There is no such thing as Sola Scriptura

[RachelBibleStudent]

and about roman catholics worshipping mary...i can't speak for -all- roman catholics...but it is simply a sad fact that -some- roman catholics -do- worship mary...

as an example...here are some quotations from the 'psalter of the virgin mary'...a medieval roman catholic text attributed to bonaventura...

from marian psalm xviii..."The heavens declare your glory, O Virgin Mary"
compare with this line from the biblical psalm 19..."The heavens declare the glory of God"

from marian psalm xli..."As the hart pants after the waterbrooks, so my soul pants after your love, holy Virgin"
compare with psalm 42..."As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you, my God."

from marian psalm xc..."He who dwells in the assistance of the mother of God will abide under her protection"
compare with psalm 91..."Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty."

from marian psalm xciv..."Come, let us praise our Lady, let us make a joyful noise to the Virgin, our Savior. Let us come before her presence with jubilation and join in praising her in songs."
compare with psalm 95..."Come, let us sing for joy to the Lord; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation. Let us come before him with thanksgiving and extol him with music and song.

from marian psalm xcvii..."Sing to our Lady a new song, because she has done marvelous things."
compare with psalm 98..."Sing to the Lord a new song, for he has done marvelous things"

from marian psalm cii..."Bless, O my soul, the mother of Jesus Christ, and let all that is within me glorify her name. Forget not her benefits"
compare with psalm 103..."Praise the Lord, my soul; all my inmost being, praise his holy name. Praise the Lord, my soul, and forget not all his benefits"

from marian psalm cvi..."O give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; give thanks to His mother, because her mercy endures forever."
compare with psalm 107..."Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; his love endures forever."

from marian psalm cix..."The Lord said to my Lady: 'Sit, mother Mine, at My right hand."
compare with psalm 110..."The Lord says to my lord: 'Sit at my right hand"

from marian psalm cxvi..."Praise our Lady, all you Gentiles; glorify her, all peoples."
compare with psalm 117..."Praise the Lord, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples."

from marian psalm cxxix..."Out of the depths have I cried to you, Lady; Lady hear my voice. Let your ears be attentive to the voice of your praise and glorification."
compare with psalm 130..."Out of the depths I cry to you, Lord; Lord, hear my voice. Let your ears be attentive to my cry for mercy."

from marian psalm cxlix..."Sing to our Lady a new song, her praise in the congregation of the just."
compare with psalm 149..."Sing to the Lord a new song, his praise in the assembly of his faithful people."

from marian psalm cl..."Praise our Lady in her sanctuary"
compare with psalm 150..."Praise God in his sanctuary"

all of the 'psalter of the virgin mary' is like this...every marian psalm begins with what is basically a quotation from the corresponding biblical psalm where the name of God is replaced by a name or title of mary... after mangling all 150 psalms they go on to do the same thing to the song of moses...mary's magnificat...the song of zechariah...the song of simeon...

 

[ChristReconcilesAll]

Everybody in my family is Catholic except me and a brother who is a fundie that I finally had to block from my inbox because I got tired of his political propaganda. I let them all do their own thing, and I do mine. You can't really have a good discussion about scripture with them because that's not their reference point. So I just leave it alone for the most part.

 

[Xanthus]

So because a sister disagrees with some of your doctrine, she's not in the body of Christ? You need to lighten up, bro.

ChristReconcilesAll,

It looks like you are reading one thread somewhere else and responding here. Your posts do not seem to be connected to anything anyone is saying here.

Maybe if you used the "reply with quote" feature it would help.
?

 

[ChristReconcilesAll]

You're right, sister. I'm glad to be free from that corrupt system. I have no use for any church system anymore. The word of God is enough for me.

 

[Angela53510]

Well, I hope this thread is winding down.

Basically, the way I see it is the disagreement, as stated in the title is that "The Bible is NOT enough on its own." No Sola Scriptura.

The Catholic Church, since 400 AD or so, when it started, has gradually added to the Bible, which included church dogma, adding the Apocrypha, and traditions that are not based on Scripture.

It could get away with this, because the Bible was kept from the people, and the people could not read.

So my debt of gratitude is to the Reformers, who took the Word of God and actually began to read it in the original languages and translate it for the people into the vernacular, while Rome obscured the gospel with Latin and rites and rituals. I do not think this was a conspiracy, or plotted, but simply an example of absolute power corrupting absolutely.

Then, Martin Luther discovered Romans 5:1

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1

This one single verse (yes, read it in context and you will find it still says the same thing!!) revolutionized a church that was collapsing from within, and robbing the people, charging for indulgences to get people out of hell, so they could build palaces for bishops, archbishops and popes.

The Roman Catholic Church fought back hard, but the truth cannot be hidden forever. The truth of salvation by faith, became known and many groups in Europe and the Americans began to worship the only true and living God, Jesus Christ.

I pray that rather than raking over the coals various Catholic doctrines, we could just continue to quote the Bible. Ultimately, God did leave the Bible as our ONLY guide.

That is why I say to the OP (the post, not the banned OP person),

God has ordained his WORD to be the guide for all Christians. Any traditions of men, and churches which do not follow Sola Scriptura, is far from God.

"knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 1:20-21

 

[jinx]

I go to church regularly. I appreciate the coming together of others with such great like faith. We can pray for each other, and support each other, talk with each other, worship together. There is nothing wrong with going to church. NOTHING.

 

[Katy-follower]

Everybody in my family is Catholic except me and a brother who is a fundie that I finally had to block from my inbox because I got tired of his political propaganda. I let them all do their own thing, and I do mine. You can't really have a good discussion about scripture with them because that's not their reference point. So I just leave it alone for the most part.

As a born again believer, try having dinner with a Hindu, agnostic and Catholic. Makes for an interesting dinner conversation ... though the comment on cannibalism stayed clearly in my mind.

 

[ChristReconcilesAll]

If I had a choice in the matter, I wouldn't have been any kind of Catholic. I was born into it, but at least I wised up and got out when I saw the light. I don't recognize your so called authority because I don't care about your doctrine. The word of God is sufficient doctrine for me. You do your thing, and I'll do mine.

 

[Xanthus]

for the benefit of people who may not be following -all- of the threads where this same argument is taking place...i showed that this is a blatant misquote of the verse in another thread... http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...holic-vs-protestant-debate-9.html#post1028777

I checked. It is NOT a blatant misquote. As you once again, appear to wrongly claim, Rachel. (without including more of what is going on in the other thread)

and whence [is] this to me, that the mother of my Lord might come unto me?

and David feareth Jehovah on that day, and saith, `How doth the ark of Jehovah come in unto me?' (Youngs literal)
or
So David was afraid of the LORD that day; and he said, "How can the ark of the LORD come to me?" (NAV)


Once again, ChurchAuthority is right and Rachel is wrong unless she can explain herself better. But this looks pretty straightforward. What ChurchAuthority said was accurate.

 

[ChristReconcilesAll]

I just recently had to calm my poor Catholic dad because he was worried about how long my mom who died of Alzheimer's would be in purgatory. It's that kind of stuff that makes the church doctrine so evil.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I checked. It is NOT a blatant misquote. As you once again, appear to wrongly claim, Rachel. (without including more of what is going on in the other thread)

and whence [is] this to me, that the mother of my Lord might come unto me?

and David feareth Jehovah on that day, and saith, `How doth the ark of Jehovah come in unto me?' (Youngs literal)
or
So David was afraid of the LORD that day; and he said, "How can the ark of the LORD come to me?" (NAV)


Once again, ChurchAuthority is right and Rachel is wrong unless she can explain herself better. But this looks pretty straightforward. What ChurchAuthority said was accurate.

'how can the ark of the lord come to me?' and 'who am i that the ark of my lord should come to me?' are -not- the same thing...and in fact i could locate no bible translation that renders the text in the way he did...evidently someone saw fit to -rewrite- 2 samuel 6:9 to make it closer to luke 1:43...

 

[crossnote]

crossnote, do you not have God's type of love, what is it you all are fighting? God has poured out his LOVE to all and we are not to be seperated yet this whole world is divided in cults and Paul definately did not praise this.
These people here of the Catholic persausion have said especially 7seven7 that he loves us all here unconditionally, and you all in and of yuor own religous presausion claiming you are right and go ahead is this not of flesh? Is this of God's Spirit to only Love those that Love you?
Not trying to make things worse just looking at it from the stadium seeing the football game going on.
You know that is what going to Church is actually like going to a football game
One arrives on time at 3:00 PM and when one arrives in his tennis shorts and racket, sees oh no it is a football game and gets trampled, beat up and spit out. You know even though I do not agree with the Catholic way of worship. in all of 7seven7 posts I have not seen one railing accusation towards anyone, He has responded every time in Love. And when he has gotten a little to a lot upset, he has withdrawn himsel so that his old Flesh would not get in the way.
So please take a learning lesson herer about waht God's true LOVE is and be a doer of this as God through this man has so graciously shown. I only speak for 7seven7 here

Homeward.
I'm sorry but it is a false love that tolerates another gospel. Love may trump faith and hope but it doesn't trump God's Truth as expressed in His written word. I don't hate catholics, but I will come against their main errors.
Can you imagine what the Church would be like without sola scriptura? Think dark ages, where God's Word is suppressed and the 'authority of the Church' dictated all...a lost Gospel, superstitions abounding, ecclesiastic tyranny. Don't be fooled by wolves in sheep's clothing.

 

[Katy-follower]

Why is it that the questions in my first post went unanswered?

 

[Jesusprincess]

what??? Mary the arc??? nonsense!

 

[crossnote]

No. It doesn't and no it is not.

(time is short for many readers here. Please do us the courtesy to paste in the biblical quote and don't make us go look up your reference to see clearly how you over-reached and misread the scripture. Plus, the scripture to show where prayers to the Saints is a good thing have already been posted here. Please refute those as well.)

Install the NETBible Tagger..it sits in your browser bar and highlights the verse references on the page and when you run your mouse over the highlighted verse it displays it. I'm not sure if it has Rome's approval though.

 

[Xanthus]

Well, I hope this thread is winding down.

Basically, the way I see it is the disagreement, as stated in the title is that "The Bible is NOT enough on its own." No Sola Scriptura.

The Catholic Church, since 400 AD or so, when it started, has gradually added to the Bible, which included church dogma, adding the Apocrypha, and traditions that are not based on Scripture.

It could get away with this, because the Bible was kept from the people, and the people could not read.

So my debt of gratitude is to the Reformers, who took the Word of God and actually began to read it in the original languages and translate it for the people into the vernacular, while Rome obscured the gospel with Latin and rites and rituals. I do not think this was a conspiracy, or plotted, but simply an example of absolute power corrupting absolutely.

Then, Martin Luther discovered Romans 5:1

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1

This one single verse (yes, read it in context and you will find it still says the same thing!!) revolutionized a church that was collapsing from within, and robbing the people, charging for indulgences to get people out of hell, so they could build palaces for bishops, archbishops and popes.

The Roman Catholic Church fought back hard, but the truth cannot be hidden forever. The truth of salvation by faith, became known and many groups in Europe and the Americans began to worship the only true and living God, Jesus Christ.

I pray that rather than raking over the coals various Catholic doctrines, we could just continue to quote the Bible. Ultimately, God did leave the Bible as our ONLY guide.

That is why I say to the OP (the post, not the banned OP person),

God has ordained his WORD to be the guide for all Christians. Any traditions of men, and churches which do not follow Sola Scriptura, is far from God.

"knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 1:20-21

I think nearly every statement about the Catholic Church in your post here is FALSE.

"while Rome obscured the gospel with Latin and rites and rituals." BALONEY! Rome preserved the gospel with Latin and communicated ancient wisdom to future generations with awesomely BEAUTIFUL breathtaking rituals and rites.

(translation to vernacular has clearly multiplied confusion and misunderstanding a gazillion times over! - NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!)

Random quotes about prophecy outta nowhere mean nothing.

?

How has "The Catholic Church, since 400 AD or so, when it started, has gradually added to the Bible"?
Please explain that.

Just continually quoting badly translated Bible verses is senseless, imho. Tradition adds depth and meaning beyond the obvious limitations of mere rote, mechanical repetition of verses.

Your opinions about Sola Scriptura are just your opinions. I disagree with you.

 

[Xanthus]

Install the NETBible Tagger..it sits in your browser bar and highlights the verse references on the page and when you run your mouse over the highlighted verse it displays it. I'm not sure if it has Rome's approval though.

heheh uggghhh... "Rome's approval"... very funny... talk about scorn and mocking
(I sense large deposits of hypocrisy hereabouts)

my 5 year old pc has suffered about as many new software installs as it can handle.
I will thank you to paste in the quote (so easily available?) if you would be so kind.

 

[Katy-follower]

I'm sorry but it is a false love that tolerates another gospel. Love may trump faith and hope but it doesn't trump God's Truth as expressed in His written word. I don't hate catholics, but I will come against their main errors.
Can you imagine what the Church would be like without sola scriptura? Think dark ages, where God's Word is suppressed and the 'authority of the Church' dictated all...a lost Gospel, superstitions abounding, ecclesiastic tyranny. Don't be fooled by wolves in sheep's clothing.

I agree that we cannot compromise truth for the sake of unity and peace. In fact, this is sadly where the world is heading, with the ecumenical movement, which is the tolerance of all religions. It goes against God's word.

Not sure how to do this tactfully, but we're not here to seek the approval of men at all, we're not here to tickle ears, things must be said. I hope this is not taken the wrong way, but this post jumped out at me as believing a different gospel...

Muslims might have it right, then we're all doomed. He might........... who knows! We need to stop putting words in God's mouth and concentrate on our own soul salvation. Love eachother. Nobody can be 100% sure they have it right. So stop pretending. Peace!

 

[crossnote]

heheh uggghhh... "Rome's approval"... very funny... talk about scorn and mocking
(I sense large deposits of hypocrisy hereabouts)

my 5 year old pc has suffered about as many new software installs as it can handle.
I will thank you to paste in the quote (so easily available?) if you would be so kind.

I was only trying to be helpful giving you a time saving app to help. The joke?...I would have given it to my prot. buddies as well. That's just my style...myyy, are you guys jumpy.

 

[Xanthus]

what??? Mary the arc??? nonsense!

Your opinion is duly noted.

Perhaps you might one day see fit to share with us why you think that.

This symbolic depth to the Catholic Tradition that ChurchAuthority has gifted us with reminds me of a Star Trek episode of people who only knew how to communicate in metaphor and symbol.
"Shaka with arms open wide" or something like that.