Does the Bible support firearms & self-defense?

[Elizabeth619]

Show me where self defense is in the Bible, for a person (not talking an army or the country) and I will agree with you. Actually, show me in the New Testament where Jesus said any where it is ok to take the life of another person. Even in self defense, or in defense of your family. (Yes, defending my family would be a hard one, but I would have to trust God, because there is never going to be a weapon like a gun in my house ever!) Trusting God, rather than chariots or horses is what it is all about. This is from Isaiah, and repeated in Psalms. Chariots and horses are weapons of war. Technically, even the people of Israel were not to trust in their weapons for self defense, but to trust in the Lord.

Why do you automatically assume that self defense means to take the life of another? Just because someone has a weapon does not mean they will kill with it.
I stated earlier that if someone threatened the life of my child I would shoot them. I would. That does not mean I would kill them.

Self defense is not vengence. It isn't hatred. It is what a person feels they need to do when they have no other choice. It can be deadly, but that isn't always the case. Self defense is protecting oneself from injury at the hand of others. Normally the "others" are evil.
If I know a type of danger is coming, and I decide to be "peaceful" and not warn anyone, or do anything to prevent it and others are harmed then I am guilty for the death or injury of victims.

Keep in mind that self defense comes in many different forms. You said to show you where self defense is in the bible. Passages have been given to you over and over again.

Also...
Seatbelts are forms of self defense, You are protecting yourself from potential death in the event you are in an accident. Along with airbags.

Calling and asking for assistance from the police.

Locking your door at night. If self defense is wrong then why would people lock their door?

There are many other examples of self defense that I could give that potential prevent injury or death, and most if not all people have done these things.
Yet, then a firearm comes into the picture then it is suddenly wrong. As I said before. If my life, or my childs life was threatened then yes, I would shoot.
Show me in the bible where I should let my son be killed without protecting him!

 

[Kerry]

So you and Cobus are saying that if man enters my home with a gun and begins to rape my wife and daughter. I am supposed to go to a corner and pray. But if I had a gun, things would be quite different. But for the good of the country, let my wife and daughter be raped. I have no choice since I cannot defend myself, yes I would be killed before this happened and the tragedy my wife and daughter would suffer. Because, He would have to shoot me.

It is a known fact that there are many cities that require residents to own a gun and their crime rate is minuscule.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Whether they shoot with bullets or nails to a cross, they do the killing not US! NOT JESUS! If Jesus had shot back with crosses and nails, NOBODY WOUD HAVE LIVED.... End of the world....

Jesus knew what must happen for us to seek salvation. If you think he enjoyed hanging on a cross in unimaginable pain you have another thing coming. He didn't want to go through with it, but he had to so we could be saved. He even said "Let this cup pass from me."

 

[Elizabeth619]

So you and Cobus are saying that if man enters my home with a gun and begins to rape my wife and daughter. I am supposed to go to a corner and pray. But if I had a gun, things would be quite different. But for the good of the country, let my wife and daughter be raped. I have no choice since I cannot defend myself, yes I would be killed before this happened and the tragedy my wife and daughter would suffer. Because, He would have to shoot me.

It is a known fact that there are many cities that require residents to own a gun and their crime rate is minuscule.

You are the protector. IF you failed to provide safety and defense then your faith would be "worse than an unbeliever" 1 Timothy 5:8

 

[Elizabeth619]

Smoke detectors
Alarm systems
Fire extinguishers
Storm shelters


All objects of self defense that can prevent injury or death.

 

[4enlightment]

That's why God prefer us not to marry, for satan will test you in an area that you are weak in. By Abraham was willing to give up his son as an sacrifice in order to have God in his life more than his only begotten son from Sarah has shown that he's willing not to commit murder to save a life. But if we have faith in God,we would believe that His kingdom exist and it will be an eternal kingdom without the worries about what's going to happen to your family or anyhting else.

 

[Cobus]

Let me introduce my protector to you Elizabeth an I have FULL confidance in HIM...
2 Thes 3:3.... But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

 

[Elizabeth619]

What makes you all think I have no faith?

Again. Show me where in the bible it says not to protect my child.

 

[Elizabeth619]

That's why God prefer us not to marry, for satan will test you in an area that you are weak in. By Abraham was willing to give up his son as an sacrifice in order to have God in his life more than his only begotten son from Sarah has shown that he's willing not to commit murder to save a life. But if we have faith in God,we would believe that His kingdom exist and it will be an eternal kingdom without the worries about what's going to happen to your family or anyhting else.

This thread isn't about marriage.

Someone attempting to harm ones child is totally different than a direct command from God. Which btw was a test and Abrahams child was not killed.

 

[Cobus]

If God protected HIS SON, we would all be dead now!

Again, God KNOWS to deliver His Children from evil.... And this is a command of God...
1 Peter 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

 

[jinx]

Why do you automatically assume that self defense means to take the life of another? Just because someone has a weapon does not mean they will kill with it.
I stated earlier that if someone threatened the life of my child I would shoot them. I would. That does not mean I would kill them.

Self defense is not vengence. It isn't hatred. It is what a person feels they need to do when they have no other choice. It can be deadly, but that isn't always the case. Self defense is protecting oneself from injury at the hand of others. Normally the "others" are evil.
If I know a type of danger is coming, and I decide to be "peaceful" and not warn anyone, or do anything to prevent it and others are harmed then I am guilty for the death or injury of victims.

Keep in mind that self defense comes in many different forms. You said to show you where self defense is in the bible. Passages have been given to you over and over again.

Also...
Seatbelts are forms of self defense, You are protecting yourself from potential death in the event you are in an accident. Along with airbags.

Calling and asking for assistance from the police.

Locking your door at night. If self defense is wrong then why would people lock their door?

There are many other examples of self defense that I could give that potential prevent injury or death, and most if not all people have done these things.
Yet, then a firearm comes into the picture then it is suddenly wrong. As I said before. If my life, or my childs life was threatened then yes, I would shoot.
Show me in the bible where I should let my son be killed without protecting him!

​Thank You!!!!

 

[matt7777777]

I be if we took these people a dropped them of in getto of houston theyd want a gun then.. its one thing to say you wouldnt defend yourself but its a whole new ball game if you actually find yourself in w life or death situation... dont get me wrong its great that yall wanna just live a life of peace but i think its kind of a niaive view... you may be able to go your whole life without being in a life or death sitiuation but milions of other people aint so lucky.

 

[JimJimmers]

Not sure where you are getting your stats on Australia, but they are wrong!

His stats are right. He said crime was bad, not 'homicides by firearm'. This chart is from the Australian government:

[h=5]Violent crimes from 1996 to 2007 (per 100,000 persons per year)[/h]

Take special note of the homicide rate in 1996. (If you can get past the assault bar.) Australia has always had a low homicide rate, even in 1996. Comparing Australia's gun homicide rate to America's is worthless without context. Antarctica has a low murder rate, and no gun control, but that's obviously a cherry-picked statistic. Just like Japan is.

"In 1996, 28-year-old Martin Bryant shot and killed 35 people near the Port Arthur historic site, a popular tourist destination. After the shootings, the country banned and bought up automatic and semi-automatic long guns, destroying at least 600,000 in 12 months — ultimately about a third of its privately owned guns.

It worked, King argues.

"Since the (Martin) Bryant killings and the resulting tough gun laws, homicides by firearm have declined almost 60 percent in Australia. The guns-for-everyone advocates hate that statistic, and dispute it, but as Bill Clinton likes to say, it's not opinion. It's arithmetic, honey."

One path to "almost 60 percent" comes from statistics compiled in part by Philip Alpers, a public health professor at the University of Sydney. The number of gun homicides fell from 69 in 1996 (excluding the 35 victims of the mass shooting prompting the laws) to 30 in 2012.

Of course gun homicides went down, that is a meaningless statistic. There are other ways to kill people. Let's look at murder and manslaughter:

[h=5]Homicide victims from 1993 to 2007 (number per year)[/h]

What happened in '98 and '99 there? It looks like murders increased! Not bad for spending half a BILLION dollars of taxpayer money on destroying firearms.

Amazing how people pull out the wrong stats

It really is.

I think the US has a big problem that is probably not solvable.

As Ariel says - we need to get back to prayer. Revival of the hearts of people in America is the only thing that is going to stop gun violence!

I agree.

 

[4enlightment]

This thread isn't about marriage.

Someone attempting to harm ones child is totally different than a direct command from God. Which btw was a test and Abrahams child was not killed.

Matthew 19:10The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

1 Corinthians 7:9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

1 Corinthians 7
32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

Job 1:21and said: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I will depart. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised.”

Job didn't had said this for an excuse for him to get naked; but he had said this for the reason not to curse God by showing that no matter what happens that he isn't going to abandon God for the worldly affairs. But God understand that there isn't no one like Job that is able to do this in times of troubles. But the story of Job is showing what God is looking for, eventhough that we don't reaches this goal, He like it when you tries. Even john had fell during testing, because started doubting when he was imprisonment, that Jesus is the one that he was waiting for. ( Matthew 11- After Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and preach in the towns of Galilee.
2 When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples 3 to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”
4 Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see: 5 The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. 6 Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.” )

Mark 4:20Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—some thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times what was sown.”

 

[Dude653]

Remember when Jesus instructed his disciples to go out and buy swords?

 

[4enlightment]

Remember when Jesus instructed his disciples to go out and buy swords?

35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”
“Nothing,” they answered.
36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’;and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”
38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”
“That’s enough!” he replied.

Jesus was referring to them that before they went out with nothing and has gain something, but then he had said to them, now go ahead and leave with these items and see what good it will do; but they had taken it out of context in what He was implying to them, because they were without understanding. So basically when they had said that they have two sword, Jesus was basically saying in His thought, Oh boy, they don't even get the point in what I was referring to. That is why He had told them," That's enough." Because the devil had their minds twisted so badly. But eventhough that they had two swords but Jesus was still was nailed to the Cross. It was not what they had desired to happen, but it is what God desires.

Matthew 26:39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

 

[Grandpa]

35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”
“Nothing,” they answered.
36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’;and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”
38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”
“That’s enough!” he replied.

Jesus was referring to them that before they went out with nothing and has gain something, but then he had said to them, now go ahead and leave with these items and see what good it will do; but they had taken it out of context in what He was implying to them, because they were without understanding. So basically when they had said that they have two sword, Jesus was basically saying in His thought, Oh boy, they don't even get the point in what I was referring to. That is why He had told them," That's enough." Because the devil had their minds twisted so badly. But eventhough that they had two swords but Jesus was still was nailed to the Cross. It was not what they had desired to happen, but it is what God desires.

Matthew 26:39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

The Lord knew that the Shepherd would be smitten and the sheep would be scattered.

That is why He told them to keep their purse and if they didn't have a sword to go buy one. They were going to have to fend for themselves for a time.

 

[4enlightment]

The Lord knew that the Shepherd would be smitten and the sheep would be scattered.

That is why He told them to keep their purse and if they didn't have a sword to go buy one. They were going to have to fend for themselves for a time.

Matthew 26:51With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

Matthew 26:52“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Well I guess Jesus should had let the ones that He was acompanied by finished cutting off the rest of the crowds' ears . But wouldn't that effect them mentally when the next time when they started the revolution that they will not know what ear to cut off from whom? Or would they be afraid to sleep next to their sword because of what Jesus had said about what would happen if they Live by the sword?

 

[Elizabeth619]

Morning folks.
Do y'all ever read someone's post, and see how they totally twist a passage and you're in such awe that you just want to beat your head against a wall?

Well, I'm having one of those moments right now.

 

[JimJimmers]

Matthew 26:51With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

Matthew 26:52“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Well I guess Jesus should had let the ones that He was acompanied by finished cutting off the rest of the crowds' ears . But wouldn't that effect them mentally when the next time when they started the revolution that they will not know what ear to cut off from whom? Or would they be afraid to sleep next to their sword because of what Jesus had said about what would happen if they Live by the sword?

First of all, Peter wasn't aiming for the ear, LOL. The guy dodged. No one cuts off an ear after saying "Shall we slay with the sword?" Jesus sacrificed Himself for us, and He went with the soldiers. But He told Peter to put the sword in his sheath, He didn't tell him to throw it away. If we are truly to resist not evil in any way, then Paul sinned when he ducked out in the basket.