Are catholics Christian?

[onlinebuddy]

You are absolutely right. We cannot replace God, and we understand that. They, the Isrealites, obviously didn't understand that and looked to replace Him, which is why He was upset. They weren't looking for something to represent God. They built themselves a god.
Ok, let's look at it from your perspective. They built this calf, you say, to represent God. So they, not knowing who God really is, decided to build this golden calf and call it God. Right? So this became "God". They turned the real God into this golden calf. "They have made themselves a molded calf, and worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, ‘This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!’”
They worshipped IT and sacrificed to IT and said THIS IS YOUR GOD! We Catholics DON'T worship the concrete statues or sacrifice to them, and we don't call them our God. No matter which way you interpret this bit of Scripture, it does not fit your accusations against the Catholic Church on idol worship. Had that golden calf fallen and broken, the Isrealites would've thought it was the end of the world. When our statues or images or whatever fall and break, we throw them away and buy another one. Can you not see my point?

Let me relate from my childhood days. I was born in a Catholic family. I was baptized as an infant, received First Holy Communion at the age of 7, and was "confirmed" in the Catholic Church at the age of 14.

When I was 7, my grandma once pointed out to the image of the Virgin Mary at the altar of our home and said, "Mother Mary is watching." I got into a friendly argument with her and asked, "Does Mother Mary reside in that statue? Off course not. It's just a statue!" She retorted, "Don't say that! You know nothing! Her presence is in that statue, and she is watching." Even as a 7 year old kid, my young mind knew that something was amiss. I knew that this was not what the Catholic Church taught. However, many are under such misconceptions that arise from the use of Idols. When I studied the Bible I read that God forbade even the making of an idol or image. Thinking back about my grandma's misapprehension, I fully understand why God did the forbidding.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

lolol...

 

[resurrection33]

There are many versions of catholics now, like couples for Christ, singles for Christ, but are they really Christians of the bible?

Yes, they are as Christian as we Protestants are.

 

[7seven7]

are you not reading my posts, I did say that it applies to all idolatries including muslims, hindu's, budhist. and many more, in this thread however "catholics" are discussed.

you cannot see the similarity...

you did said and I quote

"Had that golden calf fallen and broken, the Isrealites would've thought it was the end of the world. When our statues or images or whatever fall and break, we throw them away and buy another one. Can you not see my point"

you have differentiate catholics and what the Israelites did by comparing when your images break, you throw them away and buy another... while to the Israelites it was the end of the world..

what I did is show you that after the first calf was ground and burn by Moses, the Israelite made them again.... Like what catholics as you say the catholics do when their statue break or fall.

We are only talking about idolatries... don't get me starting with witchcraft and soothsaying...

you said catholics do not worship the statue but what it represents

Who represent the lady in the pictures? Mary, (was mary black or white) even if it represent mary, by your logic catholics worship Mary?

your laughter is evident the your argument is starting to crumble and also by diverting the topic at hand...

we can agree to disagree and there is no harm in trying to pursue for the truth...

Mate, don't start getting narkie, this is just a discussion. Don't get upset. If our statues break, we don't HAVE to buy another one. We don't NEED a statue to worship Christ or adore Mary!
Now ok, when I said worship in regards to what statues represent, I was talking about Christ. We don't worship Mary. We adore her. Many Catholics don't have statues or pictures. Many of them do. If it was vital for a Catholic to worship statues, then EVERY Catholic would have them. If you think its wrong to have images and statues, then get rid of all photos in your house and don't look at statues like the statue of liberty or of presidents or whatever. Get rid of any flags you have. Don't be proud of being from whatever country it is that you are from. If you are taking it so literally, don't even carry a cross. lol (oops) You don't understand the half of what Catholics believe. All you people are doing is listening to your preachers who preach hate for Catholics and the Catholic Church. Just like the Muslims and Athiests and Satanists. Funny that. Brother, first of all, my argument is not crumbling. We are discussing a verse in the Bible that I understand to be the way I explained. And rightly so. You are looking at it from a totally anti-Catholic point of view because that seems to have been drilled into your head. I will agree to disagree. Peace.

 

[7seven7]

Amazing! in all the arguments that happen in this environment. One thing is clear..... we can find scripture for anything we prefer to believe. SMH

AMEN!!!!!!! AND THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! We need to all understand that nobody, including the Catholic church, has worked EVERYTHING out! Our God is INFINITE!!!! How can we, so FINITE, understand His infinity? All this discussing and arguing is really pointless, until we get to Heaven and understand Him completely. The Bible CAN and WILL be interpreted so many ways. And unfortunately, a lot of the time causes arguments against eachother.

 

[BernardW]

Amazing! in all the arguments that happen in this environment. One thing is clear..... we can find scripture for anything we prefer to believe. SMH

Another AMEN to that! Only 32% of the world's population is Christian (that's all the Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox combined). It’s amazing some people would rather spend time throwing people out instead of bringing more in.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Ask yourself, would you rather live next door to a Christian/Catholic not of your church or a Muslim that wants to saw your head off for telling the truth?

That's an easy answer for me. I'll take the Catholic! LOL.

 

[7seven7]

Another AMEN to that! Only 32% of the world's population is Christian (that's all the Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox combined). It’s amazing some people would rather spend time throwing people out instead of bringing more in.

Ask yourself, would you rather live next door to a Christian/Catholic not of your church or a Muslim that wants to saw your head off for telling the truth?

That's an easy answer for me. I'll take the Catholic! LOL.

Hahahaha well put

 

[onlinebuddy]

Mate, don't start getting narkie, this is just a discussion. Don't get upset. If our statues break, we don't HAVE to buy another one. We don't NEED a statue to worship Christ or adore Mary!
Now ok, when I said worship in regards to what statues represent, I was talking about Christ. We don't worship Mary. We adore her. Many Catholics don't have statues or pictures. Many of them do. If it was vital for a Catholic to worship statues, then EVERY Catholic would have them. If you think its wrong to have images and statues, then get rid of all photos in your house and don't look at statues like the statue of liberty or of presidents or whatever. Get rid of any flags you have. Don't be proud of being from whatever country it is that you are from. If you are taking it so literally, don't even carry a cross. lol (oops) You don't understand the half of what Catholics believe. All you people are doing is listening to your preachers who preach hate for Catholics and the Catholic Church. Just like the Muslims and Athiests and Satanists. Funny that. Brother, first of all, my argument is not crumbling. We are discussing a verse in the Bible that I understand to be the way I explained. And rightly so. You are looking at it from a totally anti-Catholic point of view because that seems to have been drilled into your head. I will agree to disagree. Peace.

Hi brother seven,
As I have written in my posts above, I come from a Catholic background. For about 19 years I PRAYED to Mary (as I was taught to do so). When we say the "Hail Mary" we are actually addressing Mary in prayer. We are also asking Mary to pray for us and "intercede"(mediate) for us.

September 8th is celebrated as the birthday of Mary all over India. I live in a Catholic locality and I have many Catholic friends, family and associates. Around my locality people are already preparing for the "feast of Our Lady." Daily "novenas" have already started and will be continued till September 8th. People have begun to gather in the streets around images of Mary to recite the novenas daily. Candles are lit and garlands are placed around images.

On September 8th, a local suburb in my city celebrates the birthday of Mary. One particular shrine named after Mary attracts millions of people from all over India. On the 8th, there will he "High Mass" followed by a huge fair around the church. The fair is so massive that all vehicular traffic comes to a standstill due to the large crowds. The local administration has re-route traffic and deploy special traffic police. Devotees visiting the shrine purchase wax idols and candles from street vendors. They stand in serpentine queues (outside the church) for hours in order to pass before the image of Mary and "offer" these candles and wax idols along with their prayers and "petitions." Once they enter the church, they place these candles, etc, in a huge box at the altar of the church near the statue of Mary. They kiss the statue from afar and bow and kneel and pray before the statue.

How do I know all this? As a kid, I said the novenas and stood in those queues and lit candles and did all these things. If I was to write of all the traditions that I have seen and have been a part of, it would take hours. If anyone needs any links to verify the above, please let me know.

Now, dear brothers, judge for yourselves if all the above amounts to idolatry or not.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

There is no reason to go to Mary or any other saint in heaven with our requests. Catholic apologists attempt to avoid the sting of this argument by making a distinction between Christ as the sole mediator and all believers as intercessors. This does not help their cause (of proving we should pray to saints), because all the passages they employ are about direct intercession in prayer to God, not to other creatures. No biblical passage states or implies that we should pray to the saints.

Catholic rationalization for praying to the saints is also based on the seemingly plausible argument that because of their position in heaven, they may be better able to intercede. This, though, rejects the ministry of the Spirit, whose task it is to do this on our behalf. Who is better able to intercede for us than another person of the Trinity?

"We do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groaning which cannot be uttered" (Rom. 8:26).

Through Him [Christ] we... have access by one Spirit to the Father" (Eph. 2:18) Since beyond our explicit prayers to God, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us perfectly "in accordance with God's will" (Rom. 8:27), there is no need to call on anyone else in heaven to do so.

"For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need." Hebrews 4:15-16.

Etc...

Hi brother seven,
As I have written in my posts above, I come from a Catholic background. For about 19 years I PRAYED to Mary (as I was taught to do so). When we say the "Hail Mary" we are actually addressing Mary in prayer. We are also asking Mary to pray for us and "intercede"(mediate) for us.

September 8th is celebrated as the birthday of Mary all over India. I live in a Catholic locality and I have many Catholic friends, family and associates. Around my locality people are already preparing for the "feast of Our Lady." Daily "novenas" have already started and will be continued till September 8th. People have begun to gather in the streets around images of Mary to recite the novenas daily. Candles are lit and garlands are placed around images.

On September 8th, a local suburb in my city celebrates the birthday of Mary. One particular shrine named after Mary attracts millions of people from all over India. On the 8th, there will he "High Mass" followed by a huge fair around the church. The fair is so massive that all vehicular traffic comes to a standstill due to the large crowds. The local administration has re-route traffic and deploy special traffic police. Devotees visiting the shrine purchase wax idols and candles from street vendors. They stand in serpentine queues (outside the church) for hours in order to pass before the image of Mary and "offer" these candles and wax idols along with their prayers and "petitions." Once they enter the church, they place these candles, etc, in a huge box at the altar of the church near the statue of Mary. They kiss the statue from afar and bow and kneel and pray before the statue.

How do I know all this? As a kid, I said the novenas and stood in those queues and lit candles and did all these things. If I was to write of all the traditions that I have seen and have been a part of, it would take hours. If anyone needs any links to verify the above, please let me know.

Now, dear brothers, judge for yourselves if all the above amounts to idolatry or not.

 

[danschance]

who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Romans 8:34

I once came close to becoming a Catholic but I could not get over how people prayed in front of a statue and then directed their prayers to this "Saint". It looked like idolatry to me. It makes no sense at all to pray to a saint to intercede for you when Jesus does this for us.

 

[7seven7]

Hi brother seven,
As I have written in my posts above, I come from a Catholic background. For about 19 years I PRAYED to Mary (as I was taught to do so). When we say the "Hail Mary" we are actually addressing Mary in prayer. We are also asking Mary to pray for us and "intercede"(mediate) for us.

September 8th is celebrated as the birthday of Mary all over India. I live in a Catholic locality and I have many Catholic friends, family and associates. Around my locality people are already preparing for the "feast of Our Lady." Daily "novenas" have already started and will be continued till September 8th. People have begun to gather in the streets around images of Mary to recite the novenas daily. Candles are lit and garlands are placed around images.

On September 8th, a local suburb in my city celebrates the birthday of Mary. One particular shrine named after Mary attracts millions of people from all over India. On the 8th, there will he "High Mass" followed by a huge fair around the church. The fair is so massive that all vehicular traffic comes to a standstill due to the large crowds. The local administration has re-route traffic and deploy special traffic police. Devotees visiting the shrine purchase wax idols and candles from street vendors. They stand in serpentine queues (outside the church) for hours in order to pass before the image of Mary and "offer" these candles and wax idols along with their prayers and "petitions." Once they enter the church, they place these candles, etc, in a huge box at the altar of the church near the statue of Mary. They kiss the statue from afar and bow and kneel and pray before the statue.

How do I know all this? As a kid, I said the novenas and stood in those queues and lit candles and did all these things. If I was to write of all the traditions that I have seen and have been a part of, it would take hours. If anyone needs any links to verify the above, please let me know.

Now, dear brothers, judge for yourselves if all the above amounts to idolatry or not.

Hey, brother. I know exactly what you are saying. Sometimes I look at people kissing statues in churches, including statues of Christ not just Mary, and think to myself "I wonder if these people are actually kissing the statue for the statue or to show reverence to Christ or adoration to Mary or the saints." I understand that the Church doesn't teach us to worship Mary or the saints, and sometimes I'm saddened to see a lot of Catholics spending too much time with those other than Christ. Are there Catholics that do the wrong thing? ABSOLUTELY!! And that saddens me. Really does. Not only for their sake, but also for the reason that it leads others to think that whatever they are doing was taught by the Catholic Church. The only way to know what the Church teaches about Mary and her role in Christianity is to look it up in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Its readily available to everybody. Here's just a bit of insight to what the Church teaches about Mary, straight from the Catechism. But I would advise that you read the whole section on Mary:

963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."[SUP]502[/SUP] "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."[SUP]503
[/SUP]
967 By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity. Thus she is a "preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus)[SUP]510[/SUP] of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."[SUP]511
[/SUP]
Brother, you finished your comment asking everyone to judge for themselves if that was idolatry or not. I would probably agree with you that some, if not a lot of idolatry happens among Catholics. But please remember that its not under the authority of the Catholic Church. Read the Catechism and you will know exactly where the Church stands on all this stuff. But don't just take out one sentence from a whole chapter and take it out of context. Leave it in the context that the Church meant for it to be. Muslims take passages from the bible away from a whole chapter and teach others that we Christians contradict ourselves numerous times. And it's done quite easily because the Holy Bible is such a complex book. And those that don't research it for themselves believe them and convert and become suicide bombers haha sorry! bit of overkill there. My point is this, that a lot of Catholics have misunderstood by lack of research or education or even misled by rogue clergy. But the truth in the teachings of the Catholic Church go way deeper than face value. There is a heck of a lot to the research and prayers and history in the Catholic Church that those who hate it never get deep enough to discover. When you're looking to bring an supposed enemy to their knees, often people don't look for the righteous values of that enemy. They are only looking for reasons to attack, blinding themselves of all the righteousness and good that is contained in the enemy. Often leading them to see some good as evil through a biased mind set. I probably won't reply to this thread anymore. Peace, and God bless! Not Mary....God! lol

 

[homwardbound]

God loves those who loves him back...and those who Believe in Him (who dwelleth not in hands) and His Son Jesus and judge the unbelievers.

truth and it is God that knows who are his along with those that believe know this about God, for God reveals this to us individually. Therefore we are to drive to work to enter God's rest and seek to help others without condemnation showing the spirit of God by God through us, in place of our old selves.
Love you, ask God for the delivery as to what you know as truth and all that believe will be edified, by God through you

 

[homwardbound]

I am not saying 7seven7 do not believe in God...
by his logics, catholics worship mary too.

Catholics believe in god, as Muslims, Budhist and Hindu's do...

But do they believed the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who dwelleth not in things made by hands.
Coz if this is their God, then they believe on the true Messiah (Jesus Christ)

But if their god, dwelleth in things made by hands..then we have a different Christ.

And we shall have no other God's before God, As even Christ himself pointed this out, for he did nothing or said nothing without Father saying so. Do you ever admire anyone at all? Are you ever blessed by anyone and tell them so?
Bottom line: whom do you love and why?
For me:
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

When I searched for the depth and breadth od God's love, I was changed in the twinkling of an eye
[h=3]Ephesians 3:17-19[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; [SUP]19 [/SUP]and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Christ is being preached leave them alone or do you despise God and do not think God is able to get us to stand those that God knows that believe God? Why are you concerned over the speck in your brother's eye (Catholic denomination) in this case, when you have a board in your own. Only you can answer that to you, and if you do be quiet if you don't, then let God speak truth in Love of God through you please.
Does God have an infinite amount of tools? Can God use anyone to bring truth home to those that believe
I know you are speaking of the denomination, as it is not of God, yet it preaches Christ, and what did Chrsit say to his disciples about this?


[h=3]Mark 9:37-40[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. [SUP]39 [/SUP]But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. [SUP]40 [/SUP]For he that is not against us is on our part.

 

[homwardbound]

I am catholic, and I am Christian..

And about catholic church with many versions like couples for christ, singles for christ (which is by the way also a part of couples christ, covenanted community of the roman catholic church), etc.. as far as i know they're NOT 'versions' of that church.. it's some sort of an evangelical tool to reach out to people. These are covenanted communities of the catholic church and they do also have ministries like youth ministry, kids ministry, etc.

Also, this thread mainly focuses on IDOLATRY which is for me, "anything or anyone you put first before GOD is idolatry" , may it be the misconception or the twisted ritual of the church, paying homage to someone like mary or any other saints whatever it is of course can be counted idolatry, but idolatry can also be ur passion on doing something like putting up so much effort on job, on a person or even on studying contexts that it blurs us from what TRUTH is really about. It is still a question even now on where all these bible translations came from and yes, I've read many bible translations myself and i'm trying to live it out as honest as possible. And I admit that I fall short so many times.

Religion cannot save us, it's our faith and our belief that Jesus is our Lord and Savior. And I also understand why they have been so many questions and arguments about the catholic church. All i can say is, never put faith to a 'system', or any physical church coz it is still man-made, and everything man-made is prone to errors. We can still dwell in a church, because church means the body of Christ, the people we fellowship and share faith with, not the 'structure'.. coz where there is AUTHENTIC worship in the Body, there His Spirit dwells, the Bridegroom, Jesus.

Like what you had to say, just hoping you to see this truth I am about to state and is in all places of Worship and is not truth the word Church.

Sister the Spirit of God does not dwell in buildings, which is the exact meaning of "Church" a building. where as the true word that was mistranslated from Greek is "Ecclesia" which means " The Called out ones". and if you look in Acts where Stephan was stoned to death, he was stoned to death for saying God does not live in buildings. And Saul was a witness to this before the road to Damascus.
When we go into a gathering Christ in the Spirit of God goes with us, whom lives in us and we fellowship together, in God's type of love, best described in 1 Cor. 13:4-13
Love ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in God's way not man's

 

[homwardbound]

You rebuke me....for discussing Idolatries and catholicism...
how mature....
did I say catholics have no chance????
in one post I did say..they can be christian..If they Repent of worshipping false gods...Believing in the True God of abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who does not dwell in things made by hands and to believe in His Son our Lord Jesus christ...

do not worry about God leading me, coz I know He always is.

You by the way...how about not forgetting the assembly of God...you who do not attend any churches unless invited (what do you called that)
You are the one should be rebuked...

But this is just a discussion...where everyone is right...and everyone is wrong...no one accept they are wrong. so Just live with it and be open minded...and continue to defend what do you think is right, but do not rebuke anyone (this is not a church, and you are not a pastor of this forum)

My apologies to you. I attend the one and only true tabernacle built by God, not man. and God's kingdom is not of this earth.
[h=3]Hebrews 8[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; [SUP]2 [/SUP]a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: [SUP]5 [/SUP]who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

 

[homwardbound]

i believe the ROCK that Jesus spoke of is the revelation of WHO HE IS.This was revealed to Peter by the father and Peter declared to him that he was the son of God .Remember Peter denied Christ three times but after he was filled with the holy ghost on the day of pentecost he became bold and fearless because he had Jesus in spirit form living on the inside of him.The CATHOLIC CHURCH actually changed the practices of the early church and is described as the mother of harlots in revelation.Baptism was only performed in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in peters day but the catholic church changed it to FATHER,SON AND HOLY GHOST.see if you can find anywhere in the bible where ANYONE was baptized using these titles.They also changed baptism from IMMERSION IN WATER to SPRINKLING.The Catholic Church began charging money for novenas, and charging money to get souls out of Purgatory, when there's no such thing as a Purgatory in the Bible. The Roman pope began to sell "indulgences" to rich individuals, offering positions in the church in exchange with properties, gold and land. The Roman church began acquiring properties from the people in exchange for spiritual favors.The Roman church started to weigh the goods that she can get from the people and made salvation an expensive "commodity". They turned religion into a big business and were teaching creeds and dogmas out of man's ideas instead of the pure Bible. They taught that people can only be saved by "works" and "obedience" to the tenets of the Catholic church, rather than by believing by faith in the Word.The wealthier of them found it a happy situation when Pope Leo X allowed them to buy indulgences for sins not yet committed so that they with ease of conscience could plan their awful crimes and then proceed to carry them out, knowing that the pope had already remitted their sins. The Word of God was kept from them, so who was to know the truth!

Either one in claiming to believe in God will use it fro an occasion as an excuse for the flesh or they will appreciate God tremendously for what God has done for them by Christ
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

So no one will escape if we take God's miraculous grace for granted and use it for an occasion to the flesh
[h=3]Hebrews 10:27-29[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]27 [/SUP]but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [SUP]29 [/SUP]of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[homwardbound]

Hey, brother. I know exactly what you are saying. Sometimes I look at people kissing statues in churches, including statues of Christ not just Mary, and think to myself "I wonder if these people are actually kissing the statue for the statue or to show reverence to Christ or adoration to Mary or the saints." I understand that the Church doesn't teach us to worship Mary or the saints, and sometimes I'm saddened to see a lot of Catholics spending too much time with those other than Christ. Are there Catholics that do the wrong thing? ABSOLUTELY!! And that saddens me. Really does. Not only for their sake, but also for the reason that it leads others to think that whatever they are doing was taught by the Catholic Church. The only way to know what the Church teaches about Mary and her role in Christianity is to look it up in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Its readily available to everybody. Here's just a bit of insight to what the Church teaches about Mary, straight from the Catechism. But I would advise that you read the whole section on Mary:

963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."[SUP]502[/SUP] "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."[SUP]503
[/SUP]
967 By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity. Thus she is a "preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus)[SUP]510[/SUP] of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."[SUP]511
[/SUP]
Brother, you finished your comment asking everyone to judge for themselves if that was idolatry or not. I would probably agree with you that some, if not a lot of idolatry happens among Catholics. But please remember that its not under the authority of the Catholic Church. Read the Catechism and you will know exactly where the Church stands on all this stuff. But don't just take out one sentence from a whole chapter and take it out of context. Leave it in the context that the Church meant for it to be. Muslims take passages from the bible away from a whole chapter and teach others that we Christians contradict ourselves numerous times. And it's done quite easily because the Holy Bible is such a complex book. And those that don't research it for themselves believe them and convert and become suicide bombers haha sorry! bit of overkill there. My point is this, that a lot of Catholics have misunderstood by lack of research or education or even misled by rogue clergy. But the truth in the teachings of the Catholic Church go way deeper than face value. There is a heck of a lot to the research and prayers and history in the Catholic Church that those who hate it never get deep enough to discover. When you're looking to bring an supposed enemy to their knees, often people don't look for the righteous values of that enemy. They are only looking for reasons to attack, blinding themselves of all the righteousness and good that is contained in the enemy. Often leading them to see some good as evil through a biased mind set. I probably won't reply to this thread anymore. Peace, and God bless! Not Mary....God! lol

Just want you to know LOVE YOU and I trust God to lead us all into to truth that sets us free in God through Christ fro I know God has accepted you
Peace and Love from Christ and Father.
And am glad for Mary to bear Christ being a Virgin, impregnated by God the Father of us all.

 

[Missachu]

Catholicism was made so that the pagan worshipers of different nations could better learn how to worship and sort of be "tricked" into Christianity. If you think about famous polytheistic religions like Egypt, Greece, Rome, Inca/Aztec, Irish,Norse,ect. then you see the resemblance between them that they have One major God they pray to and then a bunch of minor ones. Well what they did was teach them that God is the one true God, he rules over EVERYTHING and everyone including the saints, but you can pray to the saints because those saints are powerful too. Not as powerful as God, but it's okay to pray to them.

Alot of times they "replaced" minigods with Saints and angels, giving them special prayers to pray. Like Gabriel is prayed to for protection against evil. Mary is prayed to for protection over children, St. Anthony for lost items,St. Gerard for motherhood; to St. Peregine for Cancer victims; and to St.Dyphna for those with mental or nervous disorders, or epilepsy. Plenty of pagan religions do the same thing.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

A Catholic whose opinion I respect on this thread is SantoSubito. At only 20 years of age, he is a good communicator who understands Catholic doctrine at a level that's beyond his years.

I love it when he participates in threads like this one (whether or not I agree with his position).