Why must it be a Virgin?

[Jilly81]

Okay, I didn't think that I'd be responding to this post, but I think I will .

I think that a lot of people desire a virgin because they simply don't want to be compared to the other men or women that their spouse has been with before repenting (and if repentance isn't there, they shouldn't be considered as a possible romantic interest). This is a legitimate concern, but fortunately nothing's too tough for our Lord to handle . He can make it as though you're the first person your future spouse was with. I'm not sure how He does this, but honestly, can salvation be understood by our human minds either? Getting something we don't deserve and couldn't earn at Someone else's cost; Someone Who had done nothing at all to deserve any of it, yet He still loves us after all we've put Him through.

To explain further, I've heard more than one person say that even though they'd done an obscene amount of fornicating before they got saved, it was like they were a virgin on their wedding night. In fact, the couple I'm thinking of specifically were a pimp and his favorite prostituted girl (sorry if that sounds crude; I'm not sure how else to phrase that, but they got married after meeting Jesus and getting forgiveness and He makes all things new for sure ). Anyway, He can give you peace that the one you are supposed to marry in the Lord will be the right one for you if you ask Him to and trust Him. I do want to add that He knows what testimony would complement our own the best and what He has equipped you to handle emotionally. I also believe that if we're truly following Him, He'd give us the grace to handle knowing that our spouse had been with others if we end up needing that grace. It's kind of like what Corrie ten Boom's dad Casper told her when she was young. You don't need the train ticket until you get on the train, and that's why your daddy won't give it to you until then. Anyway, looking at it the situation through His eyes changed things for me, so I thought I'd share .

And Jesus, thank You for being so incredibly awesome <3 .

 

[iTOREtheSKY]

Guess I'll chime in...lol

Personally I could give a rat's bottom about a woman's past or how many or lack of men she's been with.
I look for 2 things.

Is she sold out to God & seeking Him?
If in a relationship with me will she also bring 100% of herself to the table as I am willing to do?

The fact is we've all sinned & fallen short. The truth is that through the blood of Christ we are made new & the old has passed away.

If that's not enough for the person you are interested in or planning to marry,then I say don't let the door smack you on the buns on the way out!

 

[Tintin]

iTore, I missed all this talk about buns while you were gone.

 

[TheAristocat]

So if God is willing to accept you despite your fornication, why are so many of you unwilling to marry someone that isn't a virgin? If you truly love someone, virginity isn't even an issue. It's simply a great gift to give and a great gift to receive, but no gifts are necessary in true love...

The Bible only disallows marrying a non-virgin in cases of a previous marriage or if you are a Levitical priest. Those who have their virginity taken by someone are to marry that someone. In this way the world is kept pure of sexual immorality. Sexuality immorality breeds lust, perversity, jealousy and hate. And it goes without mentioning that those who have given up their virginity willingly were not the strongest-willed individuals. If they ever marry and there happens to be an extended absence from their partner, then they may sin again. Basically, the safe bet is that virgins are the most reliable, worthy of trust and godly individuals. That's not to say that non-virgins can't be reliable. But I believe it's less likely they are, and it's certainly not apparent. Because not only have they not proven themselves, but they've done the opposite. They are forgiven for their sexual sins, but those sins still have consequences. It also seems unfair to require a virgin to marry a non-virgin when the virgin has practiced patient endurance and kept themself pure all this time. It's like, "Why did I go through all of that just so I could get a potentially unreliable partner who has sexually intimate memories of another woman/man?"

I think that pretty much sums it up. Widows are one exception. I believe they deserve a second chance - and that being with a virgin or a widower - if they had remained faithful. On my part, I'm going to stick with searching for a virgin. I see marrying a sexually fickle individual with a lack of self-control as a last resort - if an option at all.

 

[Kreation]

I saved myself for my husband. But I didn't save myself for religious reasons. I was an atheist when I married and within my first year of marriage me and my husband became saved.

The reason why I saved myself was because in all honesty, the men around me were like boys lol I was certainly not attracted to them. I vowed to myself to sleep with whomever I was going to marry.

Looking back with that attitude, I could certainly have fallen in love with a guy thinking he was husband material, slept with him and then realised he was a jerk. So I was lucky and thankful

I can understand how difficult it is with sex before marriage. If a virgin saved him/herself for their 'soul mate' but the other had a huge sexual history, it would be imbalanced and not equal and the virgin would feel threatened.

There's a whole new meaning of virginity as-well because you do tend to become like your partner when you have a deep relationship especially when sex is involved(as you become one). So when you break it off with that person it is very difficult to let go of the hurt and you take a piece of that identity. So essentially you are not 'virgin' when you head over to your soul-mate, as you are not your complete original identity. ( That's my opinion some people might disagree )

If you are in a christian relationship you are meant to forgive, and forgive you will when God gets involved!!! He will heal both of you and bless the marriage. It is sooooSOOOO important to talk about these things with your spouse before marriage so you can both walk into the marriage with a fresh start. And I have seen beautiful marriages that have blossomed from people who have a past. It's amazing what God can do for you

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

I honestly have never even thought to exclude virgins or non virgins when considering a person to date. I look for several things: Is he hot, and is he a doctor or planning to be one.

 

[thimsrebma]

Many people who have "given up" their virginity may not have been Christians when it happened so they probably did not look at it the same way as they do now. So I don't think that means that you are not as trustworthy as a "virgin." If you didn't think anything was wrong with what you were doing then it was not a problem for you. Now that you are new in Him, you see things differently and don't involve yourself in those activities.

Also if we believe God is healer, deliverer and restorer, we need to act like. Why do we not believe that he can do all of this for past sexual sin? God can take away those memories, he can restore your purity and wholeness. All you must do is be prayerful and ask.

 

[Ugly]

Mostly it seems, people seeking virgins are virgins themselves. And since they have waited, they are wanting to find another who waited as well. On one hand i understand, but overall i tend to disagree with this thinking. I can't help but sense a level of arrogance to the attitude. Kind of like 'I waited, so now i'm owed something'.

 

[ServantStrike]

I'm going to throw a wrench in the works and bring up Matthew 5

[SUP]27 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; [SUP]28 [/SUP]but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. [SUP]29 [/SUP]If your right eye makes you [SUP][w][/SUP]stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you [SUP][x][/SUP]to lose one of the parts of your body, [SUP][y][/SUP]than for your whole body to be thrown into [SUP][z][/SUP]hell. [SUP]30 [/SUP]If your right hand makes you [SUP][aa][/SUP]stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you [SUP][ab][/SUP]to lose one of the parts of your body, [SUP][ac][/SUP]than for your whole body to go into [SUP][ad][/SUP]hell.'


So, since I don't see a lot of people in the church walking around without eyes or hands, I'm going to assume that they've all done this (the women too).

So then, the only unique identifier is that a virgin didn't complete the mechanical act, but the spiritual act has already happened.

Mostly it seems, people seeking virgins are virgins themselves. And since they have waited, they are wanting to find another who waited as well. On one hand i understand, but overall i tend to disagree with this thinking. I can't help but sense a level of arrogance to the attitude. Kind of like 'I waited, so now i'm owed something'.

Exactly. What right do we have to demand this? And if we demand it, do we then not recognize the forgiveness Christ has given to the other 98 percent of the population who has fallen into at least some level of sexual sin (not necessarily involving full sexual contact)?

I personally have never completed the mechanical act, but I've certainly failed as far as Jesus' standards are concerned.


I guess there needs to be a multi tier system for what level of virginity someone has
Tier 1 - Never thought a bad thought in their life
Tier 2 - Just looked at something they shouldn't have online, in print, on TV, at the mall, at the beach,...
Tier 3 - Inappropriate contact
Tier 4 - Engaged in some form of sex but not "sex" sex
Tier 5 - Scum of the earth, sex before marriage



The only place where I can say I really understand all this is when it comes to people who have had sex with another individual and that individual hasn't since been with someone else. For example, divorce is only allowable after adultery. So if you get divorced, you need to wait until your ex husband or wife has already violated the marriage bed before you can get re married (and I'm about to become really unpopular with the divorced crowd about now).

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

I would like to stay a virgin even after marriage. I'm to special to be defiled by a human!!!!

 

[ServantStrike]

I would like to stay a virgin even after marriage. I'm to special to be defiled by a human!!!!

My married friends complain this is what happens. Now I know why.

I always thought the headaches were an excuse...


But you do know that you're now a target because women everywhere will be angry you accidentally divulged this trade secret, right?

 

[Shouryu]

I also seem to recall in one of the Chuck Missler bible studies I did that the actual meanings of the words used for 'virgin' in the OT versus the NT have slightly differing meaning (which isn't surprising since the OT was translated from Hebrew and the NT from Greek). Missler is super-super-big into going back to the original language (especially in the NT, since Greek is a very complex language that leaves very little room for misinterpretation) to understand the author's intent. While the Hebrew word for virgin aligns with our more common definition of the word - a person who has not had sex - the word used in the NT Greek actually just refers to a young, unmarried woman, with no connotations towards her sexual history whatsoever. This is why when Paul speaks to the young singles of the church in Corinth, he refers to them as men and virgins instead of men and women, and the un-singles, he simply calls them husbands and wives.

If I remember correctly, anyhow.

 

[DuchessAimee]

My married friends complain this is what happens. Now I know why.

I always thought the headaches were an excuse...


But you do know that you're now a target because women everywhere will be angry you accidentally divulged this trade secret, right?

The real reasons as to why this happens isn't appropriate to talk about on CC. And it's unfortunate as to why this happens so much in marriage.

 

[Ugly]

I'm going to throw a wrench in the works and bring up Matthew 5

[SUP]27 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; [SUP]28 [/SUP]but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. [SUP]29 [/SUP]If your right eye makes you [SUP][w][/SUP]stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you [SUP][x][/SUP]to lose one of the parts of your body, [SUP][y][/SUP]than for your whole body to be thrown into [SUP][z][/SUP]hell. [SUP]30 [/SUP]If your right hand makes you [SUP][aa][/SUP]stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you [SUP][ab][/SUP]to lose one of the parts of your body, [SUP][ac][/SUP]than for your whole body to go into [SUP][ad][/SUP]hell.'


So, since I don't see a lot of people in the church walking around without eyes or hands, I'm going to assume that they've all done this (the women too).

So then, the only unique identifier is that a virgin didn't complete the mechanical act, but the spiritual act has already happened.




Exactly. What right do we have to demand this? And if we demand it, do we then not recognize the forgiveness Christ has given to the other 98 percent of the population who has fallen into at least some level of sexual sin (not necessarily involving full sexual contact)?

I personally have never completed the mechanical act, but I've certainly failed as far as Jesus' standards are concerned.


I guess there needs to be a multi tier system for what level of virginity someone has
Tier 1 - Never thought a bad thought in their life
Tier 2 - Just looked at something they shouldn't have online, in print, on TV, at the mall, at the beach,...
Tier 3 - Inappropriate contact
Tier 4 - Engaged in some form of sex but not "sex" sex
Tier 5 - Scum of the earth, sex before marriage



The only place where I can say I really understand all this is when it comes to people who have had sex with another individual and that individual hasn't since been with someone else. For example, divorce is only allowable after adultery. So if you get divorced, you need to wait until your ex husband or wife has already violated the marriage bed before you can get re married (and I'm about to become really unpopular with the divorced crowd about now).

Lets complicate the issue even more. You missed a tier. 'Self contact'. =D Maybe Tier 2.5.
Or what if it was only animals? While there are others i could bring up, i won't, haha. But it's easy to see how complicated of an issue this can become.

 

[ServantStrike]

I also seem to recall in one of the Chuck Missler bible studies I did that the actual meanings of the words used for 'virgin' in the OT versus the NT have slightly differing meaning (which isn't surprising since the OT was translated from Hebrew and the NT from Greek). Missler is super-super-big into going back to the original language (especially in the NT, since Greek is a very complex language that leaves very little room for misinterpretation) to understand the author's intent. While the Hebrew word for virgin aligns with our more common definition of the word - a person who has not had sex - the word used in the NT Greek actually just refers to a young, unmarried woman, with no connotations towards her sexual history whatsoever. This is why when Paul speaks to the young singles of the church in Corinth, he refers to them as men and virgins instead of men and women, and the un-singles, he simply calls them husbands and wives.

If I remember correctly, anyhow.

Hmm. Well at that time I don't think people did the entire "shack up" routine either. They simply got married. Somewhere along the way we've overcomplicated things, haven't we?

Other than the Romans all around them who engaged in all sorts of depraved activities, I think the early Church might have been less confusing in some ways. There was no high school, no college, etc.

People grew into adulthood and either got married, or they stayed single. Now you have people say "oh well it was high school" or "oh it was college", so it somehow changed the biblical definition of adultery.

The real reasons as to why this happens isn't appropriate to talk about on CC. And it's unfortunate as to why this happens so much in marriage.

There are a plethora of reasons for it. I was just horsing around, which in retrospect I should have been clearer about. You know, laugh so you don't cry type of situation. Most of the men I've talked to who complain about it are - for lack of a better term, pigs. But women aren't innocent either. I've met really strong men for Christ who's wives did NOT respect them as the spiritual head of the household.

Just, yeah there are a number of reasons why married couples are unhappy.

Lets complicate the issue even more. You missed a tier. 'Self contact'. =D Maybe Tier 2.5.
Or what if it was only animals? While there are others i could bring up, i won't, haha. But it's easy to see how complicated of an issue this can become.

Yeah. It starts to smell like legalism doesn't it?

I almost spewed water all over my monitor when you said tier 2.5 though.

 

[Kreation]

The real reasons as to why this happens isn't appropriate to talk about on CC. And it's unfortunate as to why this happens so much in marriage.

lol he was joking....

 

[GreenNnice]

God does not bring blame nor shame to us for our sins, just discipline, YEs! But, only Love and ONLY forgiveness IN that discipline, and, a better conviction to serve Him in the future through faith to ride through THAT 'STORM' that we endangered our lives with.
It IS the HOly Spirit, who works in us, and, Scripture is CLEAR: "His mercies are new every morning."
He just wants us to care about Him, being a virgin is nothing in the grand scheme of things, being a virgin won't be the thing that gets you to heaven. It's just a thing God says is good to remain until married, because it means we can see a more peaceful living in our lives like knowing/trusting our husband/wife is not sleeping around. But, just because I'm a virgin, doesn't mean I won't sleep around once married. It's just a good way to go about living your life and how we can have Satan be less able to seduce us in the flesh of our married lives.

But if you mess up in this way, it's sin and sin is sin is sin, some carry greater consequences, they hurt you in small ways or great ways and, when others become involved, that makes sin that much more 'dual.' But, God forgives us when we do and it's sin bye, gone, 'sin begone!' when we bring it to the throne of grace, to the 'name of Jesus' in prayer That sin becomes, FORGOTTEN by Him. Gone-bye-bye, far from Him as the east is from the west, He says in the bible. It is remembered NO MORE, just like Mary Magdalene, a prostitute, she sinned and some folks brought her to Jesus and said, 'Look at what she did.'

And, though we don't know what Jesus then scrawled in the sand, He did scrawl something once and then something again and it scattered those who'd condemned Mary M. Jesus said then that those who brought her to Him for judgement were no longer there.

Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?" 11She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."

He works miracles every day, in all areas of peoples' lives. Trust in Him. Though those who are both virgins can have a more sure-footed trust in themselves, it's about trusting our lives in Him, NOT in each other. We humans are sordid sorts, not to say we shouldn't have love for our spouse, we should love them, but, what we need to do MORE than that human 'l' love is the real Love that comes from the big 'L' kind that can only come from Him who plants His Love in our hearts, in our minds, in our souls when He first Loves us. We should be so grand as to trust in Him in showing Him that Love and others, which, not so coincidentally, are the two commandments Jesus mentioned are greatest and which ALL other commandments 'hinge'

 

[Tintin]

Mostly it seems, people seeking virgins are virgins themselves. And since they have waited, they are wanting to find another who waited as well. On one hand i understand, but overall i tend to disagree with this thinking. I can't help but sense a level of arrogance to the attitude. Kind of like 'I waited, so now i'm owed something'.

Human pride is a nasty sin and I'm not going to pretend I don't have prideful moments in life. I'm just saddened by the fact that virgins are seen as the enemy and the worst is assumed.

 

[Ugly]

Human pride is a nasty sin and I'm not going to pretend I don't have prideful moments in life. I'm just saddened by the fact that virgins are seen as the enemy and the worst is assumed.

Who sees them as enemies? Who is assuming the worst?

 

[rachelsedge]

I dunno, I see Tintin's point. As a virgin myself, hoping to marry another virgin (though it wouldn't be a deal breaker if he wasn't, by any means), it's a bit discouraging to read that I must have an arrogant/prideful attitude, or that virginity doesn't really even matter.

Obviously, sexual purity as a whole is important to look for in a mate (within the mind/thoughts/actions of a person) and is more important than whether or not they are "technically" a virgin or not. However, I don't think that means it's wrong to hope for another "technical" virgin. I don't know what I'm trying to convey is coming across...