Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[kardiaoangelous]

2 Cor 5:21 "For He hath made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."

Actually that says, "For God has made his Son who knew no sin to become sin for us that we might be made that righteousness of God that is in the Son."

Those that fail to teach that are bringing the curse to themselves by confusing God's plan to peoples' minds.

anything that teaches man to walk by his own flesh and or others is being decieved and kept from walking in the Spirit of God, that God freely gave all of us that do beleive, the battle is flesh and Spirit of God
Galatians 5:1-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

Christian Liberty

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Love Fulfills the Law

[SUP]7 [/SUP]You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? [SUP]8 [/SUP]This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you. [SUP]9 [/SUP]A little leaven leavens the whole lump. [SUP]10 [/SUP]I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [SUP]15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
Walking in the Spirit

[SUP]16 [/SUP]I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

I only know of 2 Cor.5:21, that when we look for the inflection which is found in the last one or two letters of each word, there is no possible way to read it, "we righteousness in him."

I must let the grammar do the interpreting for me rather than imposing my own interpretation over it. I don't think you will find any legitimate Greek scholar who would contradict what I have told you. It is just too plain in that verse that it must be read just as I said.

 

[livingepistle]

you assume the Babtism in Romans 6 is water and that is not stated as such, now those beleivers that were only babtized in water needed to be babtized in the Spirit of God. Now those that recieved the sp;irit of God without water did not need to be water babtized, even though it was and is a good conscious for God.
But Brother they already recieved the Spirit of God salvation, so you are going to amke it Law that one is not saved without water Babtism as a lot of Churches have and do today.
We are not under Law but under grace, so please do not get water Babtized as a law because as the Galatians toolk on Circumscion what did Paul say about this, and that was a ceremonialLaw as what you might be sayiing about water Babtism. Water Babtism is between God and you, why do we need others to approve of us as they do when we do this
I thought by scripture we are by beleif already approved in the beloved

Ephesians 1:6to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Now read the whole chapter and tell me where any water Babtism is at here
[h=3]Ephesians 1:1-23[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Greeting[/h]1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[h=3]Redemption in Christ[/h][SUP]3[/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, [SUP]4 [/SUP]just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, [SUP]5[/SUP]having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace [SUP]8 [/SUP]which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, [SUP]9 [/SUP]having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, [SUP]10 [/SUP]that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. [SUP]11 [/SUP]In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, [SUP]12 [/SUP]that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
[h=3]Prayer for Spiritual Wisdom[/h][SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, [SUP]16 [/SUP]do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: [SUP]17 [/SUP]that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, [SUP]18 [/SUP]the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, [SUP]19 [/SUP]and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power [SUP]20 [/SUP]which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, [SUP]21 [/SUP]far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, [SUP]23 [/SUP]which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

My dear CC brother, it is you that assume that it is Spirit. If you can provide me with a Bible scripture that states that we are baptized in the "Spirit" please do so and your observations will be plausible.

Brotherly love continues

 

[jinx]

I'd be checking the meaning of the word baptism every time you come across it in the bible cause your going to find that the bible does talk about water baptism.

Eph 4:5 One (G1520) Lord, (G2962) one (G3391) faith,(G4102) one (G1520) baptism,(G908)

G908
βάπτισμα
baptisma
bap'-tis-mah
From G907; baptism (technically or figuratively): - baptism.

baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.



When He was talking about baptism only being one, He was talking about the kind you get wet with. Because Remember there was those that were baptized under John's baptism and they had to be re-baptism in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. So they could be correctly baptized.

 

[jinx]

you assume the Babtism in Romans 6 is water and that is not stated as such,

Better check your orignal greek/hebrew writtings homie. It IS WATER

Rom 6:3 (G2228) Know ye not,(G50) that (G3754) so many of us as (G3745) were baptized (G907) into (G1519) Jesus (G2424) Christ (G5547) were baptized (G907) into (G1519) his (G848) death?(G2288)

G907
baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.



G911
βάπτω
baptō
bap'-to
A primary verb; to whelm, that is, cover wholly with a fluid; in the New Testament only in a qualified or specific sense, that is, (literally) to moisten (a part of one’s person), or (by implication) to stain (as with dye): - dip.

 

[jinx]

Where does any of these verses state that it is water, and I know it does not state Holy Ghost Babtism either with fire'
But again john after water Babtizing Christ said the he (water Babtism) must decreaseand Christ's (Holy Ghost) Babtism must increase, pretty simple after the cross we are babtized in the Spirit the Holy Ghost as Chirst even said was coming in John 16, he never said and tell others to be Babtized in water first or afterwards
It only stand s to logic that Christ was and is tallking about the Holy Ghost Babtism not water. Scripture is clear if anyoe will look at it in whole in context ot the events that took place.

AGAIN lets use the strongs concordance of the original greek and hebrew text for this scripture shall we.

Mat 28:19 Go (G4198) ye therefore, (G3767) and teach (G3100) all (G3956) nations,(G1484) baptizing (G907) them (G846) in (G1519) the (G3588) name (G3686) of the (G3588) Father,(G3962) and (G2532) of the (G3588) Son,(G5207) and (G2532) of the (G3588) Holy (G40) Ghost: (G4151)

G907
βαπτίζω
baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.

 

[zone]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a way ot answer. Let me ask another way is your place of fellowship right and all others wrong?are you perfect and you are allowed to punish any and all you choose to at your beckon
This is unfortuantely how you come across as you know it all and where you go to church, just like many others do this too
I also notice how you do not answer all my posts, is it becasue you can't refute what is said shown to be in scripture, you seem to like to argue and make others mad, and I really do hope my perception of this is wrong, but it keeps posting back as Iam not wrong about this and I do pray God show you a more excellent way, really I am in deep concern
I do love you no differant that a Catholkic, A Babtist, A Jehovah Witness, and any other denomination that you might just spew out od your mouth and use Scripture to back this up, I hope not
Please come to the LOVE of God that is
[h=3]1 Corinthians 13:4-13[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; [SUP]5 [/SUP]does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; [SUP]6 [/SUP]does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; [SUP]7 [/SUP]bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part and we prophesy in part. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

loving our fellow man was not the subject, home.
i know people from all walks of life.
i eat with them, talk to them, know about their lives, and love them.

the subject was christian followship.

i asked about being one in the THE faith with people proclaiming aberrant doctrine.
said another way, are we one with people John said not to be?

look how john (the apostle of love) spoke on the matter, home (this was the Jesus-wasn't-a-flesh-man-doctrine):

2 John 1
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

ya know?
would you rebuke John for writing that?

 

[notuptome]

AGAIN lets use the strongs concordance of the original greek and hebrew text for this scripture shall we.

Mat 28:19 Go (G4198) ye therefore, (G3767) and teach (G3100) all (G3956) nations,(G1484) baptizing (G907) them (G846) in (G1519) the (G3588) name (G3686) of the (G3588) Father,(G3962) and (G2532) of the (G3588) Son,(G5207) and (G2532) of the (G3588) Holy (G40) Ghost: (G4151)

G907
βαπτίζω
baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.

Baptizo is to submerge and keep them there. If it were water they would surely drown. Bapto is to dip in and take back out.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jinx]

Baptizo is to submerge and keep them there. If it were water they would surely drown. Bapto is to dip in and take back out.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I guess you need to take that up with strongs

and some other credible theologians.

good luck with that.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

AGAIN lets use the strongs concordance of the original greek and hebrew text for this scripture shall we.

Mat 28:19 Go (G4198) ye therefore, (G3767) and teach (G3100) all (G3956) nations,(G1484) baptizing (G907) them (G846) in (G1519) the (G3588) name (G3686) of the (G3588) Father,(G3962) and (G2532) of the (G3588) Son,(G5207) and (G2532) of the (G3588) Holy (G40) Ghost: (G4151)

G907
βαπτίζω
baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.

Actually you don't understand.

911 bapto -- pronounced: bap'-to

a primary verb; to whelm, as in "to overwhelm" is the actual and more precise thought of the word.

Then by assumption of the observance of some of the common applications in the scriptures, that more precise meaning can be illustrated (i.e.), i.e. means "in other words" as an example:

i.e. cover wholly with a fluid; in the New Testament only in a qualified or special sense, i.e. (literally) to moisten (a part of one's person), or (by implication) to stain (as with dye): KJV -- dip.

The entire thought of both baptism and baptize arise out of that same thought, the thought of being overwhelmed by whatever. It just so happens that many of our practical examples of this in scripture are by the fluid anointing, whether they be oil or water.

In that same way the members of the first century church were overwhelmed (thus anointed) by the Holy Spirit, which served a specific purpose at that time.

 

[jinx]

Actually you don't understand.

911 bapto -- pronounced: bap'-to

a primary verb; to whelm, as in "to overwhelm" is the actual the more precise thought of the word.

Then by assumption of the observance of some of the common applications in the scriptures, that more precise meaning can be illustrated (i.e.), i.e. means "in other words" as an example:

i.e. cover wholly with a fluid; in the New Testament only in a qualified or special sense, i.e. (literally) to moisten (a part of one's person), or (by implication) to stain (as with dye): KJV -- dip.

The entire thought of both baptism and baptize arise out of that same thought, the thought of being overwhelmed by whatever. It just so happens that many of our practical examples of this in scripture are by the fluid anointing, whether they be oil or water.

In that same way the members of the first century church were overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit, which served a specific purpose at that time.

G911
βάπτω
baptō
bap'-to
A primary verb; to whelm, that is, cover wholly with a fluid; in the New Testament only in a qualified or specific sense, that is, (literally) to moisten (a part of one’s person), or (by implication) to stain (as with dye): - dip.


Unbelievable. you guys argue over anything just as long as your not proven wrong.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

G911
βάπτω
baptō
bap'-to
A primary verb; to whelm, that is, cover wholly with a fluid; in the New Testament only in a qualified or specific sense, that is, (literally) to moisten (a part of one’s person), or (by implication) to stain (as with dye): - dip.


Unbelievable. you guys argue over anything just as long as your not proven wrong.

It is more believable that you are not open to clarification by others who definitely are qualified to tell you, as you would never recognize them because you refuse to even consider and think about what they said.

What is another name for that?

 

[jinx]

so, I'm to take everything you say at face value because you are so much more wiser and smarter than anyone else............


again..... Take it up with strongs and other credible theologians.

see if they "consider" your "clarification".

A woman can't even quote a strongs concordance in this room.

sounds like it's YOUR problem.

not mine.

ok.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

so, I'm to take everything you say at face value because you are so much more wiser and smarter than anyone else............


again..... Take it up with strongs and other credible theologians.

see if they "consider" your "clarification".

A woman can't even quote a strongs concordance in this room.

sounds like it's YOUR problem.

not mine.

ok.

I handed you a glass of water and you called a container of stones.

And yes, quote it by all means, but then be humble enough to discuss what it is saying.

You obviously interpret i.e. to mean "that is" but you do not fully understand i.e., and you are not alone for many do not fully understand that abbreviation. You even find some disagreement as to what it means when you research it on the internet, with some claiming that it is only e.g. which has anything to do with the thought of "for example".

"Forget about i.e. standing for "that is" or whatever it really means in Latin. From now on, i.e., which starts with i, means “in other words,” and e.g., which starts with e, means “for example.” I = in other words. E= example."


http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/ie-eg-oh-my.aspx]Grammar Girl : I.e. Versus E.g. :: Quick and Dirty Tips

 

[jinx]

Like I said, take it up with strongs and other credible theologians. The strongs did the interpretation and made it clear what those words mean.

you don't like it cause strongs proves your theology wrong.

so go ahead and tell me I read my strongs wrong.
go ahead and call me a person who wont submit to your VAST knowledge and wisdom.
I gave scripture, I gave strongs. You didn't like either one of them.
That's not my problem.
That is yours.

Tired of dealing with ya.
K-Bye.

 

[zone]

I handed you a glass of water and you called a container of stones.

And yes, quote it by all means, but then be humble enough to discuss what it is saying.

You obviously interpret i.e. to mean "that is" but you do not fully understand i.e., and you are not alone for many do not fully understand that abbreviation. You even find some disagreement as to what it means when you research it on the internet, with some claiming that it is only e.g. which has anything to do with the thought of "for example".

"Forget about i.e. standing for "that is" or whatever it really means in Latin. From now on, i.e., which starts with i, means “in other words,” and e.g., which starts with e, means “for example.” I = in other words. E= example."


http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/ie-eg-oh-my.aspx]Grammar Girl : I.e. Versus E.g. :: Quick and Dirty Tips

so should we be telling Christians to stop being baptized in water, kardiaoangelous?

it sounds like a very serious mistake, if they've been getting wrong for 2000 years.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

so should we be telling Christians to stop being baptized in water, kardiaoangelous?

it sounds like a very serious mistake, if they've been getting wrong for 2000 years.

Absolutely not! We should be joyously willing to submit to water baptism. I have never denied that water baptism is proper.

And more than that, just as i spoke of my own water baptism, I said how beautiful and uniting the experience was in the river that day for the twelve of us.

 

[1still_waters]

so should we be telling Christians to stop being baptized in water, kardiaoangelous?

it sounds like a very serious mistake, if they've been getting wrong for 2000 years.

Apostles which are the foundation of the church and part of the "five fold ministry", well one of them said this about baptism.

1 Peter 3:21
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the
filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

He also said...

Acts 2
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I'm not saying some water put on or around the skin saves, but I'm saying hey..This seemed like an important thing, and maybe certain western anti super natural biases have downplayed the importance of this.

 

[jinx]

I'm not saying some water put on or around the skin saves, but I'm saying hey..This seemed like an important thing, and maybe certain western anti super natural biases have downplayed the importance of this.

wait. are you talking about me? I can't tell. LOL

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Like I said, take it up with strongs and other credible theologians. The strongs did the interpretation and made it clear what those words mean.

you don't like it cause strongs proves your theology wrong.

so go ahead and tell me I read my strongs wrong.
go ahead and call me a person who wont submit to your VAST knowledge and wisdom.
I gave scripture, I gave strongs. You didn't like either one of them.
That's not my problem.
That is yours.

Tired of dealing with ya.
K-Bye.

God loves you and so do I.

 

[jinx]

***bangs head again***