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A
I'm not a theologian, but these are my simple (simplistic) thoughts on the subject: God loves all sinners. He loves me even though I'm a liar, I am prideful, I have been immoral... but I have always been consciously aware of my sin and of the fact that my lifestyle was/is in direct opposition to God's will even though I knew he loved me.
He loves us unconditionally and will continue to do so even when we sin, but his love for us doesn't mean it's ok for us to continue to live immoral lives; and that goes for sexual sin or anything else we do that goes against God's commands.
No use trying to rewrite the Bible to justify our choices.
He loves us unconditionally and will continue to do so even when we sin, but his love for us doesn't mean it's ok for us to continue to live immoral lives; and that goes for sexual sin or anything else we do that goes against God's commands.
No use trying to rewrite the Bible to justify our choices.
I couldn't agree more. The "either you're for us or against us" treatment is incredibly frustrating and polarizing. It's tough to have a reasonable conversation with someone who puts you into a box either way - either you're 100% for them, or you're bigoted, hate them and are afraid of them. There's no common ground.
I think that most of us can sit here and declare sin safe if one is 'careful', right? We, as humans, can justify anything that we want to do, regardless of what God's word says. His word says that sodomy is wrong, not wrong if not being smart and safe, just wrong. Just like fornication is always wrong. Yet, they have put the 'safe sex' spin on fornication, too, haven't they? Is there really such a thing as safe sex when involved in fornication?
Anyway, here's an article: Sodomy
Anyway, here's an article: Sodomy
I dont think it actually calls out sodomy as wrong at all. I think there is interpretation where people may get that. But song of solomon tends to hint that between the lovers in it oral sex is alive and well.
I guess its just whatever for individual people. But the thought of prudish missionary style in a marriage thats supposed to last forever? Yeah...no
I guess its just whatever for individual people. But the thought of prudish missionary style in a marriage thats supposed to last forever? Yeah...no
All I know is that the Bible does speak against sodomy and that science and the medical world has proven that oral and anal sex is unhealthy and damaging. Why would God want that for His children in marriage? I think that this world thinks that sex is all about excitement and 'new' things, but it is truly about intimacy and knowing a person deeply, along with creating life. I have seen nothing in the Bible, including Song of Solomon, that endorses oral or anal sex. This brings to my mind Titus 1:15, which says, "Everything is pure for someone whose heart is pure. But nothing is pure for an unbeliever with a dirty mind. That person's mind and conscience are destroyed." I have read and studied Song of Solomon deeply and have never seen that sort of thing there. Yet, those that want to endorse a certain lifestyle can read God's word through the lens of their appetites and find justification to their whims.
You read God's word purely, you see that He is against sodomy. You read it with whetted appetites, you can justify anything. I once conversed with someone who told me that Jesus came to earth and saw how difficult it was for us to stop sinning and so He understood that we can't stop and basically said, "All right, then. Keep doing what you're doing." I told the person that Jesus came to atone for our sins and to set us free from sin, to give us the ability to choose to live a holy life, a life that is Christ-like, and that our very sins are the reason He died on the Cross. He refused to hear what I said because he had been given over to a reprobate mind.
I have begun to look at things in my life through a lens of purity. Sodomy is unhealthy and is Biblically wrong.
You read God's word purely, you see that He is against sodomy. You read it with whetted appetites, you can justify anything. I once conversed with someone who told me that Jesus came to earth and saw how difficult it was for us to stop sinning and so He understood that we can't stop and basically said, "All right, then. Keep doing what you're doing." I told the person that Jesus came to atone for our sins and to set us free from sin, to give us the ability to choose to live a holy life, a life that is Christ-like, and that our very sins are the reason He died on the Cross. He refused to hear what I said because he had been given over to a reprobate mind.
I have begun to look at things in my life through a lens of purity. Sodomy is unhealthy and is Biblically wrong.
I was thinking about this conversation and I decided last night to step out of it. I wrote a blog today, as I'm sure if any of you have seen my posts in forums at all, you know that I am not one to step down lightly. 
I wrote a blog called "Why it matters so much" and I decided that I would repost it here for you, just so you can see where I'm coming from when I so passionately argue a point. See you all in other conversations!
I am sure some of you may have noticed that I argue things a bit passionately at times. I am going to tell you why it matters so much for me to repeatedly emphasize a point.
One of the verses in the Bible that means a great deal to me is the one that refers to those that cause one of their brothers or sisters to stumble due to their own choices. This means a lot to me because I never want to insist on a sinful and dangerous practice or lifestyle and, in so doing, teach others that are watching my walk that it is okay to compromise, thus sending them into sin and maybe even leading to them being separated eternally from Christ.
I do believe that this verse refers mainly to the intentional causing of stumbling, however, I also believe that if I know something is sinful, or even questionable, and I continue to do it, that I am purposely causing another to stumble, should the follow my example.
When I am arguing and reiterating a point on these forums, it is not because I want to change the mind of the person I am speaking to, in most cases. It is, rather, that I want anyone that wanders in and silently observes to know the truth and to be aware that because some people condone sin in certain ways and levels, one should always look to God's Word for the final and absolute say.
I also emphasize that if there is even a slight question if something is sinful or wrong, even the merest hint that a practice could be unholy, one should abstain from it until they have fully read through the Scriptures and sought God in prayer. It is better to avoid something that appears sinful and to be counted pure than to think that it may be okay and be caught in sinful compromise and deadly habits.
1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 (The Message Translation) says, "Don’t suppress the Spirit, and don’t stifle those who have a word from the Master. On the other hand, don’t be gullible. Check out everything, and keep only what’s good. Throw out anything tainted with evil." This is how I desire to live my life.
1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 (Amplified): Do not quench (suppress or subdue) the [Holy] Spirit; Do not spurn the gifts and utterances of the prophets [do not depreciate prophetic revelations nor despise inspired instruction or exhortation or warning]. But test and prove all things [until you can recognize] what is good; [to that] hold fast. Abstain from evil [shrink from it and keep aloof from it] in whatever form or whatever kind it may be.
Amen.
I wrote a blog called "Why it matters so much" and I decided that I would repost it here for you, just so you can see where I'm coming from when I so passionately argue a point. See you all in other conversations!I am sure some of you may have noticed that I argue things a bit passionately at times. I am going to tell you why it matters so much for me to repeatedly emphasize a point.
One of the verses in the Bible that means a great deal to me is the one that refers to those that cause one of their brothers or sisters to stumble due to their own choices. This means a lot to me because I never want to insist on a sinful and dangerous practice or lifestyle and, in so doing, teach others that are watching my walk that it is okay to compromise, thus sending them into sin and maybe even leading to them being separated eternally from Christ.
I do believe that this verse refers mainly to the intentional causing of stumbling, however, I also believe that if I know something is sinful, or even questionable, and I continue to do it, that I am purposely causing another to stumble, should the follow my example.
When I am arguing and reiterating a point on these forums, it is not because I want to change the mind of the person I am speaking to, in most cases. It is, rather, that I want anyone that wanders in and silently observes to know the truth and to be aware that because some people condone sin in certain ways and levels, one should always look to God's Word for the final and absolute say.
I also emphasize that if there is even a slight question if something is sinful or wrong, even the merest hint that a practice could be unholy, one should abstain from it until they have fully read through the Scriptures and sought God in prayer. It is better to avoid something that appears sinful and to be counted pure than to think that it may be okay and be caught in sinful compromise and deadly habits.
1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 (The Message Translation) says, "Don’t suppress the Spirit, and don’t stifle those who have a word from the Master. On the other hand, don’t be gullible. Check out everything, and keep only what’s good. Throw out anything tainted with evil." This is how I desire to live my life.
1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 (Amplified): Do not quench (suppress or subdue) the [Holy] Spirit; Do not spurn the gifts and utterances of the prophets [do not depreciate prophetic revelations nor despise inspired instruction or exhortation or warning]. But test and prove all things [until you can recognize] what is good; [to that] hold fast. Abstain from evil [shrink from it and keep aloof from it] in whatever form or whatever kind it may be.
Amen.
I can understand that a lot. About the stumbling I let people know my example is not one to be followed. I strongly adhere to the concept of personal conviction though. Just because something is wrong for one person doesnt necessarily mean another would be convicted about it in the same way. So some things i do others may find sinful, but personally they have never affected my christianity.
P
I'm just a little bit saddened and confused by some of the replies I have read.
From what you wrote originally, all this talk of sodomy does not concern your aunt in the least bit. Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT condone or agree with the "practice" of sodomy on any level. But lets be honest, sodomy can take on almost any shape and form these days. From a traditional view, it is seen as violent, taken by force, inflicted on its victim male or female. When I think of sodomy that is what comes to mind. But in todays age, it is seen as more consensual and is practiced by both heterosexual and homosexual couples. Neither of these views of definitions can hide the fact that it eventually and in some case's can cause immediate and embarrassing damage to the human body. But I don't want to get into a debate on this "practice", if that is what everyone wants to call it.
The fact of the matter is that your aunt is a lesbian, and as such is most likely not practicing sodomy. SO the references to sodomy are either written in ignorance or something else that shall remain a mystery. As to topic of judgement on your aunt, it is never our place as brothers and sisters in Christ to judge each other. There is only one True Judge, and we shall all face the seat of his judgement one day and ALL be held accountable for each of our actions, and each idle word spoken. So NO we do not and should not take the seat of judgement. HOWEVER, we are to lift each other up, be there for each other, and spur one another on towards Christ. If we have a disagreement about the lifestyle choices or whatever else of one our brother or sister we are to speak Truth into their lives with grace and humility.
I have an assumption that your aunt will continue to face hardships in her life in relation to the life she is living. But in this life we will all face trouble and hard times. The real question should not be "Why are fellow "Christians" so hateful, and why can't we all just be friends?". I think the real question is "Am I living for Christ with all that I am, no matter what the world says, no matter what my friends think, no matter what my church wants, no matter what I may want, Am I Living For Him?" If your aunt can answer that question with a resounding, "Yes!" then it all the background noise doesn't matter.
I hope this made some sense. It is not a perfect answer or solution. That will never be found in imperfect Christians who have much to learn, and even more to learn how to grab hold of humility and Truth, namely me.
Stay strong in Him.
From what you wrote originally, all this talk of sodomy does not concern your aunt in the least bit. Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT condone or agree with the "practice" of sodomy on any level. But lets be honest, sodomy can take on almost any shape and form these days. From a traditional view, it is seen as violent, taken by force, inflicted on its victim male or female. When I think of sodomy that is what comes to mind. But in todays age, it is seen as more consensual and is practiced by both heterosexual and homosexual couples. Neither of these views of definitions can hide the fact that it eventually and in some case's can cause immediate and embarrassing damage to the human body. But I don't want to get into a debate on this "practice", if that is what everyone wants to call it.
The fact of the matter is that your aunt is a lesbian, and as such is most likely not practicing sodomy. SO the references to sodomy are either written in ignorance or something else that shall remain a mystery. As to topic of judgement on your aunt, it is never our place as brothers and sisters in Christ to judge each other. There is only one True Judge, and we shall all face the seat of his judgement one day and ALL be held accountable for each of our actions, and each idle word spoken. So NO we do not and should not take the seat of judgement. HOWEVER, we are to lift each other up, be there for each other, and spur one another on towards Christ. If we have a disagreement about the lifestyle choices or whatever else of one our brother or sister we are to speak Truth into their lives with grace and humility.
I have an assumption that your aunt will continue to face hardships in her life in relation to the life she is living. But in this life we will all face trouble and hard times. The real question should not be "Why are fellow "Christians" so hateful, and why can't we all just be friends?". I think the real question is "Am I living for Christ with all that I am, no matter what the world says, no matter what my friends think, no matter what my church wants, no matter what I may want, Am I Living For Him?" If your aunt can answer that question with a resounding, "Yes!" then it all the background noise doesn't matter.
I hope this made some sense. It is not a perfect answer or solution. That will never be found in imperfect Christians who have much to learn, and even more to learn how to grab hold of humility and Truth, namely me.
Stay strong in Him.
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T
Homosexuality and other sins are of the old nature, the flesh and blood nature, that can not
get into the kingdom of God. We have to be made a new creation, a direct creation by God.
We are still tempted by those other sins, because we still operate in the old body, but we know
its wrong. Being tempted is not a sin. Jesus accepts, but He also changes the person.
get into the kingdom of God. We have to be made a new creation, a direct creation by God.
We are still tempted by those other sins, because we still operate in the old body, but we know
its wrong. Being tempted is not a sin. Jesus accepts, but He also changes the person.
Proverbs 14:2 Whoever walks in uprightness fears the LORD, but he who is devious in his ways despises him.
Proverbs 14:5 A faithful witness does not lie, but a false witness breathes out lies.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Proverbs 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Proverbs 2:1-5
King James Version (KJV)
2 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.
Romans 12:1
King James Version (KJV)
12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
King James Version (KJV)
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
God bless...
Proverbs 14:5 A faithful witness does not lie, but a false witness breathes out lies.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Proverbs 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Proverbs 2:1-5
King James Version (KJV)
2 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.
Romans 12:1
King James Version (KJV)
12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
King James Version (KJV)
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
God bless...
Y
Jesus came to love. He came to call not the righteous, but the sinners to repentance. And which of us can say, assuredly, that we aren't sinners? "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". How can we judge others when we have failed the Lord in so many respects? Before we condemn others for the "speck" in their eyes, shouldn't we first remove the "speck" in ours?
God's grace is the ONE thing that sustains us each and every day of our lives. And God's grace comes to those who are needy, be they homosexuals, lepers, or the begging orphan at the corner of our streets. And God's grace is unconditional. Instead of focusing on labelling others as sinners, shouldn't we - as Christians - be asking for more of God's grace in our lives? We are all needy and only God's redeeming Grace is sufficient for tomorrow.
Love covers a multitude of sins. Jesus taught that; lived that. And He commanded us to love others better than we love ourselves. Before we throw the next stone, let's consider how we can improve on our own walk with Christ.
God's grace is the ONE thing that sustains us each and every day of our lives. And God's grace comes to those who are needy, be they homosexuals, lepers, or the begging orphan at the corner of our streets. And God's grace is unconditional. Instead of focusing on labelling others as sinners, shouldn't we - as Christians - be asking for more of God's grace in our lives? We are all needy and only God's redeeming Grace is sufficient for tomorrow.
Love covers a multitude of sins. Jesus taught that; lived that. And He commanded us to love others better than we love ourselves. Before we throw the next stone, let's consider how we can improve on our own walk with Christ.