ENOCH ( A introduction )

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Tintin

Guest
#41
#41
I don't know about Enoch being inspired but many of elements of the book (so far) definitely agree with the Bible and I believe they could be true (eg. fallen angels teaching humans how to make weapons to wage war etc). They're not Gnostic beliefs or anything like that. It's a bit early to comment though, because I'm working through Enoch 1 as we speak. I also have Enoch 2 and one by a Rabbi - Enoch 3.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#42
#42
oldhermit said:
So, are you suggesting that Enoch himself wrote the Book of Enoch?
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I'm trying to show its biblical. Weather he written down or not I dont know. But If it was written, he would have given it to his grandson Noah, and Noah would have kept that in the family and it would have been copied and passed down to each generation of the israelites . But what is covered in Enoch matches what is written.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#43
#43
Tintin said:
I don't know about Enoch being inspired but many of elements of the book (so far) definitely agree with the Bible and I believe they could be true (eg. fallen angels teaching humans how to make weapons to wage war etc). They're not Gnostic beliefs or anything like that. It's a bit early to comment though, because I'm working through Enoch 1 as we speak. I also have Enoch 2 and one by a Rabbi - Enoch 3.
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I only think Enoch 1/I is Biblical. There are many fakes out there . I would stick to the Ethiopian cannon Enoch1/I only as legit .

I have not read the others out there, but people I know and trust, tell others aside from the one I keep mentioning are not biblical .

I'll be back to this post later maybe. I hope people read it and then look in the Bible to see if it matches or not.
 
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Tintin

Guest
#44
#44
Okay, but I'll still read the rest for interest. It's easy to tell that Enoch 1 is a very early writing. I have a more modern translation and it's still features rather difficult wording at times and is quite dry in parts. The visions in the spiritual realms are pretty great though.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#45
Jul 28, 2012
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#45
nathan3 said:
I'm trying to show its biblical. Weather he written down or not I dont know. But If it was written, he would have given it to his grandson Noah, and Noah would have kept that in the family and it would have been copied and passed down to each generation of the israelites . But what is covered in Enoch matches what is written.
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The only thing in the Book of Enoch that can be considered biblical is that which is attributed to Enoch by Jude and Peter. The fact that they quote from Enoch does not in any way give any credibility to the "Book of Enoch" as an inspired document. Other New Testament writers quoted from uninspired sources too but that does sot suggest that those sources are inspired.
 
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OwenHeidenreich

Guest
#46
#46
How come I can't find the the inspired by God, book of Enoch, in my Bible? Did God forget to put one of his own inspired books in there?
 
thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#47
Jun 30, 2011
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#47
yeah - no - the Bible itself is plenty - until I got that one covered, then maybe
 
thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#48
Jun 30, 2011
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#48
I am hopeful that you are up to the condemnation that you could receive, trying to be a teacher, and I haven't heard any serious preacher, or student of God's word go to the book of enoch like the Bible isn't enough, so yeah...
 
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nathan3

Guest
#49
#49
OwenHeidenreich said:
How come I can't find the the inspired by God, book of Enoch, in my Bible? Did God forget to put one of his own inspired books in there?
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I dont understand. It is in the manuscripts. its there. Not in abundance but its there.

The english bible is not what the apostles read from or used. But the bible comes from the copied manuscripts, in Hebrew greek and aramic . people are the ones that choose which ones are in the Bible They did a good job, and it was in the Bible for some time. Until some one decided they did not like it and took it out and suppressed it.

Look up the history yourself, you have access to the internet . The history is there if you take the time.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#50
#50
nathan3 said:
You probably read the the Non - Ethiopian cannon . If you have read Enoch 1. Then I think you might have 2nd thoughts.

But, since this is a forum. you should mention the verse From Enoch 1/I that you think does not agree with the scriptures so we can address that .

This Thread is about Enoch I/1 not the other ones.
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actually i -was- referring to the ethiopic enoch...it is -overflowing- with stuff that is not at all substantiated anywhere in scripture...
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#51
#51
oldhermit said:
The only thing in the Book of Enoch that can be considered biblical is that which is attributed to Enoch by Jude and Peter. The fact that they quote from Enoch does not in any way give any credibility to the "Book of Enoch" as an inspired document. Other New Testament writers quoted from uninspired sources too but that does sot suggest that those sources are inspired.
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You know? Since Jesus said all scripture is God breathed and Jude mentions that passage from the Book of Enoch, I think that officially makes the Book of Enoch scripture. Now, whether or not what we've got is the original is the question. I do actually believe the 66 book cannon is all God's word, but there are other books mentioned in the OT that are not included in the 66 books. Those also were scripture, again, that are not included in those 66 books. We don't know that there are no other "God-breathed scriptures." Christ told us to judge everything according to how it lines up with scripture. It can't contradict. Only since the cannon was put together it's been said only those 66 books should be viewed as God-breathed scripture. Wonder who said that? Let me guess. A man.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#52
#52
Who is it that deems something "Inspired Scripture."
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#53
#53
oldhermit said:
The only thing in the Book of Enoch that can be considered biblical is that which is attributed to Enoch by Jude and Peter. The fact that they quote from Enoch does not in any way give any credibility to the "Book of Enoch" as an inspired document. Other New Testament writers quoted from uninspired sources too but that does sot suggest that those sources are inspired.
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it actually can't even be proven that jude quoted from the book of enoch...since the quotations do not line up exactly...both jude and the author of enoch could have been quoting from -another- document or tradition...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#54
#54
Shiloah said:
You know? Since Jesus said all scripture is God breathed and Jude mentions that passage from the Book of Enoch, I think that officially makes the Book of Enoch scripture. Now, whether or not what we've got is the original is the question. I do actually believe the 66 book cannon is all God's word, but there are other books mentioned in the OT that are not included in the 66 books. Those also were scripture, again, that are not included in those 66 books. We don't know that there are no other "God-breathed scriptures." Christ told us to judge everything according to how it lines up with scripture. It can't contradict. Only since the cannon was put together it's been said only those 66 books should be viewed as God-breathed scripture. Wonder who said that? Let me guess. A man.
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paul quotes three works of pagan literature...that doesn't make those three pagan books scripture...

also like i said in my previous post...the passage from the book of enoch does not line up exactly with the the passage in jude...so it really isn't even established that jude was quoting from the book of enoch...
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#55
#55
RachelBibleStudent said:
actually i -was- referring to the ethiopic enoch...it is -overflowing- with stuff that is not at all substantiated anywhere in scripture...
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I've read through the Book of Enoch (that we have today). A lot of it I do wonder about. I just read it as something I'm not sure of, but I feel it's still interesting because I don't feel it contradicts the message of the Bible. Even still, it seems pretty wild! lol. So it's one of those things I kind of just tuck on the shelf, so to speak. Maybe it at least tells us something of life before the flood? Maybe what we have today isn't all that accurate, who knows. That's probably why they didn't include it. But there were other books in the first KJV translation they didn't put in the second. Am I right?
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#56
#56
RachelBibleStudent said:
paul quotes three works of pagan literature...that doesn't make those three pagan books scripture...

also like i said in my previous post...the passage from the book of enoch does not line up exactly with the the passage in jude...so it really isn't even established that jude was quoting from the book of enoch...
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Sorry, I didn't see this post before I posted the other right below it. What you're saying makes sense.
 
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OwenHeidenreich

Guest
#57
#57
God wouldnt inspire the manuscripts, and then leave it up to man to compile it into one book (aka bible)

If God inspired the book, God would make sure it got in into our compilation of Biblical writings.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#58
#58
The Book of Enoch:“Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him.”

Jude he quotes from a prophecy of Enoch; Jude 1:14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints.”

Jude’s reference the Book of Enoch is not exact, which does seem to be contrary to the conclusion he quoted from the book of Enoch.

I have to wonder where Jude quoted that prophecy from. Guess there's no way of knowing.

Did Jude quote from the book of Enoch
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#59
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
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Alabama
#59
=Shiloah;1103329]You know? Since Jesus said all scripture is God breathed and Jude mentions that passage from the Book of Enoch, I think that officially makes the Book of Enoch scripture.
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All scripture is indeed inspired by God. What I am pointing out is that the "Book of Enoch" is not scripture. Jude only quoted a statement made by Enoch that clearly was inspired and Jude gives the inspired application of that quote . He is not quoting the "Book of Enoch."
Now, whether or not what we've got is the original is the question. I do actually believe the 66 book cannon is all God's word, but there are other books mentioned in the OT that are not included in the 66 books. Those also were scripture, again, that are not included in those 66 books. We don't know that there are no other "God-breathed scriptures." Christ told us to judge everything according to how it lines up with scripture. It can't contradict. Only since the cannon was put together it's been said only those 66 books should be viewed as God-breathed scripture. Wonder who said that? Let me guess. A man.
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This is very true. However, for what ever reason God saw fit not to retain these in the collection of canonized scripture. He have to assume that God has always involved in that process in order to preserve that which HE has chosen to preserve.

The writer of the book of Enoch did exactly what Joseph Smith did. He incorporated an apparently well known prophesy into his own work - the "book of Enoch." That does not give credence to all of the other nonsense that the book contains such as 450 foot giants.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#60
#60
Shiloah said:
I've read through the Book of Enoch (that we have today). A lot of it I do wonder about. I just read it as something I'm not sure of, but I feel it's still interesting because I don't feel it contradicts the message of the Bible. Even still, it seems pretty wild! lol. So it's one of those things I kind of just tuck on the shelf, so to speak. Maybe it at least tells us something of life before the flood? Maybe what we have today isn't all that accurate, who knows. That's probably why they didn't include it. But there were other books in the first KJV translation they didn't put in the second. Am I right?
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What we have are accurate to whats in the hand written copies .There are books called the Apocrypha of the old testament. Those are okay, like 1st and 2nd Esdras . thats just Ezra in the Greek. But i dont know much about them

The apocrypha of the new testament is not good, stay away from those :)
But for this thread we can cover whats in Enoch
 
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