The Sin Of Sodom

[Praus]

And in regard to your comment Danschance, you are actually a fulfillment of Bible prophecy:
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. - 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (Holy Bible)

You would have us follow Gail Riplinger and spend our hard-earned money on her books, where is the sound doctrine in her teaching?

A REVIEW/REFUTATION OF Gail Riplinger�s New Age Bible Versions



http://avpublications.org/articles/gail-riplinger-who-is-she.pdf

Who is Gail Riplinger? A Warning for God’s Sheep
By Aletheia O’Brien

Gail Riplinger has had two unscriptural divorces, both while a professing Christian (as her testimony indicates), and then she lied to cover them up when they were discovered. Neither of her first two husbands petitioned for the divorces; Gail did. Neither husband had committed marital unfaithfulness.6 In the lectures quoted from above, she withheld the important information of her divorces from her audiences as she likened herself to these law-abiding women and claimed a false right to teach in church pulpits, despite 1 Corinthians 14:34. During the 1990s, as Riplinger visited various churches to teach on the King James Bible, she was an unlawfully divorced woman with two husbands living. Pastors who hold strong scriptural convictions concerning divorce and remarriage were not allowed to know about this before inviting her to speak to their congregations.

Interestingly, 19th-century occult leader Madame Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (H.P.B.), one of the New Age/occult sources most often cited by Riplinger in her argument against Modern English Versions, was herself divorced twice. It is highly likely that Riplinger, who has claimed she read all sorts of New Age material when she was in the New Age movement, studied Blavatsky’s writings. Riplinger’s detailed knowledge of Blavatsky’s books, cited in New Age Bible Versions, seems to further indicate this. Since the moral character of people who hold a position of teaching authority in the body of Christ is of high importance, the matter of Gail Riplinger’s divorces, her covering them and then her lying about them needs to be addressed. The details in this booklet are the result of four years of in-depth research on the part of my husband and myself. We have studied her teachings and found many errors, and we have looked at the person doing the teaching. Because defending truth is of utmost importance, we must go into detail to address this situation. We are addressing “who is Gail Riplinger?” because a person’s message is only as good as the messenger where the church is concerned. God says: “Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.” Let us all take it to heart.

Someone has said, “But Mrs. Riplinger’s divorces happened before she became a Christian, didn’t they? So, they don’t matter.” That would be true if that were the case. But it isn’t. In early 2007, we launched an intensive background investigation on Mrs. Riplinger and discovered the unscriptural nature of her divorces. In early 2008, after hearing that Mrs. Riplinger had told Dr. and Mrs. D.A. Waite that she had never been married to any man other than her current husband, Michael, we mailed copies of her marriage and divorce documents to them. Because she lied about them to the Waites, and to the Church at large, we made her divorce and marriage documents available on the Internet, so that those concerned could see the truth for themselves. Since she is a public teacher (having been invited to speak in many Independent Fundamental Baptist churches, and since her teaching is public record), she is a public figure who has influenced many people who have purchased her books and other materials—and who might have otherwise chosen not to if they had known the truth. Therefore, the public has the right to know about this serious, holistic moral issue. Even if her divorces were within proper scriptural guidelines (which they are not), it still would not give her license to lie about them. If she believes herself without guilt for obtaining the divorces, then why did she keep them secret and lie about them when they were discovered? After verifying her divorce documents for himself, Dr. D.A. Waite confronted Gail privately by phone during the summer of 2009, giving her the chance to explain why she had lied, which she declined. Dr. Waite went public with her denial and the divorce documents at his July 2009 Bible conference. People who trusted her for over a decade became concerned that she had lied about something as serious as divorce. Soon afterward, most likely realizing that the divorces were undeniable, Riplinger formed a story seemingly intended to pacify her following and make her appear innocent in obtaining the divorces. In a letter purported to be from her current pastor (Dewayne Sands of Believer’s Baptist Church), Gail’s daughter, Bryn Riplinger Shutt, was quoted explaining on behalf of her mother:

By now, some might be asking: But why would Mrs. Riplinger want to change or cover the facts? First, there’s the protection of her book sales (since 1993), a large source of income. At the time that the divorces became undeniable fact,19 Mrs. Riplinger’s sixth book, Hazardous Materials, had just left the printing press and was being marketed throughout the King James Bible world.

Second, there is the problem of all those pastors who trusted her, who now know the truth. They believed she was being honest with them about herself, when during the 1990s she gained their trust and they allowed her to teach doctrine to their congregations, from their church pulpits.20 She portrayed herself as someone she was not. Some of these pastors—many of whom adhere to the clear scriptural rules regarding divorce and remarriage in the Scripture—could end up feeling betrayed by Riplinger’s lack of moral forthrightness. They believed they could trust her. If Scripture lays out a set of rules for men who want to be pastors, deacons, elders, and teachers, then anyone (man or woman) who teaches doctrine (of any kind) in the church should also be held to biblical moral standards and seek to lead a life in obedience to God’s word. Those pastors should have obeyed the rule in 1 Corinthians 14:34 concerning women speaking to the church when in assembly. Even if Riplinger wasn’t teaching in those pulpits, the integrity of her life would still be an issue because she has been elevated as a core leader in the King James Bible world. If a man or woman does not have their life in proper order, they are in no capacity to teach any doctrine to the body of Christ. Christians are “living epistles” and the very act of what they do is who they are, and that matters for good or for bad in the body of Christ. The Apostle Paul stated, “But I keep under [discipline] my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway [disqualified] (1 Corinthians 9:27).” This policy should be important to all. God’s moral rules are for everyone. And it is the responsibility of pastors, as shepherds, to see that anyone they allow to occupy their pulpit is within the proper guidelines of Scripture, as well as in proper standing with God’s word in their personal life. It is Riplinger’s responsibility to acknowledge she was wrong.

Lying Early On to the Church About Her Marital Status

In the 1990s, instead of sharing her divorces when talking about those parts of her life, Gail Riplinger was concealing them with lies even then, lying to the people who had put their trust in her, by fabricating a false story about herself. When she lectured to a large group of pastors at the Gospel Light Baptist Church of Walkertown, NC, in the late 1990s,21 she said:

I was a professor at Kent State University. Now, I don’t want you to think I’m a woman’s lib person or anything, cuz I don’t believe—I believe women should be keepers at home. But I wasn’t married …

 

[SarahM777]

Sarah; again, I am not denying that there were other sins and iniquities being done in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah in addition to the very grievous sin of Sodomy.

Just read Romans 1 and see what sins and evil follows after Sodomy becomes rampant in a nation!

But the point of this thread is to clearly show that the one Sin that was very grievous and exceedingly wicked was the sin of Sodomy. Sodomy was the main reason, along with pride that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were overthrown.

And that follows what gain? Denying the creature and not giving glory which is the first part which seems to be left out a lot. That is the start of it all. (But again that minor detail gets left out a lot)

Do you understand where Paul is actually going with Romans chapter 1? See when they put the chapter breaks in there that was a very bad place for it because continues the thought in what is called chapter 2. It should be read and also taught as such

(Starting with verse 28)

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

See that's the way it should be read and taught because where Paul's thoughts are going is about JUDGEMENT. And that is an expansion of the very thing that Jesus said. But so often the start of Chapter 2 is so often left when it's taught.
It doesn't mean that Paul is not stating the consequences of denying the creator.

 

[SarahM777]

Wasn't the entire place destroyed because God could find no righteous there?
Did Abraham and God not reason together over this matter?
The women there were destroyed just as Lot's wife was.
They could not hear God, and this is where their hearts were;
and that is where sexual immorality thrives.
Why is the name Sodom? This is the iniquity that rose up to God.
But you are correct it was not just because of sodomy!

Of course it wasn't but that is what is used as a hammer upon homosexuals as if that IS the only sin or the major sin that Sodom was judged for. Yet the Bible itself does not say it's the major sin or the only sin. Hate to tell Chosen this but fornication is NOT sodomy. Pride is not sodomy and strange flesh does not always mean sodomy (May not mean it at all)
It still comes down to their wickedness was so through and complete and that was just a part of it.
(But it's so much more fun to judge them homosexual unclean defiled scumbags as being the most horrendous sinners that exist,never mind the fact that the same Jesus we call savior died for them too.)

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Of course it wasn't but that is what is used as a hammer upon homosexuals as if that IS the only sin or the major sin that Sodom was judged for. Yet the Bible itself does not say it's the major sin or the only sin. Hate to tell Chosen this but fornication is NOT sodomy. Pride is not sodomy and strange flesh does not always mean sodomy (May not mean it at all)
It still comes down to their wickedness was so through and complete and that was just a part of it.
(But it's so much more fun to judge them homosexual unclean defiled scumbags as being the most horrendous sinners that exist,never mind the fact that the same Jesus we call savior died for them too.)

Let me ask you Sarah, is all sin referred to as an abomination?

Sodomy was the main Sin that Sodom and Gomorrah were judged for.


And yes Jesus died so that all sinners could be saved.


I am sure that there have been a lot of Sodomites who have gotten genuinely saved. And praise God for that.


And when a Sodomite does get truly saved, they will not continue in the wicked sodomite lifestyle, but they will be a new creature.


2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[SarahM777]

Chosen,

Have you read the entire books of Leviticus,Numbers and Deuteronomy? Do you have any idea how many God uses the words and all those who do these things ARE AN ABOMINATION? And going through Deuteronomy this is what the Lord says

Deuteronomy 25 KJV

13 Thou shalt not have in thy bag divers weights, a great and a small. 14 Thou shalt not have in thine house divers measures, a great and a small. 15 But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.16For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the Lord thy God.

Try twisting to make it say something else God said all WHO DO UNRIGHTEOUSLY ARE AN ABOMINATION which includes ALL SIN. You can't make that say something else

 

[SarahM777]

And taking it further what did Paul say in Romans

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

So what does that mean Chosen? Isn't that saying that all are abominations?

 

[SarahM777]

And Chosen,

Guess what it put's us all in the very boat. Without Christ NONE of us are somehow any better then any one else. And with Christ it does not give us any excuse to hammer them at all,and if it wasn't for what Jesus did the end result for you would be the same as it is for them if they do not repent and believe on Him.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Sarah, all Sodomy is fornication.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary defines Fornication as the following:



FORNICA'TION,*noun*[Latin fornicatio.]

1.*The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.
2.*Adultery.*Matthew 5:32.
3.*Incest.*1 Corinthians 5:1.
4.*Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols.2*Chronicles*21:11,*Revelation*19:2.


Fornication is any sexual relations outside the Biblical context of Marriage.



And even if all 50 states were to legalize sodomite (same sex) marriage, it still would not change the fact that all sodomite couples commit fornication everytime they lie with eachother whether "the state recognizes them as a married couple or not." And Why?

Because God and His word, the Holy Bible only affirm a geniune and true biblical marriage as being between one man and one woman.


Now Sarah, like I mentioned to you earlier. I do believe that the term "strange flesh" mentioned in Jude 7 is a reference to a couple of sins in addition to Sodomy. Again, I believe it is a reference to both sodomy and beastiality. And of course the term sodomy can refer to either same sex relations or beastiality. Both of these grievous sins come under sodomy.


Another thing though Sarah, I do also think that the phrase "going after the strange flesh" could also refer to when the men of Sodom were going after the two angels which went into Lot's house. The men of Sodom were seeking to have sexual relations with the angelic beings.

So I think you made a valid point there Sarah when you also considered that as being one of the possibilities. But where I disagree with you is when you implied that that same phrase ("going after strange flesh") could not refer to a sexual act of sodomy.

Because it can and it does.

You have to remember that angels are men. Are they supernatural brings? Yes of course they are. But again, keep in mind that they are also men.

I'll address and answer your other posts later on when I have access to a computer, as right now I am using my phone to write this .

 

[SarahM777]

Sarah, all Sodomy is fornication.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary defines Fornication as the following:



FORNICA'TION,*noun*[Latin fornicatio.]

1.*The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.
2.*Adultery.*Matthew 5:32.
3.*Incest.*1 Corinthians 5:1.
4.*Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols.2*Chronicles*21:11,*Revelation*19:2.


Fornication is any sexual relations outside the Biblical context of Marriage.

The problem is that NOT all fornication IS SODOMY. Nor is all going after strange flesh. It may be part of it BUT IT IS NOT limited to it.

 

[Radius]

He spent half this time tending to the bonfire, or promoting King James Onlyism starting by saying we need a King James Bible, then a few mins later by pointing out the horrendous error that in Lamentations 4:6 All the Perverted bibles have removed the word "Sin".

It then goes on to point out that all homoseuxals, or Sodomites, are an abomination to God, Spent some time showing how the Bible tells us these homoseuxals, or Sodomites are evil and must be destroyed, associating all Sodomites as occult lovers and Pagans.

This is the kind of bigoted evil I was refering to in my other posts, how is this sermon going to embrace homosexuals and promote that Jesus loves them. It is not, it will simply push them away.

Thanks I'm glad I didn't watch it then.

 

[SarahM777]

He spent half this time tending to the bonfire, or promoting King James Onlyism starting by saying we need a King James Bible, then a few mins later by pointing out the horrendous error that in Lamentations 4:6 All the Perverted bibles have removed the word "Sin".

It then goes on to point out that all homoseuxals, or Sodomites, are an abomination to God, Spent some time showing how the Bible tells us these homoseuxals, or Sodomites are evil and must be destroyed, associating all Sodomites as occult lovers and Pagans.

This is the kind of bigoted evil I was refering to in my other posts, how is this sermon going to embrace homosexuals and promote that Jesus loves them. It is not, it will simply push them away.

Never mind the fact of all else the Bible calls abominations,and what else people were suppose to be stoned to death,(Adultery for one) it's just people throwing stones at someone else because it's not what they never mind all the stuff they will never ever tell anyone that they themselves do in secret. And never once mention the teenage gossipers in the back of the church,the guy cheating on his income taxes,the guy messing around with his secretary,but those aren't so bad. (No wonder so many see that and want to call Christians hypocrites)

 

[ChosenbyHim]

And that follows what gain? Denying the creature and not giving glory which is the first part which seems to be left out a lot. That is the start of it all. (But again that minor detail gets left out a lot)

Do you understand where Paul is actually going with Romans chapter 1? See when they put the chapter breaks in there that was a very bad place for it because continues the thought in what is called chapter 2. It should be read and also taught as such

When who puts in the Chapter breaks?

(Starting with verse 28)

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

Sarah, what point are you exactly trying to get at? Are you saying that we as Christians are not to judge?

Well if that is the point you are getting at, well then you are wrong. We as Christians are to judge, but we are to judge righteous judgment. We are not to judge with hypocritical judgment though.

18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
20 The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.
22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. - John 7:18-24 (King James Bible)


7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. - 1 Corinthians 5:7-13 (King James Bible)

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

See that's the way it should be read and taught because where Paul's thoughts are going is about JUDGEMENT. And that is an expansion of the very thing that Jesus said. But so often the start of Chapter 2 is so often left when it's taught.
It doesn't mean that Paul is not stating the consequences of denying the creator.

Okay I see what you are saying there, but I believe that Paul is also writing about lost men here because notice verse 5 in the whole context of Romans 2:


2 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
- Romans 2:1-29 (King James Bible)


I believe that in chapter 2, Paul is mainly addressing the Jews. You see the Jews were judging the Gentiles as lost because of the sins which were listed in Romans 1. But while the Jews were judging the Gentiles because they committed such sins, the Jews, were also committing the same sins. So what Paul is doing here is he is addressing hypocritical judgment.

Now here is the parrallel passage of Scripture that also condemns hypocritical judgment:


7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. - Matthew 7:1-5 (King James Bible)



It could also be said therefore that Romans 2 is aimed at the do gooder, the self righteous person. And then from verses 17-29 in Romans 2, Paul then addresses the condemnation of the Jews for not genuinely keeping God's law.


So again Sarah, Romans 2 is not saying that Christians are not to judge at all. As Christians we are to judge, but we are to judge righteous judgment (John 7:24) and not hypocritical judgment.


The Scriptures tell us that we are to judge righteous judgment.

 

[SarahM777]

When who puts in the Chapter breaks?





Sarah, what point are you exactly trying to get at? Are you saying that we as Christians are not to judge?

Well if that is the point you are getting at, well then you are wrong. We as Christians are to judge, but we are to judge righteous judgment. We are not to judge with hypocritical judgment though.

18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
20 The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.
22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. - John 7:18-24 (King James Bible)


7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. - 1 Corinthians 5:7-13 (King James Bible)






Okay I see what you are saying there, but I believe that Paul is also writing about lost men here because notice verse 5 in the whole context of Romans 2:


2 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
- Romans 2:1-29 (King James Bible)


I believe that in chapter 2, Paul is mainly addressing the Jews. You see the Jews were judging the Gentiles as lost because of the sins which were listed in Romans 1. But while the Jews were judging the Gentiles because they committed such sins, the Jews, were also committing the same sins. So what Paul is doing here is he is addressing hypocritical judgment.

Now here is the parrallel passage of Scripture that also condemns hypocritical judgment:


7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. - Matthew 7:1-5 (King James Bible)



It could also be said therefore that Romans 2 is aimed at the do gooder, the self righteous person. And then from verses 17-29 in Romans 2, Paul then addresses the condemnation of the Jews for not genuinely keeping God's law.


So again Sarah, Romans 2 is not saying that Christians are not to judge at all. As Christians we are to judge, but we are to judge righteous judgment (John 7:24) and not hypocritical judgment.


The Scriptures tell us that we are to judge righteous judgment.

UMM Chosen,

The chapter breaks in all of Paul's letters were added later by the translaters. They are not there in the manuscripts.

And didn't Jesus say this also?

John 8

Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Chosen,

Have you read the entire books of Leviticus,Numbers and Deuteronomy?

Yes Sarah, I have.

Do you have any idea how many God uses the words and all those who do these things ARE AN ABOMINATION?

Well this is what I am aware of Sarah. The phrase "are an abomination" appears in the King James Holy Bible 7 (seven) times. And here are the Scriptural references:

Leviticus 11:13, 11:42

Deuteronomy 18:12, 25:16

Proverbs 6:16, 15:26, 20:23


The phrase "an abomination" appears 34 (thirty four) times in the Scriptures.


And the word "abomination" appears a total of 76 (seventy six) times in the Authorized King James Bible.

And going through Deuteronomy this is what the Lord says

Deuteronomy 25 KJV

13 Thou shalt not have in thy bag divers weights, a great and a small. 14 Thou shalt not have in thine house divers measures, a great and a small. 15 But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.16For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the Lord thy God.

Try twisting to make it say something else God said all WHO DO UNRIGHTEOUSLY ARE AN ABOMINATION which includes ALL SIN. You can't make that say something else

Sarah, we are not to try to make the Scriptures say something else. We as Christians are to take what the Bible says and rightly divide it, comparing Scripture with Scripture.


Now Sarah all sin is not the same.


Now it is true that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. I understand that. And that all are damned if they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation.

But not all sins are the same. Here are some things that should be noted. Here are several reasons why not all sin is the same:


1) Not all sin is called an abomination. Not all sin is equal.

2) Not all sin required the death penalty under the Law.

3) God wiped out entire cities for Sodomy (Genesis 19).

4) Nations were driven out of the Land in Israel because of the sin of Sodomy.



24 And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the Lord cast out before the children of Israel. - 1 Kings 14:24 (King James Bible)


Now of course if you are using a Catholic (Vatican) version like an NIV, NLT, ESV, NASB, etc. Well then they are not going to read the same way. The modern versions will not say sodomites, but they will instead say male shrine prostitutes or male and female shrine prostitutes or male cult prostitutes. And why? Because they are corruptions. They pervert the words of the living God.


So stick with the King James Bible. As it is the inerrant and perfect word of God.



5) God commended those kings in Israel who drove out Sodomites from Israel.


11 And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord, as did David his father.
12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made. - 1 Kings 15:11-12 (King James Bible)


Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD by taking the sodomites out of the land.


Now can you find an example like that for all of the other sins?


6) When unrepentant sinners are being given over to a reprobate mind, the last straw is SODOMY.


(Again read Romans 1).



24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; - Romans 1:24-28 (King James Bible)


Also Sarah, that portion of Scripture you quoted (Deuteronomy 25:13-16) is not saying that all sin is the same. It is not saying that every sin is an abomination. Let's get some more context in Deuteronomy 25:


25 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.
2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.
3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.
4 Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.
5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.
6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.
7 And if the man like not to take his brother's wife, then let his brother's wife go up to the gate unto the elders, and say, My husband's brother refuseth to raise up unto his brother a name in Israel, he will not perform the duty of my husband's brother.
8 Then the elders of his city shall call him, and speak unto him: and if he stand to it, and say, I like not to take her;
9 Then shall his brother's wife come unto him in the presence of the elders, and loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So shall it be done unto that man that will not build up his brother's house.
10 And his name shall be called in Israel, The house of him that hath his shoe loosed.
11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:
12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.
13 Thou shalt not have in thy bag divers weights, a great and a small.
14 Thou shalt not have in thine house divers measures, a great and a small.
15 But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
16For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the Lord thy God.
17 Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt;
18 How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God.
19 Therefore it shall be, when the Lord thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it. - Deuteronomy 25:1-19 (King James Bible)



So from that passage of Scripture Sarah, we see things mentioned about Laws fairness and to rightly govern disputes that arise. We also see things about widowhood and marriage. And when we get to verses 13-16, we see standards of weights and measures.


So the phrase: "For all that do such things," is tied to those who kept different weights and measures. And those that used those different weights to defraud their neighbors in buying or selling or another matter.


The phrase: "and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the Lord thy God."


Is referring to those who are not doing what is right and just. Because God is righteous and Just, and He loves righteousness and hates wickedness and injustice.


Now Sarah, the question I am asking you is this, how are you trying to use that Scripture, to make it say that all sin is the same?


Again; in the Holy Scriptures, how many sins are described as being "very grievous?"


God's wrath was poured out against the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah for their grievous sin of Sodomy.


The original post was about the SIN of Sodom. Not the sins. But the Sin.

 

[SarahM777]

Now Sarah all sin is not the same.


Now it is true that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. I understand that. And that all are damned if they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation.

But not all sins are the same. Here are some things that should be noted. Here are several reasons why not all sin is the same:


1) Not all sin is called an abomination. Not all sin is equal.

2) Not all sin required the death penalty under the Law.

3) God wiped out entire cities for Sodomy (Genesis 19).

4) Nations were driven out of the Land in Israel because of the sin of Sodomy.

You're missing my point,the temporal consequences are not one and the same BUT THE ETERNAL IS. Do not liars,murderers,gossips,fornicators,adulterers all have their place in the lake of fire? Is the eternal consequence one and the same FOR ALL SIN? Or does God have a special place hell for liars? Murderers? Gossips? Or is it the same lake of fire? And if so why so often is the others so passed over as if they are little things?

Didn't God also say causing ones children to pass through the fires an abomination also? They did that too.

And didn't Jesus tell us this also?

John 8

8 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Please note she also was caught in a capitol offense. She under the law was unclean. (Same with the Samaritan at the well)

Isn't the Lords way mercy? Doesn't the Lord desire mercy more then sacrifices? Isn't that what Jesus came for? Isn't that the whole message of the Bible?

Too often the message that comes across is too much like Westboro baptist church,point the finger,condemn them to hell and then some even have the gall to laugh about it. Where in this is the same compassion that Jesus showed? Did not Jesus come to give sight to the blind,make the lame walk,and set THE CAPTIVES FREE? Do you have any idea the kind of bondage their in? Those "unclean" people in the so called grossest of sins are the very same people that He was beat into hamburger,having spikes slammed down on His head,His beard and hair pulled out until He was unrecongnizable,then having what was like railroad spikes pounded into His hands and feet, and died for those very same people,that He loves so very much. Who also said there is NO SIN UNDER HEAVEN AND EARTH THAT CAN NOT BE FORGIVEN BUT ONE. But it's so much easier to point the finger at them,(Because it's not we do,we're really better then that)

 

[ChosenbyHim]

And taking it further what did Paul say in Romans

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

So what does that mean Chosen?

Well Sarah, it is saying simply that all are lost without the Lord Jesus Christ. We all have been tainted with sin. And we all need the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ to cleanse us from sin and from all unrighteousness.

And when a person gets saved. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses that person from all sin (1 John 1:7). And that person's sins are imputed on Jesus Christ, and the Lord Jesus Christ's righteousness is imputed on that person.

Isn't that saying that all are abominations?

When you say all, are you referring to sins?


I don't believe that that Scripture is saying that every kind of sin is an abomination. Since not all sin is the same.


13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.
17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. - James 4:13-17 (Holy Bible)


You see Sarah, even if you know to do good, and yet you do not do it, to you it is sin.


Now let me ask you this Sarah, let's say that you have gotten snared in the sin of gluttony. And the Lord has been dealing with you to cut down the amount of food that you consume in a day. And let's say you know that you need to get your eating habits under control. As you know that it is the right thing to do. But then you simply do not do it. And you continue in the sin of gluttony.


Now obviously you are in sin at this point in your life because you are not getting control of your flesh with regard to your eating habits. Now here is the question Sarah, do you think that your unhealthy eating habits would be considered an abomination?

In other words, do you think gluttony would be considered an abomination?


Now obviously Sarah, this was just to make a point. For the sake of our discussion here. I am sure you may have not had to deal with gluttony in your life, and if you have not, well then good. But again, for the sake of the discussion and to emphasize the point I was trying to make here, I proceeded with the above scenario.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

UMM Chosen,

The chapter breaks in all of Paul's letters were added later by the translaters. They are not there in the manuscripts.

Sarah, I am aware of that. If my information is correct, it was the Geneva Bible that was the very first Bible to insert verse separations into the text. And then when the Authorized King James Holy Bible was translated, it became the standard of how the Biblical text would be numbered and how the verse separations would be set.

By the way Sarah, just want to let you know that the King James Bible is superior to the manuscripts. Why? Well think about it. What does a street preacher preach from? Does he preach from the Greek manuscripts?

Or does he preach from the Holy Bible?

Also do you know Sarah that there are Numerical codes and patters all through the text of the Authorized Version?

Check out these Numerical Codes in the King James Holy Bible. This is an excerpt of Brother Mike Hoggard's book: The King James Code.

The King James Code - By Mike Hoggard


​

The Number Seven

I have decided to save the best for last. You may have, by now, seen some things you have never seen before, but it hasn’t been enough to put you over the edge of belief just yet. What follows in this last chapter is, without a doubt, the most incredible set of codes and patterns that you have ever seen. The number 7 is God’s very own number. If His Word is going to have an association with any number, it would be this one. Please read very carefully, and let the Spirit guide you into all wisdom and knowledge.

The number 7 is associated with God, and with Divine completion and perfection. It has become apparent to most who read the scriptures, that the number 7 is the most significant number in all of the scriptures. It is the number most often mentioned when you ask someone to give them a number out of the Bible. As a person reads the Bible, they often encounter this number and conclude that there must be some very special significance to the use of this number in the passage that they are reading. With that in mind, it stands to reason that there must be some extremely important patterns that are associated with the number 7. As you read through this section, you will understand that the use of the number 7 in the King James Version, is what sets it apart from the other English translations. Here are many of the various patterns associated with the number 7.

The very first version of the written Word of God was a little, two tablet book commonly called The Ten Commandments. They are the basis of the laws that govern this great nation. The devil is increasing his attack on the Ten Commandments because of what they represent. God has placed a very important value on the Ten Commandments, for, we find them located in the 70[SUP]th[/SUP] chapter of the Bible, Exodus 20. The Bible mentions that they were written on "tables of stone." In fact, the Bible mentions 14 (7x2) times that they are written on tables of stone.
As I mentioned earlier, it is very clear that the words, phrases, verses, chapters and books of the scriptures have been arranged in a perfect order. It would be impossible for men to manipulate a group of documents in this manner, especially men who, in many cases, lived thousands of years apart. One pattern that I discovered about the Divine arrangement of the Scriptures was revealed to me as I read Genesis 1:1. This verse details the beginning of the creation of God. Notice it is in the first book of the Bible, the first chapter, the first verse. The first things always belong to God. I remembered that there was another place where there is a similar passage. It is in John 1:1. Notice that it also begins with "In the beginning", that it is in chapter 1, and verse 1, but what about the book. It is not the first book of the New Testament. However, from Genesis to Luke, there are exactly 42 (7x6) books. This makes John the first book of a whole new set!

How do we know which Bible to use? The bible you use must be the true "Word of God." We are told that Jesus is the Word of God in John 1:1. He is also given that title in I John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." It seems odd that most of the modern translations omit verse7, or place a question mark by it in the form of a note that says that this passage does not appear in some Greek texts! The phrase "word of God" is found exactly 49 times (7x7) in the Authorized Version of the Bible!

Jesus and the Bible are forever linked together. They are in reality, the same thing. He is truly the Word of God. The title of "the Word" that is given to Jesus is found exactly 7 times in 5 verses, including being found in I John chapter 5 verse 7! They are listed below.

(John 1:1) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
(John 1:14) "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

(1 John 1:1) "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;"
(1 John 5:7) "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

(Rev 19:13) "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."

These verses are copied exactly as they are found in the Scriptures. I have added emphasis to some of the words, but have not changed them in any other form. The capitalized "w" at the beginning of "Word" was put there by the translators, but was not contained in the Greek manuscripts. Do we yet not believe that the Hand of the Almighty was on these men as they compiled and translated this sacred Book? Does the Bible you read and trust in contain this Divine pattern?

The number 49, being the product of 7x7 is a tremendous number, for it compounds the idea of completion that we find in the number 7. This very equation is found right in the text of the scriptures themselves.

(Lev 25:8) "And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years."

Since this number was so important to God, it is very reasonable to assume that His Word and His Son should be associated with this number. It reveals to us in these last days, exactly who His Son is, and now reveals to us which Bible is His truly inspired Word.
The Bible itself states that the Word of God is a book of parables. The word "parable" is found 49 times. The word "parable" is found 7 times in the book of Numbers. All of them are found in chapters 23 and 24, and all of them are spoken by Balaam, the first time being found in verse 7 because, (Num 23:5-7) "…the LORD put a word in Balaam's mouth, and said, Return unto Balak, and thus thou shalt speak. {6} And he returned unto him, and, lo, he stood by his burnt sacrifice, he, and all the princes of Moab. {7} And he took up his parable, and said, Balak the king of Moab hath brought me from Aram, out of the mountains of the east, saying, Come, curse me Jacob, and come, defy Israel." In Psalm 78, we are told that God speaks his Word by means of the parable, (Psa 78:1-2) "Maschil of Asaph. Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. {2} I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:". And we are also told that all the words of Jesus are in parable form, (Mat 13:34) "All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:".

It was Paul who warned us about a false gospel.

(Gal 1:8-9) "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. {9} As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Notice that this warning was so strong that he mentions it twice to get the point across. There is a difference between the real Word of God, and the false gospel. Paul and Peter made sure that we understood this, because they spoke of The gospel of God. This phrase is found exactly 7 times in the scriptures. The 7[SUP]th[/SUP] time it is used is an indication of what will happen to those who do not obey the real gospel.
(1 Pet 4:17) "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

As we have seen before, the Holy Spirit is represented elsewhere in the scriptures as being the "breath" of God. God tells us in Ezekiel 37:14 that He will "put my breath in you, and ye shall live." In Genesis, God did this with Adam. (Gen 2:7) "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." This is the first place we find the word "breath". Notice that it is in verse 7. The word "breath" is found 42 times. God took the number for man (6) and multiplied it by the number for God (7).

In the two listings of the lineage of Jesus Christ is the manifestation of 7 displayed. The account given for us in Matthew chapter 1 lists 42 (6x7) generations from Abraham. The account given for us in Luke chapter 3 lists 77 generations from God who created Adam, the first "son of God", to Jesus, the "true Son of God." Jesus’ title of "Son of God" in its various forms is found 49 (7x7) times in the New Testament. It is found only one time in the Old Testament, recorded in the book of Daniel.
(Dan 3:25) "He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."

Check your modern translations for this verse. The NIV records it as "a son of the gods." There can be no mistaking that this points to Antichrist and not the real Christ! The scriptures do attribute a "god" status to fallen angels. The word "gods" is found a total of 244 times in the scriptures. This is a product which has the number for the world (4) as its multiplier (4x61). These false "gods" are truly earthly and not heavenly.

Our Savior is also given the title of "Son of Man". This phrase is found 196 times in the AV. This number breaks down to 49 (7x7) x 4! The last place that this phrase is used is in Revelation 14 verse 14! Check your modern translations for this same pattern. Is this title found exactly this many times in any other translation? I do not believe that it exists outside the King James Version.

In John 12, the doubters ask Jesus a very simple question. (John 12:34) "….who is this Son of man?"

I know who it is. It is Jesus Christ. How do I know for sure? It is all in the numbers. The phrase "Jesus Christ" is found exactly 196 times in the King James. The exact amount of times that the "Son of Man" is found!

- Mike Hoggard (The King James Code)


And there you have it Sarah. What I just shared with you from Mike Hoggard's book are facts which can be quickly verified if you have a Bible Search Software.

I recommend getting the King James Pure Bible Search software:

King James Pure Bible Search


And then you can look up these codes and verify them for yourself.

And didn't Jesus say this also?

John 8

Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Now Sarah, did you notice what The Lord said to the woman after she responded and answered His question?


11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. - John 8:11 (KJV)

She was to go and to no longer continue in her sin of adultery.


Sarah, I take it that you did not even take the time to watch the video sermon which I posted in the original post where Bryan Denlinger preached on the subject of the Sin of Sodom.

Do you know why he preached this sermon? He preached it to warn the sodomites that if they do not repent, then they will go to Hell. Bryan Denlinger preached this sermon because he genuinely cares for the lost people who are ensnared in the horrible sin and lifestyle of Sodomy.

Now here is also what you should know Sarah. Brother Bryan Denlinger came out with a second video sermon on this series which he did on this subject. Here is the second video.


Victory Over The Sin Of Sodomy

[video=youtube;gevGOfLz0TE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gevGOfLz0TE[/video]


It takes true love to warn those who are headed for Hell. You have to call out their sin and simply tell them that they need to repent and get saved.

And we are not to condone sodomy, even if most of the mainline denominations have decided to condone it. And even they ordain Sodomite ministers. It does not matter. Sodomy is wrong. It is vile, it is wicked, and it is an abomination. Therefore we are to preach against it.

 

[Starcrash]

UMM Chosen,

It would be nice if those of you who only look at the one thing and not the whole reason why God destroyed Sodom

Ezekiel 16 KJV

49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

While I agree with what you said here (and it's so nice to see a citation for one's argument), is this at all logical? The whole city was destroyed over pride, wealth, idleness, etc.? Even toddlers, babies, unborn children... all guilty of these sins?

 

[Kerry]

While I agree with what you said here (and it's so nice to see a citation for one's argument), is this at all logical? The whole city was destroyed over pride, wealth, idleness, etc.? Even toddlers, babies, unborn children... all guilty of these sins?

Yes your children are held accountable by your faith. Until they reach the age of accountability. Paul taught this, if you be unequally yoked. meaning your spouse does not believe as long as you stay with your spouse your children are protected. yet if you abandon your spouse and the children stay with the unbeliever they are at risk. Many say that at the rapture thousands of babies are going to be missing, that is not true only the ones that have a parent that is faithful.

 

[SarahM777]

While I agree with what you said here (and it's so nice to see a citation for one's argument), is this at all logical? The whole city was destroyed over pride, wealth, idleness, etc.? Even toddlers, babies, unborn children... all guilty of these sins?

I think the title of the thread was about the of Sodom,and my point was it was NOT just sodomy that the city was destroyed for. It was far wider then just that.