Are there problems with the modern versions?

[Andrew1]

The Bible says in Psalms 12:6&7

6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

God promised to preserve his words, that's plural and in no way limited, this means ALL of his words. the question is how and for who's benefit? I would assume that it was for the benefit of all believers. Again it says in Deuteronomy 8:3

...man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

What this passage teaches is that we are spiritually sustained by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God. They are our spiritual nourishment. The problem is that there are many words missing from the modern versions which are based on manuscripts that a little bit of research will show have quite clearly been corrupted. One example is the in the NIV that completely removes Acts 8:37 which teaches that one must believe in order to be baptized. there are many more examples of the modern versions removing verses and partial verses of Gods life giving words. Anyone have in thoughts or comments.

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

Hey Andrew,

This section is actually more of a 'suggestion box' for improving the site. Any other personal or impersonal but general suggestions should go in their most respective forum, such as Miscellaneous or Bible Discussion, etc.

God bless.

 

[Genesis1982]

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. .... MATTHEW 5 : 18

 

[Genesis1982]

[SUP]"[/SUP]The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever" ISAIAH 40 : 8

 

[Genesis1982]

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.....

REVELATION 22 : 19

 

[Genesis1982]

Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers ....TITUS 1 : 9

 

[PilgrimUK]

Something makes me think Genesis1982 found a website with free smilies.

 

[Angela53510]

Of course there are "problems" with modern versions, because they are not the original languages!

The KJV is pretty modern too! Only written 400 years ago, in Middle English, using manuscripts which were not the most ancient, or closest to the time of Christ. The translators also relied on the Byzantine manuscripts, which were the majority of texts, simply because they still spoke Greek, hence more copies. Sadly, the Greeks did like to embellish, and that is why there are many questionable verses in the KJV. Because they were added by the Greeks, sometimes with the best intentions.

I read many versions, and I have a lot of KJV memorized, because when I was young, that was the only version we had. God's word comes through all of them, at least where salvation is concerned. However, for sound doctrine, it really is necessary to consult the originals, as the bias of the translator comes through pretty strong in many areas of the translations.

Try and remember the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek, with a little Aramaic in places in the Old Testament, and that all versions in any other languages are just the best attempt at trying to translate, and you will not go far wrong!

 

[Genesis1982]

Something makes me think Genesis1982 found

hehe yes these smileys I down on "post smile" a few days ago ... are very easy to down and use ... God bless you

 

[RedTent]

Of course there are "problems" with modern versions, because they are not the original languages!

The KJV is pretty modern too! Only written 400 years ago, in Middle English, using manuscripts which were not the most ancient, or closest to the time of Christ. The translators also relied on the Byzantine manuscripts, which were the majority of texts, simply because they still spoke Greek, hence more copies. Sadly, the Greeks did like to embellish, and that is why there are many questionable verses in the KJV. Because they were added by the Greeks, sometimes with the best intentions.

I read many versions, and I have a lot of KJV memorized, because when I was young, that was the only version we had. God's word comes through all of them, at least where salvation is concerned. However, for sound doctrine, it really is necessary to consult the originals, as the bias of the translator comes through pretty strong in many areas of the translations.

Try and remember the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek, with a little Aramaic in places in the Old Testament, and that all versions in any other languages are just the best attempt at trying to translate, and you will not go far wrong!

I wish every Christian knew and believed this.

There are some wonderful things about our modern world. Not long ago (for me at 87) there wouldn't be a chance that I could look into the original language. Only one in a thousand people (my guess not fact) knew of Strong's even. For me to have researched history of any ancient times I would have had to travel miles and miles and spent days in archives.

I remember when the dead sea scrolls were discovered. Most people knew that scribes copied the bible by hand at first, and there were real questions about their accuracy. Our newspapers said that those scrolls showed Isaiah almost the very same as it was today, and boy, was that news.

We are blessed, today, with many translations so we can compare one with the other. And we are so blessed with the information we can use to learn about God. We have only to turn a blind eye to all the information about what different men think God says.

 

[Andrew1]

We must first understand that God promised to preserve his words, however he did not promise to preserve the manuscripts they were written on. The original copies no longer exist. That MUST mean that they have been preserved elsewhere. The manuscripts used to translate the modern versions are not only few, but contradictory to each-other. The original language is useless unless you have accurate copies OF the originals. There are over five thousand manuscripts that are copies of copies. The majority reading is a legitimate way to determine accuracy. Far more legitimate then using manuscripts that if you've ever seen them contain clear and obvious corrections and relying on their early date. One of these copies was sitting in the Vatican library When Desideris Erasmus compiled the Textus Receptus that the King James New Testament is based on who rejected it. It is a sad thing if Christians today need some Greek and Hebrew scholar to tell us what the Bible means. I believe God gave me an accurate copy and I can read it has zero mistakes, PRAISE GOD, he is able to preserve his words, every single one of them.

 

[4enlightment]

[video=youtube_share;1XPR14pI5qI]http://youtu.be/1XPR14pI5qI[/video]


Food for our thoughts...

 

[Bookreader]

there are many more examples of the modern versions removing verses and partial verses of Gods life giving words. Anyone have in thoughts or comments.

And there are examples of words, or even entire sub-verses being added to older versions of the Bible (the Johanine comma in the KJV is a well-known error based upon more recent texts but missing in all the oldest texts - i.e. added).

There are decisions made by translators as to which texts to use, which to ignore totally and which to give preference to.
400 years ago some of the texts had not yet been found - and so it would be unfair to expect them to be included.

It is not as clear cut as many pretend it is.
That is why translations are usually done by panels of experts in the language and the original texts.

It is funny though that you quote something which would today not necessarily mean what it could mean...

...man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Every word that comes out of my mouth can be construed as every single word, or every meaning.
At least that is the case in English.

Not sure about the Hebrew or Greek.

That is, of course, another problem the translators have and one many fail at sadly. The Bible was written 1900-3000 years ago. In Judea. How people said things there and then is not how we say things here and now.
So many things are not understood in the most literal translations. However the less literal translations often assume too much and change the idea to match what the translator thinks.
Bias is inherent in some Bible translations.
To be honest I expect bias exists in all Bible translations.

 

[RedTent]

Bookreader said:

That is, of course, another problem the translators have and one many fail at sadly. The Bible was written 1900-3000 years ago. In Judea. How people said things there and then is not how we say things here and now.
So many things are not understood in the most literal translations. However the less literal translations often assume too much and change the idea to match what the translator thinks.
Bias is inherent in some Bible translations.

How true this is. How blessed we are with the history we now have, as inaccurate as some of it is, it still helps. It isn't only the translators who need to know how they thought and said things, but the reader also needs to know in order to understand. For instance, when people read the epistles as if they were letters sent to us personally in 2013 without knowing or caring about the people they were written to and what their world was like. Of course, it only mixes them up.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

We must first understand that God promised to preserve his words, however he did not promise to preserve the manuscripts they were written on. The original copies no longer exist. That MUST mean that they have been preserved elsewhere. The manuscripts used to translate the modern versions are not only few, but contradictory to each-other. The original language is useless unless you have accurate copies OF the originals. There are over five thousand manuscripts that are copies of copies. The majority reading is a legitimate way to determine accuracy. Far more legitimate then using manuscripts that if you've ever seen them contain clear and obvious corrections and relying on their early date. One of these copies was sitting in the Vatican library When Desideris Erasmus compiled the Textus Receptus that the King James New Testament is based on who rejected it. It is a sad thing if Christians today need some Greek and Hebrew scholar to tell us what the Bible means. I believe God gave me an accurate copy and I can read it has zero mistakes, PRAISE GOD, he is able to preserve his words, every single one of them.

Amen Brother. Well said. I too believe that I have a perfect and infallibe Bible in my hands. God is a God of order. And His word, the King James Bible is a Book of Numerical Order. The term "Godhead" appears 3 times in the Authorized Version. Coincedence? I think not. Also. The word "Church" appears 77 times in the Authorized Version. Another Coincedence? Again, I think not. Check out this list of more words and phrases that either appear 7 times or a number that is a multiple of 7:


Kingdom of God: 70 times in the New Testament.

Assembly: 49 times.

Bride: 14 times

Firstfruits: 7 times

Daughter of Zion (or Sion): 28 times (7x4)

Daughter of Jerusalem: 7 times

Children of Israel: 644 times (7x92)

Congregation: 49 times in Exodus

Tabernacle of the Congregation: 21 times in Exodus and 56 times in Numbers (7x8)

Witnesses: 49 times

Fishers: 7 times

Peculiar: 7 times

Kinsmen: 7 times

Worshippers: 7 times

Workmanship: 7 times

 

[Andrew1]

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye HAVE BEEN taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we... [the Apostles]
...HAVE PREACHED unto you, let him be accursed.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be AS gODS, knowing good and evil.

 

[Andrew1]

The fact is God promised to preserve his words. The question is if we don't have the original copies then how can you be 100% sure the Johahnine comma doesn't belong right where it is. Is it not possible the King James Bible translators knew something you don't?

The texts that have been found later on are few in number compared to the 5000 texts found all over the world that have no direct association to each-other that happen to agree. The majority reading must rule as it is the most scientific approach to translating the Bible.

If
'...man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live'
doesn't mean exactly what it sounds like it means then we as Christians are in trouble, because then nobody can know what the Bible says.

 

[Andrew1]

[video=youtube_share;1XPR14pI5qI]http://youtu.be/1XPR14pI5qI[/video]


Food for our thoughts...

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye HAVE BEEN taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we... [the Apostles]
...HAVE PREACHED unto you, let him be accursed.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be AS gODS, knowing good and evil.

I meant to quote these verses with this message. 4 enlightenment the things in this youtube video are dangerous and unscriptural.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

The Bible says in Psalms 12:6&7

6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

God promised to preserve his words, that's plural and in no way limited, this means ALL of his words. the question is how and for who's benefit? I would assume that it was for the benefit of all believers. Again it says in Deuteronomy 8:3

...man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

What this passage teaches is that we are spiritually sustained by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God. They are our spiritual nourishment. The problem is that there are many words missing from the modern versions which are based on manuscripts that a little bit of research will show have quite clearly been corrupted. One example is the in the NIV that completely removes Acts 8:37 which teaches that one must believe in order to be baptized. there are many more examples of the modern versions removing verses and partial verses of Gods life giving words. Anyone have in thoughts or comments.

One of the serious errors that are Contained in the modern translations is their removal of the phrase: "without a cause" in Matthew 5:22. And this error turns Jesus into a sinner in the modern versions. Here just a small sample of the modern versions which take out the phrase: "without a cause."



New International Version (©2011) But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

New Living Translation (©2007) But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.

English Standard Version (©2001) But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

New American Standard Bible (©1995) "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009) But I tell you, everyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Fool!' will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But whoever says, You moron!' will be subject to hellfire.


NET Bible (©2006) But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says 'Fool' will be sent to fiery hell.

As you can see, all 6 of these modern translations remove the phrase: "without a cause." Hence they turn Jesus into a sinner with their removal of "without a cause."

Now Here is the correct and True reading of Matthew 5:22:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

And we know that when Jesus had became angry in Mark 3:5, that he had a cause for his anger.

 

[Andrew1]

One of the serious errors that are Contained in the modern translations is their removal of the phrase: "without a cause" in Matthew 5:22. And this error turns Jesus into a sinner in the modern versions. Here just a small sample of the modern versions which take out the phrase: "without a cause."



New International Version (©2011) But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

New Living Translation (©2007) But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.

English Standard Version (©2001) But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

New American Standard Bible (©1995) "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009) But I tell you, everyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Fool!' will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But whoever says, You moron!' will be subject to hellfire.


NET Bible (©2006) But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says 'Fool' will be sent to fiery hell.

As you can see, all 6 of these modern translations remove the phrase: "without a cause." Hence they turn Jesus into a sinner with their removal of "without a cause."

Now Here is the correct and True reading of Matthew 5:22:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

And we know that when Jesus had became angry in Mark 3:5, that he had a cause for his anger.

Also in John where Jesus said in John 7:8,

'I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.' (KJB)

The modern versions remove the first instance of the word 'yet' in this verse but in verse 10 it then says,

'But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. (KJB)

If Jesus did not say "yet" in this place that makes him a liar.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]You go to the festival. I am not [...?..] going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” [SUP]9 [/SUP]After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. (Not Inspired Version)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]You go on. I’m not going [...?...] to this festival, because my time has not yet come. [Not Living Translation]


[SUP]8 [/SUP]Go to the festival yourselves. I am not [...?...]going to this festival, for my time has not yet fully come.” [New Reviled Substandard Perversion]