What Laws are still valid to christians

[Elin]

Agreed. Why is there such animosity toward people that revere the Mosaic Law? If one takes the entire Bible as truth, even for today, they somehow want to be under the law, or a person that seeks justification by obeying the law.

If Jesus didn’t destroy it, and Paul said that it was holy, good, and Spiritual, why wouldn’t people want to understand what Paul understood, and strive to see the spiritual truth in the law for today? How can a person label another person that is striving to understand the concepts of the entire Bible as relevant as believing in a false doctrine? Is it a deep-seated guilt coming from the accusers? I tend to think so.

That "the law is spiritual" means it came from God.
"I am unspiritual" means "sold as a slave to sin," which is not from God, but from man (Ro 7:14).

"The law is spiritual" does not mean there is hidden meaning in the law which we must discover.
That is Gnostic thinking.

God's word is exoterical, not esoterical.

 

[homwardbound]

Galatians 5:13-15 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.



Here are the instructions, or (hear the instructions) of how to love your neighbor. God describes and identifies an attitude we are to have toward others.

1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. 7You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9“A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. 11Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!Galatians 5

you missed these verses and go to law give to moses again. yet still quote the latter of the chapter.

Leviticus 19:1-18 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
[SUP]2[/SUP]Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, ye shall offer it at your own will.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And if it be eaten at all on the third day, it is abominable; it shall not be accepted.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore every one that eateth it shall bear his iniquity, because he hath profaned the hallowed thing of the LORD: and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.[/QUOTE

speaking to who underlined by 2.
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. again in the same chapter

So then if one is having troubles in these areas underlined, then one might be walking by the flesh and not the Spirit of God, yes?

 

[Elin]

Here is God golden chain of salvation:"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Rom.8:29-30

Now, Rom. 2:13"for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but
the doers of the law will be justified;"
This is the WORD of GOD, How do you relate them, they seem to be in conflict? Hoffco

No conflict.

No one can do the law well enough to be justified, so the practical reality of it is that it does not justify, because no one can fulfill the condition of keeping "every word" (Dt 27:26).

The practical reality of it is that the law condemns and curses everyone, no exceptions, including the Jews (Gal 3:10).

 

[homwardbound]

Actually the circumcision of the heart is Old Testament law confirmed by Paul who was not against the law if it is handled as God originally intended it to be.
1 Timothy 1:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Romans 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Romans 2:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Hebrews 10:27-29 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

So yes, how can anyone escape if we:
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

 

[just-me]

So then if one is having troubles in these areas underlined, then one might be walking by the flesh and not the Spirit of God, yes?

Yes. Self justification by the law is corrupting to the soul, same goes for self justification without the law. So the law shouldn't be what is in question, it is ourselves, by the law, and the totality of His word that should put us in question about who we really are in the sight of God. He looks at our heart to see if it is circumcised or not. As believers in Christ Jesus, we are to acknowledge before him, where we see "WE" fall short. We will never see that, if we don't take all of His Word to heart. Spiritually.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You don't agree with the circumcision of the heart being part of the law then? So I'll let you answer this question.

Yes, circumcision of the heart is commanded in the law. But I am talking about circumcision of the flesh. Moses commands the latter, and Christ forbids it as a matter of obedience. Physical circumcision and spiritual circumcision are by no means the same thing, even though the former was a shadow and type of the latter.

So please don't try to deflect the discussion from physical circumcision. Who do you obey? Moses or Christ.

 

[Elin]

Their guilt may not be the answer, It may be that they have believed a lie ,so lone, that they are beyond conviction. It is a lie to believe "faith alone" saves.

Then it is a lie to believe the revelation of the word of God spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, and the light in which all Scripture is to be understood:

"For it is by grace you have been saved (this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God) through faith, not by works, so that no one can boast" (Eph 2:8-9).

Faith alone saves, but faith never exists alone, for true faith manifests itself by obedience.
But it is not the manifestation of faith that saves, it is the faith that saves.

 

[Josh321]

Do you really want to know the definition of the spirit of the law? here it is, for example the devil uses a perversion of this, the flesh can only manifest what fruits our spirits have, so if someone have a spirit of bondage to addiction the flesh would manifest the fruits of that spirit, if someone has a spirit of lust the flesh would manifest that, now to the important part if someone has the HOLY SPIRIT, which is the spirit of law, we WILL AUTOMATICALLY FULFILL THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW, i really want people to look at this, THAT IS THE POWER THAT CHANGES ADDICTION TO HOLYNESS, LUST TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, that is the law everyone must be under and that is the only way to stand in the truth, it doesn't matter what good works you do, if you give to the poor everyweek attend sabbath everysaturday keep the commandments holy, doesn't matter what you do if you don't have the holy spirit it is all in vain and the bible said [h=3]Matthew 5:17 ESV / 6 helpful votes[/h]“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.


oh my goodness if people really truly understood what this mean, the word fulfill means to complete make it whole, and how did he do this? through the death of the cross and receiving the holy spirit, now tell me this, if God came to fulfill the law BY THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT, why are people trying to be justified by the works of the law? that means something is wrong, i urge you all to examine yourself and see if you are going down the right path, God bless

 

[Elin]

John is very clear in the relationship between love and law keeping: "This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. ..."2jh.6 1jh. 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. and His commandments are not burdensome.: Hoffco

Yes, and his commandments are found in Jn 13:34; Mt 22:37-40.

 

[just-me]

That "the law is spiritual" means it came from God.
"I am unspiritual" means "sold as a slave to sin," which is not from God, but from man (Ro 7:14).

"The law is spiritual" does not mean there is hidden meaning in the law which we must discover.
That is Gnostic thinking.

God's word is exoterical, not esoterical.

I give to you a redundant scripture that I mentioned not too long ago.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

From the natural man it is hidden.

Romans 8:7-9 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[homwardbound]

Spiritual adultery, and serving other God's. People are do that even today. I think Baal was one of them in the OT. Making God in our own image, and so on. God's law is against that.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Deuteronomy 4:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
Romans 1:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

So bottom line is one is either of flesh Spirit that is dead or alive in God's Spirit via the resurrection of God to us from God, a free gift yes, is this correct?

 

[just-me]

Yes, and his commandments are found in Jn 13:34; Mt 22:37-40.

You are correct, so there is no conflict between the law and these Words Jesus spoke.
Matthew 22:37-40 (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Deuteronomy 6:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Leviticus 19:17-19 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

 

[cfultz3]

I hate when the "like" button does not work

 

[just-me]

So bottom line is one is either of flesh Spirit that is dead or alive in God's Spirit via the resurrection of God to us from God, a free gift yes, is this correct?

Yes. I would say it different though. Jesus related the Spirit like a wind in John 3. It's a direction of persuasion. I would say "a dead flesh persuasion" versus "a living God persuasion." They are in conflict with each other.

 

[just-me]

I hate when the "like" button does not work

Hit refresh

 

[homwardbound]

Why would you ask such a ridiculous question to a mortal such as myself. Whatever you believe in that respect, I have not problem with. The question should be are you really saved or not? I cannot, and neither can anyone else answer that question with any truth. It is obvious to me that this is a question to cause argument. Have you ever read from me that I believe one way or the other?
That's God's judgement not mans. I will give you this however;

Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

To sin again and ask for further forgiveness from God is what this is talking about.
Christ died once and for all
[h=3]1 John 2:12[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]12 [/SUP]I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.

This is to finalize that from God through Son we are forgiven, and this is not for anyone to take for granted or how will:
Hebrews 2:3
how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

 

[just-me]

Do you really want to know the definition of the spirit of the law? here it is, for example the devil uses a perversion of this, the flesh can only manifest what fruits our spirits have, so if someone have a spirit of bondage to addiction the flesh would manifest the fruits of that spirit, if someone has a spirit of lust the flesh would manifest that, now to the important part if someone has the HOLY SPIRIT, which is the spirit of law, we WILL AUTOMATICALLY FULFILL THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW, i really want people to look at this, THAT IS THE POWER THAT CHANGES ADDICTION TO HOLYNESS, LUST TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, that is the law everyone must be under and that is the only way to stand in the truth, it doesn't matter what good works you do, if you give to the poor everyweek attend sabbath everysaturday keep the commandments holy, doesn't matter what you do if you don't have the holy spirit it is all in vain and the bible said Matthew 5:17 ESV / 6 helpful votes

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.


oh my goodness if people really truly understood what this mean, the word fulfill means to complete make it whole, and how did he do this? through the death of the cross and receiving the holy spirit, now tell me this, if God came to fulfill the law BY THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT, why are people trying to be justified by the works of the law? that means something is wrong, i urge you all to examine yourself and see if you are going down the right path, God bless

It spurs us to ask God to do in us what we can't do by our own power. It enhances the prayer life.

Ephesians 6:14-18 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 

[john832]

That "the law is spiritual" means it came from God.
"I am unspiritual" means "sold as a slave to sin," which is not from God, but from man (Ro 7:14).

"The law is spiritual" does not mean there is hidden meaning in the law which we must discover.
That is Gnostic thinking.

God's word is exoterical, not esoterical.

That the sky is blue means it is a space shuttle. Call it whatever you will, Paul says the Law is spiritual, it is the carnal mind that is contrary...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[just-me]

To sin again and ask for further forgiveness from God is what this is talking about.
Christ died once and for all
1 John 2:12

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]12 [/SUP]I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.

This is to finalize that from God through Son we are forgiven, and this is not for anyone to take for granted or how will:
Hebrews 2:3
how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Salvation is a way of life, not something that happened in the past. Good point brother.

 

[john832]

The mind which is upon flesh is in enmity with God, seeing that it is not subjugated to God's Law (Love) , neither indeed can it be.

A mind (soul) which is upon the flesh has yet died to the flesh so that by its spirit, it can live by God's Law (Law). Why can't it be? Because it is still trying to find its righteousness through physical deeds (the opposite of spiritual deeds).

Hmmm, yet it says that the carnal mind is not subject to the Law of God. what would a spiritual mind be subject to? The FDA?