Problems with the Missouri Synod Lutheran Chrurch.
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oh my.
an outward show of faith TO WHOM?
GOD? what on earth FOR? did Ananias need evidence paul was showing his faith? did God?
please show me ANYWHERE: "water baptism is an outward show of inward faith" < ANYWHERE.
you are NOT going to find it.
...
"water baptism is an outward show of inward faith"...Kerry, where, anywhere, will you show me this definition of baptism: an outward show...
SHOW? a show?....what does THAT mean?
"The baptism that Paul teaches has nothing to do with water."
was the baptism Paul taught DIFFERENT from the baptism Jesus and the Jewish apostles taught?
did Jesus, or did He not, command men to be baptized in WATER.
just yes, or no.
??????????
if not, you BETTER NOT BE DOING IT.
are you actually suggesting to me that the OT sacrificial system was designed to be AN OUTWARD show of faith, on the part of MEN, to God?
are you really saying God established the temple system....all the animal sacrifices....SO THAT men would have a way of SHOWING OUTWARDLY their FAITH?
man, i can not wait to hear your answer.....how many BAPTISMS did PAUL say there are?
an outward show of faith TO WHOM?
GOD? what on earth FOR? did Ananias need evidence paul was showing his faith? did God?
please show me ANYWHERE: "water baptism is an outward show of inward faith" < ANYWHERE.
you are NOT going to find it.
...
"water baptism is an outward show of inward faith"...Kerry, where, anywhere, will you show me this definition of baptism: an outward show...
SHOW? a show?....what does THAT mean?
"The baptism that Paul teaches has nothing to do with water."
was the baptism Paul taught DIFFERENT from the baptism Jesus and the Jewish apostles taught?
did Jesus, or did He not, command men to be baptized in WATER.
just yes, or no.
??????????
if not, you BETTER NOT BE DOING IT.
are you actually suggesting to me that the OT sacrificial system was designed to be AN OUTWARD show of faith, on the part of MEN, to God?
are you really saying God established the temple system....all the animal sacrifices....SO THAT men would have a way of SHOWING OUTWARDLY their FAITH?
man, i can not wait to hear your answer.....how many BAPTISMS did PAUL say there are?
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B
Zone, the Lutherans believe in baptismal regeneration and you must follow their doctrine. Here is a testimony of a former Lutheran, Mr.Peterson, who states the reason why he left the Lutheran church.
"Some sincere and well-meaning friends cannot understand why I left the Lutheran church. They honestly feel that I should have remained in the church and worked there. I want to assure all my Lutheran friends that my love for them has not changed, but rather grown because of the separation. My reason for leaving the church was that the constitutions of all Lutheran congregations require one to believe in Baptismal Regeneration. They regard it as a basic doctrine, so no one can be a consistent Lutheran and not believe in Baptismal Regeneration. If you know in your heart that you do not believe so, then to be true to the constitution and your own heart, you should at once do as God tells you. All Lutheran congregations are basically built on Baptismal Regeneration. It is the central pillar of the church. Therein you are solemnly declared, by the laying of the hands, to be born again; therein is heaven's door opened to you; therein you are grafted into the body of Christ; therein your sins are forgiven; therein you receive Life Eternal. This is what you are taught to believe. Naturally if you do not believe it you should repudiate such teaching by leaving the organization that stands for it.
After long and careful study I came to the conclusion that there was no saving power in baptism. You will, therefore, understand that I would have had to play the part of a hypocrite had I remained in the church. I would have had to confess with my mouth what I did not believe in my heart. There was no choice. No matter how hard the separation, or how great the cost, it had to be done. I wish to assure the Lutheran people that my separation from them is only technical. At heart I love them more than ever. The cost of the separation, which meant the loss of all things, should prove my love. God's Word convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Baptismal Regeneration was not a Bible teaching, but an idol. Thus there was no course open to me but to deal with it as an idol.
Dare any man say that these men did not love their people when they broke down their idols? Can any man say that they did not perform a much needed labor at a great personal sacrifice? There is no other way open to those who would follow God's command. Beyond dispute then, it is the duty of men in responsible positions, not to fraternize with people's idols, but to break them down and throw them away. Many honest people in the days of Gideon were not even aware that they were serving idols, but when they saw Gideon break them down they woke up and left the idols. What suffering it must have caused Moses to order his own people slain because they served idols. "Put ye every man his sword upon his thigh . . . and slay every man his brother and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor . . . and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men."
No man can accuse these men of not loving their people. True it was not this wishy-washy thing we call love now-a-days, the principle characteristic of which is to compromise with evil in order to keep peace. True love involves stern sacrifice and not sickly compromise. True love means great suffering: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." Any man who is called upon to break down idols will soon find that he must lay down his life for his fellow-men. Yes, ere he realizes it, he will find himself wading waist deep in blood and tears of human misery. He will discover as never before that lie is fighting principalities and powers in heavenly places. This drew both blood and tears from Jesus. Will it draw less from us?"
[This book, Baptismal Regeneration, provides a solid refutation of the false doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration. The book is copyrighted; however, it is out of print and the copyright is over 50 years old. "Some say, why stir up trouble about a question of such minor importance as Baptismal Regeneration. Is a so-called door to heaven a small issue? Spurgeon says, 'For of all lies which have dragged millions down to hell, I look upon this (Baptismal Regeneration) as being the most atrocious.' ..What must I do to be saved?... the answer shall be Not Through a Legalistic System of Water and Works, but through a genuine new birth, wrought in the sinner's heart by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God. V.L Petersen, 1947]
Here's the link: False Teaching - Baptismal Regeneration Chapter 4-False Teaching - Pagan Babylon and Not the Bible Is the True Source of Baptismal Regeneration
"Some sincere and well-meaning friends cannot understand why I left the Lutheran church. They honestly feel that I should have remained in the church and worked there. I want to assure all my Lutheran friends that my love for them has not changed, but rather grown because of the separation. My reason for leaving the church was that the constitutions of all Lutheran congregations require one to believe in Baptismal Regeneration. They regard it as a basic doctrine, so no one can be a consistent Lutheran and not believe in Baptismal Regeneration. If you know in your heart that you do not believe so, then to be true to the constitution and your own heart, you should at once do as God tells you. All Lutheran congregations are basically built on Baptismal Regeneration. It is the central pillar of the church. Therein you are solemnly declared, by the laying of the hands, to be born again; therein is heaven's door opened to you; therein you are grafted into the body of Christ; therein your sins are forgiven; therein you receive Life Eternal. This is what you are taught to believe. Naturally if you do not believe it you should repudiate such teaching by leaving the organization that stands for it.
After long and careful study I came to the conclusion that there was no saving power in baptism. You will, therefore, understand that I would have had to play the part of a hypocrite had I remained in the church. I would have had to confess with my mouth what I did not believe in my heart. There was no choice. No matter how hard the separation, or how great the cost, it had to be done. I wish to assure the Lutheran people that my separation from them is only technical. At heart I love them more than ever. The cost of the separation, which meant the loss of all things, should prove my love. God's Word convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Baptismal Regeneration was not a Bible teaching, but an idol. Thus there was no course open to me but to deal with it as an idol.
Dare any man say that these men did not love their people when they broke down their idols? Can any man say that they did not perform a much needed labor at a great personal sacrifice? There is no other way open to those who would follow God's command. Beyond dispute then, it is the duty of men in responsible positions, not to fraternize with people's idols, but to break them down and throw them away. Many honest people in the days of Gideon were not even aware that they were serving idols, but when they saw Gideon break them down they woke up and left the idols. What suffering it must have caused Moses to order his own people slain because they served idols. "Put ye every man his sword upon his thigh . . . and slay every man his brother and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor . . . and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men."
No man can accuse these men of not loving their people. True it was not this wishy-washy thing we call love now-a-days, the principle characteristic of which is to compromise with evil in order to keep peace. True love involves stern sacrifice and not sickly compromise. True love means great suffering: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." Any man who is called upon to break down idols will soon find that he must lay down his life for his fellow-men. Yes, ere he realizes it, he will find himself wading waist deep in blood and tears of human misery. He will discover as never before that lie is fighting principalities and powers in heavenly places. This drew both blood and tears from Jesus. Will it draw less from us?"
[This book, Baptismal Regeneration, provides a solid refutation of the false doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration. The book is copyrighted; however, it is out of print and the copyright is over 50 years old. "Some say, why stir up trouble about a question of such minor importance as Baptismal Regeneration. Is a so-called door to heaven a small issue? Spurgeon says, 'For of all lies which have dragged millions down to hell, I look upon this (Baptismal Regeneration) as being the most atrocious.' ..What must I do to be saved?... the answer shall be Not Through a Legalistic System of Water and Works, but through a genuine new birth, wrought in the sinner's heart by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God. V.L Petersen, 1947]
Here's the link: False Teaching - Baptismal Regeneration Chapter 4-False Teaching - Pagan Babylon and Not the Bible Is the True Source of Baptismal Regeneration
Eph 2:8-10 For by grace are you saved through faith. No water. Salvation is a simple work of God's grace. Water baptism along with the Lords supper (communion) is a work of obedience to the Lord. One participates in these ordinances of the body of Christ (church) because of the work of Gods grace done in our heart. There is no salvitic merit in water baptism or the communion elements.
God Who inhabits eternity resides in the contrite heart. Isaiah 57:17
For the cause of Christ
Roger
God Who inhabits eternity resides in the contrite heart. Isaiah 57:17
For the cause of Christ
Roger
two dispensationalists back to back.
paul taught a different gospel than the apostles to the jews - right?
1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you - Online Bible Study Tools < click
water is water.
God working is GOD WORKING....you have ONE baptism taught by Paul.
the onus is on you (dispensationalists) to show that God had a "thorough-going change of plans" between what Peter preached to Israel and what Paul taught to Gentiles.
notice what Peter says baptism IS NOT.
and what he says it actually IS.
1 Peter 3:21 TYN
Tyndale
which signifieth baptim that now saveth vs not ye puttinge awaye of ye filth of the flesshe but in that a good conscience consenteth to God by ye resurreccio of Iesus Christ
Read 1 Peter 3 TYN | Read 1 Peter 3:21 TYN in parallel
1 Peter 3:21 WNT
Weymouth New Testament
And, corresponding to that figure, the water of baptism now saves you--not the washing off of material defilement, but the craving of a good conscience after God--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Read 1 Peter 3 WNT | Read 1 Peter 3:21 WNT in parallel
1 Peter 3:21 WEB
World English Bible
This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you - not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Read 1 Peter 3 WEB | Read 1 Peter 3:21 WEB in parallel
1 Peter 3:21 WYC
Wycliffe
And so baptism of like form maketh us safe [The which thing and baptism of like form maketh us safe]; not the putting away of the filths of flesh, but the asking of a good conscience in God, by the again-rising of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Read 1 Peter 3 WYC | Read 1 Peter 3:21 WYC in parallel
1 Peter 3:21 YLT
Young's Literal Translation
also to which an antitype doth now save us -- baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ,
Read 1 Peter 3 YLT | Read 1 Peter 3:21 YLT in parallel
this has nothing to do with getting WET, it has to do with what GOD ordained.
ONE BAPTISM - through the rising again of Jesus Christ
you need to show where there are TWO separate baptisms.
Mark 16
15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned...
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
you have JESUS; john & peter talking about belief.
what did Jesus say would be a direct result of believing the Gospel message?
Acts 16
The Conversion of Lydia
11So, setting sail from Troas, we made a direct voyage to Samothrace, and the following day to Neapolis, 12and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of thed district of Macedonia and a Roman colony. We remained in this city some days. 13And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. 14One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. 15And after she was baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.
well....we are deep into the book of Acts.
way past your MID-ACTS DISPENSATION Mystery Gentile Church Age Gap....and the Lord is working through PAUL.
paul taught a different gospel than the apostles to the jews - right?
1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you - Online Bible Study Tools < click
water is water.
God working is GOD WORKING....you have ONE baptism taught by Paul.
the onus is on you (dispensationalists) to show that God had a "thorough-going change of plans" between what Peter preached to Israel and what Paul taught to Gentiles.
notice what Peter says baptism IS NOT.
and what he says it actually IS.
1 Peter 3:21 TYN
Tyndale
which signifieth baptim that now saveth vs not ye puttinge awaye of ye filth of the flesshe but in that a good conscience consenteth to God by ye resurreccio of Iesus Christ
Read 1 Peter 3 TYN | Read 1 Peter 3:21 TYN in parallel
1 Peter 3:21 WNT
Weymouth New Testament
And, corresponding to that figure, the water of baptism now saves you--not the washing off of material defilement, but the craving of a good conscience after God--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Read 1 Peter 3 WNT | Read 1 Peter 3:21 WNT in parallel
1 Peter 3:21 WEB
World English Bible
This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you - not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Read 1 Peter 3 WEB | Read 1 Peter 3:21 WEB in parallel
1 Peter 3:21 WYC
Wycliffe
And so baptism of like form maketh us safe [The which thing and baptism of like form maketh us safe]; not the putting away of the filths of flesh, but the asking of a good conscience in God, by the again-rising of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Read 1 Peter 3 WYC | Read 1 Peter 3:21 WYC in parallel
1 Peter 3:21 YLT
Young's Literal Translation
also to which an antitype doth now save us -- baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ,
Read 1 Peter 3 YLT | Read 1 Peter 3:21 YLT in parallel
this has nothing to do with getting WET, it has to do with what GOD ordained.
ONE BAPTISM - through the rising again of Jesus Christ
you need to show where there are TWO separate baptisms.
Mark 16
15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned...
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
you have JESUS; john & peter talking about belief.
what did Jesus say would be a direct result of believing the Gospel message?
Acts 16
The Conversion of Lydia
11So, setting sail from Troas, we made a direct voyage to Samothrace, and the following day to Neapolis, 12and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of thed district of Macedonia and a Roman colony. We remained in this city some days. 13And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. 14One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. 15And after she was baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.
well....we are deep into the book of Acts.
way past your MID-ACTS DISPENSATION Mystery Gentile Church Age Gap....and the Lord is working through PAUL.
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Luke 7
28"I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." 29When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God's justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.
Matthew 21:31
"Which of the two did what his father wanted?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.
Matthew 21:32
For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
...
could someone show me where Jesus changed His mind about the Great Commission?
Mark 16
14Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
QUESTION:
did every single one of those who had seen Him after he had risen preach the SAME GOSPEL message?
what is the GREAT COMMISSION?
28"I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." 29When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God's justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.
Matthew 21:31
"Which of the two did what his father wanted?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.
Matthew 21:32
For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
...
could someone show me where Jesus changed His mind about the Great Commission?
Mark 16
14Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
QUESTION:
did every single one of those who had seen Him after he had risen preach the SAME GOSPEL message?
what is the GREAT COMMISSION?
B
You are using Acts 16:31 as 'proxy' salvation and not a salvation of 'promise' to those who believe. You are avoiding the belief and doctrine of 'baptismal regeneration' that Lutherans adhere to, of which you profess yourself. Even one of your own left the Lutheran church for reasons stated in Post#285. You demand straight answers from others, so likewise give us a straight answer if you can. DO YOU BELIEVE IN 'BAPTISMAL REGENERATION' as the Lutherans do? This thread is about what Lutherans believe, so stay on topic. If you refuse to participate then that is your decision, but we are going to explore the Lutheran doctrine until the cows come home. You have said plenty about the faith of others and even condemned them of not having salvation, raking their faith over the coals of your own zeal and doctrine. It is time that we explore some of the things that you adhere to in the faith of the Lutheran church. We will not charge them or even you of being unsaved, as you have to others, but of being misled and in error we will explore and use the testimonies of others to do so along with the scriptures as we prove all things pertaining to your doctrine. Can you answer the charge being made about 'Baptismal Regeneration'?
Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’
Acts 8:36-39
And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing.
Romans 6:4
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, << [NOT JUST ISRAEL IN THE JEWISH "AGE OF LAW"] baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Acts 2:41
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Acts 8:38
And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Colossians 2:12
Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Matthew 3:16
And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;
Acts 9:18
And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized;
Acts 10:47
“Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Acts 16:30-33
Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family.
Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Acts 8:26-39
Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Rise and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a desert place. And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure. He had come to Jerusalem to worship and was returning, seated in his chariot, and he was reading the prophet Isaiah. And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.” So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” ...
Titus 3:5
He saved us,not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Romans 6:1-18
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. ...
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Romans 6:3
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
John 5:43
I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
John 4:4-42
And he had to pass through Samaria. So he came to a town of Samaria called Sychar, near the field that Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob's well was there; so Jesus, wearied as he was from his journey, was sitting beside the well. It was about the sixth hour. A woman from Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give me a drink.” (For his disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.) ...
John 4:2
(although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples),
John 3:23
John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because water was plentiful there, and people were coming and being baptized
Mark 16:15
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Acts 2:1-47
When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. ...
John 4:1-2
Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples)
???????????????????????
John 4:1
Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John
???????????????????????
John 1:32-34
And John bore witness: “I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.”
John 1:29-31
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’ I myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.”
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Mark 1:10
And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.
Mark 1:9
In those days Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
1 Peter 3:20
Because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
Hebrews 9:28
So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
Romans 6:3-4
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Acts 18:8
Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.
Acts 16:13-15
And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. And after she was baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.
Acts 8:39
And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing.
Acts 8:36-38
And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Acts 8:36
And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?”
Acts 8:35-39
Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing.
Acts 8:35-38
Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
...
John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Acts 18:8
Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.
did Paul, or did he not, teach a different Gospel message than Jesus or peter or john or anyone else?
like.......... this is hard?
or no.
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’
Acts 8:36-39
And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing.
Romans 6:4
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, << [NOT JUST ISRAEL IN THE JEWISH "AGE OF LAW"] baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Acts 2:41
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Acts 8:38
And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Colossians 2:12
Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Matthew 3:16
And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;
Acts 9:18
And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized;
Acts 10:47
“Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Acts 16:30-33
Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family.
Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Acts 8:26-39
Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Rise and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a desert place. And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure. He had come to Jerusalem to worship and was returning, seated in his chariot, and he was reading the prophet Isaiah. And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.” So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” ...
Titus 3:5
He saved us,not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Romans 6:1-18
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. ...
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Romans 6:3
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
John 5:43
I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
John 4:4-42
And he had to pass through Samaria. So he came to a town of Samaria called Sychar, near the field that Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob's well was there; so Jesus, wearied as he was from his journey, was sitting beside the well. It was about the sixth hour. A woman from Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give me a drink.” (For his disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.) ...
John 4:2
(although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples),
John 3:23
John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because water was plentiful there, and people were coming and being baptized
Mark 16:15
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Acts 2:1-47
When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. ...
John 4:1-2
Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples)
???????????????????????
John 4:1
Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John
???????????????????????
John 1:32-34
And John bore witness: “I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.”
John 1:29-31
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’ I myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.”
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Mark 1:10
And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.
Mark 1:9
In those days Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
1 Peter 3:20
Because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
Hebrews 9:28
So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
Romans 6:3-4
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Acts 18:8
Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.
Acts 16:13-15
And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. And after she was baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.
Acts 8:39
And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing.
Acts 8:36-38
And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Acts 8:36
And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?”
Acts 8:35-39
Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing.
Acts 8:35-38
Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
...
John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Acts 18:8
Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.
did Paul, or did he not, teach a different Gospel message than Jesus or peter or john or anyone else?
like..........
this is hard?or no.
see previous post with SOME passages on baptism. make them say something they DO NOT say.
show me where water baptism is NOT tied directly to the Gospel message to all nations, throughout time.
you are an hyper-dispensationalist - you believe Peter & Paul taught DIFFERENT GOSPELS, therefore you teach another gospel.
i can not help you.
show me where water baptism is NOT tied directly to the Gospel message to all nations, throughout time.
you are an hyper-dispensationalist - you believe Peter & Paul taught DIFFERENT GOSPELS, therefore you teach another gospel.
i can not help you.
Acts 22:16
And now why do you [PAUL - MYSTERY GENTILE CHURCH AGE GAP DIFFERENT GOSPEL PREACHER] wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’
Romans 10
12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." 14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
wait....what did Peter say BAPTISM was?
calling on his name < an appeal for a clean conscience before Him. < can you clear your own conscience?
do you have a clean conscience knowing you are teaching men to downgrade and despise the very baptism JESUS commanded?
wait.....what did Paul say Baptism was?
as many as of who have been baptized INTO Christ, have been baptized INTO His DEATH....and raised in His resurrection.
undo that Red33....make it something other than what paul said it was.
was Paul baptized for no reason? did he NOT understand what Jesus Christ Himself told Ananais to say?
did he do it?
then what? < did he go anywhere or do anything at for The Lord until then?
show me.
...
Paul's Conversion
The most important event in human history apart from the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth is the conversion to Christianity of Saul of Tarsus. If Saul had remained a Jewish rabbi, we would be missing thirteen of twenty-seven books of the New Testament and Christianity's early major expansion to the Gentiles. Humanly speaking, without Paul Christianity would probably be of only antiquarian or arcane interest, like the Dead Sea Scrolls community or the Samaritans.Saul the Enemy (9:1-2)
With Old Testament imagery for anger--snorting through distended nostrils (Ps 18:8, 15)--Luke builds up the picture of Saul as a rampaging wild beast in his hateful opposition to the disciples of the Lord (compare Acts 8:3; Gal 1:13, 23). When the NIV renders "threats and murder" as murderous threats, something is lost of the reference to the two-part Jewish judicial process (Longenecker 1981:368) and the highlighting of Saul's violence (Lake and Cadbury 1979:99). Saul does not just make threats (compare Acts 4:17, 29); he helps bring about actual executions (8:1; 26:10). Aside from this initial note, Luke gives us no indication of Saul's inner thoughts and motives before, during or after his conversion (but see 7:54-8:1; 26:9-11; Rom 7:7-12; Gal 1:13, 14; Phil 3:4-11).
Saul takes action. He goes to Caiaphas (4:6) and receives letters of introduction to the synagogues in Damascus, some 140 miles northeast. He seeks to enlist their aid, or at least permission, to arrest any fugitive Hellenistic Jewish Christians and return them to Jerusalem for trial (22:5).
The hostility to Christianity of pre-Christian Saul presents both challenge and hope to any non-Christian. The hope is that if God can turn the fiercest opponent of the Lord into his most willing servant, he has the ability to save anyone. The challenge is not to be deceived by self-satisfaction. Saul was quite content with his life spiritually. But God's sovereign grace arrested him.Saul's Encounter with Christ (9:3-9)
As Saul travels to Damascus at midday, he experiences the divine presence: a light from heaven flashing around him and a voice addressing him (compare 7:31/Ex 3:4-10). The descent from Mt. Hermon to Damascus in the plain goes through a region known for violent electrical storms. Though this flashing light may have had the effects of lightning, however, it was a supernatural midday phenomenon.
Saul and his traveling companions see the light, but Saul sees more: the risen Lord Jesus in all his resplendent glory (9:17, 27; 22:14; 26:16; 1 Cor 9:1; 15:8). So overwhelming is the sight that Saul falls to the ground (compare Ezek 1:28; Dan 8:17). The sound or voice probably reminds him of the bat-qol ("daughter of the voice"), the way pious Jews believed God had directly communicated with human beings since the gift of prophecy had ceased with Malachi (Longenecker 1981:370). But the divine presence creates confusion for Saul, for if God is speaking with him, who is this heavenly figure addressing him?
The voice gives the divine perspective on Paul's activity. With a repeated address (compare Gen 22:11; Ex 3:4; 1 Sam 3:10; Lk 10:41; 22:31) the voice asks, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? Jesus identifies with his disciples, his body (see Lk 10:16; Acts 1:1; 9:1; 1 Cor 12:27; Eph 4:12). In doing so he reveals that Saul's teacher Gamaliel's worst fears have materialized (Acts 5:39).
Saul grapples with his dawning realization that his life, though lived in zeal for the one true God even to the point of persecuting the church, has in reality been one of "ignorance in unbelief" (1 Tim 1:13). Through the question "why?" he begins to see that in proving his commitment to God by persecuting the church, he has actually been proving himself an enemy of God. As Saul deeply considers that "why?" and accepts the divine perspective on his actions, his whole spiritual world will be turned upside down. What was gain will become loss (Phil 3:6-9). What was a badge of honor will become a lifelong shameful blot on his character (1 Cor 15:9; 1 Tim 1:13, 15).
Out of his confusion, Saul calls, Who are you, Lord? Is he simply addressing the heavenly being with respect (Marshall 1980:169), or is he for the first time confessing Jesus as his Lord (compare Rom 10:9-10; 1 Cor 12:3; Kistemaker 1990:332)? His inquiry about the person's identity may indicate the former. He receives a divine disclosure in the clear reply, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting." Jesus of Nazareth is risen from the dead! Stephen was telling the truth when he bore witness to the Son of Man standing at God's right hand (Acts 7:56). Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, the Savior, the Lord (9:20, 28).
Immediately Jesus issues a divine demand that requires Saul's trust and obedience. In the city he will learn what he must do to fulfill God's purposes (compare 9:16; 14:22).
Saul's companions probably include a number of wayfarers banded together in a caravan for protection against the hazards of the journey, as well as temple police to aid Saul in his work (Lake and Cadbury 1979:101; Bruce 1988:185). At this encounter they stand speechless, hearing a voice or the sound of a voice but not understanding the words (9:7/22:9). They do not see Jesus, though they see the light (22:9).
Thus Saul's conversion experience is an objective event with third-party witnesses. It is also a very personal event. The witnesses do not participate in the theophany the way Saul does (compare Jn 12:29-30; Acts 7:56).
For Saul the physical effects are devastating. Getting up from the ground, he opens his eyes and discovers he is blind! Led by the hand (Judg 16:26; Tobit 11:16) into the city, he neither eats nor drinks for three days.
But the spiritual effects on Saul will last a lifetime. The spiritual significance of a Jewish rabbi's being physically blinded by the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ is not lost on Saul or Luke (2 Cor 4:4-6). Major themes in Luke-Acts are God's final salvation as a recovery of sight to the blind and as a light to the nations (Is 40:5/Lk 3:6; Is 61:1-2/Lk 4:18-19; Is 42:6/Lk 2:30-32; Is 49:6/Acts 13:47; compare 26:23; Lk 7:21-22; 18:35-43--last miracle before the cross; 14:21; Acts 26:18-23; Hamm 1990:68). The Jews, especially the rabbis, used the image "guide to the blind" to describe their God-given role among the Gentiles and the am haares (1 Enoch 105:1; Sibylline Oracles 3:194; Josephus Against Apion 2.41; Rom 2:19). As Saul meditates on the light during those three days of darkness, then, the greatness of the divinely promised final salvation available only in the last person he saw must become more and more clear and precious (Acts 26:18). And the role he is to play in becoming a light to the Gentiles must become increasingly evident (26:17).
What is Saul to make of his blindness? It is not a punishment (as Hamm 1990:70) nor an indication of divine disfavor (as Hedrick 1981:419) nor simply a concrete proof of the vision (as Haenchen 1971:323). An acted parable, it shows Saul the spiritual bankruptcy of his pre-Christian condition.
Saul's fast may be caused by the shock. Eye doctor John Bullock notes that the electrical shock from being struck by lightning causes violent muscular contractions; the throat can be so affected that it is hard to swallow (see notes for 9:8, 18). Or the fast may be a conscious act of penance for past sins (Haenchen 1971:323). The former seems more likely, since in 9:19, after his healing, Saul takes nourishment and is strengthened.
All conversion experiences are unique to the individual. What of Saul's experience does Luke intend us to take as normative? We should focus on the dynamic pattern of conversion, which includes a personal encounter with Jesus Christ via a witness to the gospel, a response of surrender in penitence and faith, and the reception of salvation blessings and incorporation into the church.Saul the Chosen Vessel (9:10-19)
In a vision the Lord speaks to Ananias, sending him on a mission to restore the new convert. The mission serves to preserve Paul's apostleship as by "revelation from Jesus Christ" (Gal 1:12), to bring him into the church, despite his notorious reputation, and to ensure that the Gentile mission will take place with the approval of the church (Acts 13:1-4; compare other visions that guide the church's advance: 10:3, 17; 16:9-10: 18:9-10).
Ananias, a resident of Damascus and a devout disciple (22:12), is part of a "double vision" divine encounter (9:12) in which both he and Paul are made aware of the next step. Ananias should proceed to the main east-west thoroughfare of Damascus, Straight Street. With great porches and gates at each end and colonnades for commerce running along each side, this fashionable address would be as well known in its day as Regent Street in London or Fifth Avenue in New York is today. He is to look for Saul of Tarsus in Judas's house. Tradition locates Saul's abode at the west end (Lake and Cadbury 1979:102). Saul is praying, probably in preparation for his restoration (compare 1:14).
To be converted means to move from self-centered independence to dependence on the Lord and interdependence with fellow disciples. Saul the convert needs the support and encouragement of the church. Today too the gospel witness should emphasize by word and deed that being born again is being born into the family of God, the church.
Ananias protests. He has misgivings grounded in the convert's past reputation. All the Lord has told him is that this Saul is blind and praying. When Ananias puts that together with the harm Saul has perpetrated against the saints (9:21; 26:10) in Jerusalem, he is not sure he wants the assignment. Besides, Saul's mission in Damascus, with the authority of the high priests (either Annas and Caiaphas [Kistemaker 1990:329] or the high-priestly families [Bruce 1990:238]), is to arrest all who call on [the Lord's] name. By negative example, at this point, Ananias teaches us that reluctant gospel messengers must not only love their enemies but also trust that the gospel has such redemptive power that a praying converted persecutor is a persecutor no more.
The Lord does not directly answer Ananias's misgivings; he simply repeats his command: "Go!" The sovereign Lord has spoken. That is all the rationale Ananias or we need. Yet in his mercy the Lord also tells Ananias Saul's new status as my chosen instrument (Jer 18:1-11; 2 Cor 4:7; 2 Tim 2:20-21), his new mission, to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel, and new relationship to persecution, to suffer for Jesus' name. These new realities mean Ananias has nothing to fear from Saul.
Though Paul later seems to practice a "to the Jews first" strategy (Rom 1:16; for example, Acts 13:5, 14, 46; 14:1; 16:13; 17:1, 10; 18:4; 19:8; 28:23-28), he will remain aware of his definite calling to the Gentiles (18:6; 22:21; 26:17, 20; also 13:46-47/Is 49:6). Suffering for the Lord Jesus' name will indeed be his portion (Acts 20:23-24; 21:11; 26:17; 2 Cor 11:23-27; Phil 1:12-14; 3:10; Col 1:24).
Every convert then and now needs to know "it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him" (Phil 1:29). This verse was used to charge inquirers in Russian churches in the days of active persecution under atheistic communism. New Christians must know that discipleship is purposeful and costly.
Ananias obeys and performs his ministry to Paul. Laying hands on Saul, he declares that he has been sent by the Lord Jesus so that Saul may see again and be filled with the Spirit (Acts 9:17). Saul's vision (v. 12) linked only the healing and the laying on of hands, consistent with other passages in Luke-Acts (Lk 4:40; 13:13; Acts 28:8). Ananias also seems to link it with Paul's being filled with the Spirit (Williams [1985:157] and Marshall [1980:172] say no). Saul's filling with the Spirit is not a delayed reception of the baptism of the Spirit as a salvation blessing, but is the first of many empowerments for apostolic witness (compare 13:9; also see 2:4; 4:8, 31). This is Paul's "Pentecost," further validating his apostleship.
Ananias ministers to Saul as a convert. He heals him--sight is regained as something like scales (film or scar tissue) falls from Saul's eyes. He instructs Saul, confirming that the Jesus whom Saul saw on the road is indeed the Lord. He comforts Saul, addressing him as a Christian brother. He baptizes Saul, formally incorporating him into the body of Christ. Finally Saul knows full physical restoration as he takes nourishment. In all, Ananias's ministry models for us the supportive, restorative role the church is to play in the lives of newly converted Christians.
- Acts 9 - IVP New Testament Commentaries
a-a-a-a-a-anyways.
And now why do you [PAUL - MYSTERY GENTILE CHURCH AGE GAP DIFFERENT GOSPEL PREACHER] wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’
Romans 10
12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." 14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
wait....what did Peter say BAPTISM was?
calling on his name < an appeal for a clean conscience before Him. < can you clear your own conscience?
do you have a clean conscience knowing you are teaching men to downgrade and despise the very baptism JESUS commanded?
wait.....what did Paul say Baptism was?
as many as of who have been baptized INTO Christ, have been baptized INTO His DEATH....and raised in His resurrection.
undo that Red33....make it something other than what paul said it was.
was Paul baptized for no reason? did he NOT understand what Jesus Christ Himself told Ananais to say?
did he do it?
then what? < did he go anywhere or do anything at for The Lord until then?
show me.
...
Paul's Conversion
The most important event in human history apart from the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth is the conversion to Christianity of Saul of Tarsus. If Saul had remained a Jewish rabbi, we would be missing thirteen of twenty-seven books of the New Testament and Christianity's early major expansion to the Gentiles. Humanly speaking, without Paul Christianity would probably be of only antiquarian or arcane interest, like the Dead Sea Scrolls community or the Samaritans.Saul the Enemy (9:1-2)
With Old Testament imagery for anger--snorting through distended nostrils (Ps 18:8, 15)--Luke builds up the picture of Saul as a rampaging wild beast in his hateful opposition to the disciples of the Lord (compare Acts 8:3; Gal 1:13, 23). When the NIV renders "threats and murder" as murderous threats, something is lost of the reference to the two-part Jewish judicial process (Longenecker 1981:368) and the highlighting of Saul's violence (Lake and Cadbury 1979:99). Saul does not just make threats (compare Acts 4:17, 29); he helps bring about actual executions (8:1; 26:10). Aside from this initial note, Luke gives us no indication of Saul's inner thoughts and motives before, during or after his conversion (but see 7:54-8:1; 26:9-11; Rom 7:7-12; Gal 1:13, 14; Phil 3:4-11).
Saul takes action. He goes to Caiaphas (4:6) and receives letters of introduction to the synagogues in Damascus, some 140 miles northeast. He seeks to enlist their aid, or at least permission, to arrest any fugitive Hellenistic Jewish Christians and return them to Jerusalem for trial (22:5).
The hostility to Christianity of pre-Christian Saul presents both challenge and hope to any non-Christian. The hope is that if God can turn the fiercest opponent of the Lord into his most willing servant, he has the ability to save anyone. The challenge is not to be deceived by self-satisfaction. Saul was quite content with his life spiritually. But God's sovereign grace arrested him.Saul's Encounter with Christ (9:3-9)
As Saul travels to Damascus at midday, he experiences the divine presence: a light from heaven flashing around him and a voice addressing him (compare 7:31/Ex 3:4-10). The descent from Mt. Hermon to Damascus in the plain goes through a region known for violent electrical storms. Though this flashing light may have had the effects of lightning, however, it was a supernatural midday phenomenon.
Saul and his traveling companions see the light, but Saul sees more: the risen Lord Jesus in all his resplendent glory (9:17, 27; 22:14; 26:16; 1 Cor 9:1; 15:8). So overwhelming is the sight that Saul falls to the ground (compare Ezek 1:28; Dan 8:17). The sound or voice probably reminds him of the bat-qol ("daughter of the voice"), the way pious Jews believed God had directly communicated with human beings since the gift of prophecy had ceased with Malachi (Longenecker 1981:370). But the divine presence creates confusion for Saul, for if God is speaking with him, who is this heavenly figure addressing him?
The voice gives the divine perspective on Paul's activity. With a repeated address (compare Gen 22:11; Ex 3:4; 1 Sam 3:10; Lk 10:41; 22:31) the voice asks, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? Jesus identifies with his disciples, his body (see Lk 10:16; Acts 1:1; 9:1; 1 Cor 12:27; Eph 4:12). In doing so he reveals that Saul's teacher Gamaliel's worst fears have materialized (Acts 5:39).
Saul grapples with his dawning realization that his life, though lived in zeal for the one true God even to the point of persecuting the church, has in reality been one of "ignorance in unbelief" (1 Tim 1:13). Through the question "why?" he begins to see that in proving his commitment to God by persecuting the church, he has actually been proving himself an enemy of God. As Saul deeply considers that "why?" and accepts the divine perspective on his actions, his whole spiritual world will be turned upside down. What was gain will become loss (Phil 3:6-9). What was a badge of honor will become a lifelong shameful blot on his character (1 Cor 15:9; 1 Tim 1:13, 15).
Out of his confusion, Saul calls, Who are you, Lord? Is he simply addressing the heavenly being with respect (Marshall 1980:169), or is he for the first time confessing Jesus as his Lord (compare Rom 10:9-10; 1 Cor 12:3; Kistemaker 1990:332)? His inquiry about the person's identity may indicate the former. He receives a divine disclosure in the clear reply, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting." Jesus of Nazareth is risen from the dead! Stephen was telling the truth when he bore witness to the Son of Man standing at God's right hand (Acts 7:56). Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, the Savior, the Lord (9:20, 28).
Immediately Jesus issues a divine demand that requires Saul's trust and obedience. In the city he will learn what he must do to fulfill God's purposes (compare 9:16; 14:22).
Saul's companions probably include a number of wayfarers banded together in a caravan for protection against the hazards of the journey, as well as temple police to aid Saul in his work (Lake and Cadbury 1979:101; Bruce 1988:185). At this encounter they stand speechless, hearing a voice or the sound of a voice but not understanding the words (9:7/22:9). They do not see Jesus, though they see the light (22:9).
Thus Saul's conversion experience is an objective event with third-party witnesses. It is also a very personal event. The witnesses do not participate in the theophany the way Saul does (compare Jn 12:29-30; Acts 7:56).
For Saul the physical effects are devastating. Getting up from the ground, he opens his eyes and discovers he is blind! Led by the hand (Judg 16:26; Tobit 11:16) into the city, he neither eats nor drinks for three days.
But the spiritual effects on Saul will last a lifetime. The spiritual significance of a Jewish rabbi's being physically blinded by the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ is not lost on Saul or Luke (2 Cor 4:4-6). Major themes in Luke-Acts are God's final salvation as a recovery of sight to the blind and as a light to the nations (Is 40:5/Lk 3:6; Is 61:1-2/Lk 4:18-19; Is 42:6/Lk 2:30-32; Is 49:6/Acts 13:47; compare 26:23; Lk 7:21-22; 18:35-43--last miracle before the cross; 14:21; Acts 26:18-23; Hamm 1990:68). The Jews, especially the rabbis, used the image "guide to the blind" to describe their God-given role among the Gentiles and the am haares (1 Enoch 105:1; Sibylline Oracles 3:194; Josephus Against Apion 2.41; Rom 2:19). As Saul meditates on the light during those three days of darkness, then, the greatness of the divinely promised final salvation available only in the last person he saw must become more and more clear and precious (Acts 26:18). And the role he is to play in becoming a light to the Gentiles must become increasingly evident (26:17).
What is Saul to make of his blindness? It is not a punishment (as Hamm 1990:70) nor an indication of divine disfavor (as Hedrick 1981:419) nor simply a concrete proof of the vision (as Haenchen 1971:323). An acted parable, it shows Saul the spiritual bankruptcy of his pre-Christian condition.
Saul's fast may be caused by the shock. Eye doctor John Bullock notes that the electrical shock from being struck by lightning causes violent muscular contractions; the throat can be so affected that it is hard to swallow (see notes for 9:8, 18). Or the fast may be a conscious act of penance for past sins (Haenchen 1971:323). The former seems more likely, since in 9:19, after his healing, Saul takes nourishment and is strengthened.
All conversion experiences are unique to the individual. What of Saul's experience does Luke intend us to take as normative? We should focus on the dynamic pattern of conversion, which includes a personal encounter with Jesus Christ via a witness to the gospel, a response of surrender in penitence and faith, and the reception of salvation blessings and incorporation into the church.Saul the Chosen Vessel (9:10-19)
In a vision the Lord speaks to Ananias, sending him on a mission to restore the new convert. The mission serves to preserve Paul's apostleship as by "revelation from Jesus Christ" (Gal 1:12), to bring him into the church, despite his notorious reputation, and to ensure that the Gentile mission will take place with the approval of the church (Acts 13:1-4; compare other visions that guide the church's advance: 10:3, 17; 16:9-10: 18:9-10).
Ananias, a resident of Damascus and a devout disciple (22:12), is part of a "double vision" divine encounter (9:12) in which both he and Paul are made aware of the next step. Ananias should proceed to the main east-west thoroughfare of Damascus, Straight Street. With great porches and gates at each end and colonnades for commerce running along each side, this fashionable address would be as well known in its day as Regent Street in London or Fifth Avenue in New York is today. He is to look for Saul of Tarsus in Judas's house. Tradition locates Saul's abode at the west end (Lake and Cadbury 1979:102). Saul is praying, probably in preparation for his restoration (compare 1:14).
To be converted means to move from self-centered independence to dependence on the Lord and interdependence with fellow disciples. Saul the convert needs the support and encouragement of the church. Today too the gospel witness should emphasize by word and deed that being born again is being born into the family of God, the church.
Ananias protests. He has misgivings grounded in the convert's past reputation. All the Lord has told him is that this Saul is blind and praying. When Ananias puts that together with the harm Saul has perpetrated against the saints (9:21; 26:10) in Jerusalem, he is not sure he wants the assignment. Besides, Saul's mission in Damascus, with the authority of the high priests (either Annas and Caiaphas [Kistemaker 1990:329] or the high-priestly families [Bruce 1990:238]), is to arrest all who call on [the Lord's] name. By negative example, at this point, Ananias teaches us that reluctant gospel messengers must not only love their enemies but also trust that the gospel has such redemptive power that a praying converted persecutor is a persecutor no more.
The Lord does not directly answer Ananias's misgivings; he simply repeats his command: "Go!" The sovereign Lord has spoken. That is all the rationale Ananias or we need. Yet in his mercy the Lord also tells Ananias Saul's new status as my chosen instrument (Jer 18:1-11; 2 Cor 4:7; 2 Tim 2:20-21), his new mission, to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel, and new relationship to persecution, to suffer for Jesus' name. These new realities mean Ananias has nothing to fear from Saul.
Though Paul later seems to practice a "to the Jews first" strategy (Rom 1:16; for example, Acts 13:5, 14, 46; 14:1; 16:13; 17:1, 10; 18:4; 19:8; 28:23-28), he will remain aware of his definite calling to the Gentiles (18:6; 22:21; 26:17, 20; also 13:46-47/Is 49:6). Suffering for the Lord Jesus' name will indeed be his portion (Acts 20:23-24; 21:11; 26:17; 2 Cor 11:23-27; Phil 1:12-14; 3:10; Col 1:24).
Every convert then and now needs to know "it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him" (Phil 1:29). This verse was used to charge inquirers in Russian churches in the days of active persecution under atheistic communism. New Christians must know that discipleship is purposeful and costly.
Ananias obeys and performs his ministry to Paul. Laying hands on Saul, he declares that he has been sent by the Lord Jesus so that Saul may see again and be filled with the Spirit (Acts 9:17). Saul's vision (v. 12) linked only the healing and the laying on of hands, consistent with other passages in Luke-Acts (Lk 4:40; 13:13; Acts 28:8). Ananias also seems to link it with Paul's being filled with the Spirit (Williams [1985:157] and Marshall [1980:172] say no). Saul's filling with the Spirit is not a delayed reception of the baptism of the Spirit as a salvation blessing, but is the first of many empowerments for apostolic witness (compare 13:9; also see 2:4; 4:8, 31). This is Paul's "Pentecost," further validating his apostleship.
Ananias ministers to Saul as a convert. He heals him--sight is regained as something like scales (film or scar tissue) falls from Saul's eyes. He instructs Saul, confirming that the Jesus whom Saul saw on the road is indeed the Lord. He comforts Saul, addressing him as a Christian brother. He baptizes Saul, formally incorporating him into the body of Christ. Finally Saul knows full physical restoration as he takes nourishment. In all, Ananias's ministry models for us the supportive, restorative role the church is to play in the lives of newly converted Christians.
- Acts 9 - IVP New Testament Commentaries
a-a-a-a-a-anyways.
Ephesians 2:4-9 (KJV) [SUP]4 [/SUP]But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, [SUP]5 [/SUP]Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) [SUP]6 [/SUP]And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: [SUP]7 [/SUP]That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. [SUP]8[/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.
B
Are we to understand that these verses of scripture point to baptismal regeneration or are you just trying to avoid the inevitable? Is this your way of hiding from us what you believe in your heart or perhaps from the church you serve God in? If you really believe in baptismal regeneration just say so. Why should you be ashamed if that is what you truly believe and adhere to in your faith? Is there excommunicating issues involved? Anyone can quote verses of scripture, but God has given teachers and preachers to the church, who labor in the word and doctrine who are enabled to bring us into the unity of the faith through the Spirit. Baptismal regeneration is false doctrine that Lutherans adhere to and you may not want to be associated with it, but if you do adhere to it, then that is a serious issue of our faith that needs to be addressed. Salvation or regeneration by association or proxy is not what the cross of Christ has provided to man. Water baptism by sprinkling or immersion provides nothing in terms of grace that bring salvation to any sinner, conceived and born in sin.
Here is a reminder just in case some have gotten off course with their faith.
Rom 10:9-17 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
In the above passage there is no mention of water baptism as a prerequisite for salvation or regeneration and God made that point on the cross with the thief who asked for mercy and with the publican in (Luke 18:13,14). Water baptism is not even an after thought of confirmation that is given to relegate as something that 'seals the deal' or makes salvation or regeneration a sure thing.
Here is a reminder just in case some have gotten off course with their faith.
Rom 10:9-17 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
In the above passage there is no mention of water baptism as a prerequisite for salvation or regeneration and God made that point on the cross with the thief who asked for mercy and with the publican in (Luke 18:13,14). Water baptism is not even an after thought of confirmation that is given to relegate as something that 'seals the deal' or makes salvation or regeneration a sure thing.
i dunno DA....what does it sound like to despise baptism?
even AFTER all those passages were posted.
but, this the face of hyper-dispensationalism...
Hyperdispensationalism and the Authority of Christ
by Bob DeWaay
"Recently I spoke with a friend from another state who recounted to me how he had lost fellowship with a long-time Christian friend because of an eccentric doctrine the friend had gotten caught up in.
The particular doctrine claims Jesus' teachings are not "for" the church, that the Great Commission is not binding on the church, that there are at least two different gospels, and that the gospel of grace was totally unknown until Paul received it.
...
I have since heard from several others who have had friends or family get caught up in this same teaching. For many, the current source of this doctrine is radio teacher Les Feldick. Critics of this system (myself included) call the doctrine hyperdispensationalism. It is distinct from dispensationalism, which teaches that the church age began at Pentecost.1 In this article I will describe the source of hyperdispensationalism, some of its current proponents, and examine its claims by comparing them with Scripture. I will conclude that its claims are false and constitute a diminishing of Christ's authority over His own church."
...
"In the 19th century, Anglican clergyman E. W. Bullinger was the father of a system of theology that claimed that the gospel of grace was unknown until it was revealed to Paul. He claimed that the church age as we know it did not begin until Acts 28, when an offer to immediately institute the kingdom of God on earth was withdrawn from Israel. Bullinger claimed that only the prison epistles were binding on the church. Thus Bullinger relegated most of Scripture to a category similar to the book of Leviticus: inspired, but not directly binding on Christians in all of its details. One implication of this teaching is that Jesus' own teachings, including the Great Commission, are not binding or applicable to the church."
Critical Issues Commentary: Hyperdispensationalism and the Authority of Christ
even AFTER all those passages were posted.
but, this the face of hyper-dispensationalism...
Hyperdispensationalism and the Authority of Christ
by Bob DeWaay
"Recently I spoke with a friend from another state who recounted to me how he had lost fellowship with a long-time Christian friend because of an eccentric doctrine the friend had gotten caught up in.
The particular doctrine claims Jesus' teachings are not "for" the church, that the Great Commission is not binding on the church, that there are at least two different gospels, and that the gospel of grace was totally unknown until Paul received it.
...
I have since heard from several others who have had friends or family get caught up in this same teaching. For many, the current source of this doctrine is radio teacher Les Feldick. Critics of this system (myself included) call the doctrine hyperdispensationalism. It is distinct from dispensationalism, which teaches that the church age began at Pentecost.1 In this article I will describe the source of hyperdispensationalism, some of its current proponents, and examine its claims by comparing them with Scripture. I will conclude that its claims are false and constitute a diminishing of Christ's authority over His own church."
...
"In the 19th century, Anglican clergyman E. W. Bullinger was the father of a system of theology that claimed that the gospel of grace was unknown until it was revealed to Paul. He claimed that the church age as we know it did not begin until Acts 28, when an offer to immediately institute the kingdom of God on earth was withdrawn from Israel. Bullinger claimed that only the prison epistles were binding on the church. Thus Bullinger relegated most of Scripture to a category similar to the book of Leviticus: inspired, but not directly binding on Christians in all of its details. One implication of this teaching is that Jesus' own teachings, including the Great Commission, are not binding or applicable to the church."
Critical Issues Commentary: Hyperdispensationalism and the Authority of Christ
Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.
This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.
This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.
It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.
It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC
i have no idea what you're even doing on this thread.
This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.
This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.
It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.
It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC
i have no idea what you're even doing on this thread.