gal 3:10-12 to those who keep looking law ward.

[eternally-gratefull]

Even Peter understood that Pauls writings were hard to understand.

2 PETER 3 [15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.

Even to their own destruction

ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.

You make all these claims about Paul and the law. Looks like the Jews of Pauls time were saying the same things im hearing now from you. Paul set them straight. He has done nothing to offend the law of the Jews

peter was condemning a licentious gospel. peter who twisted pauls words, and thought they could believe with no repentance, And no faith, and continue to live however they wanted,, and they would be saved..

This is not true, a licentious gospel will no more save you than a legalistic gospel.. They are both from satan!

 

[john832]

We will be guilty until the day we die.

Unless we have been washed by the blood of Christ by our faith, we will continue to be guilty, and suffer eternally as we deserve to be..

Well that is incorrect. We are guilty of sins we commit right up until the time we repent and ask for forgiveness...

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Psa 103:1 A Psalm of David. Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
Psa 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
Psa 103:3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

Psa 103:10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
Psa 103:11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

It must be terrible to think that you are guilty until the day you die.

 

[Grandpa]

God says the carnal mind cannot be subject to His Law. OK, I believe that.

How does one fulfill the righteousness of 'Thou shalt not commit adultery.' while having a go at the neighbors spouse? Don't you have to obey in the letter as well as the spirit? Or is it OK to think nice thoughts while breaking the letter?

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; [SUP]
5 [/SUP]does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[Wall]

No. there are way more than ten. there are literally hundreds..

and the commands can set me free?? How? I have already failed.. Thus I am already guilty.

As paul said, if the commands could set me free. Christ came in vein.. He died for nothing!

Deuteronomy 4:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Psalm 89:34-35 (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.


Have you altered the 4th?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think you are misreading that. Verse 5 says 'He was manifested to take away sin', not He was manifested to take away the Law'.

And we can know sin minus the law how??

Now tell me what righteousness is?

Anything done which is outward focused. For the love of God and our neighbors. which is not self motivated. Anything else is sin!

And you do not understand the difference between born and begotten...

I was beggotten by the blood of Christ. Not by my good deads.. do not understand the difference between grace and works.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

I have waded through 1 Cor 15 several times showing that we are not BORN until the resurrection.

You can wade all you want. I have posted many verses which prove this theory is not true.. You reject them, in doing so. you make scripture contradict itself.

Here is just one.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, [SUP]23 [/SUP]having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,


When I get home, we will look at the greek.. Begotten is just another way to say born. But will say this to disprove you.

I was born by my mother, My mother begot me.. They both are saying the exact same thing, talking of one event.

Maybe that is too hard for you to understand??

 

[john832]

And we can know sin minus the law how??



Anything done which is outward focused. For the love of God and our neighbors. which is not self motivated. Anything else is sin!



I was beggotten by the blood of Christ. Not by my good deads.. do not understand the difference between grace and works.



You can wade all you want. I have posted many verses which prove this theory is not true.. You reject them, in doing so. you make scripture contradict itself.

Here is just one.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, [SUP]23 [/SUP]having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,


When I get home, we will look at the greek.. Begotten is just another way to say born. But will say this to disprove you.

I was born by my mother, My mother begot me.. They both are saying the exact same thing, talking of one event.

Maybe that is too hard for you to understand??

If you think that the act of begettal is the same as the act of birth, we are not only on different pages, we are in different books.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well that is incorrect. We are guilty of sins we commit right up until the time we repent and ask for forgiveness...

well that would be incorect. because there is no way possible we can remember every sin and ask forgiveness. let alone remember all sin we will commit, to even think of asking forgiveness. Plus christ died 2000 years ago.. he took my debt before I was even born.. if forgiveness is only given to those up to a certain point, then christ would have to return to doe for those sins he did not pay for.. saying this puts him to open shame. hebrews tells us this, If I can fall away, I can NEVER be renewed.. i am doomed forever..

we are not saved, unsaved, saved unsaved.. we are born again and given eternal life, or we are still dead.. there is no inbetween.

plus, Jesus said I was born nefore the foundation of the world.. before I commited one sin.

you using law. not grace..

It must be terrible to think that you are guilty until the day you die.

Actually it is essential.

why?

I can never be to proud to think i ever made it
I will not stop working, but continue to try
I will never boast how good I am, or judge others, because I am just as undeserving as they are.. instead I will show them gods love and forgiveness, and hopefully bring them to him.. and let God change them.

I can go on and on, But I hope you get the point.

 

[Wall]

peter was condemning a licentious gospel. peter who twisted pauls words, and thought they could believe with no repentance, And no faith, and continue to live however they wanted,, and they would be saved..

This is not true, a licentious gospel will no more save you than a legalistic gospel.. They are both from satan!

So the bottom line is your saying satan wants us to keep the 10 commandments and Jesus don't want us to keep the 10 commandments.

Boy oh boy

Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)
8 REMEMBER THE SABBATH day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Revelation 14:6-7 (KJV)
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and WORSHIP HIM THAT MADE HEAVEN, AND EARTH, AND THE SEA, and the fountains of waters.

The hour of judgment is coming

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you think that the act of begettal is the same as the act of birth, we are not only on different pages, we are in different books.

we are in different books.. We also worship different Gods.

I was born again. Christ begot me. Both are the same event.

My God is a god of love and forgiveness which can not be earned, based on his mercy and love not my works.

Your God can not even keep his promise, and saves people he somehow does not know will continue in sin, so he has to take his salvation back.

I do not know you God..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So the bottom line is your saying satan wants us to keep the 10 commandments and Jesus don't want us to keep the 10 commandments.

No, the bottom line is we can;t keep the ten.. Let alone keep the hundreds of other laws given. (which is why I sometimes say the ten commands are Gods law for dummies. We can;t even keep these ten.. so how could we think we have kept all of them?? )

Thus according to the law we are guilty. and have no hope..

How good is good enough? According to the law. 100 % obedience from birth to death, anything else false short. And according to the law. Forgiveness can only come via death (death must pay for death)

Christ died once for ALL SIN,., and sits by the right hand of God./ thus he did away with the law.

you have two choices when you stand in front of God.

you have his forgiveness based on Christs death,or you have your guilt based on the law.

There is no inbetween..

 

[Wall]

So we fool ourselves into thinking we are good people and worthy of God salvation? How do you think you could ever do this?? Do you not get it that it takes 100% obedience 24/7 to even think about being worthy, and even then, your still unworthy for your past sin, and the sin you will commit in the future?

this is the problem with legalism. It all sounds good. it all sounds right and just, But it is from satan, it fools people into thinking they are better than everyone else, instead of giving God credit where credit is due, and realising, as Paul did, we are still wretched people undeserving of Gods grace. And while knowing this, can continue to run the race, and can BOLDLY come to God when we mess up, Because we KNOW he still loves us..

Your message sounds like a message of light, it sounds great, But even Satan comes as an angel of light, Your message is a message of darkness. and will only lead people to hell!

Just remember before you send us people to hell for trying to keep Gods law....theres gonna be a fire

LUKE 3 [16] John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:[17] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but THE CHAFF HE WILL BURN WITH FIRE UNQUENCHABLE.

MATTHEW 3 [11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: HE SHALL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST, and with fire:[12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; BUT HE WILL BURN UP THE CHAFF WITH UNQUENCHABLE FIRE.

So who are the chaff? The people that Jesus will burn up

LUKE 4 [34] Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; THE HOLY ONE of God.

ACTS 2 [25] For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:[26] Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:[27] Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer THINE HOLY ONE to see corruption.

Jesus surely is the Holy One

ISAIAH 5 [24] Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and THE FLAME CONSUMETH THE CHAFF, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: BECAUSE THEY HAVE CAST AWAY THE LAW OF THE LORD OF HOSTS, and despised the word of THE HOLY ONE of Israel.

Theres the people Jesus {the Holy One} will burn. Those who believe they can cast away His law. Hmmm....just the opposite of what you claim EG.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just remember before you send us people to hell for trying to keep Gods law....theres gonna be a fire

You do not have to worry about me my friend. You have to worry about God. I am no tthe one who says we cannot be saved by keeping the law, God does.

If you wanna try to keep the law. Thats great! I worry more about being filled with the spirit. than keeping the law. because paul says this is how we keep the law.. i am not just going to be puffed up in pride and think I can do it 100 % every day. That would make me a pharisee!!

LUKE 3 [16] John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:[17] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but THE CHAFF HE WILL BURN WITH FIRE UNQUENCHABLE.

MATTHEW 3 [11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: HE SHALL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST, and with fire:[12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; BUT HE WILL BURN UP THE CHAFF WITH UNQUENCHABLE FIRE.

So who are the chaff? The people that Jesus will burn up

it is easy, It is in the context of the text.

You are either baptized with the HS, or with Fire.

I have been baptized by the HS based on my faith in him.. All who are not baptized with the spirit will be baptized into hell..

Everyone will be baptized by Christ. if you think you will get out of being baptized in fire by the law.. you are sadly mistaken.

Theres the people Jesus {the Holy One} will burn. Those who believe they can cast away His law. Hmmm....just the opposite of what you claim EG.

Nope..

Those cast in fire are those who do not believe..

he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already..

Your faith is in law and self (your ability to keep the law) . My faith is in Christ.. I am not condemned. The law condemns you, because you already failed to do what you claim you are trying to do. why that does not get through to you that the law will not save you because you already failed is beyond me.. But that is not for me to wonder,,

i will keep my faith in Christ, you keep yours in law..

 

[crossnote]

true, but as Christ says, all of them can be found in just two..

Love the lord, and your neighbor. If we do these things (outward focus) we will not break any of the 600 some odd laws.

if we look at self for anything, we will break 1 or more of the 600 plus laws.

which is why we cannot be perfect. We can not look outward 100% of the day 365 days a year. Any though which looks at self, and not at God or neighbor is sin, And we do it all the time, Anyone who denies this, is in denial himself (As John said in 1 John)

Oh yes, that's why I shudder when I hear those say I never sin...which means that they are loving God with ALL their heart, mind, soul and strength ALL the time AND their neighbor as themselves ALL the time 60 sec/min,60min/hr., 24rs./day, etc.
If they think they are achieving that or that is their hope for growth then they are truly deceive.

 

[john832]

we are in different books.. We also worship different Gods.

I was born again. Christ begot me. Both are the same event.

My God is a god of love and forgiveness which can not be earned, based on his mercy and love not my works.

Your God can not even keep his promise, and saves people he somehow does not know will continue in sin, so he has to take his salvation back.

Now here is a statement I refuse to make, agree with, disagree with or even acknowledge. I think you are treading on dangerous ground here. Our personal difference apart, this is something that neither of us wants to get into.

I do not know you God..

Perhaps not, but I think you will get the opportunity to meet Him.

 

[john832]

Oh yes, that's why I shudder when I hear those say I never sin...which means that they are loving God with ALL their heart, mind, soul and strength ALL the time AND their neighbor as themselves ALL the time 60 sec/min,60min/hr., 24rs./day, etc.
If they think they are achieving that or that is their hope for growth then they are truly deceive.

John plainly says the contrary...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

There is a remedy for the sins we commit, the mistakes we make...

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Blain]

The ten commandments were guide lines to follow, Even when the Lord gave them to the people he knew it was impossible for mankind to keep all of them all the time. The Christians whose faith is built on the law are almost always vs the Christians whose faith is built on the blood and love of the lamb. Neither side will back down, but the difference is that both ways can be taken too far if we rely on a single kind of faith. Faith built on the law and being righteous has it's good sides, but when taken to far they become convinced they are righteous and are the TRUE church because they follow the law flawlessly. Which the begins to corrupt their minds and heart and they sit on a high horse looking down on other christians who acknowledge we cannot fully keep the commandments.

The there is the other side of the coin where people do as they please and say to themselves( It's okay i am covered by grace) They do not try very hard to keep the commandments because they assume they do not really need to because of the blood of the lamb. these people then fall away from God very fast and Kiss goodbye the cheek of their first love. Both these kinds of people are spoken of in revelations as two kinds of churches.

There must be a balance between these two kinds of beliefs, other wise we will easily be deceived. they are two sides of the same coin. they are one things but many choose one side or the other. We do not follow the commands out of fear anymore because of Jesus, we now follow it because we have a great deal of love and respect for our Lord. But knowing how impossible it is to fully keep these commands we are also very grateful for the amazing grace given to us.

How easy it is to take scripture out of context to fit our own agendas, yet how hard it is for people to listen and understand the scripture given to them and learn to change their ways. Thus the lord has hidden these scripture messages from the ones who claim to be right and will not believe any different and give them to the humble in heart and who are more than willing to be taught. To hunger deeply for God puts great delight in his heart, these people who truly hunger for him are given such a humble heart and are revealed secrets hidden from arrogant men. Without a deep love for God all faith will fail, and thus we seek to be right in gods eyes by separating the coin and building our faith on them.

 

[john832]

Unless I overlooked it, no one has explained this yet...

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[crossnote]

No one ever seems to explain this one to me...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Now no longer say 'no one has answered this passage to me'
...When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
(Mat 19:25-26)

 

[john832]

Now no longer say 'no one has answered this passage to me'
...When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
(Mat 19:25-26)

OK, so you are saying we CAN keep the Commandments with God's help? On this we agree...


Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

[Wall]

You do not have to worry about me my friend. You have to worry about God. I am no tthe one who says we cannot be saved by keeping the law, God does.

If you wanna try to keep the law. Thats great! I worry more about being filled with the spirit. than keeping the law.

So you claim to have received the Holy Spirit

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[21] HE THAT HATH MY COMMANDMENTS, AND KEEPETH THEM, HE IT IS THAT LOVETH ME: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I WILL LOVE HIM, AND WILL MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM.

In order to receive the Holy Spirit we must first be keeping Gods 10 commandments. The 4th included. Thats what John 14{15-16} says. This truth is also found in verse {21}.

ACTS 5 [29] Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.[30] The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.[31] Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.[32] And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also THE HOLY GHOST, WHOM GOD HATH GIVEN TO THEM THAT OBEY HIM.

Holy Ghost {Spirit} is given to them who OBEY God

DEUT.27 [10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the LORD thy God, and DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

JOHN 10 [27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The sheep Jesus came for will “obey the voice”. Obey GOD and do his commandments and then recieve Gods Holy Spirit

ACTS 2 [38] Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.

You no doubt are to repent of sin. Sin is the transgression of the law. If you are not transgressing the law, you are then keeping Gods 10 commandments. Its then youll recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit