What Laws are still valid to christians

[Graybeard]

Would you care to document this so that we can verify, or is it just something you're repeating that you've heard?

I have tried to look back to the source I got this from and cannot find it as there are so many things I've read since then. I will let you know the source so IF you are really interested you can search it. I watched a teaching from Michael Rood and in that clip he had a Jewish scholar (cannot recall his name) who has done interpretation work on the Dead Sea Scrolls, talk about SOME of his findings in this manuscript of Mathew which was written in Hebrew, the question would be asked is why is this not public knowledge and I assume it is because work is still being done..I don't know. What I do know is that what this chap said about the Greek translation and the Hebrew translation is that there are "puns" (I think that was what he called them) in the Hebrew language that once translated into ANY language would not make sense and these were very evident in the Hebrew manuscript proving that they had to be the first writings. I am no scholar so it is new to me and hard to explain, all I can say is anyone proclaiming to be a follower of Christ would do themselves good to look into it.

 

[Graybeard]

Not everyone who claims to be a christian is a christian. they just had behind the christian name that is what you are seeing, a true born again christian will never love the things in the world or practice sin, i see this all the time too.. i myself was like thing party on saturday church on sunday pretending to be holy, can't expect them to do any better when they don't have the spirit of God in them

It is not parting on Saturday night I am referring to...it is things like Christmas and Easter......

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I disagree that he is trying to figure out what I believe. He already knows. The thing that he, or you, for that matter, have a problem with, is that I see all scripture as Spiritual, and both of you see certain parts of scripture as Spiritual, and other parts of scripture as only physical. That's the only difference. I'm sure both of you have known that about what I believe for some time.

EG is right. I have no idea what you believe. I just hear confusion coming from you.

 

[Elin]

tell me elin is the above done once or over and over, after one does that confession, and receives the forgiveness of God? If you say, over and over,
I need scripture that says this after the death of Christ at the cross of Christ please.

Addressed to believers (2:12-14, 19, 3:1, 5:13) after the death of Christ, John writes:
"If we (including himself) claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we (including himself) confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
If we (including himself) claim we have not sinned (as did the Gnostics), we make him out to be a liar, and his word has no place in our lives." (1Jn 1:8-10)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No. to be honest we do not. Because you seem to answer questions in a way which does not answer questions.

He asked you about physical circucmicison/ You continually answer about spiritual. but do not give your view on physical. And you wonder why he gets so mad. he is NOT ASKING about spiritual. so why answer him that way?

Honestly, I don't get mad at these people. Perturbed that they are so obtuse and evasive is more accurate.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Would I force him to be circumcised? No
And would I consider him to be in sin if he would not? No

Then he would be in violation of the law of Moses. Apparently you are saying that is not sin.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Is not their only one mediator between God and Man, Jesus Christ. Is Paul anything, Peter, Abraham, Noah, Moses, are any of the Patriarchs. Whom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! again all one day will be judged by the intention to what they have done or not done

Paul was/is the mouthpiece of Christ on earth to the gentiles.

 

[Josh321]

this suppose to be a Bible discussion forum but instead it's a battlefield and no one seeking to find the truth, instead of me telling you things.. ima just show the text in the scripture and let me hear what all of you have to say.. that is the only way and we will discuss your anwser if it is in the right place or not, so first thing, what does this mean to you

[h=3]Ephesians 2:14-22[/h][h=3]King James Version (KJV)

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

[/h]

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Neither is Paul

Yet Paul is a mouthpiece for Christ for those under the new covenant.

 

[Josh321]

what does this mean to you?

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation
[h=3]Romans 10:3-10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That's what I was saying from the first. Sorry you missed that. I also said the the circumcision of the heart was in the Mosaic law. Why don't you admit that? I haven't seen that yet. We could probably have a decent conversation if we agreed on that truth.

Circumcision of the heart is in the law. I freely admit that. When are you going to admit that physical circumcision and spiritual circumcision are not the same thing?

 

[Josh321]

what does this mean to you?

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[h=3]Romans 3:20-24[/h]King James Version (KJV)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Actually the Law was ALWAYS for Hebrews or Gentiles who wanted to follow Yahweh.

That was under the old covenant. The leaders of the new covenant decided at the council of Jerusalem that they would be tempting GOD if they placed that yoke upon gentiles.

 

[Josh321]

what does this mean to you?


[h=3]2 Corinthians 3:10-14[/h]King James Version (KJV)

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Thou shalt not murder is not useful in the physical realm? I honestly don't get it. If one keeps it in the intent, the Spirit, how can thy not keep it in the physical?

If you walk in the spirit, you will never murder anyone.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

why can't you get pass the old testament?

Because he has forsaken the new covenant. The old is all he has left.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I have tried to look back to the source I got this from and cannot find it as there are so many things I've read since then. I will let you know the source so IF you are really interested you can search it. I watched a teaching from Michael Rood <snip>

Thanks. That's all I need to know.

 

[Josh321]

what does this mean to you?


[h=3]Romans 8[/h]King James Version (KJV)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[h=3]Romans 8:1-10[/h]King James Version (KJV)



do you see where the fulfillment happens it happens in us THROUGH THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST THAT IS WHY HE CAME!, IF IT IS ALREADY FULFILLED IN US WHY YOU STILL TRYING TO BE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW???

 

[Josh321]

if any of you atleast.. reasonable please acknowledge the scripture that i presented to you, it doesn't make sense talking to you because you will just divert and take another direction in what i am saying..if you have any dignity in you please anwser the scriptures i just quoted

 

[Elin]

Yahchanan 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precinct and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."

1 Yahchanan 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love God your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

How many times has it been pointed out that the law of Christ is the law of love, written on the heart, which fulfills the whole law (Jn 13:34; Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10), but has no curse attached for not doing "every word" (Dt 27:26; Gal 3:10)?

Without the curse attached, it is not the law of Moses, it is a truncated law of Moses.

Why do you keep going 'round and' round this bush?

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Your points have no direction.

This text refers to those who are not born again and in whom the Holy Spirit does not dwell.

'"Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires (because there is nothing within to direct their minds otherwise); but those who live in accordance to the Spirit (the indwelling Spirit who directs their minds) have their minds set on what the Spirit desires." (Ro 8:5)

So what is your point, and how does this text apply to your point?

"WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE." (Movie: Cool Hand Luke)

The difference between Messianism and NT Christianity is that, with the Messianic, Jesus is added to their religion of Judaism.
For them, the Son does not transcend Judaism, he is subject to Judaism, which they fit him into, but Judaism always transcends and is the authority.

In NT Christianity, the Son transcends everything, he doesn't fit into anything, he is the beginning and the end, the Alpha and the Omega (Rev 22:13), the ultimate authority, for all authority in heaven and earth has been given to him (Mt 26:64, 28:18; Lk 10:22; Jn 13:3, 13). He doesn't conform to previous revelation, rather previous revelation is now to be understood in the light of his revelation (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers.

So Messianics are always trying to present the Son in accordance with their Judaism.

While NT Christians present the Son in accordance with himself, as revealed through the NT writers, and in which Son is all authority in heaven and earth.

Therefore, there will never be agreement between Messianics and NT Christians, because they do not agree on the nature of Christianity.