Does God expect the Jews to stop Jewish rituals when they know Jesus?

[Praus]

I like that you get right down to bible facts! We are to know just what Christ made obsolete and obey!

Here is the history of what made me wonder. I put up a mezuzah when I read about it in Deut. My minister and his wife came for lunch and told me I was nothing but a Pharisee. (We still love each other) So I got out every book I could find about the effect of living a Jewish lifestyle, even on those who didn't know Christ. Spent a day in Powell's book store, even.

I can find nothing negative about the effects of that lifestyle, and many many positive effects. When they don't know Christ, we know what that does, but I was looking only for negative effects of their lifestyle. Yet, if I mention it on cc up comes "Judaism" (dirty word), new covenant, lots of things and I haven't been able to understand. I am hoping this thread will make it clear. Why can't we worship in this way, does not using it for salvation to replace Christ make it wrong?

I think this a great idea, nothing negative for sure. I'm not entirely sure about the mezuzah, the Karaites don't think highly of it, but Karaites are real Jews, they're not important like "Christian" fake Jews, right?

Karaite Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, on the topic of the Ten Commandments, I think Rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur gave excellent instructions in their halachic commentary Torat Hamelech. It's especially good reading for those still under the Law. It's not available in English, so check the foreign language area at Powell's. It's a good reason to learn to read Hebrew!

The King's Torah: a rabbinic text or a call to terror? - Israel News | Haaretz

The prohibition 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' applies only "to a Jew who kills a Jew," write Rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur of the West Bank settlement of Yitzhar. Non-Jews are "uncompassionate by nature" and attacks on them "curb their evil inclination," while babies and children of Israel's enemies may be killed since "it is clear that they will grow to harm us."

BBC News - King's Torah splits Israel's religious and secular Jews

Rabbis Dov Lior and Yacob Yousef had endorsed a highly controversial book, the King's Torah - written by two lesser-known settler rabbis. It attempts to justify killing non-Jews, including those not involved in violence, under certain circumstances.

The fifth chapter, entitled "Murder of non-Jews in a time of war" has been widely quoted in the Israeli media. The summary states that "you can kill those who are not supporting or encouraging murder in order to save the lives of Jews".

At one point it suggests that babies can justifiably be killed if it is clear they will grow up to pose a threat.

 

[thecreationtutor]

where did the stop eating pork come from?

 

[4enlightment]

where did the stop eating pork come from?

Leviticus 11:7And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.

Deuteronomy 14:8The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.

Eating pork isn't going to separate you from God. God had made that dietary law for the swine isn't good for our bodies (And which the main focus was to perfected the flesh), but now God had said not to worry about the flesh, because it is going into the ground, but worry more about what you put in the soul.

 

[RedTent]

Leviticus 11:7And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.

Deuteronomy 14:8The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.

Eating pork isn't going to separate you from God. God had made that dietary law for the swine isn't good for our bodies (And which the main focus was to perfected the flesh), but now God had said not to worry about the flesh, because it is going into the ground, but worry more about what you put in the soul.

God told us to not eat scavenger animals, and God told us to be clean and holy in thought, word and deed. We were to be reminded of that as we chose the food we ate. When we received the Holy Spirit, it helped us understand, and God elaborated on His instructions to say that you could eat pork and shrimp, all those foods, and be clean in thought word and mind, that was most important. That was to be our concern.

This post illustrates my point perfectly of wanting us to consider using rituals to remind us of what is important.

What is happening in our churches is that we are not always remembering about the basic instructions. When we go on and on about doing nothing to help us, it is resulting in doing nothing about being spiritually clean. The people who relate their actions to the spiritual keep God uppermost in their minds, when we live with nothing in our lives relating to God, often times we live day to day without God involvement in our spirit. Not necessary to do this, but letting God lead even in that is helpful.

 

[Ariel82]

Knowing God is not about know certain rituals, its about loving all the people around you and Jesus shows us what that means in His sermons.

why don't we talk more about that in the forums? mmm

 

[Drett]

Does God expect the Jews to stop Jewish rites. If you mean following the law then no.

Matt 23:1-12: “Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, v.2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. "Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. "For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. "But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. "They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, "greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, 'Rabbi, Rabbi.' "But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. "And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. "And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

Jesus actually told is followers and disciples, just before he ascended, to learn the law from the teachers of law. No one knew him better, to this very day, than those people he addressed on that day.

 

[RedTent]

Does God expect the Jews to stop Jewish rites. If you mean following the law then no.

Matt 23:1-12: “Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, v.2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. "Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. "For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. "But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. "They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, "greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, 'Rabbi, Rabbi.' "But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. "And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. "And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

Jesus actually told is followers and disciples, just before he ascended, to learn the law from the teachers of law. No one knew him better, to this very day, than those people he addressed on that day.

Brett, this is exactly what I see happening! Except it is happening without even phylacteries and borders on the garments. We aren't even pretending! We say if it is in our hearts it is fine we don't have to do a thing. We don't even believe in learning the law, we say the law is in our hearts. We are the lukewarm church. Anyone who mentions any doing or any law is scolded saying scripture tells them not to do, and law won't save.

 

[Praus]

Brett, this is exactly what I see happening! Except it is happening without even phylacteries and borders on the garments. We aren't even pretending! We say if it is in our hearts it is fine we don't have to do a thing. We don't even believe in learning the law, we say the law is in our hearts. We are the lukewarm church. Anyone who mentions any doing or any law is scolded saying scripture tells them not to do, and law won't save.

Follow the law then, you'll be red hot.

Leviticus 20:9 For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Avoid people who maintain a form of godliness, but deny its power. For from these are those who slip into houses and captivate foolish women who are loaded down with sins and led by various kinds of desires; who are always learning, but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

[homwardbound]

When people dress in Christian clothes, but don't know Christ or what it's like to be taught and led by the holy spirit, they need something that has an appearance of godliness to give order to their lives and 'guide' them.

This is in all religions, cults and sects correct?

 

[homwardbound]

If the apostles continue with Jewish customs, can we really say that it was wrong? Jesus had said that the scribes and Pharisees sat in Moses seat, and to do what they commanded.

Also consider this from Acts 21
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. [SUP]20 [/SUP]When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. [SUP]21 [/SUP]They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.

(NIV)

AND not WHAT THEY DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!They told truth, and yet did not do it themselves, how many of us are doing the same?

 

[homwardbound]

Hebrews 6:1Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

Matthew 4:10Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.



Matthew 6:21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matt 19 21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

If God permits, you left that part out of scripture in Hebrews 6. So I think to move onto perfection in maturity, we need ask God to permit this to us each and grow in God's grace yes?

 

[homwardbound]

There is a difference between kosher and clean meats.

kosher:

Food that conforms to strict Jewish biblical laws pertaining not only to the type of food that may be eaten, but to the kinds of food that can be combined at one meal. For example, meat and dairy products may not be mixed. In order to meet kosher standards and receive the kosher seal, food must be prepared under a rabbi's supervision. In addition to the kinds of animals considered kosher (pigs and rabbits are among the nonkosher group), the laws also decree that animals be fed organically grown food and killed in the most humane manner possible. The word "kosher" is a derivation of the Herbrew word kasher, meaning "proper" or "pure."

from: Kosher - Kitchen Dictionary - Food.com

These requirements are not found in the Bible.

clean:

Some animal are inherently clean, some are not. We find the determination in Lev 11 and Deut 14.

Paul taught a clean diet...

1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Again, this refers to Lev 11 and Deut 14.

Circumcision is still in force today. It has changed in the way it is to be practiced, but it still must be done...

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

And the determination of James (the head of the N.T. church), under the direction of the Holy Spirit was that they need not be circumcised in the flesh.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Paul agreed completely with this. One must be circumcised of the heart, not the flesh.

And God gave Peter three dreams in showing Peter unclean animals to him in these and said Peter "kill and eat". Was this not for the Gospel to come to the Gentile by Faith (belief) in God through the resurrected Christ?
And by this belief we are circumcised by Christ in the heart, getting the heart transplant from God the Father a free gift to us by Faith?

 

[homwardbound]

These six primary doctrines are the foundation one should lay. We should not have to go back and redo this time and time again, these are the elementary (basic) teachings Christianity is founded on.



Christ gave us that teaching in Mat 5, 6 and 7 as well as throughout the gospels.





Why not quote all of it?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Now if you want to relate this back to Heb 6, the keeping of the Commanments is the basic teaching, and Christ was offering a discipleship to this young man if he could let go of the gods (his wealth and possessions) that were coming between him and God.

No matter what way it is sliced, diced and or cubed, there is a before the cross and an after the cross.
Before: under the Law under a curse because of weak flesh and blood can't be perfect.
After: we are freed from the stress that is created from trying to obey the law of Moses, if one finally sees that there is no way to ever be perfect from trying to obey, this includes the greatest two Laws of Love. Flesh is weak, Spirit willing.
It is when I give up me to God in I can't, that is when God takes over in your stead in the born again life in God through Christ he has done it for you, if you believe this:
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[homwardbound]

One poster brought up the wall between Jew and gentile. The wall between knowing Christ and not accepting that Christ lived with us as a man is a huge wall that can only be bridged by judging only the blindness and not the man. But the gentile has made the wall higher than that, I am seeing a need to tear it down. As I listen for the Lord in my prayer times, I seem to hear it. In my bible study times, it is pointed out to me.

When people dress up in Christian clothes and pretend to be Christian it does not make him Christian, any more than doing the acts God suggested to us makes them Christian. We all know that and Christ pointed it out to us, too. But we have decided that we should not, as Christians, put on any Christian clothes. I don't think that decision is profitable for us. We can be Christian without the clothes, scripture is definite about that. But to refuse the clothes because it would make us appear Christian seems juvenile and silly to me.

We have been made blind to these ideas for over 2,000 years. I very recently saw my Christian walk this way, and I did because I met others who told me of this. I checked with the word and saw it could be right. But for those opposed to this idea, the Lord would have to guide you. Most Jews cannot see that the Messiah has come, and most Christians have a blindness to the idea of making their worship visible to all.

For years after the day of provocation, carried in the desert for forty years they still refused to believe and so they did not enterr his rest.
So to this day, people by their own works have put on their own clothes in order to be righteous and or remain righteous, whether it be go to Church on Sunday or Saturday, Whether it be trying to obey laws or not.
God clothed us as God did to Adam and Eve, the very first sacrifice for us to live. Yet we as people tend to put on our own beliefs, backed up by the word as in being righteous when in all truth we are by Christ's death already made righteous and only here is it done, finished if one will hang onto God in this finished work of Christ, and therefore by God have been and to be Holy and thus born again of the Spirit of God, not flesh. Flesh yes still alive, yet dead to the self, and alive to God controlled by God in God's Spirit working through you the believer. Flesh is alive by the power of the Holy Spirit of God in the resurrected Christ
[h=3]Colossians 1:22[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

 

[homwardbound]

where did the stop eating pork come from?

[h=3]Acts 10:9-16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: [SUP]10 [/SUP]and he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, [SUP]11 [/SUP]and saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: [SUP]12 [/SUP]wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

And I know that:
Romans 14:14
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

 

[homwardbound]

God told us to not eat scavenger animals, and God told us to be clean and holy in thought, word and deed. We were to be reminded of that as we chose the food we ate. When we received the Holy Spirit, it helped us understand, and God elaborated on His instructions to say that you could eat pork and shrimp, all those foods, and be clean in thought word and mind, that was most important. That was to be our concern.

This post illustrates my point perfectly of wanting us to consider using rituals to remind us of what is important.

What is happening in our churches is that we are not always remembering about the basic instructions. When we go on and on about doing nothing to help us, it is resulting in doing nothing about being spiritually clean. The people who relate their actions to the spiritual keep God uppermost in their minds, when we live with nothing in our lives relating to God, often times we live day to day without God involvement in our spirit. Not necessary to do this, but letting God lead even in that is helpful.

I like in keeping God in the forefront of and in all things, for it is God that is our teacher to teach us, if we will believe and seek to be taught by God, not man
Hebrews 8:11 and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest

 

[homwardbound]

Does God expect the Jews to stop Jewish rites. If you mean following the law then no.

Matt 23:1-12: “Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, v.2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. "Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. "For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. "But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. "They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, "greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, 'Rabbi, Rabbi.' "But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. "And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. "And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

Jesus actually told is followers and disciples, just before he ascended, to learn the law from the teachers of law. No one knew him better, to this very day, than those people he addressed on that day.

it is the Law that shows us our need for a savior for no one can by the Law be perfect and give up everything on this earth, re-read the rich man that walked away sad, not being able to give up his earthly riches, let alone many other things Christ said to do as cut off one's hand and or gouge out one's eye, better for part of us to enter heaven maimed than all of us to go to hell.
So no other way to be perfect except through Christ's death and resurrection of God
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This is in all religions, cults and sects correct?

Well I was specifically referring to pretend Christians, but yes you are correct.

 

[homwardbound]

\

Brett, this is exactly what I see happening! Except it is happening without even phylacteries and borders on the garments. We aren't even pretending! We say if it is in our hearts it is fine we don't have to do a thing. We don't even believe in learning the law, we say the law is in our hearts. We are the lukewarm church. Anyone who mentions any doing or any law is scolded saying scripture tells them not to do, and law won't save.

Sister, God is Love and this is what is placed on our hearts, a heart transplant from God to us born of the flesh, reborn by God from God through Son Christ. And the love of God is spread abroad through us that believe and Love as God loves all.
There is no condemnation from me to you, whether you believe or do not. that is between God and you, when the rubber hits the road period. And I believe you believe. Therefore:
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I think you see the difference and this is what I see others are saying as if you put flesh effort works before the finished work of Christ on the cross. Now truthfully only you know and God know the truth here, and I love you no matter what
Thanks, God has taught me much through you, All Glory to God forever and ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!