Pope Francis called right-wing Christian fundamentalism a sickness.
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''. Earlier that month, the Pope criticized conservative Catholics for focusing so much on abortion, same-sex marriage, and contraception.''
...a pawn of left wing liberation theology where truth takes a back seat to 'equality'.
''. Earlier that month, the Pope criticized conservative Catholics for focusing so much on abortion, same-sex marriage, and contraception.''
...a pawn of left wing liberation theology where truth takes a back seat to 'equality'.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
The Pope is not right: he's wrong. Obviously Christians who adhere to scripture regarding issues of sexual immorality, protecting unborn babies, etc... while agitating for fiscal responsibility in government, etc... are not exhibiting signs of mental illness but rather displaying a real sense of responsibility.
What an ugly thing for him to say. To make such a distorted statement reflects poor character (e.g. mental and moral qualities distinctive to that individual).
The fact you're celebrating a religious leader calling a responsible demographic mentally ill is a reflection of your own poor character David which you have displayed repeatedly since arriving at CC. Chalk this up as yet one more example.
What an ugly thing for him to say. To make such a distorted statement reflects poor character (e.g. mental and moral qualities distinctive to that individual).
The fact you're celebrating a religious leader calling a responsible demographic mentally ill is a reflection of your own poor character David which you have displayed repeatedly since arriving at CC. Chalk this up as yet one more example.
"Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
--Thomas Jefferson, Private Letter to Peter Carr (Sept. 19, 1785)
Ah yes, the first Jesuit Pope.....
But since you adhere to everything Barry Soetoro - (a.k.a Barrack Obama) says, David_1; you would have no problems with anything a Jesuit says.
No prob.
Carry on in your deluded seemingly cerebral significance.
But since you adhere to everything Barry Soetoro - (a.k.a Barrack Obama) says, David_1; you would have no problems with anything a Jesuit says.
No prob.
Carry on in your deluded seemingly cerebral significance.
A
Anonimous
Guest
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Here's the relevant passages of what the Pope said: Pope Francis: Prayer keeps us from losing faith
You're right. David, misrepresented what the Pope said by presenting it in the way he did. So the Pope did not state that "right wing Christian fundamentalism is a sickness." He never said that.
Still, the Pope is using the word ideology in a way that means doctrine and that is troubling. I don't want to put words in his mouth so I'll phrase it as a question. Is the Pope suggesting the proper balance between God's love and God's holiness be undermined and weighted toward antinomianism in these end times so the Catholic Church can maintain its political position in the world and grow?
Love is many things but it is never about empowering evil, condoning wickedness, maligning the truth, engaging in codependence, etc...
Yes Jesus loved and forgave but he always ended with, "go and sin no more."
When you really love people you tell them the truth even when they have been deceived by the devil and ensnared in serious sexual sin like homosexuality, adultery, and fornication. Jesus loves them and forgives them, but He is also holy and wants us to purify ourselves even as He is pure (1 John 3).
Let's view the passage:
"Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." 1 John 3:2-10.
John wasn't a perfect person without sin when he authored that passage but he did live a very holy life. He wasn't engaging in adultery, fornication, or homosexual acts that's for sure.
True love is compelling, inviting, healing, restoring, and overflowing with forgiveness. Yet it is simultaneously pure, uncorrupted, holy, and responsible.
Through Christ, we can experience true love even though our lives don't merit it. BUT, God is using true love to compel us toward holiness.
So the Pope is correct that Christians must not close the door to salvation to sinners simply because doing so makes us feel comfortable. He's right about that.
However, the deceiver (e.g. the devil) presents a counterfeit of acceptance of wickedness as love to the whole world which must be rejected by genuine Christians even though they themselves are imperfect and struggling toward sanctification with God's assistance.
Saint Paul excommunicated a member of the Corinthian church for blatant adultery with his father's wife to compel him to repent: 1 Corinthians 5:1–13 (NIV) - " It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: ..." - Biblia.com
Paul spoke against fornication, adultery, and homosexuality in strong language as completely unacceptable for genuine Christians.
Yet Jesus invited fornicators, adulterers, and homosexual into relationship with Himself and His body. It's clear God loves sinners while they are still sinning. He sees us all and loves us.
But it's also clear that God wants us to purify ourselves from sin in a process theologians call sanctification: http://www.theopedia.com/Sanctification
Love and sanctification. Love and purity. Love and holiness. Come in sinners and meet God. Be saved. Embark on a new life with God toward becoming more like Him.
If this is the Pope's message, he's right. Is it though?
You're right. David, misrepresented what the Pope said by presenting it in the way he did. So the Pope did not state that "right wing Christian fundamentalism is a sickness." He never said that.
Still, the Pope is using the word ideology in a way that means doctrine and that is troubling. I don't want to put words in his mouth so I'll phrase it as a question. Is the Pope suggesting the proper balance between God's love and God's holiness be undermined and weighted toward antinomianism in these end times so the Catholic Church can maintain its political position in the world and grow?
Love is many things but it is never about empowering evil, condoning wickedness, maligning the truth, engaging in codependence, etc...
Yes Jesus loved and forgave but he always ended with, "go and sin no more."
When you really love people you tell them the truth even when they have been deceived by the devil and ensnared in serious sexual sin like homosexuality, adultery, and fornication. Jesus loves them and forgives them, but He is also holy and wants us to purify ourselves even as He is pure (1 John 3).
Let's view the passage:
"Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." 1 John 3:2-10.
John wasn't a perfect person without sin when he authored that passage but he did live a very holy life. He wasn't engaging in adultery, fornication, or homosexual acts that's for sure.
True love is compelling, inviting, healing, restoring, and overflowing with forgiveness. Yet it is simultaneously pure, uncorrupted, holy, and responsible.
Through Christ, we can experience true love even though our lives don't merit it. BUT, God is using true love to compel us toward holiness.
So the Pope is correct that Christians must not close the door to salvation to sinners simply because doing so makes us feel comfortable. He's right about that.
However, the deceiver (e.g. the devil) presents a counterfeit of acceptance of wickedness as love to the whole world which must be rejected by genuine Christians even though they themselves are imperfect and struggling toward sanctification with God's assistance.
Saint Paul excommunicated a member of the Corinthian church for blatant adultery with his father's wife to compel him to repent: 1 Corinthians 5:1–13 (NIV) - " It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: ..." - Biblia.com
Paul spoke against fornication, adultery, and homosexuality in strong language as completely unacceptable for genuine Christians.
Yet Jesus invited fornicators, adulterers, and homosexual into relationship with Himself and His body. It's clear God loves sinners while they are still sinning. He sees us all and loves us.
But it's also clear that God wants us to purify ourselves from sin in a process theologians call sanctification: http://www.theopedia.com/Sanctification
Love and sanctification. Love and purity. Love and holiness. Come in sinners and meet God. Be saved. Embark on a new life with God toward becoming more like Him.
If this is the Pope's message, he's right. Is it though?
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Any fundamentalism is a sickness.
How can one size fit all when it comes to personal belief when everyone's mind is uniquely qualified to think for itself?
Faith is a personal journey, not an endeavour to adhere to some other persons commands. If a God wanted that to be my life i would have been born a typewriter.
How can one size fit all when it comes to personal belief when everyone's mind is uniquely qualified to think for itself?
Faith is a personal journey, not an endeavour to adhere to some other persons commands. If a God wanted that to be my life i would have been born a typewriter.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Fundamentalism is a belief in a set of irreducible beliefs. That's all. You can have good fundamentalism like Christians who hold to the essentials of Christianity. An example would be the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The ancient creeds provide examples.
Christianity is not Christianity without the birth, death, and resurrection of the real historical person Jesus Christ. That's a fundamental irreducible assertion of and belief in the Christian worldview.
But you can have bad fundamentalism like strict adherence to a false religious system such as Islam but also a maligned adherence to genuine irreducible beliefs such as Pharisees and Sadducees displayed in ancient Judaism or Mormonism for example.
Christianity is not Christianity without the birth, death, and resurrection of the real historical person Jesus Christ. That's a fundamental irreducible assertion of and belief in the Christian worldview.
But you can have bad fundamentalism like strict adherence to a false religious system such as Islam but also a maligned adherence to genuine irreducible beliefs such as Pharisees and Sadducees displayed in ancient Judaism or Mormonism for example.
I get what you're saying. But fundamentalist Christianity is usually more than believing in a birth, death and resurrection. It usually requires people to conform to a strict, unrealistic, narrow interpretation. There's often no wiggle room for a personal reading.
An example of a fundamentalist structure in Christianity might be that someone has to believe in a trinitarian theology or else they are deemed by that particular fundamentalist group as someone who is not christian. Even though such a theology, from my understanding of the bible, doesnt come from any irrefutible evidence. In scholarly terms it's little more than a popular interpretation of the form of God.
Until something is outrightly proven to be correct, it should at least be understood, if not warranted and widely accepted, that several interpretations can hold equal weight.
This type of fundamentalism removes a party's right to think for themselves, insofar as they have no authoratitive control in their group. The person(s) in charge, however, may be completely able to dictate the theological requirements to their subordinates. That's a military operation more than it is a genuine, well-rounded theological family.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Trinitarian doctrine is an essential of Christianity because it reveals who God is. You don't get to define who God is. God is who and what He is. Period.
The doctrine of the Trinity is not a theological concoction but one of the central planks of orthodoxy explicitly and implicitly revealed in scripture. So you're making a false assertion that it is not and we've had some legendary refutations of Oneness heresies on this forum to be sure.
Essentials of the Christian worldview aren't negotiable the way non-essentials are. Examples of the latter include a wide range of issues such as one's creation model (e.g. YEC, OEC, TE, etc...) and secondary essentials which carry no penalty.
It's fine to apply the scientific method to those as you suggest. But no scientific method is needed for the essentials of Christianity. They are irrefutably narrow in their scope as already defined and, of course, essential.
The doctrine of the Trinity is not a theological concoction but one of the central planks of orthodoxy explicitly and implicitly revealed in scripture. So you're making a false assertion that it is not and we've had some legendary refutations of Oneness heresies on this forum to be sure.
Essentials of the Christian worldview aren't negotiable the way non-essentials are. Examples of the latter include a wide range of issues such as one's creation model (e.g. YEC, OEC, TE, etc...) and secondary essentials which carry no penalty.
It's fine to apply the scientific method to those as you suggest. But no scientific method is needed for the essentials of Christianity. They are irrefutably narrow in their scope as already defined and, of course, essential.
Even if I agreed with the popes opinion his words mean nothing. The pope isn't my God. It's the Catholics who worship him. Not Christians.
A
Anonimous
Guest
Pope Francis spoke out against ideologues, those who turn Christianity into an ideology instead of a relationship with Christ. That's the sickness that exists within the Church.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Yes BUT a right ideology is both necessary and desirable for a right relationship with Christ.
Let's use an example. Say a murderer accepts Christ and becomes a Christian but asserts that prejudice against the act of murder is a sickness ideologues engage in so he's going to be a Christian murderer. See the problem.
Let's use an example. Say a murderer accepts Christ and becomes a Christian but asserts that prejudice against the act of murder is a sickness ideologues engage in so he's going to be a Christian murderer. See the problem.
What personally saddens me is how the Pope has taken the modern approach of classifying an opposing political viewpoint as a sign of mental sickness as opposed to being morally corrupt or confused.
For a man who is supposed to stand for the eternal order of things, he makes a poor showing. But then so do most leaders tasked with that charge today.
For a man who is supposed to stand for the eternal order of things, he makes a poor showing. But then so do most leaders tasked with that charge today.
Strange he would say this, coming from South America. The evangelical church is very active in helping people there. Only this morning in church we had a missionary to Brazil that we support, speak on the orphanages he has established and about how to donate to orphans.
I had heard the pope had a good relationship with evangelicals.
And most puzzling was his comment on not saying memorized prayers. I thought the Rosary was the whole basis of Catholic prayer??
I wonder how out of context these latest remarks are. The last one on him condemning Catholics for opposing abortion and birth control, turned out to be totally out of context.
I personally don't get the Catholic Church and their lies and bad theology. They could just read the Bible and find out the truth. But I have to wonder if there is a smear campaign against Pope Francis? It could even come from within the Catholic Church.
It's a hard world to be a demi-god in these days, for sure!
I had heard the pope had a good relationship with evangelicals.
And most puzzling was his comment on not saying memorized prayers. I thought the Rosary was the whole basis of Catholic prayer??
I wonder how out of context these latest remarks are. The last one on him condemning Catholics for opposing abortion and birth control, turned out to be totally out of context.
I personally don't get the Catholic Church and their lies and bad theology. They could just read the Bible and find out the truth. But I have to wonder if there is a smear campaign against Pope Francis? It could even come from within the Catholic Church.
It's a hard world to be a demi-god in these days, for sure!