I was wondering and the bible does say not to forsake the assembly of other believers but I was wondering as far as attending church services, is it biblical to attend services routinely as a guest to the assembly and never become a member of the assembly (as far as applying for membership) but just only remaining a guest. All assemblies (which most people call a church, but we as believers are the church according to the bible) do not mandate being a member to attend services and fellowship with one another even if they have been going for years.
Attending Services as a Guest vs Membership
- Thread starter Shyness
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L
I would see nothing wrong with this--I think what it means by "not forsaking the assembly" is not forsaking the broader body of Christians. As a college student, I regularly attend Mass at up to three or four different places a week. I'm still registered in my home parish, but I go to school two hours away from it. As a result, I tend to visit a lot of Churches. Nothing wrong with this, but also don't "Church shop," that is, look for a place that feels comfortable to you--stability is a good thing for your spiritual growth, and so remaining in the same circumstances and the same assembly for a long time is a very good thing. I'm in a more transitional point in my life, and so visiting a few places a week isn't really damaging--furthermore, I attend the same Church the majority of the week. Hope this helps.
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Hmm tough call....
On one hand what's the point of being a 'member'. It almost sounds like you're joining a Sam's Club or special exclusive CD club. I don't see a biblical mandate for signing some card that makes you a member of a church....
On the other hand, if I was running an official church type thing in a building or house, and I needed folks to assist in the work of the church..ie teaching..preaching..leading worship..children's ministry - I would want something on paper that shows some kind of commitment and that they believe according to the Bible.
Soo I guess, if you're going to serve in some major office within the local church, some kind of formal commitment that shows you are committed to the teachings and doctrines of that church would probably be appropriate.
On one hand what's the point of being a 'member'. It almost sounds like you're joining a Sam's Club or special exclusive CD club. I don't see a biblical mandate for signing some card that makes you a member of a church....
On the other hand, if I was running an official church type thing in a building or house, and I needed folks to assist in the work of the church..ie teaching..preaching..leading worship..children's ministry - I would want something on paper that shows some kind of commitment and that they believe according to the Bible.
Soo I guess, if you're going to serve in some major office within the local church, some kind of formal commitment that shows you are committed to the teachings and doctrines of that church would probably be appropriate.
C
One of the ladies at church was teasing me about having dual citizenchip. I'm on the member list of one church, where my family still attends, but I'm on the praise team and attending services at another church. I'm still involved at the first church and help out with stuff when I can. Is that ok? Do I have to go where my membership is, or should I just make the official switch to the other one?
Pastors are also known as shepherds or to say the least co-shepherds with Jesus being the Great Shepherd. and the people are to be part of that flock, which would be under the shepherd. and also we break down the Local assembly as One body having many members, but one Body as well as the Big Church being the Body of Christ, with many members but one Body, but with one Head as well as the local assembly needs to have one head, as long as that head is in line with scriptures. now I wouldn't won't anyone to join a church for this reason but if you decide not to join a church and ten years later someone at your work joins the same church you are attending and both of you loses your jobs, then the Church should help the member first over you, even though you have been going there the longest.
But Bibical I see church membership in alot of areas in the Bible but no there is no verse that says ye must join a Church. if two people from the Church say one is a member and the other is not. and let's say that the one that is not, does something against the member and the member tries to apply Church discipline, where they go through the steps with the last step being before the Church, and the Church agrees that the non member wronged the member and they apply church discipline then the non member doesn't have to apply, to the finding of the church simply by saying I am not a member here I don't have to do what you all say. and I think this is where being part of the flock comes in the play. plus the member of the Church are suppose to receive spiritual gifts to edify the Church, if you are not part of the Church, then God may not bless you with gifts, if you are just in it for yourself and not what you can give back to the local assembly. we have a saying here I twisted the words of a Pres, Kenndy. Ask not what the church can do for you, but rather ask what you can do for the Church and this should be the goal of every member. if you never joined i think that would be a very selfish act, because you would never be able to use what God has blessed you with, to help out others.
But Bibical I see church membership in alot of areas in the Bible but no there is no verse that says ye must join a Church. if two people from the Church say one is a member and the other is not. and let's say that the one that is not, does something against the member and the member tries to apply Church discipline, where they go through the steps with the last step being before the Church, and the Church agrees that the non member wronged the member and they apply church discipline then the non member doesn't have to apply, to the finding of the church simply by saying I am not a member here I don't have to do what you all say. and I think this is where being part of the flock comes in the play. plus the member of the Church are suppose to receive spiritual gifts to edify the Church, if you are not part of the Church, then God may not bless you with gifts, if you are just in it for yourself and not what you can give back to the local assembly. we have a saying here I twisted the words of a Pres, Kenndy. Ask not what the church can do for you, but rather ask what you can do for the Church and this should be the goal of every member. if you never joined i think that would be a very selfish act, because you would never be able to use what God has blessed you with, to help out others.
Thaddaeus, I understand what you are saying but also applying for membership as far as I view it is a very difficult and tedious and stressful process at some assemblies at least to me, plus one is automatically a member of the biblical church when they surrender their lives to Jesus Christ and become saved. Some assemblies require that one must interview (which sounds like nerve torture to me since I'm autistic and I get stressed out on interviews), which they might grade just like a job interview and another thing, plus there are some assemblies that tend to want to take control of a member's life and their income. One 65 year old lady was ejected from her home church when she stopped tithing 10% of her income to the assembly because she was in the hospital having open heart surgery. The entire article is at http://freetogive.net/?p=66. This is also another discouragement of applying for membership. Plus I view a church as a body of believers, not a club such as Sam's Club or a Country Club.
by the way, I messed up on the link, but that was a different article about a different person, the true article's address is http://www.hydesvilletithing.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=30. This one is about the 65 year old woman who got kicked out since she quit tithing due to having open heart surgery. The other link is one about that did not find tithing relevant.
They should not have to have membership like that. You can be treated as a second class citizen if you aren't a member.
Contrary to Thaddeus's post about heads in the local assembly I believe the word pastor is only mentioned once in the new testament as shepherd, and the idea of a church being under the authority of one single pastor is not supported by the bible.
There is only One Head called Jesus Christ and the rest are members of the body INCLUDING any pastor.
Contrary to Thaddeus's post about heads in the local assembly I believe the word pastor is only mentioned once in the new testament as shepherd, and the idea of a church being under the authority of one single pastor is not supported by the bible.
There is only One Head called Jesus Christ and the rest are members of the body INCLUDING any pastor.
Ain't it a shame what man has done to the House of God which was to be a house of prayer,
but how else is the pastor to keep up the payments on his new towncar if the widows don't tithe.
see the church was to take care of the widows not the other way around but ok i understand if a church wants a pastor 24/7 than they need to pay the piper, but I saw the piper walking, do they all have to drive brand new cady's and lincolns, while the widows go to bed hungrily.
Jas 1:27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
but there are some God fearing Churches still around seek the guidance from the Holy Spirit. and give up on the House of God
but how else is the pastor to keep up the payments on his new towncar if the widows don't tithe.
see the church was to take care of the widows not the other way around but ok i understand if a church wants a pastor 24/7 than they need to pay the piper, but I saw the piper walking, do they all have to drive brand new cady's and lincolns, while the widows go to bed hungrily.
Jas 1:27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
but there are some God fearing Churches still around seek the guidance from the Holy Spirit. and give up on the House of God
oh boy! you will use your opinion to disagree with anything i say won't you. how many times does it have to say in the Bible something before we should go by it 2 times 10 times 100 times ????????? let me show you some More scriptures:
1ti 3:2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;1ti 3:3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;1ti 3:4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;1ti 3:5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
BISH''OP, n. [L. episcopus; Gr. of, over, and inspector, or visitor; to view, or inspect; whence, to visit; also, to view. This Greek and Latin word accompanied the introduction of christianity into the west and north of Europe.]
1. An overseer; a spiritual superintendent, ruler or director; applied to Christ.
Ye were as sheep going astray, but are now returned to the shepherd and bishop of your souls. 1. Pet.2.
2. In the primitive church, a spiritual overseer; an elder or presbyter; one who had the pastoral care of a church.
The same persons are in this chapter called elders or presbyters,and overseers or bishops. Scott,Comm. Acts.20.
Till the churches were multiplied, the bishops and presbyters were the same. Ib. Phil.1.1. 1. Tim.3.1. Tit. 1.7. Both the Greek and Latin fathers do, with one consent, declare, that bishops were called presbyters, and presbyters bishops, in apostolic times, the name being then common.
Ye were as sheep going astray, but are now returned to the shepherd and bishop of your souls. 1. Pet.2.
1ti 3:2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;1ti 3:3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;1ti 3:4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;1ti 3:5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
BISH''OP, n. [L. episcopus; Gr. of, over, and inspector, or visitor; to view, or inspect; whence, to visit; also, to view. This Greek and Latin word accompanied the introduction of christianity into the west and north of Europe.]
1. An overseer; a spiritual superintendent, ruler or director; applied to Christ.
Ye were as sheep going astray, but are now returned to the shepherd and bishop of your souls. 1. Pet.2.
2. In the primitive church, a spiritual overseer; an elder or presbyter; one who had the pastoral care of a church.
The same persons are in this chapter called elders or presbyters,and overseers or bishops. Scott,Comm. Acts.20.
Till the churches were multiplied, the bishops and presbyters were the same. Ib. Phil.1.1. 1. Tim.3.1. Tit. 1.7. Both the Greek and Latin fathers do, with one consent, declare, that bishops were called presbyters, and presbyters bishops, in apostolic times, the name being then common.
Ye were as sheep going astray, but are now returned to the shepherd and bishop of your souls. 1. Pet.2.
Thaddeus I only disagree with your idea of "co-shepherds, and local assemblies having one head". No, There is only one Head Jesus Christ, and He is the only Shepherd. The importance of having pastors over local assemblies is greatly exaggerated. The idea of a pastor being a go-between Christ and the members of a local congregation is not correct. 1. Pet.2. says Jesus is the shepherd and bishop of a person's soul. Not the pastor. Surely you realise that 1 Peter 2 refers not to you, or any bishop or pastor, but to Christ.
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church membership:
Well, in the letters Paul wrote to different churches.. one of the churches he writes to.. I think have a person being recommended by a letter to another church to becoming a member of that church.
At my own church, at baptism.. you become a member of that assembly.. a distinctive of ana-baptist, independent baptist, independent missionary baptist churches.. and other independent churches.
The baptism happens after salvation.. but with this.. members are given extra responsiblity if they want it, to have a job in the assembly. If someone is visitor.. they could come along as long as they like.. but won't be given leadership responsibilities until they are ready to make a commitment through baptism and commiting to a job in the assembly. The job could be something quite small.. like putting out the sign that stands outside the church building.. or something like that.
Why is it like this? Because most of the writing of Paul's is admonishing churches.. whether it be at Corinth or Phillipi or Colosse or Ephesus etc.. to be faithful assemblies.. to serve Jesus out of a pure heart, as the Head of each assembly. So then there needs to be a measure of accountablity and church discipline and service to Jesus in an assembly.
This ain't works based salvation.. just having faithful assembly, united together to follow Jesus.
church = a New Testament assembly of saved baptised people, covenanted together to carry out the Great Commandment and the Great Commission with Jesus as the Head of that assembly.
A visitor can come as long as they like.. but can't expect to do everything the ministry leaders and committed members do.. this isn't a second class citizen thing.. just putting in place something that honours Jesus, so an assembly of His has faithful members. A visitor could decide they want to become a member.. and then there is no problem.. get em baptised, give them a job.. and have accountability measures in place.
Well, in the letters Paul wrote to different churches.. one of the churches he writes to.. I think have a person being recommended by a letter to another church to becoming a member of that church.
At my own church, at baptism.. you become a member of that assembly.. a distinctive of ana-baptist, independent baptist, independent missionary baptist churches.. and other independent churches.
The baptism happens after salvation.. but with this.. members are given extra responsiblity if they want it, to have a job in the assembly. If someone is visitor.. they could come along as long as they like.. but won't be given leadership responsibilities until they are ready to make a commitment through baptism and commiting to a job in the assembly. The job could be something quite small.. like putting out the sign that stands outside the church building.. or something like that.
Why is it like this? Because most of the writing of Paul's is admonishing churches.. whether it be at Corinth or Phillipi or Colosse or Ephesus etc.. to be faithful assemblies.. to serve Jesus out of a pure heart, as the Head of each assembly. So then there needs to be a measure of accountablity and church discipline and service to Jesus in an assembly.
This ain't works based salvation.. just having faithful assembly, united together to follow Jesus.
church = a New Testament assembly of saved baptised people, covenanted together to carry out the Great Commandment and the Great Commission with Jesus as the Head of that assembly.
A visitor can come as long as they like.. but can't expect to do everything the ministry leaders and committed members do.. this isn't a second class citizen thing.. just putting in place something that honours Jesus, so an assembly of His has faithful members. A visitor could decide they want to become a member.. and then there is no problem.. get em baptised, give them a job.. and have accountability measures in place.
several places in the old Testament pastors are mentioned as shepherds with flocks
Jer 10:21For the PASTORs are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.
Jer 23:1Woe be unto the PASTORs that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.Jer 23:2Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the PASTORs that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
even when Jesus asked peter if he loved Him He said peter feed My sheep<( surely you don't think that He was referring to real wool bearing sheep), 2nd note He didn't say peter help Me feed My sheep, He gave the responiblity to peter or man. surely you don't think that peter was a God. 3rd point here He Didn't say peter , john, matthew,and luke feed my sheep He said to one man peter feed my sheep, we can play the if game all you won't want, you think, what i think, you put words in my saying. you try to belittle me with ever post of mine that you respond to, Again Let me say this as plain as I can it's not about you and me. I give scriptures to support every doctrine I say that i believe is Bibical , mostly what we get from you is your opinion. just as with flocks, if you have more than one ram within the pasture you get alot of butting heads, as with more than one pastor in charge of a flock. you get alot of butting of heads which will be nothing but confusion within the Church, yeah sure you can have youth pastors and teen pastors but their should only be one in charge, over a flock. take one note fromthese scriptures
1pe 5:1The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:1pe 5:2Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;1pe 5:3Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.1pe 5:4And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.1pe 5:5Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
submit yourselves unto the elder. the elder ( singular not plural ) not the elders , but submit to the Elder,
Jer 10:21For the PASTORs are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.
Jer 23:1Woe be unto the PASTORs that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.Jer 23:2Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the PASTORs that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
even when Jesus asked peter if he loved Him He said peter feed My sheep<( surely you don't think that He was referring to real wool bearing sheep), 2nd note He didn't say peter help Me feed My sheep, He gave the responiblity to peter or man. surely you don't think that peter was a God. 3rd point here He Didn't say peter , john, matthew,and luke feed my sheep He said to one man peter feed my sheep, we can play the if game all you won't want, you think, what i think, you put words in my saying. you try to belittle me with ever post of mine that you respond to, Again Let me say this as plain as I can it's not about you and me. I give scriptures to support every doctrine I say that i believe is Bibical , mostly what we get from you is your opinion. just as with flocks, if you have more than one ram within the pasture you get alot of butting heads, as with more than one pastor in charge of a flock. you get alot of butting of heads which will be nothing but confusion within the Church, yeah sure you can have youth pastors and teen pastors but their should only be one in charge, over a flock. take one note fromthese scriptures
1pe 5:1The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:1pe 5:2Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;1pe 5:3Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.1pe 5:4And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.1pe 5:5Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
submit yourselves unto the elder. the elder ( singular not plural ) not the elders , but submit to the Elder,
But see 1 Peter 5:1, it says "The elders which are among you I exhort. "
Elders is plural.
Elders is also plural in James 5:14 it says:
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church
But do you even take notice of the verses you are quoting:
You quoted this:
1pe 5:3Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock
You are not supposed to lord it over the flock, but to serve and be an example. You are not in charge of the flock you are helping Christ the Great Shepherd tend to it. It is not your flock and not your sheep, it is Christ's, as Christ said feed "MY" Sheep. They are His sheep and you are a sheep as well.
1. Pet.2. says Jesus is the shepherd and bishop of a person's soul. Not the pastor. God appointed elders to be care for His sheep, not to have dominion over them.
Elders is plural.
Elders is also plural in James 5:14 it says:
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church
But do you even take notice of the verses you are quoting:
You quoted this:
1pe 5:3Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock
You are not supposed to lord it over the flock, but to serve and be an example. You are not in charge of the flock you are helping Christ the Great Shepherd tend to it. It is not your flock and not your sheep, it is Christ's, as Christ said feed "MY" Sheep. They are His sheep and you are a sheep as well.
1. Pet.2. says Jesus is the shepherd and bishop of a person's soul. Not the pastor. God appointed elders to be care for His sheep, not to have dominion over them.
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J
1. Membership is kind of a new idea but I am conviced that the idea of what we consider as membership exists in the bible. Let me make a few preliminary notes. First Bishop () and Elder() the New testament each time without exception can be used interchangably. This is a fact. Every good greek dictionary will tell you, even good anglicans agree on this. Baptists, presbyterians, and most roman catholic scholars agree. So remember that as you read the Bible.
2. The New testament ideal for the church requires things that only today the concept of membership allows us to do. How can you discipline (excommunicate a person in the severe situations 1 cor 5) a person if he never joined your church in some sort of sense of corporate commitment? How can you make sure the Lord's Supper is not taken by unbelievers if there isn'T some sort of membership system? How can you be held accountable for giving (annanias and saphara in Acts) when you never promised you would?
3. How would you handle those who want to be involved with leadership when you do not know the theology or personalities? What is an unbeliever wants to lead worship and change the order of service but he is not a member. Let me just quickly add that we ought to support REGENERATE MEMBERSHIP ONLY! This means that ONLY THOSE who give evidences of godly living, fighting against sin, and profess to be born-again christians ought to be taken into full membership!
An excellent book on this subject is ''9 marks of a healthy church'' and excellent website that is devoted to all things church biblically based including topics discussed by excellent scholars much more educated and learned than us is 9 marks ministries. I highly suggest you go there.
2. The New testament ideal for the church requires things that only today the concept of membership allows us to do. How can you discipline (excommunicate a person in the severe situations 1 cor 5) a person if he never joined your church in some sort of sense of corporate commitment? How can you make sure the Lord's Supper is not taken by unbelievers if there isn'T some sort of membership system? How can you be held accountable for giving (annanias and saphara in Acts) when you never promised you would?
3. How would you handle those who want to be involved with leadership when you do not know the theology or personalities? What is an unbeliever wants to lead worship and change the order of service but he is not a member. Let me just quickly add that we ought to support REGENERATE MEMBERSHIP ONLY! This means that ONLY THOSE who give evidences of godly living, fighting against sin, and profess to be born-again christians ought to be taken into full membership!
An excellent book on this subject is ''9 marks of a healthy church'' and excellent website that is devoted to all things church biblically based including topics discussed by excellent scholars much more educated and learned than us is 9 marks ministries. I highly suggest you go there.
My wife and I have been going to my church for almost 6 years, and have yet to become members, although the previous pastor tried to force us to, and would not allow her to greet or me to usher because we wouldn't. However under the new pastor my wife runs the nursery ministry and I teach on Wednesday nights. I love my local church but will not join because it is a part of a larger denomination, that I would not feel comfortable joining.
B
I have no intention of joining any church as an official member. When I accepted christ as my savior I became a member of the the body, and a member of THE church. I already am.
This does not mean I do not actively serve or fullfil my obligations concerning tithing and submission to leadership. I simply do not believe that membership or denominationalism (if that's a word) is scriptual or of god. THere is is only one church with christ at the head.
I feel so strongly about this that if I were offered an ultimateum, i would leave.
This does not mean I do not actively serve or fullfil my obligations concerning tithing and submission to leadership. I simply do not believe that membership or denominationalism (if that's a word) is scriptual or of god. THere is is only one church with christ at the head.
I feel so strongly about this that if I were offered an ultimateum, i would leave.
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