No one knows Christ exact date of birth. You can celebrate it everyday if you want. Just by following him it's a celebration. But we celebrate Christmas in our house. I am sure we've gone over board like my parents did. My husband and I don't exchange gifts because we save it for the kids. I take that back I buy him socks every year. He's always surprised. I admit I am a little bah humbug about Christmas because I don't like rushing around. But I love spending time with my family.
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T
Christmas can get a bit busy but we were never truly spoiled as children or teenagers. We received a few gifts. Usually, a book, an article of clothing, some lollies and maybe a cheap toy. Every few years we received something a bit more costly in place of one of the presents. But we were content with that. It's more than some children received. My favourite part of Christmas Eve was our church's Christmas production. We're of German origin (good Lutherans - lol) so we would (and still do) open our presents on Christmas Eve. Once back from church, we'd listen to some Christmas music, talk and open our gifts together - one at a time, going around the family. They're special memories.
My Mom's Swedish family always opened gifts on Christmas eve too. Now we celebrate with my husbands family on Christmas Eve. I love Christmas eve. I know this is weird but sometimes on Christmas Eve when everyone is asleep , I will sit by myself on my front porch at midnight. My church , which is a block away plays bells. It's so beautiful Especially if it's snowing. I will sit outside and pray and hopefully not get kidnapped.
C
I think I'm a long way from having my own kids, but I've definitely considered not exchanging presents on Christmas in the future or at least in the bountiful way that most people give presents.
My reasoning: I've seen how my young nieces and nephews idealize Santa and only look forward to opening their Christmas presents (one even asked me one time if Christmas was Santa's birthday and it broke my heart). To a child, the allure of new presents will naturally be much greater than celebrating Christ's birth or fulfilling his commands to us. I would ideally take away those distractions and try to focus the holiday season on helping and giving to the needy and living as Jesus said to live. I will still celebrate Christmas with gatherings and traditions, but with a more family and Jesus-centered approach.
My reasoning: I've seen how my young nieces and nephews idealize Santa and only look forward to opening their Christmas presents (one even asked me one time if Christmas was Santa's birthday and it broke my heart). To a child, the allure of new presents will naturally be much greater than celebrating Christ's birth or fulfilling his commands to us. I would ideally take away those distractions and try to focus the holiday season on helping and giving to the needy and living as Jesus said to live. I will still celebrate Christmas with gatherings and traditions, but with a more family and Jesus-centered approach.
For me....
His death and resurrection, yes. At Passover.
His birth? While I'm certainly thankful for it, I don't celebrate it specifically. There isn't a Biblical instruction to celebrate it, nor is there a Biblical example to do so. The only reason anyone started celebrating it was because of syncretism with an originally pagan holiday. Throughout scripture, God tells His people not to have anything to do with the religions and idols of the rest of the world. If other folks want to celebrate it, then that's between them and God.
Instead, we celebrate the feasts and holidays God told us to.
His death and resurrection, yes. At Passover.
His birth? While I'm certainly thankful for it, I don't celebrate it specifically. There isn't a Biblical instruction to celebrate it, nor is there a Biblical example to do so. The only reason anyone started celebrating it was because of syncretism with an originally pagan holiday. Throughout scripture, God tells His people not to have anything to do with the religions and idols of the rest of the world. If other folks want to celebrate it, then that's between them and God.
Instead, we celebrate the feasts and holidays God told us to.
H
Right, because that's the spirit in which people display Christmas trees.
Seriously, are you a Jehovah's Witness?
That's the kind of paranoid rationale they use.
No, Jesus was not born on December 25, but it's a good day to commemorate His birth.
Maybe you think it's a coincidence that Jesus Christ is called the Son, and so is that life-giving orb in the sky?
Your Molech analogy is asinine, and may be better suited
for a discussion on actual child sacrifice, e.g., abortion.
Seriously, are you a Jehovah's Witness?
That's the kind of paranoid rationale they use.
When did not celebrating Babylonian sun gods become wrong? The Messiah was not born on DEC25, every sun god in existence was. Pine trees and Santa are more pagan than harry potter...setting a child in "santas lap" comes from people stting their child in the glowing hot hands of Molech in child sacrifice ritul, and the "putting the branch" to their nose, the evergreen branch...
Yeremyah 10:1-6, "Hear the word which Yahweh speaks concerning you, O house of Israyl. This is what Yahweh says: aDo not learn the way of the heathen and do not be deceived by the signs of heaven; though the heathen are deceived by them For the religious customs of the peoples are vain; worthless! For one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They decorate it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, so that it will not move; topple over. They are upright, like a palm tree, but they cannot speak; they must be carried, because they cannot go by themselves. Do not give them reverence! They cannot do evil, nor is it in them to do righteousness!"
Yeremyah 10:1-6, "Hear the word which Yahweh speaks concerning you, O house of Israyl. This is what Yahweh says: aDo not learn the way of the heathen and do not be deceived by the signs of heaven; though the heathen are deceived by them For the religious customs of the peoples are vain; worthless! For one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They decorate it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, so that it will not move; topple over. They are upright, like a palm tree, but they cannot speak; they must be carried, because they cannot go by themselves. Do not give them reverence! They cannot do evil, nor is it in them to do righteousness!"
Maybe you think it's a coincidence that Jesus Christ is called the Son, and so is that life-giving orb in the sky?
Your Molech analogy is asinine, and may be better suited
for a discussion on actual child sacrifice, e.g., abortion.
T
In the industrial revolution, production of 1,000's and 10,000's of a product were suddenly possible where 10 or 15 might have been produced in the past. The producers got no money from just producing, they had to also sell the product. Whatever they did not sell became inventory, which costs money to store. American culture was malleable to accommodate the "problem". Higher wages were quickly spent, making a very profitable multiplier effect. Americans were encourage to spend their money quickly, to "need"many things. If people ran out of money (but wanted more product) it was to the producer's advantage to give the product today (avoid inventory costs) and accept promise of payment later (credit). Today, Americans are in debt, on the average, for about 20 years wages. We designed our financial system to accommodate this - it causes no problems.
When we make disciples of all nations, should we export American cultural holiday customs that are unique to American economic history, such as loading up the kids with so many presents that, the week before the holiday THE PRESENTS are what they are thinking about?
My kids can get presents on 25 Dec. If there are no presents, that should not put a damper on the holiday. And the week before the holiday we are NOT talking about presents.
When we make disciples of all nations, should we export American cultural holiday customs that are unique to American economic history, such as loading up the kids with so many presents that, the week before the holiday THE PRESENTS are what they are thinking about?
My kids can get presents on 25 Dec. If there are no presents, that should not put a damper on the holiday. And the week before the holiday we are NOT talking about presents.
There's 364 more days to celebrate someone with gifts, so why should it hurt if someone is deprived from a certain tradition? Is it because that they want to keep up with the Jones'? Monkey see, monkey do... If a child does something good, they should receive a reward for their good deeds, not because of a tradition. So if a child has been bad, should a parent deprive them from Christmas? People are now expecting to be rewarded on traditional holidays without performing good deeds. Even there are prisoners expecting rewards for their deeds on these traditional holidays. Pretty soon all people will start thinking that they should be able to enter into heaven good or bad, because it's Christmas.
Being Catholic or not has nothing to do with celebrating Communion......
Luke 22:19) And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
15 .) And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 .) For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 .) And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 .) For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19 .) And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 .) Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Being obedient to the instructions of Jesus is what it is about. Why on earth would any body of believers not celebrate Communion?
Luke 22:19) And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
15 .) And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 .) For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 .) And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 .) For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19 .) And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 .) Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Being obedient to the instructions of Jesus is what it is about. Why on earth would any body of believers not celebrate Communion?
thats a very good explanation you gave from scripture. i nor anyone in my family "never were not grateful" for Christ being born,but every day thankful. the premise of the acceptance is that we believe that Christ was "born in the flesh" so i rejoice that he was born every day,but also i then am brought to tears because the same beautiful baby was also crucified because i was a sinner. so in his birth i rejoice that he was born,and i cry because of the necessary of that baby's birth,i cry with great thanks giving that he died to redeem me,but again i am in tears because he was put to death at skull and i "a sinner" was the reason why.
that is if i had not disobeyed as i walked my walk in life the baby born and growing to a man would not have needed to die in the manner we know. i i confess i am the reason he was both born and crucified,the blood is on my head. again the blood that is in truth on my head,he turned from my condemnation and poured the same blood on my head and he and his father counted it as grace.
it remains that in my heart that the birth of that baby is a good tiding. my fear is the scripture you quoted from Paul. that mankind turned again to things they were delivered from. mankind in the days before the birth of Christ descended to worshiping by means of idols standing before them carved and decorated by the hands of those who created them. then the early church explained this error and many left from it. then years later they made stone carvings of the saints and set them before themselves. some seeing the error of this(that it had crept back in),,,broke away from the "particular church"..
at first they(the protestant churches) did not set idols in front of themselves when they reflected in worship but as i stated in another post a little added each generation. and then each generation of children were born seeing the manner of worship,and each generation adding something to it as they could afford to do.
one generation after the other adding thing to see and touch. one set certain days,another added the trees then the next thought to put candles on it. then the next added decorations of nuts and fruit,the next homemade decorations. in the years that followed they discovered electricity then the light-bulbs than that generation added them to to the trees and the next to the outdoor windows and the next to the soffets around the roof.
we now need to see and touch and taste the dinner rolls,the turkey,the cranberry sauce and the pies,the chocolate covered cherries. every generation adding one more thing to see and touch in the worship of god. and be anything said to them by those who see it and they who see to see and touch the things become defensive. there are men in the world and their craft is to carve statues of the manger and Mary and joseph and the sheep and wise men that many may set them before theirselves to worship god.
and others of like occupations(acts 19;24-28) and craft that grow the trees and with their hands make the ornaments. others decorate them with paint and glitter. one craftsman inspects them while another markets them. and be it pointed out to any that they are idol makers they with one accord will say,,,"this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people,saying that they be no god's,which are made with hands(acts;19;26",,
but the same as jesus was born as a baby, people are born as babies and then grow up and see the things with their eyes and touch them with their hands. that is it is assumed by the children that the ones of knowledge then present had closely examined the things they are handing them and the customs they are teaching them. so the children then grow into adults and the customs they preformed all the years of their life they repeat over and over,and it is quite a difficult thing to examine a thing that is preformed from birth to adulthood,,,,
in all fairness the same that i say i then also at one time and even now had the necessity to examine in my own house. i also grew from a baby and then an adult in the same world with the same customs being shown to me by mankind as all. i tell you a secret,although i see one thing and am strong,another i am weak in because i saw it not until after i recieved the teachings of it's custom. and as well as i understand it is extremely diffacult to turn from one custom i learned from youth and learn my way back out,i then understand that whatever custom we have learned in error if it came in a little here and a little there,it will not quickly be untaught,but a step by step process,,,,
the main part of the thread,,as i see it is the word,,"kids",,,by no means do i think we should say flat out "no,no more",,,,they would be hurt and cry and i don't think Christ desires that. what does it hurt for a child to receive a toy? well on the other hand what harm is in that same child receiving errors taught into the faith?,,,it's really a simple thing to ask our own minds,,,"if it was wrong for all of those of old both Jew and gentile to make things and use them to worship god then why is it correct to create things and set them all up to worship god with today?",,,,and then what,what is the correct kind,loving way to reverse it then?,,,,,
H
I know you well enough to know that you're essentially an Orthodox Jew.
This is one of the Holiest days recorded in the Bible:
Luke 2
[SUP]4[/SUP] And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David
[SUP]5[/SUP] To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
[SUP]6[/SUP] And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
[SUP]7[/SUP] And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
[SUP]8[/SUP] And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
[SUP]9[/SUP] And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
[SUP]10[/SUP] And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
[SUP]11[/SUP] For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
[SUP]12[/SUP] And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
[SUP]13[/SUP] And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
[SUP]14[/SUP] Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
[SUP]15[/SUP] And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
[SUP]16[/SUP] And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
[SUP]17[/SUP] And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
[SUP]18[/SUP] And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
[SUP]19[/SUP] But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.
[SUP]20[/SUP] And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.
It's good to celebrate it.
This is one of the Holiest days recorded in the Bible:
Luke 2
[SUP]4[/SUP] And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David
[SUP]5[/SUP] To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
[SUP]6[/SUP] And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
[SUP]7[/SUP] And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
[SUP]8[/SUP] And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
[SUP]9[/SUP] And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
[SUP]10[/SUP] And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
[SUP]11[/SUP] For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
[SUP]12[/SUP] And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
[SUP]13[/SUP] And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
[SUP]14[/SUP] Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
[SUP]15[/SUP] And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
[SUP]16[/SUP] And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
[SUP]17[/SUP] And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
[SUP]18[/SUP] And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
[SUP]19[/SUP] But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.
[SUP]20[/SUP] And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.
It's good to celebrate it.
