The Importance of Rightly Dividing the word of Truth

[MikeTwomey]

I tend to believe that everything in Revelation is literal.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Once a person comes to repentance, then he is ready to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.


Repentance is simply coming to God as a sinner.

Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.


Dumb Peter! Doesn't Peter know that Jesus came to replace Israel with the church? And here he is saying that Jesus is the Saviour in order to give repentance to Israel and forgive them of their sins?

A little satire. Most of you probably know me by now that I teach we Christians are Biblical Israel. The scriptures are so much smoother and threaded evenly together when there is no dispensation, but one body in Christ, one nation, and one God and one covenant with the same laws.

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

 

[homwardbound]

Sure brother homwardbound, we are saved by coming to repentance, and by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21).

Once a person comes to repentance, then he is ready to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.


Repentance is simply coming to God as a sinner.

Done that, what if I sin again, not to someone else, just have lust? What have I got to do anything please give specifics?

 

[homwardbound]

That is a good question Homwardbound.


And the answer is no. The 144,000 are not Christians at all. They are Jews from the twelve tribes of the Children of Israel:


7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. - Revelation 7:1-8 (King James Bible)




14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. - Revelation 14:1-5 (King James Bible)

Is not being a believer a Christian? So are not these 144,000 believers?

 

[homwardbound]

That is a good question Homwardbound.


And the answer is no. The 144,000 are not Christians at all. They are Jews from the twelve tribes of the Children of Israel:


7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. - Revelation 7:1-8 (King James Bible)




14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. - Revelation 14:1-5 (King James Bible)

has Christ not made us perfect by his one time sacrifice and last shedding of Blood, forgiven and do not take this for granted and use this death as an excuse to do wrong

 

[zone]

Here is another important distinction that needs to be made in order for one to understand the Scriptures and Bible Prophecy.

In the Dispensation of Grace (Church Age)

The Importance of Rightly Dividing the word of Truth

Dispensation
<1,,3622,oikonomia>
primarily signifies "the management of a household or of household affairs" (oikos, "a house," nomos, "a law"); then the management or administration of the property of others, and so "a stewardship," Luke 16:2-4; elsewhere only in the Epistles of Paul, who applies it (a) to the responsibility entrusted to him of preaching the Gospel, 1 Cor. 9:17 (RV, "stewardship," AV, "dispensation"); (b) to the stewardship commited to him "to fulfill the Word of God," the fulfillment being the unfolding of the completion of the Divinely arranged and imparted cycle of truths which are consummated in the truth relating to the Church as the Body of Christ, Col. 1:25 (RV and AV, "dispensation"); so in Eph. 3:2, of the grace of God given him as a stewardship ("dispensation") in regard to the same "mystery;" (c) in Eph. 1:10; 3:9, it is used of the arrangement or administration by God, by which in "the fullness of the times" (or seasons) God will sum up all things in the heavens and on earth in Christ. In Eph. 3:9 some mss. have koinonia, "fellowship," for oikonomia, "dispensation." In 1 Tim. 1:4 oikonomia may mean either a stewardship in the sense of (a) above, or a "dispensation" in the sense of (c). The reading oikodomia, "edifying," in some mss., is not to be accepted. See STEWARDSHIP.

Note: A "dispensation" is not a period or epoch (a common, but erroneous, use of the word), but a mode of dealing, an arrangement, or administration of affairs. Cp. oikonomos, "a steward," and oikonomeo, "to be a steward."

- Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

 

[homwardbound]

Hi there Zone, great question.


The Jews today can get saved. And when they do, they are to be called a Christian. Why? Here is the answer:


26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. - Galatians 3:26-29 (King James Bible)





10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. - Colossians 3:10-13 (King James Bible)



So when a Jew gets saved, they are not supposed to call themselves a messianic Jew. They are to simply call themselves a Christian.


I know that some of them are called completed Jews. And I actually like the sound of that. I really do. But Scripturally, if a man gets saved, whether Jew or Gentile, they are a Christian. They are in Christ Jesus. They are a part of His body (Eph. 5:30).


And yes I do believe that baptism, water baptism is an ordinance that should be followed today for every Christian.


That is once he gets saved, he should partake in water baptism as a way to identify with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.


Water Baptisim is an ordinance that symboliccaly indentifies us as new creatures in Christ.

Okay, what about the Holy Ghost coming on to Cornelius and family as Peter spoke the word to them before water Baptism was ever placed on them?
I mean if they had NOT gotten water Baptized after the receiving of the Holy Ghost, would they have still been saved? Or would God have repented and taken away what God had obviously already given, a born again life to us Gentiles, without any works on their own.

 

[zone]

Hi there Zone, great question.

The Jews today can get saved. And when they do, they are to be called a Christian. Why? Here is the answer:

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. - Galatians 3:26-29 (King James Bible)

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. - Colossians 3:10-13 (King James Bible)

So when a Jew gets saved, they are not supposed to call themselves a messianic Jew. They are to simply call themselves a Christian.

so then why do the other jews (who are chosen) get left behind to be killed when you and the Body get raptured before the tribulation.

how do they get saved in that DISPENSATION.

And yes I do believe that baptism, water baptism is an ordinance that should be followed today for every Christian.

That is once he gets saved, he should partake in water baptism as a way to identify with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

Water Baptisim is an ordinance that symboliccaly indentifies us as new creatures in Christ.

do people in the tribulation dispensation - which you and the Church are not here for - baptize in water.
why would they.

 

[iamsoandso]

I'm still stuck on the first sentence,,,,"the answer is no.the 144,000 are not Christians at all.they are Jews from the 12 tribes of Israel:",,,,,,are you saying they are there and sealed with the name of god(so they have obtained the father),,,,but they are not christian. is there any other way to the father than than through the son?,,,,

that is we agreeing with this statement have the 144,000 being saved and in the presence of the father by some other method than the son.,,,,,see john chapter 10,,,,john 10;9,,,,,,"i am the door",,,if they are saved and they entered by the only door(Christ crucified),,,then they are christian(acts 4;12).,,,,,,there are not one group that can come by one method and another that come in by another,,,,,,,,,,

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.


Dumb Peter! Doesn't Peter know that Jesus came to replace Israel with the church? And here he is saying that Jesus is the Saviour in order to give repentance to Israel and forgive them of their sins?

A little satire. Most of you probably know me by now that I teach we Christians are Biblical Israel. The scriptures are so much smoother and threaded evenly together when there is no dispensation, but one body in Christ, one nation, and one God and one covenant with the same laws.

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Keep in mind ma'am that the book of Acts is a transitional book.

And no, the church is not Israel. The church has not replaced Israel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are correct. one must rightly divide, but what makes you think you are?

It is beliefs like this which gets people to deny dispensational theology. God temple in the NT will be the same as the temple in the tribulational period. God is not going to work through the temple anymore. Why Go back to the symbol when the symbol has already been fulfilled in CHrist.

People in the tribulation will be saved the same as those today. And have since the begining of time. By faith in God removing their sin by his mercy through redemption.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How is this important at all?
According to Dispensationalism, we will all be raptured before any of this takes place, so WHAT IS THE POINT IN STUDYING THE BOOK OF REVELATION IF YOU BELIEVE IN PRE-TRIB RAPTURE?

You must admit that the Dispensational view of Revelation is either wrong, or it is right but totally unimportant.

Not all dispys are pretrib rapture.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is very important LT. Because if you do not obey the command which is given in 2 Timothy 2:15, you will make a mess of the Bible.

The point in studying the book of revelation is to learn more about the word of God and Bible Prophecy.

When you are not dispensational, you cannot truly take the Bible literally. You have to allegorize the Scriptures.

Catholics are not dispensational. And neither are Charismatics.


Ever wonder why there are so many denominations out there?

Because a lot of Christians do not obey the command in 2 Timothy 2:15:


15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

lol I did nto know salvation was dependent on how you interpret revelation. This is heresy in itself

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There are somethings which are allegorical and symbollic. That should be very clear to any serious student of the Scriptures. And yeah, while the book of Revelation has a lot of symbology. It is still to be taken literally as a whole in regard to the events that it foretells. For instance there will be watern turned into blood. There will be locusts that have the faces of men and hair like women. And fo forth.


The teachings of James are also literal. He teaches that in the time of Jacob's trouble, that faith without works is DEAD.


Also, who said that the words of Jesus were allegory??


I take the words of Jesus literally. For instance Jesus spoke and preached on the horrors of a burning Hell. That is LITERAL. It is not an allegory.


Understand LT, that we are to allow the Scriptures to interpret the Scriptures (1 Cor. 2:13)

Um James teaches that faith without works is dead in his day, In our day and every day. where do you get this stuff??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 prove rapture/resurrection, but not pre-trib. Those which are alive are caught up after the resurrection of the dead. Where does the Resurrection take place? Rev 20:5 talks about the 1st Resurrection. After the return of Christ at Armageddon.

1 Corinthians 15:50-58 speaks of the Resurrection, not rapture. Note that it say at the "last trump", not "before the 1st trump". This will not happen before the tribulation, but after.

Therefore, pre-trib is not a literal interpretation. Dispensationalism is pre-trib. Therefore Dispensationalism is not literal interpretation.

Again not true bro. Lets get this right. I hate being told I believe something I do not believe..

 

[iamsoandso]

That is a good question Homwardbound.


And the answer is no. The 144,000 are not Christians at all. They are Jews from the twelve tribes of the Children of Israel:


7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. - Revelation 7:1-8 (King James Bible)




14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. - Revelation 14:1-5 (King James Bible)

after you greet homwardbound,,,,then you say,"(no),,,the 144.000 are not christian at all",,,,,but then at the end of your post you provide the scriptures rev.14;1-5,,,in rev.14;3 its states that the 144,000 are,,,,rev.14;4 "they who follow the lamb(Christ)whithersoever he goeth.",,,and "first-fruits unto god(father) and to the lamb(christ/christianity),,,,how then are they not christian?,,,did you make the first comment by accident(we are all human),,,,and then provide scripture proving they(the 144,000) do in fact follow Christianity(the lamb) ?,,,,

 

[zone]

You are correct. one must rightly divide, but what makes you think you are?

It is beliefs like this which gets people to deny dispensational theology.

fo sho eg

http://www.theopedia.com/Hyper_dispensationalism

quite a few with this bizarre combo.
eventually its easy to spot.

love zone

 

[LT]

Again not true bro. Lets get this right. I hate being told I believe something I do not believe..

I'm sorry EG. I made a generalization that is not true. I have actually made several unloving remarks during this thread, and I am sure that I have offended others. I went too far several times, and I hope you guys can overlook my attitude and forgive me.

 

[zone]

Keep in mind ma'am that the book of Acts is a transitional book.

And no, the church is not Israel. The church has not replaced Israel.

http://www.theopedia.com/Hyper_dispensationalism

 

[ChosenbyHim]

You just divided Scripture alright... into 3 pieces that are not separated within the Bible. Do you not see how twisted that is?! It specifically says in Scripture exactly what and when the 1st Resurrection is, and you have the audacity to change the definition to fit with your doctrine?!

LT, in the Scriptures there is clearly more than one resurrection, I mentioned them in the previous post to you (Matt. 27:52-53, 1 Thess. 4:16-17, and Rev. 20:4).



Now let us read Revelation 20:1-10:


20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. - Revelation 20:1-10 (King James Bible)




Now notice what verse 6 says of Rev. 20:


Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



That one verse shows that the first resurrection is a general Resurrection. How can we know this?


Well think about it LT, are you afraid or concerned that you could be cast into the lake of fire?? (This is not a trick question).


Your answer should be a big NO. Why?


Because if you are saved, then you know that your destination is fixed. You are predestined to be in Heaven with Jesus Christ in Glory. And you are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:5-14, & Romans 8:29).


You are part of the body of Christ and you cannot lose your salvation.


So now let me ask you LT, knowing this truth, does the second death (Lake of Fire) have any power over you?

Of course NOT!!


The the phrase: "First Resurrection" must be referring to all saved and redeemed saints who have ever been resurrected and will be in Heaven in Eternity.



Also the phrase: "First Resurrection" only appears two times in the Authorized King James Bible. Now if it only refers to the resurrection of the tribulation martyrs (Rev. 20:4) as you imply, well then what about the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the Old Testament saints with Him at Jerusalem (Matt. 27:52-53), and the resurrection at the Rapture (1 Thess. 4:16-18)?



Do you not think that those two resurrections (Matt. 27:52-53 & 1 Thess. 4:16-18) would be a part of the First Resurrection since all who partake in the First Resurrection are blessed and holy. ?


And also consider the fact that the Second Death has NO POWER at all over all who partake in the First Resurrection.



Just consider that LT.

What Scripture could possibly support support separating the 1st Resurrection into 3 pieces? Dispensationalists just made that up because they are unwilling to let go of pre-trib rapture, even though there is no verse in the whole Bible that even suggests pre-trib rapture.

LT, just deal with what the Scriptures teach. And consider the questions which I just asked you. Revelation 20:6 clearly teaches that all who partake in the First Resurrection are blessed and holy and that the Second Death (Lake of Fire) has NO POWER over them.

1 Cor 15:52 shows us that that that mystery is revealed at the Last Trumpet, not before the 1st.

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. - 1 Corinthians 15:52 (King James Bible)


It doesn't say the last trumpet. It says the last trump.