What is the COVENANT of Daniel 9:27?

[GRA]

Daniel 9:

[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

eternally-gratefull:

The following list of phrases, taken from the above quoted verses, is listed in chronological order of fulfillment of the events associated with each phrase:

and to anoint the most Holy

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself

to finish the transgression

and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate ( even until the consummation )

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined

and to seal up the vision and prophecy

( I left the 'consummation' phrase where it is because it is an "extension" of the phrase in front of it. )

The 'abominations' phrase is the "decree" that brings about the line that follows it.

A similar association exists for the next two lines.

You absolutely must learn that Biblical prophesy is not written in a verse-by-verse, phrase-by-phrase, chronological order. Just because something comes first in a passage of scripture - does not make it first chronologically.

You must pay attention to the "grammar of the language" --- it is the key thing that will help you understand what a passage of scripture is actually saying... ( or not saying )

"Just sayin'..."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so the 69 weeks were actual period of 7 years, but the last week is a super-long week.
or hasn't happened yet.

the period was 490 years.
why didn't God say a really really long time?

He said 490 years.
He didn't say there was a gap.

Titus was the prince.
done

i'd love to post the 70AD pic, but i'll be ridiculed.

read about it here:

Siege of Jerusalem (70) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

lol.. The last week is seven years. You know I believe this. so do not try to twist what I believe into something different.

And yes, He did show a gap.

1. A gap between the cutting off of messiah and the destruction of jerusalem
2. The gap between the destruction of Jerusalem. and the time allowed for wars and desolation to continue (or as Jesus said, Wars and rumors of wars. nations rising against nation, kingdom against kingdom)

Even Jesus itterated the meaning of the gap. When he entered jerusalem, and admitted he came wanting to wrap them in his arms, but they were unwilling, thus it was hidden from them.

Paul mentions this same blindness in romans 11. But paul makes sure we all know of the mystery (which was now revealed) that blindness has happened in part until a predetermined time. At which time (the end of the 70 weeks) ALL ISREAL WILL BE SAVED. Thus the fulfilment of the 70 weeks.

The mystery is that the 70th did not immediately follow the first 69. What other mystery could there be?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

both kingdoms were present during Christ's First Advent.

they were not restored. Nor where they in their land, The northing kingdom was inhabited by the samaritans. Who were not even considered part of Israel.

And funny of you to ignore everything which was told about them. I guess we spiritualise those things also?

Why can;t you take anything literally?

we've been through this. the prophets make it clear - representatives of; members from all tribes; ALL Israel (the remnant who returned) were in the Land when Jesus came.

lol. They were not a united kingdom. They did not have 1 king. They were (and remained) slaves of a gentile beast of daniel.

You ignore that the restoration occures AFTER the beasts are destroyed.

the northern kingdom is not LOST.

Jesus came for them...and found them.

right?

Yep. And they rejected him, just like the southern kingdom did. And because of it. Isreal as a land was destroyed, and ALL peoples were driven throughout the word. Which they will remain until they repent, and Christ returns them/.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

eternally-gratefull:

The following list of phrases, taken from the above quoted verses, is listed in chronological order of fulfillment of the events associated with each phrase:

and to anoint the most Holy

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself

to finish the transgression

and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate ( even until the consummation )

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined

and to seal up the vision and prophecy

( I left the 'consummation' phrase where it is because it is an "extension" of the phrase in front of it. )

The 'abominations' phrase is the "decree" that brings about the line that follows it.

A similar association exists for the next two lines.

You absolutely must learn that Biblical prophesy is not written in a verse-by-verse, phrase-by-phrase, chronological order. Just because something comes first in a passage of scripture - does not make it first chronologically.

You must pay attention to the "grammar of the language" --- it is the key thing that will help you understand what a passage of scripture is actually saying... ( or not saying )

"Just sayin'..."

You totally destroyed the timing of the events. And tried to make them come in different than they actually were.


He which commits the abomination is the he who stops sacrifice and offering.

YOU CAN NOT OFFER SACRIFICE IN A PLACE WHICH IS MADE UNCLEAN BY THE ABOMINATION.

Put yourself in Daniels shoes. What would he have thought? How would he have interprete3d what an abomination of desolation was?

Why did Daniel write about two little horns. Both of which abominate the temple? One from greece. and one from a partiulcar roman empire who ruled the whole earth, in which every nation tribe and tongue worshiped him as th ebeast (the origional roman empire can not make this claim)

 

[GRA]

17 Minutes Ago - post #341 - my last post
11 Minutes Ago - post #342 - your reply with reference to one of zone's posts
7 Minutes Ago - post #343 - your reply with reference to one of zone's posts
3 Minutes Ago - post #344 - your reply with reference to my last post

I see that you took a maximum of 14 minutes to look at my post...

"Oh, but - some of that time had to be taken up in the writing of two other posts..."

So - it is likely that you only looked at it for 4 minutes at the most...

"Oh, but - some of that time had to be taken up in the writing of the last post..."

So - it is likely that you looked at it for considerably less than 4 minutes...

( "not enough time -- keep looking at it" )

You totally destroyed the timing of the events. And tried to make them come in different than they actually were.

NOPE - "I assure you, it is corrrect..."

He which commits the abomination is the he who stops sacrifice and offering.

NOPE - that is not true -- the word 'abominations' in verse 27 is not talking about the Abomination of Desolation --- it is talking about the [ multiple ] abominations ( by the Jews and others ) concerning sacrifices in the temple after the sacrifice of Christ on the cross.

YOU CAN NOT OFFER SACRIFICE IN A PLACE WHICH IS MADE UNCLEAN BY THE ABOMINATION.

EXACTLY --- true statement, but - made out of context --- see last comment above...

Put yourself in Daniels shoes. What would he have thought? How would he have interprete3d what an abomination of desolation was?

See previous two comments...

Why did Daniel write about two little horns. Both of which abominate the temple? One from greece. and one from a partiulcar roman empire who ruled the whole earth, in which every nation tribe and tongue worshiped him as th ebeast (the origional roman empire can not make this claim)

This would take more time than I have right now...

 

[PennEd]

I've often wondered how the anti-christ was gonna have the muslims onboard. Well here is a very interesting supposition explaining how.

[video=youtube;5fE4beY8LjU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fE4beY8LjU&list=PL82D6C04980BBD65A&index= 1[/video]

 

[zone]

You absolutely must learn that Biblical prophesy is not written in a verse-by-verse, phrase-by-phrase, chronological order. Just because something comes first in a passage of scripture - does not make it first chronologically.

eyup.
now if we could just see how that is true of the great Rev 20 chapter, we'd be doing well.

 

[zone]

In the next verse it is still talking about the prince to come and that he will spread abominations on earth and that is because he is a nature worshipper that believes in tapping in to nature for power,which the Bible says he will cause craft,or witchcraft,to prosper in his hands,which during the beast system his kingdom will be all about man with no governmental or religious authority above them and man can tap in to nature for power.

Because he will spread this witchcraft and nature worship ways throughout the earth God will put down their kingdom.

This 7 years have not happened yet for the world has never come together as the beast system in Revelation.

you're mixing up bad guys and skipping over some.

this was Antiochus Epiphanes.

Daniel 8
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

the prince of Daniel 9 is Titus.

 

[zone]

1. Israel will be completely restored. Northern and southern kingdom
2. Israel will no longer be commiting her abomination and playing the harlot
3. Israel will not longer be commiting her transgressions against God
4. Israel will have "put an end to her sin"

wow. you have ISRAEL doing all that for themselves.
how, pray tell?

if you can't put an end to your own sin, how could they?

THAT IS ALL about their release from Babylon and return home to build, and be there in time for JESUS - WHO accomplished all that - FOR THEM....and us.

to finish the transgression
to make an end of sin
to make atonement for iniquity
to bring in everlasting righteousness
to seal up vision and prophecy
and to anoint the most holy

if some rejected Him, what does that have to do with GOD'S WORD AND PROMISE?
other than His OWN warnings foretold it. ONLY a remnant would be saved.

Luke 2:34
And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed

James said they WERE restored.
now i'll repost again the scriptures that prove the 10 tribes WERE there when Jesus came.
if they weren't HE FAILED.

He said that's who He came for.

 

[watcher2013]

It makes me wonder why people like you get so angry you have to resort to low blows and attacks? are you so insecure in your belief you have nothing better to do? Either way, All this does for people like me is go further from your belief.

I am not angry with you or any of your responses...
sorry if that offended you, but I just expressed what I have observed...
the way you respond to "katy-follower" and just the way you defend your belief.
Your belief mostly rely on talks... (you talk/type too much, lacking scriptural support)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

wow. you have ISRAEL doing all that for themselves.
how, pray tell?

The way God said it would happen.


[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved,[SUP][g][/SUP] as it is written:“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

You should stop assuming so much. The OT says God will do it. (I have posted so many OT prophesies concerning this so many times.) And here Paul confirmed God would do it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

17 Minutes Ago - post #341 - my last post
11 Minutes Ago - post #342 - your reply with reference to one of zone's posts
7 Minutes Ago - post #343 - your reply with reference to one of zone's posts
3 Minutes Ago - post #344 - your reply with reference to my last post

I see that you took a maximum of 14 minutes to look at my post...

"Oh, but - some of that time had to be taken up in the writing of two other posts..."

So - it is likely that you only looked at it for 4 minutes at the most...

"Oh, but - some of that time had to be taken up in the writing of the last post..."

So - it is likely that you looked at it for considerably less than 4 minutes...

( "not enough time -- keep looking at it" )



NOPE - "I assure you, it is corrrect..."



NOPE - that is not true -- the word 'abominations' in verse 27 is not talking about the Abomination of Desolation --- it is talking about the [ multiple ] abominations ( by the Jews and others ) concerning sacrifices in the temple after the sacrifice of Christ on the cross.



EXACTLY --- true statement, but - made out of context --- see last comment above...



See previous two comments...



This would take more time than I have right now...

1st off. I have read so many of your posts. And seen so many say the EXACT same thing you try to say. I do not have to read it all. I am also a fast reader. I noticed how you tried to take only certain aspects of both verses and put them together. It did not take along time to read it.

As for your one post of abomination.

1. Jesus refers to it.
2. He calls it the abomination which makes desolate.
3. He makes it a one time event.

so forgive me if I chose to trust Jesus' interpretation over yours.

again, I am not going to twist what daniel said in order to make my belief come real.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not angry with you or any of your responses...
sorry if that offended you, but I just expressed what I have observed...
the way you respond to "katy-follower" and just the way you defend your belief.
Your belief mostly rely on talks... (you talk/type too much, lacking scriptural support)

1. I am not defending my beliefs. They do not need defended.
2. I am stating my beliefs.
3. I am showing you WHY I can not come to belief as you do.

again, you should stop assuming so much. I have studied this for well over 30 years, Not one person in this chat room over the past close to two years have shown me anything I have not read, Have not heard, or have not been taught before.

 

[watcher2013]

No, I can not consider this.

Daniel FIRST spoke of the destruction of the temple and city. The abomination he spoke of occured AFTER the destruction.

order of events.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

The is the first order of events.

1. The destruction
2. The city and temple left desolate until a time determined.


[SUP]27 [/SUP]Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”


These events occure AFTER the wars and desolations are determined. Not at the same time.

Your time line is off, and I can not in good faith twist it to make it be the same.

How long was the destruction up to the second event?
Daniel prophesied about the taking away of daily sacrifice? was the daily sacrifices taken away when the sanctuary was destroyed?

would you agree that the daily sacrifices was taken away when the roman destroyed the temple in 70AD?

1. Luke did not in any way think this. this is just your opinion.
2. Luke understood jesus was talking about the "end" In fact he tells us many thing must come to place first. but even then the end is not near. What are these things??

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore[SUP][b][/SUP] do not go after them. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately.”
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.

As you see. Before these things take place. Nations will rise against nations. Kingdoms will rise against kingdoms.

On the contrary, the original discussion really was about the destruction of the temple:

Luk 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how itwas adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, v6 Asfor these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shallnot be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and whatsign will there be when these things shall come to pass?


Mar 13:2 And Jesusanswering said unto him, Seest thouthese great buildings? thereshall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.v3 And as he sat upon the mount ofOlives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked himprivately, v4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and whatshall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

NOT ONLY LUKE, BUT ALSO MATTHEW AND MARK....

Daniel speaks of the destruction of the sanctuary and the abomination:
While Matthew, Mark and Luke write about the destruction of temple and the abomination relating to the besieging of Jerusalem/destruction.

However It did not stop there...in response to their another question Jesus also foretold signs of His coming:

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. v2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. v3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus first gave the sign for the destruction of the temple up to the scattering into all nations until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled: (occurred in 70AD)
Luk 21:20 And when yeshall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolationthereof is nigh….

v24 And they shallfall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations:and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentilesbe fulfilled.

Then the Sign of His coming, (which is still future)
Luk 21:27 And thenshall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

so 70 AD can't be it. It was just the begining of the things Jesus said would happen. not the end.

70 AD was the abomination of Desolation...His coming is still Future

Yes, the desolation of the city has been up till 1948, But it is still desolate. Islam has deolated the city, and is still desolating the city. The end of desolations is still in effect. Thus the end is not near.

The Children of Israel began to lived in their Land in 1948:

Eze 36:10 And I willmultiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the citiesshall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

Eze 36:34 And thedesolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all thatpassed by. v35 And they shall say, Thisland that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste anddesolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

No, your the one who has a lack of understanding. The protection God promised was for all of them. How many jews died at the hand of the third riech of germany? According to rev 12. The woam will be completely protected. Not partially.

Look how Satan makes war with the Remnant:
Rev 12:17 And thedragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of herseed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of JesusChrist.

Even if millions of Jews were killed during the WW2, still God protected the remnant of Israel. In fact the Nation Israel was born after that War...

The abomination did not happen in 70 AD. Or else the return of Christ would have already occured. Unless you want to believe Jesus commited the abomination, Because the prince is the one who commits the abomination.

if this prince is Christ. then how and when did he abominate the temple?

But you do not want to see this

When the disciples ask the Lord, When these things be (Destruction of the temple) in Matthew, Mark and Luke.....The Lord gave signs and relate this to the abomination spoken of Daniel.
Daniel 9:26-27 spoke of the Destruction of City and the sanctuary and the taking away of Daily sacrifices ,abomination and desolation.
and indeed the temple was destroyed in AD70, the daily sacrifices taken away (literally).
The Roman army pollute the sanctuary and destroyed it.

The Lord also gave signs of His coming:
The Return of Christ is still future

 

[VCO]

God temporarily set aside Israel as His chosen people. They are His ancient earthly people today but not His chosen people.

During the present age, God has a new people—the church.

This Church Age forms a parenthesis in God's dealings with Israel.

When the parenthesis is closed, that is, when the church is caught away to heaven, God will resume His dealings with Israel.

Then a believing portion of the nation will become God's people again.


.....


uh....no.
there is nothing like that in the Bible whatsoever.
nothing.

t t t

Oh yes it is all over the Bible, you just missed it, or perhaps you have been asking yourself the WRONG questions.
For example:

Where does OUR CITIZENSHIP LIE, here on Earth or in Heaven?

Are the Jews His Chosen Nation here on Earth or in Heaven?

Jesus promised that HE was going to prepare a place for us; WHERE, here on Earth or in Heaven?

When HE seals the 144,000 what Nationality are the ALL FROM?

When they are sealed in their mortal bodies, so that no harm comes to them during the Tribulation; are they sealed to remain here on earth during HIS EARTHLY KINGDOM, or to go to Heaven?

{Remember flesh and blood will not go to heaven, which is why ALL CHRISTIANS will have their mortal bodies CHANGED in the twinking of an eye. But those 144,000 Jews are sealed in their MORTAL bodies, while ours will already have been changed to an IMMORTAL body.}

How many Unbelievers survive in their Earthly mortal bodies, when Christ comes back as KING of kings? The answer is in: Rev. 19:21.

From which Earthly Nation are ALL of the mortal Survivors of the Second Coming from?

WHOSE THRONE does Jesus Christ take a seat on at the Beginning of His Earthly Kingdom?

The Throne of David is the Kingship of which earthly Nation?

Who will be His earthly (NOT HEAVENLY) chosen Nation that HE SITS AS KING OVER?

How long will those Mortals who are the royal earthly subjects live? A strong HINT is in Isa. 65:10.

Philippians 3:20-21 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;
[SUP]21 [/SUP] who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

We are HIS Ambassadors, and HE will someday, perhaps SOON, call us to Come HOME!

Revelation 22:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

 

[GRA]

I have studied this for well over 30 years, Not one person in this chat room over the past close to two years have shown me anything I have not read, Have not heard, or have not been taught before.

"I could probably say the same thing..."

Except -- I was once in the place you are now ( are still in ) - believing the whole "pre-trib rapture, 70th-week-of-Daniel-is-a-7-year-tribulation" teaching.

Until -- I put aside all that I had learned ( and assumed ) in order to obtain a proper understanding of what the scriptures were actually saying.

I discovered that I had been taught error by men who had the best of intentions...

"Don't worry about it --- some time between now and Judgment Day, you will understand..."

( "Although, sooner would be better than later..." )

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How long was the destruction up to the second event?

It is stated in the passage

The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

In other words. An unknown time

Again, Jesus mentions this. There will be wars and rumors of wars. Nation will rise, and kingdoms will rise. But the end is not yet.

Daniel prophesied about the taking away of daily sacrifice? was the daily sacrifices taken away when the sanctuary was destroyed?

1. Thank you for showing this was not jesus.
2. Yes. But this was infered by the first destruction of the temple in vs 26. So how in vs 27 was the abomination commited with no temple?

Again, vs 27 follows vs 26. Not like someone tried to say earlier, that they were both at the same time just reiterated or whatever they are saying.

Unlike in other places. Gabriel is showing in progression what will happen, to explain the 70 weeks. And again, Jesus uses the same progression in his message of matt 24

would you agree that the daily sacrifices was taken away when the roman destroyed the temple in 70AD?

yes I would. Would you agree that if these sacrifices are started again (which we are on the verge of seeing happen again) that this could be what gabriel was talking about?

On the contrary, the original discussion really was about the destruction of the temple:

Luk 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how itwas adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, v6 Asfor these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shallnot be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and whatsign will there be when these things shall come to pass?


Mar 13:2 And Jesusanswering said unto him, Seest thouthese great buildings? thereshall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.v3 And as he sat upon the mount ofOlives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked himprivately, v4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and whatshall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

NOT ONLY LUKE, BUT ALSO MATTHEW AND MARK....

On the contrary. Funny how you did not post matthews version of the same events. Just because luke did not say the complete conversation does not mean it was not said.


[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?

You tried to be tricky, Shame Shame

Daniel speaks of the destruction of the sanctuary and the abomination:
While Matthew, Mark and Luke write about the destruction of temple and the abomination relating to the besieging of Jerusalem/destruction.

No. Daniel spoke of the destruction, and many events leading to the end, Including the abomination.

Mathew shows where the disciples understood this. By asking him when the destruction would be, And when the events would be which would show we are comming to the end (followed by the return of Christ.)

However It did not stop there...in response to their another question Jesus also foretold signs of His coming:

Yep. Which would immediately follow the great tribulation, Which immediately follows the abomination. The fact Jesus has not returned yet. The fact the great tribulation has not occured yet. Shows the abomination (which starts the events of the tribulation, as shown by Christ's warning to all in judea to flee) has not yet happened./

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. v2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. v3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus first gave the sign for the destruction of the temple up to the scattering into all nations until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled: (occurred in 70AD)

lol. So the gentiles were fulfilled in 70 AD? wow where did you get this? the gentiles have ruled jerusalem since the babylonians, and they still technically do. So their age is not yet complete. But thanks

 

[watcher2013]

t t t


AND NOW . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . You know the rest of the the Story.

Is the Church, exclusive for gentiles only?

Paul, Peter, James, John were they not from the tribes of Israel?

Church in Smyrna
Rev 2:9 I know thyworks, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know theblasphemy of them which say they areJews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Church inPhiladelphia
Rev 3:9 Behold, Iwill make them of the synagogue of Satan, whichsay they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them tocome and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

The Story is all about them... be thankful that we are grafted.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"I could probably say the same thing..."

Except -- I was once in the place you are now ( are still in ) - believing the whole "pre-trib rapture, 70th-week-of-Daniel-is-a-7-year-tribulation" teaching.

No your not. Because i am not a pre-trib rapture advocate.. so you should think before you speak. (I used to be but am not so sure now)

And no daniel 9 is not a pretrib rapture event. It is not even used to prove pre-trib from what I have seen and remember.

Until -- I put aside all that I had learned ( and assumed ) in order to obtain a proper understanding of what the scriptures were actually saying.

I discovered that I had been taught error by men who had the best of intentions...

I have discovered the same in many areas. Some even in this area. But if anything, in my studies (and even talking you you guys) my belief is strengthened. Because you keep making me think. And keep showing me the things I believe are true..

 

[watcher2013]

1. I am not defending my beliefs. They do not need defended.
2. I am stating my beliefs.
3. I am showing you WHY I can not come to belief as you do.

again, you should stop assuming so much. I have studied this for well over 30 years, Not one person in this chat room over the past close to two years have shown me anything I have not read, Have not heard, or have not been taught before.

Wow 30 years:

A harden clay is difficult to fashion.