Something that has been bothering me

Joshua_Riley · Sep 12, 2013

2 Corinthians 6:17

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

I have a question about this verse. I talk to people and they seem to think that if a person; for example is gay; that you talk to them, and try to explain to them that they are wrong and why. After you do this you tell them that you cant associate with them because of there ways. I feel in my heart that this cant be so. The bible also tells use to love one and other as we love ourselves and as Jesus loves us. If this is so how can you not want to keep in contact with these people? Yes they are wrong in there way of thinking but hiding in your house and church house isn't shinning your light to the people of the world because if you don't want to associate with people that are sinful you might a well not leave your door step. I have no problem walking in a park with a sinner gay or other wise incorrect, or going to there house as long as they dot practice there ways around me. Ive been told that im wrong for thinking this and i wanted to get more opinions about this and proof as to why i might be wrong. Please help this really bothers me.

notuptome · Sep 12, 2013

The doctrine of separation is tough for many people. It is not an unkind doctrine but it does tell saints of God that they are not to be like the lost or worldly folks. If a born again believer is in a church that does not teach the bible and the gospel they should get out and find a church that does. It teaches that saints do not go out with their friends to the night clubs and drink and party like they did before they were saved. When we get saved we become new creatures in Christ. We receive a new nature that is contrary to our old nature. Being separate is part of the sanctification process.

I essence we become a witness to the lost by living in contrast to them. We do not shun them but we limit our fellowship with them. Amos 3:3 says can two walk together except they be agreed. We are no longer on the wide path that leads to destruction but the narrow way that leads to eternal life. I have heard it explained as in the world but not of the world. John 6:53-66 sinners separated themselves from Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

mystdancer50 · Sep 12, 2013

It can be confusing. We are called to be in the world, but not of the world. Jesus was accused of being with sinners. Why would He dine and visit with sinners? From His very own mouth, Jesus says that it is not the well that need a physician, but the sick. Jesus tells us to go to all the world and preach the gospel.

One must remember that the Bible says that bad morals corrupt good morals. Therefore, one must be very careful about how much time they spend with the unsaved. We cannot reach the lost if we do not show them love, but this doesn't mean that you go with your unsaved friends to bars and clubs and other worldly things. Can you go to a concert with them? It depends on the concert. Can you see a movie with them? It depends on the movie. Does that make sense?

When spending time with the unsaved, you must do so wisely. You must have discretion and be sensitive to Holy Spirit and things that a Christian should not be engaged in. It is truly a hard thing, but if you're walking with Christ in relationship with Him, reading the word and spending time seeking understanding, worshiping Christ and striving to truly know Him and His will, you will be able to make the right choices at the right time, thus being in the world but not of the world.

Spiritfilled1 · Sep 12, 2013

I'm in agreement here. Jesus was the exception in a world of sinners he was the exception. He would not have been able to teach or talk or heal anyone if he was not to have contact with the world. However, he kept a few close to him. And I don't remember Jesus ever instructing anyone that continuing on in sin was acceptable. Be careful on this one. Also, if you are looking for answers and want to make sure that you get the right answer, take it to the Father and it will be revealed to you.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Sep 12, 2013

I think 'come out from among them' means don't indulge in their vices. The world will notice that there's really nothing quite like continuing to love someone even when you disagree with how that someone is living.

I once had two gay friends who were lovers. I never mentioned anything about my faith, but they knew through a common friend. They eventually broke up. I went to see one of them who was living with a friend. I remember seeing a bible on her bed stand. I wish I hadn't lost track of her...

texascowgirl · Sep 12, 2013

Joshua_Riley said:

The is a lot to be said about what you have stated and your feelings are correct as far as I see things. I feel the same way you do. It is wrong to treat people bad due to their particular sin that you don't like. Our own sins are not liked either by the one who matters most....God. God says we do the same things. the word homosexual is not really biblical. But when the bible talks of same gender together its has to be meaning "sexual sin" which there are many kinds of sexual sins otherwise the bible couldn't say we do the same things. Why is because not all men are homosexuals.

oldhermit · Sep 12, 2013

Scripture is always and only normative in its effect. It prescends and identifies the exclusivity of the people of God. God has separated is people from all other people of the world and has differentiated hem from the rest of humanity. As God has said, Come out from among them and be separate. This admonition is a call to holiness. Just as God stands apart from all that is in the world, He declares that all who belong to Him are to maintain this same anomalous relationship with the world. Since God has separated his people as a holy people in contrast to all others, He charges us with conducting out lives in such a way that we can be recognized as unique from all others. As a people called to stand out in the midst of a world in sin, we must be unique in the way we think, speak, and behave. In the Book of Deuteronomy, the Lord instructed Israel in how they should represent the land into which they were being led. They were to distinguish themselves from the inhabitants of the land.

Identity was important to Israel as a nation. Israel had derived their identity from God and that identity could not be compromised by their alliances with the indigenous nations. Their identity was not rooted in who they were but in whom God was. Their identity was grounded in the fact of their own history. Their identity was rooted in the fact that God had elected them of all people from among the other nations. His power brought them out of Egypt with a mighty hand. He provisioned them in the wasteland of Sinai where there was no possibility of them providing for themselves. God was the one who had defeated their enemies, punished their sin, and given them the law. He had made them holy. Their way of life in Canaan was to be lived on a higher plain than those whom the Lord would drive out before them. They were not to assimilate these other cultures. They were not to take their wives or embrace their gods.

The law was given as a control document to establish a conduct of behavior that would identify them as unique from all the other nations. There was no one else like them in the world. The Law told them how they were to represent the land they were to receive. Their identity with the Almighty would be reinforced by the law of reciprocity. Blessings would be God's response to their obedience. As long as Israel maintained this prescended identity, the Lord would continue to bless the land and the people. The way they dealt with sin would be different. The unseen God whom they worshiped would be different. This law instructed them on how to behave privately, and with members within the family unit. It told them how to relate to one’s neighbor as well as to the stranger in their midst. It told them how to behave internationally and within their own social structure. It set their judicial guidelines and established parameters of crime and punishment. It defined their relationship to God and how they should represent the natural world. Guidelines were provided to instruct them on cleanliness and dealing with defilements. Worship was strictly regulated. Specific guidelines were given as to what constituted good and evil. No other nation on the face of the earth had ever received such a law from the mouth of God. They were truly a unique and peculiar people on the earth.

Our relationship to God is certainly no less unique than that of natural Israel. On the contrary, our relationship to God is even more unique, more exclusive, and more privileged. We are defined as a separated people with a particular relationship with the Creator that does not belong to the world. The Word of God grants us a prescended identity that cannot be regulated by the world of men. It defines for us the parameters of how we are to perceive of ourselves while in the world. Like Israel, we do not derive our identity on the grounds of who we are but who God is.

shrimp · Sep 12, 2013

[h=3]This conversation makes me think of the following scripture:

1 Peter 1:13-15[/h]King James Version (KJV)

13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

We as Christians Born Again, A new creature, are called to live like Christ. Jesus didn't destroy the law, He fulfilled it! And He was(and is) Holy. If Jesus is our example, we should try to live up to that example. Not just by loving one another but also by trying to fulfill the law as He did. I'm not saying that by doing so you will be saved from damnation, but we are to be different from the world around us as this is not our home.
We are Citizens of Heaven, let us share our culture!

texascowgirl · Sep 12, 2013

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

texascowgirl · Sep 12, 2013

When one is born again they will be unable to sin at all. There is no need for someone who is unable to sin to try not to sin.

shrimp · Sep 12, 2013

texascowgirl said:

this is untrue. sorry, tex. if this were true Paul would not have had to have written around 2/3 of the new testament. we must strive for the mark. Just because we are under grace doesn't give us warrant to live like hecky-pinecky! If we do that we turn God's grace into a prostitute. Not cool. Paul said " I die daily" He was talking about his fleshly nature, the "old man". we all who are saved still have it and occasionally it rears it's ugly head. It's up to us to recognize that and ask God's forgiveness once again and for help not to do it again.

Angela53510 · Sep 12, 2013

Separation is a thing of the Spirit. We cleanse our hearts and minds, and then reach out to the lost and dying world.

People that teach physical separation from sinners forget that we are all sinners saved by grace. We cannot reach people with the gospel unless we know them. That doesn't mean partake of their sin, but it means we are the light of the world to those people.

“You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. [SUP]16 [/SUP]In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." Matt. 5:14-16

shrimp · Sep 12, 2013

Precisely why we need to be a "peculiar people" to show that we are excited about Jesus and His work and that we gladly do it. In the world but not of it.

Joshua_Riley · Sep 12, 2013

You all have been a great help in this. I thank you tremendously. Al of you have summed up what i have been trying to say. We need to be out in the world and as long as we dont allow them to practice what they do around us there is nothing wrong with being in the world or even going to a movie with them. With out love healing cannot begin. Thank You all so very much. Jesus is our greatest example and we must follow him and the written word of God. I hope others that find this post continue to post there opinions as i will continue to read the mas i value the opinions of my fellow Christians.

Jordache · Sep 12, 2013

Well texascowgirl, then we're all doomed to hell.

2 Corinthians has a context that you cannot get from this one verse. The Corinthians church was very much like today's American church, full of Christians who exercised the gifts of the Holy Spirit and missed the most important parts of Christianity. They were sexually immoral, drunkards, greedy, envious, and a few other things... but from the outside they looked like really great Christians. They had prophesy and tongues. They had all kinds of demonstrations of the power of God, but they lacked character. First thing to take note of here is that even in your sin, God can use and likely will use you. This is not carte blanch to sin.
1. We are to follow Jesus example. He spent lots of time with sinners, but He prepared Himself for the temptations that He would face as He fellowshipped with the Father. Therefore, spending time with "sinners" requires forethought. Also, He didn't go around having lengthy conversations with these sinners. Most of the time He only addressed their sin when they brought it up.
2. Read a few more verses and you will see in context that this passage is referring to being yoked with sinners more than just being their friend. Yoking has a deeper meaning. It involved trying to accomplish an important goal together ie. marriage, business partnerships, financial goals, etc. l
3. This passage refers to Israel and their relationships with other people groups. God directed Israel to move to some of these areas for a purpose, but He always warned them against getting entangled in their idol worship. Israel failed that test time and time again, but there are few outstanding men and women who kept themselves separated from the culture at large. The first that comes to mind is Daniel and the boys. They didn't hide in a cave when Nebuchadnezzer made his orders. They still functioned like normal citizens and had friends that worshipped idols.
4. Again, if you read the verses before you will also notice that Paul mentions agreeing with the sinners. You presence doesnt necessarily mean you agree. In some cases your joining could be an agreement, but this is not always the case.
5. This verse is in the overall context of how to be holy when those around you are not being holy. Paul tells the people to be separate/holy and to touch no unclean thing. He doesn't say avoid all places where unclean things are, or dig a hole underground so you can hide from all those pesky sinners. He simply says don't touch. This alludes to having to be in a situations where those untouchable things are present.

The verse is about holiness and not physically separating yourself. In some cases it may be a physical act, but in most cases it is simply choosing to do the holy thing even when everyone around you is choosing to not be holy.

Joshua_Riley · Sep 12, 2013

I think i understand what your saying. That we have to take everything that God has done as an example. Like sacrificing the things that mean the most to us for the sake of others and to love unconditionally no matter the sin. Scold in a manner befitting a Christian and continue to show the batter paths to those that o not know it. Show them there is a different way, but i ask this do you think that it is wrong to be friends with a sinner? To walk in a park or to go to there house and talk with them and be a friend in the general sense of the word.

Joshua_Riley · Sep 12, 2013

yes this is very much what im trying to say. Does it matter if you go to the movies with a sinner as long as the movie is clean and does not infringe on ones be leaves in God and his word.

nathan3 · Sep 12, 2013

Joshua_Riley said:

II Corinthians 6:17 "Wherefore "Come out from among them, and be ye separated", saith the Lord, "and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. "

From what I have read, it has to do with being in agreement with sin, in whatever form. If your accepting of it, or an enabler , then that can strip blessings away from you quick. Your on your own... You have to make a stand against perversion . It is okay with reaching out to plant a see of truth, and helping some one feel better. But you want to be careful what you allow , in your life and that your not an enabler. .

If your really concerned then read this study >> 2corin6 <<

ChosenbyHim · Sep 12, 2013

Joshua_Riley said:

Hi there Joshua, 2 Corinthians 6:17 is a Bible verse that is rarely ever preached on these days. You see that verse is a proof text for the doctrine of separation. And the worse the apostasy gets in these last days, biblical seperation will be less and less preached on and born again Christians will practice it less and less.

Now to confirm your concerns; you are wrong. As Christians; we have to realize that while we are in this world, we are not of this world. We are not to confirm to the styles, fashions, philosophies and trends of this world.

We are to reach out to the lost with compassion and genuine concern for their souls, desiring for them to be saved (Jude 22-23).

But we are not to develop a regular fellowship with them, because then what happens is that little by little, they will get you to compromise more and more on the truth.

If you regularly hang out with sodomites, then little before you know it, you will begin to take a softer stand against sodomy. If you constantly hang out with liars, you will soon begin to justify lying. If you hang out regularly with thieves, then you will begin to take a softer stand on theft and stealing. That is just the nature of how things work Joshua. Here is another good Scripture to memorize on this issue that you are seeking to address.

1 Corinthians 15:33 KJV
Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

And this Scripture also:

Amos 3:3 KJV
Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

Now 2 Corinthians 6:17 also applies to separation from false religions such as Catholicism, Islam, Jehovah'sWitnesses, Mormons, and Moonies.

As a Christian, we are not to join with the Catholics or the Muslims, or any other false religion. Even if they are doing good deeds like feeding the poor and so forth. Because when you join with them, you are already compromising. And you do not want to compromise on your God and His holy word.

And just because more and more preachers are now neglecting to preach on the Biblical doctrine of Separation, that does not mean that it is not required in the life of a born again Christian. Because it is required.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 KJV
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? [15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? [16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them ; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing ; and I will receive you, [18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Joshua_Riley · Sep 12, 2013

Okay this makes sense. I do try to hold to the Lord Jesus' example as much as I can. So just to make sure I understand a follow. Basicly what i understand this is that it means that you can have and thing that is sanctafied by God or any financial relationship with these people. However you are allowed to be there fiends and talk to these people as long as you prepare for what you will face. Insure you will always make the right choice and if there is any dought in your mind that you wont remove that from your life so that you will not be tempted to sin. And that you must always evaluate the situation and determine if you need to leave or not. This allows us to be in the world but not of the world. So me can give testamonies, preech or just simply choose to what is right and let the precencs of the one true GOd be know to all men, and not hide it for ourselves.

Now i hav another question. I have told my dad that it means exclt what were saying. To be seprate from it but also be kind and be friends with them to shine your light, but adds to it by sayin that the bible says that two cannot walk together lest they agree. Or the bible talks about makeing them ashamed of what they. I do know the bible say that two cannot walk together lest they agree but not sure about the other. And a lot of the time it seems like his is more afraid of being wrong then knowing the truth. What do i do?

Something that has been bothering me

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