in faith of the work of the cross " and they overcame him by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony". That's how the OT saints overcame and thats how we overcome.

 

[peterT]

This really should go in another thread. But...

.

NO I think it perfect for this thread because its still about the rapture and even you are commenting on it.

This really should go in another thread. But...


And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. ~ Revelation 15:2

Do you understand what the 'victory' actually is in this verse? It is "not accepting the mark, not worshipping the beast, not worshipping his image, etc." ( after having faced it - and, having been forced to make a decision - and, having made the right one ) -- the victory is in dying without having done any of these things (which Satan would like for you to do).

People will be martyred for not doing any of these things. The victory is in NOT "giving in" to the mark (specifically) -- "going all the way to death" without "giving in" to the mark. At the moment of death --- victory!!!

Death is a vital requirement for this 'victory' -- "by definition" -- it cannot be obtained any other way.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. ~ Revelation 12:11


.

I know what you are getting at. “you think we don’t go anywhere when Jesus comes”

I don’t think so, we do go somewhere in the clouds in the air for a start.

We are altogether after the tribulation (dead first then we which are alive) after the tribulation and before the wrath is poured out.

we also are on the sea of glass. Because every true Christian has the victory that as been faithful to Christ to the end of their lives. “VICTORY”

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Faith is the victory for the living and those that died

And there is time no longer when the seventh angel sounds and we are altogether to meet him in the air in the clouds .

Plus

They that come out of great tribulation made white by the blood of the lamb are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple.

And It can’t be just the dead that serve day and night in his temple

Rv7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.


Plus.

The 1000 years is not only for the ones that get the victory over the beast and his image and his mark, it’s for all that kept faith and have the victory in Christ, otherwise if you die in the lord today you wouldn’t get to live and reign with Christ a thousand years.

Rom14:8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Death is a vital requirement for this 'victory' -- "by definition" -- it cannot be obtained any other way.


.

No its faith that is vital requirement for this 'victory'

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

 

[RickyZ]

GRA, didja really think you were going to pose such a question and not have it go beyond topic?

 

[peterT]

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. ~ Revelation 15:2

Do you understand what the 'victory' actually is in this verse? It is "not accepting the mark, not worshipping the beast, not worshipping his image, etc." ( after having faced it - and, having been forced to make a decision - and, having made the right one ) -- the victory is in dying without having done any of these things (which Satan would like for you to do).

People will be martyred for not doing any of these things. The victory is in NOT "giving in" to the mark (specifically) -- "going all the way to death" without "giving in" to the mark. At the moment of death --- victory!!!

Death is a vital requirement for this 'victory' -- "by definition" -- it cannot be obtained any other way.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. ~ Revelation 12:11


.

Yes we do go somewhere at the last trumpet, at the rapture, and the dead and the living meat together with Jesus in the air in the clouds.

We are all one in Christ and the dead are not the only ones that stand on the sea of glass, or are redeemed from the earth, or get to stand before the throne of God and serve him day and night.

It’s a penny whether you start early or whether you start late whether you died 100 years ago or died in the tribulation or are still living

Matt20:2And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.3And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,4And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.5Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.6And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?13But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?14Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

And David and his men shared the spoil for the ones that stayed by the stuff, and the ones that went into battle.
.
1 Samuel 30: 22Then answered all the wicked men and men of Belial, of those that went with David, and said, Because they went not with us, we will not give them ought of the spoil that we have recovered, save to every man his wife and his children, that they may lead them away, and depart.23Then said David, Ye shall not do so, my brethren, with that which the LORD hath given us, who hath preserved us, and delivered the company that came against us into our hand.24For who will hearken unto you in this matter? but as his part is that goeth down to the battle, so shall his part be that tarrieth by the stuff: they shall part alike.25And it was so from that day forward, that he made it a statute and an ordinance for Israel unto this day.

It’s a penny whether you start early or whether you start late, and the victory is in Christ whether your dead or whether you live

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

We are in the heavens when the wrath is poured out, and on the sixth vial the wicked gather together at Armageddon.

Rv1612And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
16And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

And the wicked gather together at Armageddon to fight that battle of the great day God almighty.

Then we return with Christ to that battle of the great day God almighty in Rv19.

Rv19:19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Yes we do go somewhere at the last trumpet. And then we return with Christ and make war with the kings of the earth, and their armies, that have gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse.

 

[peterT]

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. ~ Revelation 15:2

Do you understand what the 'victory' actually is in this verse? It is "not accepting the mark, not worshipping the beast, not worshipping his image, etc." ( after having faced it - and, having been forced to make a decision - and, having made the right one ) -- the victory is in dying without having done any of these things (which Satan would like for you to do).

People will be martyred for not doing any of these things. The victory is in NOT "giving in" to the mark (specifically) -- "going all the way to death" without "giving in" to the mark. At the moment of death --- victory!!!

Death is a vital requirement for this 'victory' -- "by definition" -- it cannot be obtained any other way.


.

Revelation 15:2And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

The key words here are

“Them that had gotten the victory”, and the time frame is “beast, his image, and his mark”.

Whether you died as martyrs a 100 years ago

Or whether you die of old age in the lord

Or whether you die in the tribulation.

Or whether you make it to the last day

The pay is all the same for them in the lord.

There is no special reward for dying in the tribulation

The sea of glass is for everyone at the end of the tribulation.

You say its Post trib and pre wrath and you are right.

But if you say Jesus comes in Rv19 as the rapture with sharp sword, and smite the nations, and shall rule them with a rod of iron, and THEN pours out his wrath there is something wrong,

because when the sixth angel poured out his vial/wrath, the wicked gather to make war, the kings of the earth and of the whole world, gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty, gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. But that happens after the post trib when Jesus comes with sharp sword and smites the nations.

So Rv19 is not the rapture, its Jesus returning with us to fight them that gather together to make war against him that sat on the horse.

if you think Rv19 is the rapture then the wicked know something we don’t “when he is coming” because they gather together to make war with him.

So we do go somewhere in the rapture

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Rv16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.


16And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Rv19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[ChristReconcilesAll]

"Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:17)