Grace = Salvation.

[notuptome]

As a practical matter no one can be sinless in this life. We can only be completely forgiven for our sin. Completely justified before God through the blood of Christ and His perfect obedience.

Grace is God imputing to us the merits of Christ. Merit we cannot deserve or achieve on our own.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[JDecree]

Thanks RaneyMarie, I know and understand what you said, but I am trying to understand what Cobus believes.

 

[Cobus]

LJdecree, I will try and answer ALL you ask, and thank you for asking.... First the END we have to endure to, is the END OF THE SINFUL MAN.... but! Why people think that if they stopped sinning they are now perfect, I do not know. The Bible teaches if you STOP sinning you are NOT PERFECT YET! (a person declared SAINT, by God, is already a person who STOPPED SINNING) but SAINTS NEEDS TO BE PERFECTED BEFORE THEY ARE JOINED TO THE BODY OF CHRIST, BEFORE THEY ARE EQUIPED FOR THE MINISTERY... Let there be no confusion... even if we stop committing sin we are NOT PERFECT! WE only reached the SAINTSHIP status. Saints ARE NOT PERFECT, but they are SINLESS!

How sinless they are we have no idea, but God has,,,, they are MOST HOLY ( but not perfect yet.) Eph 4 says PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS... means Saints still to be made perfect....

Secondly, how can God RESURRECT something that is not DEAD! How can God's Spirit quicken or MAKE ALIVE something that is already , or still alive? My friend Jesus says those that wants to save their life will lose it, but those that lose it for HIS NAME SAKE and the GOSPEL, THEY will save it... That means if we hang on to the OLD life we will loose life eternal, but if we LOSE THE OLD LIFE FOR HIS NAME AND THE GOSPEL, we shall save ourselves for LIFE ETERNAL. WE shall GAIN life eternal.


JDecree, I know I have MUCH truth for I have tried the ways of just about every doctrine on this world. Then I asked God... HOW DO I GIVE MY LIFE FOR YOUR NAME AND THE GOSPEL.... And he said DIE OFF THE OLD MAN! And get BAPTIZED...That Baptism is when GOD CLOTHE ME WITH JESUS! When God FILLS me with JESUS, when God SATURATS me with Jesus.

God CLEANS EVERY vessel before HE FILLS IT.. and god cleans it as clean AS HE IS CLEAN... that clean vessel already does not sin, but it is still just an EMPTY VESSEL. CLEAN (Saintly clean) but not FILLED YET!

If God did save 5000 men on one day, I have NO PROBLEM with it...However, I see MANY people say Peter SINNED after he was batized with the Holy Spirit. MAn I wish people will judge AS GOD judge, not as a SINNER JUDGE!
If you think Peter SINNED doing what God wanted done, then OK I guess God also does not know wht He is doing. My friend why did Peter and Paul have words?

What was the outcome? What did YOU LEARN from their "SIN"? Was there ANY other way God could have TAUGHT US THE LESSON? If you think that was the WORST mistake GOD made, think about the one making HIS GLORIOUS SON A HUMAN!
If you can just think a few seconds on that....


Let me PLEASE share with you the lesson, and then you decide again if it was sin or not...First let us get it VERY clear how Jesus/God did react to Peter when HE DID SIN (before HE was baptized) When Peter rebuked God/Jesus Jesus said to him... GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN! Please note that God adressed the spirit in Peter as SATAN!...

Now Paul and Peter... Even before Saul was Paul, God showed Peter and the other JEWS... IMPORTANT TO KNOW... THE OTHER JEWS ALSO SAW THIS.... Cornelius (a SAINT) in Ceasarea (a GENTILE SAINT) WOW!... And an ANGEL of the LORD said to him ... Send men to Joppa, and call Simon Peter.... HE SHALL TELL THEE WHAT THOU SHOULD DO!... Ok the rest you can read in Acts 10. So PETER and some of the BRETHREN (JEWS) from Joppa went to Cornelius...This was the FIRST GENTILES, that the SPIRIT OF GOD FELL ON! And this happened WITHOUT A WATER BAPTISM.... Very important to KNOW THIS.ALso without a JEWISH CIRCUMSITION....


My friend do not miss these points I share now. It makes the WHOLE Gospel of God for us OPEN! Cornelius was a SAINT. He did not sin for a long time. God says he lived a GOD FEARING life, He prayed to God NON STOP, and he gave a lot to the poor. It looks like he was quite a good person if even judged by a sinner like me. But! he had NO HOLY SPIRIT... NONE! So obviously there was some TRUTH in the man... Some Word of God that he man could live GOD FEARING...
Then this..... An Angel tells him how he will GET IT ALL... PETER would tell him WHAT TO DO....

Also you have to see this... when Peter ENTERED, CORNELIUS FELL DOWN BEFORE PETER AND WORSHIPPED HIM...Peter said STAND UP I MYSELF ALSO AM A MAN! But remember it was an ANLAWFUL thing for a Jew to keep company or come into the house of a GENTILE... However God showed Peter HE SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN....Remember this.

Then Peter preach about the GOSPEL, and the LIFE OF JESUS, and the SPIRIT FALLS ON THEM ALL... but they ALL LIVED GOD FEARING LIVES,... Cornelius and HIS WHOLE HOUSE... ONE THAT FEARED GOD WITH ALL HIS HOUSE... And THEN BAM! AS you say BAM! but please note that this man was already a GOD FEARING MAN... He already KNEW GOD'S way! The HOLY SPIRIT FELL ON ALL OF THEM. Just as HE DID N THE BRETHREN IN JOPPE!

Now! HERE IS THE LESSON, HID IN ONE VERSE.... OF A THRUTH I PERCEIVE...GOD IS NOT A RESPECTOR OF PERSONS... What did GOD RESPECT IN CRNELIUS AND HIS HOUSEHOLD?.... THE TRUTH! THE GODLY WAYS OF THE MAN. God knows there was NO HOLY SPIRIT in or around or leading CORNELIUS, but the man LIVED A PRAYING, GOD FEARING life. AND HE HAD A GIVING HEART... Why did CORNELIUS live such a life? He BELIEVED THE TRUTH ABOUT GOD! He believed that God can REWARD HIS FEAR OF A LIFE WITHOUT GOD!!!! A God fearing life, is TO FEAR LIFE WITHOUT GOD... AND HE PRAYED FOR GOD TO BE IN HIS LIFE.... What do you pray? FATHER LET THOU WILL BE DONE IN ME AS IN HEAVEN... Same with CORNELIUS... GOD FEARING...


Ok that is the FIRST PART... ALL the Jews would get the NEWS that the Holy Spirit fell on a Gentile and his whole house. This ASTONISHED all the CIRCUMCISED that came with Peter.... But they had to KNOW that the Holy Spirit can also fall on GENTILES... UNCIRCUMCISIONED... This is what it is about... This man recieved the Spirit of God as a GENTILE, UNCIRCUMCISIONED and NOT WATER BAPTIZED, and NONE OF THE JEWISH TRADITIONS... NONE!

The LESSON this far is GOD GIVES THE HOLY SPIRIT TO PEOPLE THAT DID NOT UPHOLD ONE OF THE JEWISH TRADITIONS... Not SABBATH, NOT LAW, NOT CIRCUMSITION, NOT BAPTISM WITH WATER, NOT SACRIFICE, NO JEWISH TRADITON, NONE!


LEt me do part two in another box.

 

[Cobus]

Even though Simon Peter was the first to see a GENTILE when the HOLY SPIRIT FELL ON the Gentile, WHITHOUT ANY JEWISH TRADITION.... PETER WAS NOT THE ELECTED APOSTLE FOR THE GENTILES. Peter would be the apostle that would let the SHEEP OF THE ONE FOLD (circumcised) ONTO THE GRAZING LAND OF THE WORD OF GOD! THREE TIMES JESUS SAID THIS TO PETER.

BUT did Peter and US knew that God would APPOINT YET ANOTHER APOSTLE... and did GOD HAVE TO CONFIRM HIS APOINTMENT WITH POWER? GREAT POWER so we will HAVE NO DOUBT ABOUT PAUL’S APOSTLESHIP? Yes God had to be TRUE TO HIS WORD... God said PAUL WILL BEAR HIS NAME BEFORE THREE THINGS... Gentiles, Kings and Israel. WE will see this soon, and how POWERFUL God does do that. Paul was the MOST ADAPTED (VERSITILE) APOSTLE OF GOD! The only APOSTE OF GOD WITH TWO GOSPELS... We will see this, just get first what PETER WAS APPOINTED FOR!

JESUS said THREE TIMES TO PETER.... DO YOU LOVE ME? Three times... And then Jesus answered... FEED MY LAMBS, FEED MY SHEEP, FEED MY SHEEP.... Now things are starting to come together.... If ONLY we woud know this, right here and now, that this meant....
John 10:16... And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

If we would have just known this, God did not have to show us so VIVIDLY with the thing between Paul and Peter in Antioch.

When the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius, WHY WAS IT NECCESARY TO BAPTIZE THEM IN WATER? The moment I read that for the first time, I was BAFFLED why Peter would say this.... Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? Why would you baptize a man with water, when he JUST RECEIVED THE BAPTISM OF GOD, with HOLY SPIRIT?

If God just baptized Cornelius with HOLY SPIRIT, why does he still have to go and do a JEWISH TRADITION WITH WATER BAPTISM? Peter just witnessed that God would POUR OUT HIS SPIRIT ON A PERSON THAT WAS NOT BAPTIZED WITH WATER..... EVEN THOUGH THE MAN OBSERVED NO JEWISH TRADITION... REMEMBER THIS! NO JEWISH TRADITION...

Then Paul and Peter met up and they lived amongst the Gentiles... Both ate and had COMMUNIONSHIP with Gentiles.... No Jews around! Only SHEEP FROM THE PENFOLD IN THE BLUE PART ABOVE (uncircumcised) GENTLES...
My dear friends.... GET THIS... God said to ANANIAS that Paul would be the APOSTLE to the GENTILES,,, the ELECTED VESSEL OF THE GOSPEL, God RESERVED FOR PAUL, NOT PETER, NOT JAMES NOT ANANIAS... FOR PAUL.... LOOK! And please do not miss this... God had PAUL in mind for A GOSPEL TO THE HEATHENS.... Are there now TWO Gospels? YES! Two Gospels but ONE DOCTRINE, ONE SHEPARD AND ONE SALVATION!!!!

Look at this PLEASE.... Peter said to the people (LOTS OF DEFFERENT LANGUAGES) in Jerusalem (JUST AFTER TEY RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT 120 OF THEM... Peter said this.... RERENT AND BE BATIZED... but when He was preaching Jesus to Cornelius the SPIRIT FELL ON ALL OF THEM. When did Cornelius REPENT, and when was HE BAPTIZED... Yet the SPIRIT FELL ON HIM... Something did not fit the REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED... OR DID IT? Can a person be GOD FEARING and NOT REPENT? And if Cornelius did REPENT is that why HE WAS GOD FEARING? YES!!! I mean even ANGELS TALKED TO THE GUY! How many of us get this privaladge to have GOD SEND AN ANGEL TO TALK TO US? Or are we not GOD FEARING ENOUGH? Obviously the Apostle with the GOSPEL FOR THE CIRCUMCISED IS NOT FIT FOR THE GENTILES.... SEE THIS!
So God has to PROVE to the WHOLE WORLD, US included... THAT THE GOSPEL OF circumcised and Gospel of UNCIRCUMCISED is DIFFERENT!..... This God did with the EVENT AT ANTIOCH... NEITHER APOSTLE SINNED... THEY WERE BOTH TRUE TO THEIR GOSPELS... If you ant me to go into detail I will but if you believe this, then you are already GOOD TO SEE THE TRUTH!

We learn later that Paul and the Apostles agreed what the Gentiles should and should not observe... That you can read in Acts 21.... YET God poured out HIS SPIRIT ON Cornelius, without ANY of these observance.... And this is GOOD for us to know, for when God wants to give SPIRIT NOTHING WILL ST HIM. No observance will hinder God to POUR OUT HIS SPIRIT ON WHOMEVER HE WANTS.

So God appointed Paul and God said... He is the vessel that will take the GOSPEL that GOD HAS KEPT FOR PAUL ... The GOSPEL OF THE UNCIRCUMCISION.... And the GOSPEL OF THE CIRCUMCISION was FOR PAUL AND PETER... Paul had TWO GOSPELS, and PETER HAD ONE! Gal 2:7. God said.. Paul would bear HIS NAME before Gntiles, kings, and Jews... Acts 9:14.

And to CONFIRM WITH POWER God had the event happen in Antioch. And it is Jewish tradition Gospel vs. Gentile Gospel... That is why Paul preached, KNOWING BOTH GOSPELS.... EVEN TO THE ONE GOSPEL APOSTLES.... God said Paul would BEAR HIS NAME to even the Children of ISRAEL... SIMN PETER AND JAMES and ALL Jews had to hear this..... Gal 2....
Peace about this, Oh I have PEACE about this.... God IS TRULY FAITHFUL!

Be blessed my friends.

 

[Cobus]

As a practical matter no one can be sinless in this life. We can only be completely forgiven for our sin. Completely justified before God through the blood of Christ and His perfect obedience.

Grace is God imputing to us the merits of Christ. Merit we cannot deserve or achieve on our own.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Roger what is a SAINT? Does a saint sin? If God calls a person a SAINT, does that person still sin? Or what would God call a man that does not sin?

 

[Bookends]

Roger what is a SAINT? Does a saint sin? If God calls a person a SAINT, does that person still sin? Or what would God call a man that does not sin?

A Saint, not because of impurities, but because God's righteous and sinless attributes have been imputed to us who faithfully believe into Christ (Romans 4).

The Power is in the Blood Cobus, which first justifies us and reconciles us to God, WE are SAVED Period! Then the HOLY SPIRIT is given to us for Christian service, instruction, transformation, and righteous living; it's not an all or nothing proposition (Romans 5).

 

[Cobus]

Bookie I am not asking HOW A SAINT IS MADE, I ask WHAT IS A SAINT IN GOD'S opinion... Is it a person that CAN or DO sin...I suppose ALL CAN sin but DOES A SAINT SIN OR NOT...

I do not want to know how a Saint is made, I want to know WHAT IS A SAINT IF GOD DECLARES A PERSON AS A SAINT!

Can you please answer me what is YOUR opinion of a saint? Or what is GOD'S opinion of a saint? What are these people, people that sin, or people that DO NOT SIN?


Eph 4.... For the perfecting of the saints,.... These are the ones I want you to define....And why do God call them SAINTS to be PERFECTED?

 

[JDecree]

So in order to get around Peter's sin you have to divide the gospel into 2?
(Gal 2:7) But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

I can see how you *could* concievably take that single sentence as saying that there are somehow 2 gospels. But it isnt. Paul is saying, "like Peter was sent to give the gospel to the jews, I(Paul) was sent to give the gospel to the gentiles." IF there WERE 2 gospels, what exactly would differentiate them? "(Gal 1:8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." I am not saying you are necessarily preaching another gospel, but the idea of there being 2 different gospels conflicts with this scripture.

A saint doesnt sin but yet he has yet to be perfected? Even neglecting to do the right thing is sin. So an imperfect saint not only doesnt do what is wrong, he ALWAYS does what is right, yes? And you say a mortal human being can accomplish this without the Holy Spirit(Cornelius according to your example)?

I dont know man the more I hear the more I think we need to agree to disagree. You may see this as me "rejecting the truth" or whatever but I just find too many inconsistencies in what you are saying. Some of it makes sense to a point, but then again, so does just about any doctrine.

I'll tell you one thing, this sinless perfection stuff has done more to damage my faith and cause me to doubt and sin than anything else. That doesnt refute perfection as it is put forth, but it does raise an eyebrow.

Thank you for the discussion. May we both find what we desire, which is a close relationship with Christ, and the death of sin and death itself. In Jesus name, AMEN.

Take care.

 

[2Thewaters]

Grace is not salvation
Grace is the POWER OF GOD unto salvation if we obey him for the spirit is given to those who obey his word.

 

[2Thewaters]

Heb 13:25 Grace be with you all. Amen.

Grace is the Godhead.
Hebrews 10:29 the SPIRIT of grace.
1 Pet 1:2 Elect...through sanctification (obedience through suffering) of the spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.






Grace is the person/power of divine God, his holy spirit, abiding within you if you are obedient to his word.

He does not dwell in those who willfully sin
that is another spirit.

Those disobeying God have a different spirit.

 

[notuptome]

Roger what is a SAINT? Does a saint sin? If God calls a person a SAINT, does that person still sin? Or what would God call a man that does not sin?

Paul sinned. Paul struggled with his old nature and temptation to sin just as any man. Romans 7:14-25

A saint is a born again person. Spiritually born again by grace through faith. Quickened by the Holy Spirit. Once dead in trespasses and sin now alive in Christ. An inheritor of eternal life with Christ.

God calls a man who says he does not sin a liar.

By grace God makes us something we are not...righteous.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Bookie I am not asking HOW A SAINT IS MADE, I ask WHAT IS A SAINT IN GOD'S opinion... Is it a person that CAN or DO sin...I suppose ALL CAN sin but DOES A SAINT SIN OR NOT...

I do not want to know how a Saint is made, I want to know WHAT IS A SAINT IF GOD DECLARES A PERSON AS A SAINT!

Can you please answer me what is YOUR opinion of a saint? Or what is GOD'S opinion of a saint? What are these people, people that sin, or people that DO NOT SIN?


Eph 4.... For the perfecting of the saints,.... These are the ones I want you to define....And why do God call them SAINTS to be PERFECTED?

Saints are perfected when we are glorified together with our Savior. We are in a life long process of being perfected which is sanctification. We are set apart for God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Cobus]

Roger ... raping the Word of God again? 1 John 1:8 is the single verse in the bible that sinners RAPE the most. Oh how people twist that little verse to JUSTIFY sin in their lives.

This one PLEASE share when this happens.... You say we will only be perfect when we are GLORIFIED TOGETHER WITH OUR SAVIOUR.... So when does that happen? Jesus asked Father to d oit for us WHILE WE ARE STILL RIGHT HERE ON EARTH..

Come on before any of you ask or answer on this thread again... READ JOHN 17.... Now I ask this... Roger are you PERFECTLY one with JESUS AND FATHER? what wbout you JDECREE, are you perfectly one with GOD and ROGER...

When does God make us PERFECTLY ONE WITH EACHOTHER IN HIM? Or better yet... What does God give to ANY person to make that person HOLY, PERFECT and SINLESS?

Here is my challange to ALL who read this... Show me a verse in the bible, where God says HE GIVES SOMETHING TO A PERSON TO MAKE THAT PERSON A SINLESS PERFECT PERSON... Show me ONE VERSE! Let me ask this... CAN ANY PERSON WHO HAS THE SEED OF GOD IN HIM SIN?

I will give one, and maybe I STOLE this one from your heart, please forgive me.... 1 John 3:9... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[duewell]

adam and eve were created by God and were with out sin. yet they sinned. could someone be a sinner all their life and yet their sins still serve Gods purpose? yes, all things serve God. regardless of what their personal desires or beliefs are, they still serve God, as do we all. do you want to be forgiven of your sins or would you stand there saying you are now sinless?

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. i must say that for as often as i see you throw this verse out there i cant help but wonder why? is it to convince others that you are unable to sin or to convince yourself that you are unable to sin? so is there a third way you mean? are you trying to teach Christians that they are without sin?

here is thing, the biggest struggle i had after putting to death the sins of the flesh was coming to grips with this simple fact. all things serve God. its a concept that took months of struggle to understand. with some very intense experiences while doing so.

if all things serve God, then i cannot sin. if i cannot sin, then i am free to do anything, as anything i do will still serve God.

thats actually the core of lucifers argument. all things serve God, so when the devil tempts you to leave God, the devil says temptation still serves God, and therefore the devil did not sin. for all things serve God. so i guess even if i attempt to sin, what i do wont be sin, cause it will still serve God. does this free me from being accountable of my attempt to sin?

1 john 3 v10 this is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

so i think what we should be telling people is about how we need to do what is right, instead of telling them how they can do no wrong.

Duewell
mark 4 v11-13

 

[Abiding]

 

[Cobus]

Duewell, ALL things serve God? Even sin? Let me get the verse and study it... I cannot find it... but I would like to know how sin serves God. I have always paid attention to your writings but I am confused... how does sin serve God?

This is the Scripture that teach me who serve whom... Romans 6:16.... Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Duewell, it looks there is two parties that can be served not one... sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness... I just want to let people know that God's rigteousness has POWER to even clean a HOGG! That is why Abiding agrees with me.

God said MANY that have the APPEARANCE or a FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING the POWER THEREOF... it is this POWER I want people to understand... Do you understand what is the POWER OF GODLINESS... Is that not THE SEED that is the POWER of GODLINESS?

Please show me how sin serve God, if I can understnad that, I might get new direction!

Abiding check out how happy the hog is..... hahahaha! Is that the effect of the peace Jesus offers, and the REST?

 

[Cobus]

Abiding, Love you man! If I sin against you PLEASE talk to me.... Matthew 18:15... Judge my heart my man, you HAVE too!

 

[JDecree]

Is that the effect of the peace Jesus offers, and the REST?

if it is as you say none of us are likely to ever know. It makes me wonder why Christ hasnt returned yet. Has anyone ever told you that your message kills faith?

You will say "ah but i am preaching God's word!" In your opinion you are. If God wants to save me, He will and if reality turns out to align with your gospel then I will know it then. Otherwise there is no knowing anything.

 

[Cobus]

JDecree, how can the BEST NEWS kill faith? For if we are saved by GRACE through FAITH... what do we have to believe? If you tell me God's dalvation is to leave me a sinner, why even ask for GRACE then? What is the USE of grace, if I CANNOT rule over sin?

My friend what hope is there for a sinner if he will ALWAYS be a sinner. This is what made me CHANGE my views of God and in what GOD CAN DO....

I have to share something with you... When i was in church the FIRST time in my life, I was 38.5 years old. And the people sand the "onse Vader" Our FATHER WHOM ART IN HEAVEN.... And it was done BEAUTIFULLY,,, the organinst was a lade that KNOWS her notes, the church sang BEAUTIFUL... and I felt like the ONLY SINNER THERE... I could not sing, i did not know the Words and I was so REMORCEFUL of all the sin in my life....

As I got more and more involved in the church, I was really so busy ALL my time outside of my work was spent on something for the church... Then one day... I realized the church does not live up to the Word.... I gathered another few thousand for a sound system for the newly build YOUTH-HOUSE.... and on the way to TOMS, I spoke to my youth minister... I said.. Henry there is something amiss in our church... God is NAGGING on me to INVESTIGATE and to PROOF the spirit of the Church... Wow the man was shocked... So heasks me.. What do you think our church needs? I said... THE HOLY SPIRIT... He said Cobus, you are really kicking it up this time.... But we were in my pocket rocket so he had no choice but to listen...

Then a miricle happened that day, actually TWO... And they were miricles just believe me.... They were so unnoticed by the minister, that I wonder if I ask him what did happen that day, he would not even know, yet HE WAS RIGHT THERE IN THE CAR WITH ME!...

So I ended up WEIGHING THE VALUES.... And a few montsh later I was in a church-council meeting with these same "Christians"... And they were NAILING another "Christian"... Let me just tell you without detail, that the toughest SINNER they EVER had in their church, now serving with them on the council, BROKE DOWN AND CRIED when God showed him something..... As this council displayed their UNFORGIVING NATURE, and HOLY WAYS, it was the MOST EVIL THING I EVER SAW IN MY LIFE.... I that had organised strip shows a few months back sat there and I could not believe how HARD AND COLD AND CRUEL they treat one of their OWN!

So I asked God... LORD SHOW ME THE HEART OF THIS CHURCH.... God showed me A BLACK, HARD, COLD AND WET IRON ROCK... WOW! I just started to cry... So hard they had to stop the meeting... because it was close to tea-break it was then inforced... what I am getting at is this.... If Christianity is what "CHRISTIANS" show today, WHY SHOULD ANY SINNER CHANGE?

If God CANNOT TAKE AWAY SIN.. not the penalty, Jesus did that 2000 years ago, but CAN THE HOLY GOD YOU ALL CLAIM TO WORSHIP actually save us from sin? If sin in me makes me HATE the sin, AND MYSELF, how can I love you? If you think I will EVER love me as sinner, think again. And if God cannot REMOVE ME FROM SIN, and SIN FROM ME... Why should I go to Him? But God not only do so HE PROMISES THIS IF YOU FOLLOW HIM....

You know JDecree, this I CANNOT understand... how come God says... BE PERFECT, if he KNOWS WE CANNOT ATTAIN PERFECTION... that would make HIM REALLY unfair! But did he say it becasue HE KNOWS what HE CAN DO FOR US?

Here is what I do NOT believe about you.... That you do not believe God CAN and WILL make you PERFECT right here on earth... Why would you NOT want that? Just because you do not SEE any PERFECT person does not mean there ARE no perfect person... Do you SEE GOD? Is GOD THERE?


JDecree I will ALWAYS love you, God has added you to my heart. Now? You know God loves you... I know you know this... Then do you think BECAUSE HE loved you FIRST, that you will LOVE HIM BACK?.... OK YOU SAY YES.... But what is the LOVE WE LOVE GOD BACK WITH?....


And here you have to read this Scripture, and you will SEE HOW THE EVENT OF PERFECTION IS ATTAINED BY GOD... So if you do NOT HAVE IT YET.... DO IT NOW!!!!


Here is the SCRIPTURE HOW GOD MAKES US PERFECT.... John 14:23... If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

JDecree if God loved us FIRST and if we show our love by KEEPING HIS WORD, do you not think HE WILL SUPPLY US WITH THE MEASURE OF FAITH TO KEEP THE WORD? Are you or are you NOT VERY BUSY SEARCHING FOR GOD IN HIS WORD? Where do you think that HUNGER for righteousness comes from? from the sinning heart (Stony) or the fleshly heart that God gave you to HUNGER FOR THE SPIRIT? God gives us TWO THINGS... a NEW FLESHLY HEART, and then HIS SPIRIT. And I will give you a SCRIPTURE gaurentee if any person recieved BOTH from God that person CAN ONLY KEEP GOD'S WORD... INCLUDING BE PERFECT....

My friend do NOT despare and DO NOT be hurt.... ALL TEARS God will dry, and HE WILL GIVE YOU REST... HIS YOKE IS NOT HEAVY... It is SATAN and HIS false teachers that CANNOT KEEP God's Word... THEY CANNOT RECEIVE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH. God says so EXPLICITLY...

Come on at least acknowledge wat God did for you thus far.... You are not in a PORN SITE, you are in CC, where I am sure the Truth of GOD is also on the menu... Might not be the ONLY thing on the menu, but at least it is there...

JDecree, do NOT GIVE UP... you might be the VERY ELECT, and SOON NO ONE WILL TOSS YOU TOO AND FRO WITH FALSE DOCTRINE... I feel real STEADY in what I believe....
I still hope and pray AND BELIEVE God WILL SHOW YOU THE JDecree that is CLOTHED WITH JESUS, WOWOWOWOWO!

 

[Cobus]

I know you came close to say... COBUS IS EVIL... And I want NOTHING to do with this man or his doctrine, and MANY people has done EXACTLY that... But I am not even Jesus, and I did not say you should be perfect, HE DID!

Jesus said those EXACT wrds to a bunch of sinners that at right there in HIS MIDST... And he got NO ARGUMENT FROM THEM. In fact look at the VERY NEXT Words HE said ...
He said in Matthew 5:48... Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Now MAtthew 6 does not start with... BUT JESUS NO ONE IS PERFECT... OR .... JESUS WE WILL ALWAYS BE HUMAN AND FLESH AND SIN.... BLA BLA BLA...

Nope This is how MAtthew 6 starts.... Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

It also did not start... SO WHEN YOU ARE PERFECT NOW GO AND SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS.... AND AMUSE YOUR SUFFERING SINNING BROTHERS WITH IT! JUDGE THEM AND CONDEMN THAM TO HELL.... NOPE!!!!

Perfect people LOVE even their enemy. And THEY LOVE THEIR BROTHERS, even if they are not perfect YET! Even if they are not SAINTS yet.... GOD LET GROW, some gow in a week, some in a long time... WE plant, WE water (irrigate), but GOD LET GROW! NO MAN has ANY influance on the growth not even the one GOD LET GROW...

My friend, please know GOD LOVES YOU AS HE LOVED JESUS... AND GOD MADE JESUS PERFECT. He will do NOTHING SHORT for ONE REASON.... IT IS HIS WILL! I pray you see how PERFECT God's LOVE IS!!!