Is baptism Essential for salvation?

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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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No baptism is not essential or required for salvation. It is something you do after accepting Christ as savior. Some religions such as the one I belonged to when I was young and came to Christ require baptism to join the church officially or be part of the choir or other groups. I can honestly say that when I did this, I had no spiritual connection with the act of baptism. It was a few months ago after studying what this step means and what it represents that I learned and was able to understand that it goes very deep into your decision to follow Christ. It is a step of obedience. It is a public display of your faith. But most importantly it represents our new life in Christ. It represents dying to our old way of life and being "re-born".

Someone I respect and look up in his walk with God shared this link with me not too long ago and it makes so much sense. I hope you all have a chance to look at it.

Damon Thompson on Water Baptism - YouTube



/youtu.be/CV3oT4YvT30
you know water Babtism was going on in public for the first time by John before the cross, before reborn ever came to be, and John said it straight that his Babtism wasfor repentance and Peter confirmed this in 1 peter that water Babtism is a good conscious before God but not for washing away our sins. And he talked of the eight people saved by water you know the flood, but they were never dunked they floated atop, anyway I am not against water babtism, but I am most importantly for Spiritual from God Babtism as Acts 1:5 states
Acts 1:5for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Ephesians 4:5one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Now since the world here has made water babtism most important and God says holy ghost babtism is what brings life and did at Pentecost and the ones that had not recieved Holy Ghost needed to and Paul as well as others showed thme thus and di Babtize them with the Holy Ghost, I see no where it being said we recieved the Holy Ghost and thus being asked well did you recieve water babtism NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There4 is swuch a mix up on the truth today and the enemy came to still, kill, and destroy, but Christ came to give life and this life was not yet known untilthe resurrection
John16
[h=3]The Work of the Holy Spirit[/h][SUP]5 [/SUP]“But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ [SUP]6 [/SUP]But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [SUP]9 [/SUP]of sin, because they do not believe in Me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; [SUP]11 [/SUP]of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. [SUP]13 [/SUP]However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.


[h=3]John 3[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]The New Birth[/h]3 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. [SUP]2 [/SUP]This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. [SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ [SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? [SUP]11 [/SUP]Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. [SUP]12 [/SUP]If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? [SUP]13 [/SUP]No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, [SUP]15 [/SUP]that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
[h=3]John the Baptist Exalts Christ[/h][SUP]22 [/SUP]After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For John had not yet been thrown into prison.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”
[SUP]27 [/SUP]John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven. [SUP]28 [/SUP]You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent before Him.’ [SUP]29 [/SUP]He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled. [SUP]30 [/SUP]He must increase, but I must decrease. [SUP]31 [/SUP]He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all. [SUP]32 [/SUP]And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. [SUP]33 [/SUP]He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. [SUP]34 [/SUP]For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. [SUP]35 [/SUP]The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. [SUP]36 [/SUP]He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Verse 8 and verse 16, no water mentioned, only Holy Spirit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that was a coming after the reurection of Christ
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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okay....but what's it for? a celebration?
if we are still doing it, and it's proper - shouldn't the Bible tell us that?

what i mean is, where is it written to submit to water baptism?
is it written - that it's something to do for......what reason?

is it a tradition? take it or leave it sorta?
John's babtism is clearly stated by John that it is for repentance, a person that desires to turn away form their sinful behavior and that it is not Spirit Babtrism.
So water Babtism is a fleshly act of trying be right with God (good conscious) but no flesh canever be perfect escept Christ and that is because Christ was born perfect! So we need Spiritual Babtism to be withGod and serve God

  1. John 4:23
    But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
    John 4:22-24 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  2. John 4:24God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
    John 4:23-25 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  3. John 14:17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
    John 14:16-18 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  4. John 16:13However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
    Ephesians 5:9(for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
  5. 1 John 3:24[ The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
    1 John 3:23-24 (in Context) 1 John 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  6. 1 John 4:6We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
    1 John 4:5-7 (in Context) 1 John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  7. 1 John 5:6[ The Certainty of God’s Witness ] This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.
  8. 1 John 3:24[ The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
    1 John 3:23-24 (in Context) 1 John 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  9. 1 John 4:6We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
    1 John 4:5-7 (in Context) 1 John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  10. 1 John 5:6[ The Certainty of God’s Witness ] This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.

 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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a-a-a-a-anyways;)

Hebrews 6
1So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deedsa and placing our faith in God. 2You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I denounce all despise against water baptism. Christians and their children should be baptized in water. Period. Water baptism holds all the promises the Word of God says it does. It's only unbelief, error and heresy to deny this. Amen.
So what about Holy Ghost babtism and with fire? Is there only one Babtism or two?
Was the Law the shadow of the good things to come? as in hebrews 10
So just maybe was water Babtism a shadow of what was to come Christ the righteous ans a part od the fulfilling of the Law and Prophets that Christ came to fulfill Matt 5:17 and fulfilled John 19:30, which brought in a new covenant Heb.9:15-17
Water Babtism is good sa for a good conscioius to God between God and you only none other and God leads these to a saving grace in the Holy Spirit of God, soaking you in truth,drowning you in truth, keeping you in truth WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to me and woah is me,how about you?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I'm a broken record. But with verse like below, how can people hopscotch over baptism so easily, or take it so lightly?


1 Peter 3:21
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the
filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


He also said...


Acts 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Tell me how is one saved by water Babtism or Holy Ghost with fiore Babtism as what happened on the day of Pentecost? Which one actually saves?
 
J

jinx

Guest
Here ya go Homie. This talks about the one baptism verse.


I'd be checking the meaning of the word baptism every time you come across it in the bible ;) cause your going to find that the bible does talk about water baptism.



G908
βάπτισμα
baptisma
bap'-tis-mah
From G907; baptism (technically or figuratively): - baptism.

baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.



When He was talking about baptism only being one, He was talking about the kind you get wet with. Because Remember there was those that were baptized under John's baptism and they had to be re-baptism in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. So they could be correctly baptized.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Im just quotin Bible

these are not MY doctrine





1 Peter 3:21
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the
filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


Acts 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


These are two potent verses to reckon with. They are so easily dismissed by many.
Iamnot dismissing this I am pointing out thatthis water Babtism is a good conscious towards God and if one does get water Babtized for this reason between God and them, then God will point out to thos the Spiritual Babtism that Christ has for them by his resurrection and one will be transformed form death to life and will work in the enrgy of God's flesh (Christ) not anymore their own, seeing that there is no way they can if they are honest with themselves, then they will be translated to life in Christ by the Holy Ghost of Christ where salvation is at, just as those in acts 10 had the Holy Ghost fall on them before any water Babtism, God is awesome you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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But you are confusing that at 1 Peter 3:21 to be water baptism when it is not. That idea does not match the parallel with Noah's Ark and that flood.

Please listen as I explain how that parallel works:

Noah and seven others were transported in the Ark as risen above by water of a world which was perishing.

Parallel: Isaiah 57:20 "But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt."

Jesus arranged things to demonstrate how by faith in him we can rise to walk safely on the surface of even turbulent water, again to those who have spiritual discernment a picture of rising above this perishing world to safety through faith in Christ:

Matthew 14:22 "And straightway Jesus constrained his disciples to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away.
23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.
24 But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.
25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.
26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.
28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."

Jesus' body compares to that Ark Noah built. When we become a part of the body of Christ (his church) it is as being inside that Ark that Noah built being carried over the top of the turbulent waters of wicked mankind. And we can only enter Christ's body (his true church) through an active faith which fears not to step out and walk as does Christ, even as Jesus used Peter there at Matthew 14 to demonstrate, making it no surprise why peter would be the one to write as he did at 1 Peter 3:21.

I will stop there for a time so you can ponder that tid-bit.
Thank youvery insightful to me yes I am blind yet now I do see, thanks again
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Well that's some clever finagling of other verses.
But the immediate context mentions water, and then the word baptism.

I reckon you can impose some outside verses that really aren't germane to the verses in 1 Peter 3, to make it say something else.

But the immediate context mentions water and baptism, so I'm just gonna take it as applying to water and baptism.

But I'll store your thinkin in my thinkin for a bit n see if it clicks.
Were the eight Souls saved ever dunked? I think not
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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So what about Holy Ghost babtism and with fire? Is there only one Babtism or two?


Water Babtism is good sa for a good conscioius to God between God and you only none other and God
water baptism or no water baptism home?
it's either water or no water.
perform it or do not perform it.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
Yes, the baptism of fire didn't work well for the children who were sacrificed to Moloch. But then again, our True God was present in the burning bush that wasn't really burning up. So...
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Iamnot dismissing this I am pointing out thatthis water Babtism is a good conscious towards God and if one does get water Babtized for this reason between God and them, then God will point out to thos the Spiritual Babtism that Christ has for them by his resurrection and one will be transformed form death to life and will work in the enrgy of God's flesh (Christ) not anymore their own, seeing that there is no way they can if they are honest with themselves, then they will be translated to life in Christ by the Holy Ghost of Christ where salvation is at, just as those in acts 10 had the Holy Ghost fall on them before any water Babtism, God is awesome you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
before any water baptism.
so why were they baptized in water AFTER?
did they make a mistake?

this is like those other subjects.

why be double-minded?

if water baptism is NOT the baptism of the great commission, we need to ACTIVELY get the church to STOP doing it.
if it is error, it needs to stop.
are you comfortable with that?

(ONLY the people at Pentecost and the gentiles thereafter were BAPTIZED by the Spirit - exactly as was Promised - the POWER from on High - what did THAT baptism do? exactly what we read about - miraculous activity that everyone saw and heard).
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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So if someone doesn't agree with your interpretation of 1 Peter 3:21 then they don't understand spiritual things?

I see that trump card laid down quite often.

It's not a matter of an unsoftened heart or failure to understand spiritual things.
It's just that I see the immediate context.
I see the words water and baptism, and assume it means water and baptism.
Your approach seems to take a text about baptism and turns it into anything but baptism.

Trust me dude, I'm rackin my brain reading your interpretation over quite a lot, and it's not even within the realm of being plausible to me ...yet.
water Babtism is to be dunked and then brought back up again and none of thoseeight Souls were dunked they lived above the circumstances by Faith in God hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no actual water Babtism for them and for the rest of the evil people then dunked dead, andnot at that time brought back to life yet until christ rose fromthe dead and preachedto those Spirits held in prison by the adversary the Devil and thos that believed were made alive in Christ delivered to Heaven where they are rested in God forever even if they work, forthey do waht is needed by God witha joy that reigns in them as does me today yet still waiting for the body redemption, the only thing that still from time to time besets me
Romans 8:23Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
You all know the scenario where the boyfriend gets caught kissing another girl, and the girlfriend catches him?
His first response?

IT'S NOT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE!

His first action is to attempt to smooth talk his way outta the situation.
Even though the girl can clearly see what's going.

I feel like some Christians are trying to smooth talk their way out of what is SO CLEAR about baptism.
This spiritual sounding smooth talk is really good too.
But in the end the Bible says/shows/displays/commands what it does.

So yes there are rare extenuating circumstances like being stuck on a cross, being stuck in a bed, and there is obviously grace for these scenarios. But when you're not stuck on a cross or in a bed, you can't avoid what's so clear in the Bible by this evasive, hop scotching smooth talk.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,464
459
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It's getting deep in here. Put your boot on kids. :cool:
And out of garbage comes beautiful Flowers thater here today and gone tommorrow. The deeper the better.
Please do not start banging head again
 
T

Tintin

Guest
Still, so you're saying in any other circumstance, that a water baptism is essential for salvation? I think it's incredibly important but I wouldn't go that far and I don't think the Bible teaches that it's required for salvation.
 
J

jinx

Guest
nah homie. I wont. I had my little hissy fit last night so I'm good.

I just wish people would take scripture for what it is cause GOD isn't the author of confusion.

why would people believe HE would ever confuse us on water baptism is beyond me.
 
J

jinx

Guest
You all know the scenario where the boyfriend gets caught kissing another girl, and the girlfriend catches him?
His first response?

IT'S NOT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE!

His first action is to attempt to smooth talk his way outta the situation.
Even though the girl can clearly see what's going.

I feel like some Christians are trying to smooth talk their way out of what is SO CLEAR about baptism.
This spiritual sounding smooth talk is really good too.
But in the end the Bible says/shows/displays/commands what it does.

So yes there are rare extenuating circumstances like being stuck on a cross, being stuck in a bed, and there is obviously grace for these scenarios. But when you're not stuck on a cross or in a bed, you can't avoid what's so clear in the Bible by this evasive, hop scotching smooth talk.
Thank you so much for saying this cause now I know that I am not the only one seeing this in this thread!!!

I don't know if I should hug you or cry for joy.....

probably neither...

That would be awkward. For both of us.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,464
459
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OK, then show how the pieces fit the way you see it?

If you cannot fit all of the pieces then are you being humble by continuing to insist on the way you see it?

Here is your chance. Please proceed.

And note the correction I added that you did not catch. "David, speaking prophetically of Jesus shows us that it was Jesus himself that taught us this picture. Not that Jesus had sin but that he took our sins to him."
Christ became sin for us and thus David seeing this afar off stated
Psalm 100:4Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, And into His courts with praise. Be thankful to Him, and bless His name

And King david was never water Babtized, Noah wasn't neither his Family, Abraham was never water Bebtized only the priest of the Arronic,, Levitical priests were prior to entering the Holy of Holies, and christ was water babtized for this to be done once and for all, the curtainripped open and we all by Christ are allowed today to enter the Holy of Holies through belief in Christ, Holy Ghost babtism, in the resurrection of christ at the cross of Christ who sent all that believe the same Holy Ghost that led him to lead us as he was led, to do what is right in him, by what God says not man
 
Mar 15, 2013
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Not exactly following you. I am saying by Christ and through trusting the finished work of Christ seeking to understand truth to be set free in christ to God the Father, we have the righteousness of God of Christ. Now this is not ours it is God's and we are made partakers of this God getting all the glory
Are we saying the same, i know it is sometimes not easy tosay the same froma differant angle as you have so well said before.
I am not sure how to answer.

What does that, "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith ...", entail to you as to; Taking into consideration that Christ, "... being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.."?

(Hebrews 12:2a; Hebrews 5:9)

You call it "finished" which seems you are saying as in "already completed". Do you believe in "once saved always saved"?

Or, do you see that as only true when we have taken off all corruption and put fully on incorruptibility, realizing that being a little corrupted or a little incorruptible are just as much impossible as being a little bit pregnant?