Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[kardiaoangelous]

We can't dip people into a name.

That's impossible!

Baptism involves water.

I really don't know how you have morphed it this bad.

This is most directly what we are told to help people do, at Matthew 28:19 >: Micah 4:5 "For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever."

Proverbs 18:10 "The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe."

Isaiah 50:10 "Who is among you that feareth the LORD, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God."

Galatians 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into<[eis] Christ have put on Christ."

So you will have to take that objection up with God.

As for me, I must honestly read the Greek grammar for what it clearly says.

As I fully trust God and His word, there is no reason for me to resist what it says.


Here are not one but two ways things can be baptized: Acts 1:5 "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

There are many kinds of baptisms, including by fire.

Notice it is baptisms, plural, here:

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

 

[jinx]

Stilly, i brought that Scripture up like two to three times lol. They seem to glance right over it.

they glance over everything

 

[DustinC]

For me, Jesus made it pretty clear in Mark 19:19 when He said "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned"

 

[jinx]

For me, Jesus made it pretty clear in Mark 19:19 when He said "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned"

that's correct DustinC, but some people believe that the baptism here in ANY VERSE means spiritual baptism. That all we have to do is believe. IN FACT I don't even know if they know what repentance is.

 

[DustinC]

Jesus Christ advocated baptism and made that perfectly clear in His word. That will always, always be good enough for me.

 

[A-Omega]

A-Omega has allots of zeal for the “letter” of the Gospel but unfortunately, he has the same spirit of thought as Saul of Tarsus. I pray that he has a similar Damascus Road experience and the Lord knocks him right off his “hee-haw”. LOL

Sure, because I "dared" to actually call a false Gospel what it is, as Scripture instructs, I am in the same category as someone who persecuted the Christian church and apprehended saints to be killed. lol.

There is a difference between being "off in terminology" and just being wrong. And I don't see why it is a crime to identify a false Gospel in a Christian forum. There are souls at stake. And if someone is spreading an incorrect doctrine of salvation what could be more important than pointing out that error? And I find it interesting that you don't mention that in my first response I did not assail anyone. I wrote a long, post explaining the law, the covenants and the Gospel. My goal is to edify first and foremost. But if someone preaching heresy is going to keep making comments to me, I am going to respond accordingly by telling them they are teaching false doctrine. And Jinx knew this which is why she/he had to resort to ignoring any actual Biblical discussion and making it all about "you just like rebuking me" or some other evasive subject.

 

[A-Omega]

For me, Jesus made it pretty clear in Mark 19:19 when He said "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned"

So how did the thief on the cross get saved? Did he get saved?

 

[JesusChica1991]

So how did the thief on the cross get saved? Did he get saved?

Obviously that was up to Jesus and not to mention Jesus had not died, been buried, or resurrected yet so the new purpose of baptism would not have existed. Also, he was still in the New Testament laws...I've heard these arguments....Next!

 

[A-Omega]

Obviously that was up to Jesus and not to mention Jesus had not died, been buried, or resurrected yet so the new purpose of baptism would not have existed. Also, he was still in the New Testament laws...I've heard these arguments....Next!

What is the purpose of baptism?? What does that mean that he was "in the New Testament (Old testament?) laws? The law doesn't save anyone. It condemns you.

"[SUP]26 [/SUP]Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen." Deuteronomy 27:26.

 

[OceanGrl]

So how did the thief on the cross get saved? Did he get saved?

It's amazing how anyone can say that water baptism is essential for salvation when, as you note here, Luke 23:43 states that Jesus replied to the thief, "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise." I don't think the thief had time to get off the cross he was on and go get baptized and then get back on his cross to die so that he would be in paradise. I'll take the words of Christ any day over someone's interpretation of a specific verse.

Also, Matthew 3:11 states "I baptize with water those who repent of their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is greater than I am--so much greater that I'm not worthy even to be his slave and carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

I like what my life application bible mentions about this verse:

"John baptized people as a sign that they had asked God to forgive their sins and had decided to live as he wanted them to live. Baptism was an outward sign of commitment. To be effective, it had to be accompanied by an inward change of attitude leading to a changed life--the work of the Holy Spirit. John said that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire. This looked ahead to Pentecost (Acts 2), when the Holy Spirit would be sent by Jesus in the form of tongues of fire, empowering his followers to preach the Good News. John's statement also symbolizes the work of the Holy Spirit in bringing God's judgement on those who refuse to turn from their sins. Everyone will one day be baptized--either now by God's Holy Spirit or later by the fire of his judgement."

And sure some will use Mark 16:16 to say that baptism is required to be saved, but John 3:16 doesn't mention anything about baptism being essential for salvation. So, I think it's safe to say that, while baptism by water is a great thing, it is not essential for salvation and therefore this verse represents a baptism by the Holy Spirit.

Titus 3:5 states, "he saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit." This ties into Ephesians 2:8-9 which talks about not being saved by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[1still_waters]

It's amazing how anyone can say that water baptism is essential for salvation when, as you note here, Luke 23:43 states that Jesus replied to the thief, "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise." I don't think the thief had time to get off the cross he was on and go get baptized and then get back on his cross to die so that he would be in paradise. I'll take the words of Christ any day over someone's interpretation of a specific verse.

Also, Matthew 3:11 states "I baptize with water those who repent of their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is greater than I am--so much greater that I'm not worthy even to be his slave and carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

I like what my life application bible mentions about this verse:

"John baptized people as a sign that they had asked God to forgive their sins and had decided to live as he wanted them to live. Baptism was an outward sign of commitment. To be effective, it had to be accompanied by an inward change of attitude leading to a changed life--the work of the Holy Spirit. John said that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire. This looked ahead to Pentecost (Acts 2), when the Holy Spirit would be sent by Jesus in the form of tongues of fire, empowering his followers to preach the Good News. John's statement also symbolizes the work of the Holy Spirit in bringing God's judgement on those who refuse to turn from their sins. Everyone will one day be baptized--either now by God's Holy Spirit or later by the fire of his judgement."

And sure some will use Mark 16:16 to say that baptism is required to be saved, but John 3:16 doesn't mention anything about baptism being essential for salvation. So, I think it's safe to say that, while baptism by water is a great thing, it is not essential for salvation and therefore this verse represents a baptism by the Holy Spirit.

Titus 3:5 states, "he saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit." This ties into Ephesians 2:8-9 which talks about not being saved by works, so that no one can boast.

Why do so many take the extenuating circumstance of being nailed to the cross and being unable to get to water, as a normative example for MOST who will never be hung on a cross and unable to get to water.

Obviously there is grace if you're nailed to a cross and can't get to water. But if you can get to water, and can't submit to that simple command, then it leaves one wondering what in the world is going on with said person.

 

[OceanGrl]

Why do so many take the extenuating circumstance of being nailed to the cross and being unable to get to water, as a normative example for MOST who will never be hung on a cross and unable to get to water.

Obviously there is grace if you're nailed to a cross and can't get to water. But if you can get to water, and can't submit to that simple command, then it leaves one wondering what in the world is going on with said person.

Because, being baptized by the Holy Spirit trumps being baptized in water. Isn't this the reason why John stated someone greater was coming, someone who would baptize by the Holy Spirit.

 

[JesusChica1991]

If baptizing by spirit is only something Jesus can do, why does he command us to baptize? Obviously we cannot baptize by the Spirit because that is something JEsus does so the only one we are commanded to do is baptize in water.

 

[1still_waters]

Because, being baptized by the Holy Spirit trumps being baptized in water. Isn't this the reason why John stated someone greater was coming, someone who would baptize by the Holy Spirit.

But your line of thinking seems to be..

Since Jesus baptizes in the Holy Spirit, we're not to be baptized in water.

 

[vic1980]

God bless you all in Jesus mighty name

 

[DustinC]

So how did the thief on the cross get saved? Did he get saved?

As I said, Jesus' word will always be enough for me, my friend.

 

[OceanGrl]

But your line of thinking seems to be..

Since Jesus baptizes in the Holy Spirit, we're not to be baptized in water.

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. What I am saying is that baptism is not required for salvation. That would mean we have to do a "works" to get saved, which the bible states is not so. We are saved through faith, not faith and a religious ceremony (Romans 4:1-11). If water baptism is essential for salvation, then you are not saved by faith but by works.

 

[jinx]

If JESUS commanded us to be water baptized which HE did, then we better do it or we are in SIN!!!!

 

[JesusChica1991]

Faith without works is dead....Christianity is both faith and works. It's not a split dichotomy like people make it out to be a lot of times. Instead of arguments being "either this or that" it should be "both this and that"

 

[OceanGrl]

Faith without works is dead....Christianity is both faith and works. It's not a split dichotomy like people make it out to be a lot of times. Instead of arguments being "either this or that" it should be "both this and that"

Yes, faith without works is dead... but when it comes to that moment of salvation, works cannot enter the equation since the bible states that we are saved by faith in Christ, not works. Works comes after salvation, not before it.