Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[jody50]

One is not a believer apart from the Holy Spirit. It is the entrance of the Holy Spirit that makes us a new creature in Christ.

I'm sorry but water baptism is not a command necessary for salvation. Water baptism is a sacrament like communion reserved only for those who are saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto eternal life. It is for believers only and has nothing to do with salvation. The blood of Christ is wholly sufficient to save. Atonement is made we receive the benefits the moment we believe and ask the Lord to save us.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

No where in the Bible does it say water baptism is a sacrament like anything. However, it does say in Acts 2:38 "Repent and be BAPTIZED everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS". Why is that so hard to believe. God said it not me. I Peter 3:21 says " Baptism does now also SAVE us," In all the conversions in the book of Acts they were baptized. The blood of Christ does save us IF we obey His commands. God said if you love Me you WILL obey My commands.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

does Romans 6 mention baptism with/by fire?
that was the question.

the meaning/application of baptism is determined by the context.


prophecies of fire per judgment:

Isaiah 5:24
Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the LORD Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 66:24
"And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."



and here is a pretty strong argument for baptizing with fire done by The LORD.

the prophecy c.711BC

Isaiah 61:2
He has sent me to tell those who mourn that the time of the LORD's favor has come, and with it, the day of God's anger against their enemies.
NLT

Isaiah 61
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me,
because the LORD has anointed me
to bring good news to the poor;a
he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim liberty to the captives,
and the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor,
and the day of vengeance of our God;
ESV


the partial fulfillment of Isaiah:


Luke 4
Jesus Begins His Ministry
14And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and a report about him went out through all the surrounding country. 15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified by all.

Jesus Rejected at Nazareth
16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was his custom, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and he stood up to read. 17And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

20And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down.

....

He intentionally did not read this part:

and the day of vengeance of our God.


....

so what is John saying here - about Jesus baptizing with the Holy Spirit, and with fire?:

Matthew 3
The Preaching of John the Baptist

1Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying,2“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

3For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet when he said,
“THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,
‘MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,
MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT!’”

4Now John himself had a garment of camel’s hair and a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey.5Then Jerusalem was going out to him, and all Judea and all the district around the Jordan;6and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins.

7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8“Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;9and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.10“The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

11“As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.12“His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”


sound likes some will be baptized with the Holy Spirit; and some with fire.
doesn't it?

whenever i see people with loud praise bands, and working themselves into ecstatic states calling for FIRE, i just cringe.

Everything you have said is accurate and true, but for you seeing only a one-sided purpose to what God is doing.

Baptism is dipping something in and a pulling something out. Homward is 100% correct that we are dipped into Christ as sinners where then sin is destroyed and a new creature is enabled to arise up and out.

Clearly Noah and seven others did not remain forever in the Ark which saved them. They remained there as long as was necessary to get them to the place where God would give them blessing and rest away from that flood.

And this is where we all need to follow that advice you gave about considering the context. In the context of Romans 6 we are clearly not to stay in his death forever but only the flesh which was destroyed by that death, so that we live and rise as a new creature, "CREATED IN CHRIST." No longer in Christ's death, but arisen to a new life with Christ, a life that is one with the life that is in him so that the life that is IN him is also IN us as a new creation of God. Being in his death allowed the creation of that new creature that it could rise up out of that death, which many are failing to do, being improperly educated as to how this works.

zone, believe it fully when it is said of God, " Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4)

zone, believe it fully when it is said of God, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)

Factor that into what God is doing and see why it is possible to, "... others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." (Jude 1:23)

We are flatly told there at 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9 that God has no desire to destroy people, even as, Ezekiel 33:11 "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"

Do not allow God to be seen as a destroy in your mind. He is a God of life, not a God of death.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Homward used a most beautiful illustration showing this about the green as yet not ripened apple. It is the new creature risen up out of Christ's death and perfect at it's present development as that is how it was supposed to be. The first Adam before he sinned was as that green as yet unripened apple.

The new creature does not stop drawing life from God through Christ else it would wither and die rather than grow on to full ripeness of maturity. He would then end up just as did Adam. But by continuing to draw life through the life that is Jesus, he eventually becomes matured as Jesus is mature.

Jesus is the trunk of the tree and he has his roots set in God where from he is able to draw life for all attached to him.

 

[zone]

Everything you have said is accurate and true, but for you seeing only a one-sided purpose to what God is doing.

Baptism is dipping something in and a pulling something out. Homward is 100% correct that we are dipped into Christ as sinners where then sin is destroyed and a new creature is enabled to arise up and out.

Clearly Noah and seven others did not remain forever in the Ark which saved them. They remained there as long as was necessary to get them to the place where God would give them blessing and rest away from that flood.

And this is where we all need to follow that advice you gave about considering the context. In the context of Romans 6 we are clearly not to stay in his death forever but only the flesh which was destroyed by that death, so that we live and rise as a new creature, "CREATED IN CHRIST." No longer in Christ's death, but arisen to a new life with Christ, a life that is one with the life that is in him so that the life that is IN him is also IN us as a new creation of God. Being in his death allowed the creation of that new creature that it could rise up out of that death, which many are failing to do, being improperly educated as to how this works.

zone, believe it fully when it is said of God, " Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4)

zone, believe it fully when it is said of God, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)

Factor that into what God is doing and see why it is possible to, "... others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." (Jude 1:23)

We are flatly told there at 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9 that God has no desire to destroy people, even as, Ezekiel 33:11 "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"

Do not allow God to be seen as a destroy in your mind. He is a God of life, not a God of death.

this is the 4th time i am asking:

Does Romans 6 mention baptism by fire.

also, as home said clearly....

does the Bible ANYWHERE say our sins are burned away by baptism by fire?

it's just a simple question.

also - are you teaching universal salvation?

 

[zone]

Homward used a most beautiful illustration showing this about the green as yet not ripened apple. It is the new creature risen up out of Christ's death and perfect at it's present development as that is how it was supposed to be. The first Adam before he sinned was as that green as yet unripened apple.

The new creature does not stop drawing life from God through Christ else it would wither and die rather than grow on to full ripeness of maturity. He would then end up just as did Adam. But by continuing to draw life through the life that is Jesus, he eventually becomes matured as Jesus is mature.

Jesus is the trunk of the tree and he has his roots set in God where from he is able to draw life for all attached to him.

home is entitled to wax eloquently about God's Plan, as are you....if that's your approach to answering straight-forward questions about what THE BIBLE actually says.

5th time:

does Romans 6 describe baptism by fire?
in any way shape or form.

the answer is no....so leave it at that (unless you see a coded secret reference to it...if so - where is it)?

 

[notuptome]

No where in the Bible does it say water baptism is a sacrament like anything. However, it does say in Acts 2:38 "Repent and be BAPTIZED everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS". Why is that so hard to believe. God said it not me. I Peter 3:21 says " Baptism does now also SAVE us," In all the conversions in the book of Acts they were baptized. The blood of Christ does save us IF we obey His commands. God said if you love Me you WILL obey My commands.

The only baptism that saves is the Holy Spirit baptism every believer receives the moment they ask Christ to forgive them for their sins. Water baptism cannot save. Water baptism like the bread and the cup of the Lords table are sacraments that believers partake of because they are believers not to become believers.
Break down Acts 2:38 and tell me from the text what baptism is being commanded. Water or Holy Spirit?
In the book of Acts Christians were baptized in water after they had received Christ as their Saviour. They had already received the Holy Spirit baptism the moment they believed. Belief first Holy Spirit baptism which is essential then water baptism which is a privilege for believers.
Well what in the world is Peter teaching in 1 Pet 3:21? Did the flood waters save Noah? Since we have him describing water baptism as a figure to the cleansing our consciences as God cleansed the world of sinful mankind I think the ark who is Christ did the saving. The Holy Spirit in figure of the pitch within and without the ark. Simply to say that Peter is not teaching water baptism as salvitic.
We can never add anything to the blood of Christ. Christ's blood is wholly sufficient to atone for our sin. There is no if in salvation. All we can do is believe and receive. We cannot add to Christ's finished work.
Now after we are saved we are His workmanship created unto good works so we can have water baptism but not as a requirement.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Everything you have said is accurate and true, but for you seeing only a one-sided purpose to what God is doing.

It is one sided. Glory to God. Christ did all that was necessary. We can do nothing and we can add nothing to what Christ has done.
2 Cor 5:21 For He hath made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. Now how you gonna beat that? Hint can't be done. God did it.
Hey I been to the cement pond so all the world can see that I believe in Christ. I am identified with His death, burial and resurrection. Glory to God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kardiaoangelous]

It is one sided. Glory to God. Christ did all that was necessary. We can do nothing and we can add nothing to what Christ has done.
2 Cor 5:21 For He hath made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. Now how you gonna beat that? Hint can't be done. God did it.
Hey I been to the cement pond so all the world can see that I believe in Christ. I am identified with His death, burial and resurrection. Glory to God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I was addressing specifically the way zone is seeing God's purpose in the baptism by fire. She seems to see that it only destroys and seems to discount that the very same baptism is also about refining. And so she seems to think that the baptism into Christ's death and that baptism by fire must always be totally separate. But the reality is that it is only in the baptism into Christs death that the baptism by fire can work to generate that new creature. And that new creature is able to receive the baptism by spirit. Life only begins with the new creature.

I think you know that.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

2 Cor 5:21 "For He hath made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."

Actually that says, "For God has made his Son who knew no sin to become sin for us that we might be made that righteousness of God that is in the Son."

Those that fail to teach that are bringing the curse to themselves by confusing God's plan to peoples' minds.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

home is entitled to wax eloquently about God's Plan, as are you....if that's your approach to answering straight-forward questions about what THE BIBLE actually says.

5th time:

does Romans 6 describe baptism by fire?
in any way shape or form.

the answer is no....so leave it at that (unless you see a coded secret reference to it...if so - where is it)?

What if home's understanding is incomplete? Does that make your understanding complete?

I know that you will agree the answer there is, "No."

Word games are being played among the many. I know you see that, also. But can we see our own part to which each of us play that word game, while recognizing it in others?

The word game is making the truth difficult to be found as the word game only nourishes confusion which causes many to give up even trying.

 

[zone]

I was addressing specifically the way zone is seeing God's purpose in the baptism by fire. She seems to see that it only destroys and seems to discount that the very same baptism is also about refining. And so she seems to think that the baptism into Christ's death and that baptism by fire must always be totally separate. But the reality is that it is only in the baptism into Christs death that the baptism by fire can work to generate that new creature. And that new creature is able to receive the baptism by spirit. Life only begins with the new creature.

I think you know that.

does Romans 6 mention baptism with/by fire?
that was the question.

......

so what is John saying here - about Jesus baptizing with the Holy Spirit, and with fire?:

Matthew 3
The Preaching of John the Baptist

1Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying,2“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

3For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet when he said,
“THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,
‘MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,
MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT!’”

4Now John himself had a garment of camel’s hair and a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey.5Then Jerusalem was going out to him, and all Judea and all the district around the Jordan;6and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins.

7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8“Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;9and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.10“The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

11“As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.12“His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”



IMMEDIATE AND ONLY CONTEXT OF BAPTISM WITH FIRE.


sound likes some will be baptized with the Holy Spirit; and some with fire.

doesn't it?

Leviticus 21
...I the LORD, who sanctifies you, am holy.9 ‘Also the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by harlotry, she profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.



Revelation 17
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

~

the ten horns were the ten caesars - TITUS being the 10th.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Leviticus 21
...I the LORD, who sanctifies you, am holy.9 ‘Also the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by harlotry, she profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.



Revelation 17
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

~

the ten horns were the ten caesars - TITUS being the 10th.

That is one aspect of it, but here is another:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Explain those verses to me, zone.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

this is the 4th time i am asking:

Does Romans 6 mention baptism by fire.

also, as home said clearly....

does the Bible ANYWHERE say our sins are burned away by baptism by fire?

it's just a simple question.

also - are you teaching universal salvation?

No, Romans 6 does not directly mention it because it assumes that the hearer understands all that baptism into Jesus' death entails.

And no, I am not teaching universal salvation. I am teaching that God would prefer all be saved if that were possible and that all he does is with that goal in mind, but he ultimately will definitely let us fall the way of our own choosing.

God's purpose can be said to destroy sin and to end the corruption which was inflicted upon his creations.

But that is a purpose that grows out of his desire to save, else he simply would not even bother with us.

God has shown us that left to ourselves we would destroy ourselves anyway. He would not have to lift a finger and wickednes would burn itself out of this earth by it's own tendency to kindle fire against it's self. The law of reaping and sowing.

Therefore, we must look with eyes of love for God's purpose to salvage in all that he is doing. For if his purpose in doing anything was to destroy, then he would need do nothing but let that happen on it's own, just as it surely would.

 

[livingepistle]

commandmed by Peter aftereven when he saw the Holy Ghost had already fell on them, again if they had not got water babtized after the Holy Ghost had already immersed them, would not being water Babtized make void the receoption of the Holy Ghost, God would or was about to repent and take back what God has given?
I think not, now I would and have been water Babtized and have not gone against it beiing done, I am only dividing the word as it is said in scripture in context.
Do you agree that water Babtism of John and that the Babtism of the Holy Ghost are two types of Babtism?
So which Babtism saves?
Water Babtism starts one on a path of trying to do waht is right and finds out that he can't make it, trying toplease God and others in the process and not always, but one a lot of times are most miserable behind closed doors, not wanting anyone to see their fraities, They want to look good in front of others all the time, and hopefully find a friend that won't get on an intercom ansannounce one's Failures, you know cause I believe so well in front of others.
Thus being no born again life in that individual, only famking it as if they have it. Been there done that. So each here please have an ear and hear what the Spirit is saying to you personally
God does just love you, and now respond to that!!!!! Quit trying to initiate a good well bred life, we are the creation not the creator. God wants respondersto God's love, not initiators to create a love to one's liking
Love you all

My response to your questions: Answer to your first question: 1] This would be a real stump of a question if it were not for Philip baptizing the Eunuch and then the majority of the citizens in Samaria. Acts 8:14-17 14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

No, it would not make void. Please note that Philip is a deacon and he baptized with water. Most importantly, Peter did not send Philip to witness to the Ethiopian Eunuch, the "an angel of the Lord" did. Acts 8:26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.”

Was the angel of the Lord telling Philip to do something because the angel was ashamed of what other people might say?

Then the Lord actually confirmed that it was He that sent the angel to Philip by translating him to another location.

Acts 8:38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39] When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40] Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

Was the Lord embarrassed at what others might say or did He approve what the angel told Philip to do, Did the Lord approve Philip baptizing the Ethiopian with "water" and when the Spirit of the Lord took Philip away was this confirmation of approval on the Lord's behalf or was the Lord embarrassed?

[I would like to pose a few questions; with brotherly love.

So it will help me if you answer the questions and then give me scripture that support your statements. Again, it will help me to better communicate and understand your point of view. Thanks Friend]

The lesson the Bible is teaching all believers concerning being "Born Again" is that there are two necessary acts it does not matter what order they occur but they will occur. One is Baptism by Water the other is Receiving the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit. Without the two occurrences, the New Birth did not happen. Proof positive is with Simon the Simon the sorcerer in Acts:

Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 18] And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19] Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20] But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21] Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

There is a lager audience to this CC Thread than us. I am not challenging your personal experiences with the Lord. My comments are restricted to the Word and the theology that is asserted concerning being Born Again and what necessitates the event happening.

Back to the questions:

Paul baptized John's disciples in water, why?

Is the Lord's commandment that established the "Lord's Supper" a metaphoric work to be performed in Spirit or is it a work that is to be performed in three dimensional reality?

Was the "Lord's Supper" a "memorial" commandment given before or after the cross? >Matthew 26:17-30<

Before the Lord's crucifixion and immediately after the Passover supper was eaten, the Lord washed the Apostle's feet in "water". Then he commanded that this ritual be continued among sisters and brothers. John's disciples, before the cross, didn't wash feet, at least not according to Biblical accounts, it only happened among the Twelve; John 13-17

Today, is the Church only supposed to use the "Water of the Word" to wash the feet of the Saints or is the ritual deed of Saints washing of feet done away with according to what you believe? >Ephesians 5:26<

These questions are important to the subject of John's baptisms. "The Lord's Supper and Washing of Feet" are restricted to the subject at hand; no derailing attempts please. Thanks.

Romans 6:1-11
New American Standard Bible (©1995)

1] What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2] May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3] Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4] Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7] for he who has died is freed from sin.

8] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9] knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10] For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11] Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus." <Grammatical underlining, emboldened, and text italicizing added. No text was changed or included beyond the actual scriptures posted>

I and other CC Saints have posted a plethora of baptismal scriptures from the book of Acts to Romans. The facts of the Word has been planted. The Jesus will water and give increase. I will pray that you have a Damascus Road Experience. Moreover, I believe that enough is offered to give the curious enough scriptural comparisons to continue in prayer for Truth.

I remain open for dialogue.

 

[jb]

Is baptism Essential for salvation?

If you are referring to baptism in water (total immersion), then 'NO' it is not essential...

Acts 2v21 states: '...whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.'

Rom 10v8,9 states: 'But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.'

And so forth...

 

[jinx]

If you are referring to baptism in water (total immersion), then 'NO' it is not essential...

Acts 2v21 states: '...whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.'

Rom 10v8,9 states: 'But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.'

And so forth...

what about all of the other scriptures in the bible saying it IS unnecessary? What do we do with THOSE scriptures?

Do we throw them out?

or do we use those scriptures and your scriptures and put it all together like a puzzle and take the bible as a WHOLE?

 

[kardiaoangelous]

2 Cor 5:21 "For He hath made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."

Actually that says, "For God has made his Son who knew no sin to become sin for us that we might be made that righteousness of God that is in the Son."

Those that fail to teach that are bringing the curse to themselves by confusing God's plan to peoples' minds.

I want to emphasize this post I made earlier, because misunderstanding what they read is what I am focused helping to clear up, as I believe also zone is. The way so many misconstrue 2 Corinthians 5:21 as though it is saying they are "in him" and while "in him" being made the righteousness of God, leaves many to think Christ does it for them. But just as they have misunderstood this verse so have they many others. So please grasp what I said.


2 Corinthians 5:21 ton gar mh gnonta amartian uper hmwn amartian epoihsen ina hmeij ginwmeqa dikaiosunh qeou enautw

The bold words in order are “we”, “righteousness”, “in”, “him”.


By that last letter on that Greek word for “we”, it is seen that it is not connected to the Greek word for “in” before the Greek word for “him”.


But the Greek word for “righteousness” is connected to the Greek preposition there translated as "in".



That cannot be dismissed by how we exegesis this passage, if our exegesis is to be a proper exegesis.



Nor can it be dismissed by how we understand this passage, if it is to be properly understood.

 

[notuptome]

what about all of the other scriptures in the bible saying it IS unnecessary? What do we do with THOSE scriptures?

Do we throw them out?

or do we use those scriptures and your scriptures and put it all together like a puzzle and take the bible as a WHOLE?

Indeed just learn to rightly divide the scriptures and ascertain the difference between Holy Spirit baptism which is essential and water baptism which is not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jinx]

Indeed just learn to rightly divide the scriptures and ascertain the difference between Holy Spirit baptism which is essential and water baptism which is not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Sorry but your wrong, and I believe that my previous post with dozens of scriptures PROVES your wrong.
Have a great day.
~~Jinx

 

[kardiaoangelous]

I don't know how in became sandwiched with him in my last post but here is with proper separation.

2 Corinthians 5:21 ton gar mh gnonta amartian uper hmwn amartian epoihsen ina hmeij ginwmeqa dikaiosunh qeou en autw

I am not saying that there are no texts which speak of as "in Christ". For there are and in all cases these mean, "in the body of Christ", or in other words "a member in the church of Christ."

To one that understands how the Greek grammar applies, there is much more than what I have spoken that we can learn from 1 Corinthians 5:21. For example, we learn that it is not by merely saying we believe that makes us a part of Christ's body. We learn that we must eat our way into that true spiritual body. We must eat of that righteousness that is in Christ so that we grow to be one with the spirit of Christ, as Christ's spirit is the spirit of God's righteousness in it's fulness. That righteousness is what is in Christ and we are not in him until we grow to become that one spirit as in him.

Thus we see how it eventually becomes true that, John 17:23 "I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made <[made in the sense of being formed or created] [so as to become]> perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

And, John 17:26 "And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them <[which is that righteousness of God that needs to come to be in them], [making this possible]> and I in them."