Kick Them Out!

[zone]

Has your church ever had to ask someone to leave the church?
If so, for what?
If so, how did you go about it?
And if so, how was it perceived by the congregation?

not since i've been attending.
and have never heard that it happened.

 

[zone]

If Jesus paid the world an anonymous visit in the flesh and spoke all that was on His mind and in His heart He would get kicked out of every church and banned from every Internet discussion forum.

how do you know what is on His mind and heart?
kicked out of every church?

doubt it.

 

[SarahM777]

not since i've been attending.
and have never heard that it happened.

I've seen it once in my folks church. The man passed on a few years ago from complication from AIDS. He was the pastor of the church and he was arrested for solicitation of a male prostitute and had a gay lover. It is the only time I know of it that it reached the point of going before the congregation. He was given two options one was to step down for a time and seek Christian counselling,or the other was he would be let go,he chose the later. It put a major strain on the congregation,quite a few people left.

 

[notuptome]

Biblical example in 1 Cor 5. Good old fashioned hot preaching from the pulpit shining the bright light of Gods word into the hearts of the folks present generally keeps this kind away but as 1 Cor 5 show some still insist on causing embarrassment and shame on the Lord and the assembly of the saints.

Mercy and compassion yes fellowship no.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Bazman]

We had a man in our church a couple of years ago approach a married woman and tell her that the Lord said to him that he would be her husband someday. He said this within earshot of her kids. Another elder in our church and myself approached him later and told him that his actions weren't appropriate and that if couldn't see that it was wrong, he would need to leave the church. He said he would get back to us the next week.

So myself and 2 others elders met with him, and he was still absolutely sure that God told him that, and told him to tell the woman. At that point, I said that I knew for a fact that God wasn't speaking to him, because it was completely out of order, and there was no support or verification of this "word" and that he couldn't be a part of the church until he could accept that.

I ran into him last week (I hadn't seen him in about 2 years) and he made some nice small talk. He closed by asking me when he could come back to the church. I told him that when he was ready, he could sit down with the leadership and we could talk over the things that happened. He got all huffy and walked away.

It would be a great thing for him to be restored, but people can't just walk back in pretending everything is fine, or that it never happened. That's the proper balance between mercy and accountability.

Amen. After all it sounds as though your church want him to come back but he has to realise what he said was completely wrong. You are doing this out of love for him and so I pray he will come to his senses and repent and then be restored back into your Church.

 

[Cobus]

Ok so you did two thirds of the command to get rid of him, why not just stone the man? Come on Kohen Matt.. and then you get an AMEN on what you did in stead of a proper repremand that you are all hypocrates...

First of all the man did ONE SIN... ONCE.... That means you did right, is repremanding the man. GOOD SO FAR...
Then you went again to the man for the SAME SIN, he did NOT COMMIT AGAIN... WHY? To repremand him a second time on hte same sin? That is NOT what God says you should do.... The man at least had to tell the woman AGAIN... He did not so you were in ERROR.... Sorry you did NOT do this correct. I think it is LAME to pass judgement TWICE on one sin... LAME and EVIL....

Man I am sorry you people should go to the man and tell him you were in error. How can he repent if you gave him no chance. At least do it this way... The ONLY right way is God's way... You did it in two steps God says do it in three, there is no shortcuts to God's Gospel.... Sorry my friend the man and you are in error...

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

 

[KohenMatt]

Ok so you did two thirds of the command to get rid of him, why not just stone the man? Come on Kohen Matt.. and then you get an AMEN on what you did in stead of a proper repremand that you are all hypocrates...

First of all the man did ONE SIN... ONCE.... That means you did right, is repremanding the man. GOOD SO FAR...
Then you went again to the man for the SAME SIN, he did NOT COMMIT AGAIN... WHY? To repremand him a second time on hte same sin? That is NOT what God says you should do.... The man at least had to tell the woman AGAIN... He did not so you were in ERROR.... Sorry you did NOT do this correct. I think it is LAME to pass judgement TWICE on one sin... LAME and EVIL....

Man I am sorry you people should go to the man and tell him you were in error. How can he repent if you gave him no chance. At least do it this way... The ONLY right way is God's way... You did it in two steps God says do it in three, there is no shortcuts to God's Gospel.... Sorry my friend the man and you are in error...

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

He didn't repent of the sin to anyone. Not to the woman, her children, us, or God. If he had repented, which he was told he needed to do the 1st and 2nd time, all would have been good. But he didn't. It doesn't matter if he did it a 2nd time. He did it once and thought it was just fine and dandy for him to do it. Are you saying it's OK for men to approach married women and tell them that he will be their husband? Is it OK for a man to do this in front of her children? What if he got "another word from the Lord" about another woman? The Pastor's wife? A woman whose marriage is strained and on the edge of divorce, and this finally pushes her over the edge?

The job of a pastor and the leadership is to take care of the flock that has been given them and to watch out for them. This woman and her children didn't feel safe, and rightfully so.

 

[Charismatic-sts1]

I would not kick someone out before first talking to them yourself, if they repent no need, then a brother if they repent no need, then call them out in front of the congregation, if they don't repent by then ask them to leave.

I had a pastor kick my friend out of the church in secret because a girl claimed he ''touched'' her during a bible study. None of us who knew him believed it and he was torn up about it. They kicked him out and never let him back in. The girl apologized for lying and wrote a letter to the pastor with a confession, they still did not let him in. This is the wrong way to do it.

We had a member of our worship team confess that his friend and him were gay lovers, a member of a worship team confronted him about it and that is when he confessed to it. He continued in the gay relationship so the pastor and the person who suspected it talked to him. He still did not repent, so the worship team announced he was dismissed from the team but welcome in the church. He left the church. I would say this is a proper application given that the person was serving the church and had unrepented sin. Some disagreed that he should have been let go because they believed in gay rights but they moved on without him the pastor explained it was ''unrepented sin''.

If there was a major saftey issue with the person then I would get rid of them promptly to protect the flock.

 

[tdrew777]

He didn't repent of the sin to anyone. Not to the woman, her children, us, or God. If he had repented, which he was told he needed to do the 1st and 2nd time, all would have been good. But he didn't. It doesn't matter if he did it a 2nd time. He did it once and thought it was just fine and dandy for him to do it. Are you saying it's OK for men to approach married women and tell them that he will be their husband? Is it OK for a man to do this in front of her children? What if he got "another word from the Lord" about another woman? The Pastor's wife? A woman whose marriage is strained and on the edge of divorce, and this finally pushes her over the edge?

The job of a pastor and the leadership is to take care of the flock that has been given them and to watch out for them. This woman and her children didn't feel safe, and rightfully so.

Every reasonable person understands this - it did not bear repeating. There is only one person in the discussion who does not understand this, and you will not likely convince him. Please do not be distracted - we get it!

 

[tdrew777]

The process of Matthew 18 is meant to be full of grace. There are occasions when the right thing to do is take a year or more on one of the three steps. But the bottom line is that Christian counseling, unlike secular counseling, has teeth. If some one does not will to stop sinning (that is different from falling back into the same sin - if he WANTS to stop sinning we should forgive him 7 * 70 times per day), if some one will not recognize their sin, it is NOT OK with the church. Things do NOT continue as normal.

 

[tdrew777]

The fact that this process is so rarely heeded leads to
1) Unrepentant sin in the church
2) Gossip - when there are people "in fellowship" who do not want to stop sinning, the congregation does not know how to treat them.

 

[Apostol2013]

Cobus... it's because "it clash with their church practise."

yes but many churches do not adhere for example lets look at some scripture : 1Co 14:34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
now lets look at more : 1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
in the churches there was a lot of disorder due to unleavened sects or individuals one sect was the gnostics amongst many but during that time many women were taking leadership roles and the apostles put a stop to that for the reason God had put a structure form an order in wich things ought to be (ti 2:13-14 and 1cor11:3 ) the reason women were to learn from their husbands was primarily to keep the household in order and keep order during service and that it was important in the multiplication process of the church , today we have whole households where the man has been neutered of his dominance over his own home , the purpose of this was to keep the family structure and society even in balance or havent you heard we are the light of the world . a light is like a beacon to guide the way , now the church is so dimmed, that all structure has been done away with and it is so evident in society so much disfunction and as a result a low morality and even a risen crime rate we have a society that believes being gay is natural and it is not two men cannot produce a child and it is an abomination to the Lord and to every moraly correct individual even scientist can tell you it is wrong , rapist pedofiles the worst degenerates of society all around us , wich is not a surprise of the coming plagues written in revelations ..... now do chhurch practices superceed the word of God ?

 

[Apostol2013]

and yes i have a friend excommunicated from the congregation for violence againt an individual but it is Gods church a simple repentance would of been fine but some churches are so fleshy...

 

[DragonSlayer]

One church I attended, the pastor made a public statement asking the church members to not have a friendship with a lady. The Pastor said she was asked to leave because she was selling and using marijuana. This lady claimed that God made it so it was OK to use and sell. She was encouraging Christians to use this drug.

A few weeks later she repented and was invited back into the church.

Also one time at this same church, a teen was wearing a T shirt with a beer can on the back. A man came up to the teen and scolded him for wearing that to church. The pastor over heard the man speaking to the teen and corrected him. The pastor said all are welcome no matter how they are dressed.

How could it be ? Aren't Christians supposed to show good example to the world and dress correctly ?

 

[DragonSlayer]

You have exemplified the teaching, "Judge not by appearances but with right judgment."

No way !
God never said that in accordance for people to dress in awful ways !
God does not condone immodest dressing !

 

[DragonSlayer]

We had a man in our church a couple of years ago approach a married woman and tell her that the Lord said to him that he would be her husband someday. He said this within earshot of her kids. Another elder in our church and myself approached him later and told him that his actions weren't appropriate and that if couldn't see that it was wrong, he would need to leave the church. He said he would get back to us the next week.

So myself and 2 others elders met with him, and he was still absolutely sure that God told him that, and told him to tell the woman. At that point, I said that I knew for a fact that God wasn't speaking to him, because it was completely out of order, and there was no support or verification of this "word" and that he couldn't be a part of the church until he could accept that.

I ran into him last week (I hadn't seen him in about 2 years) and he made some nice small talk. He closed by asking me when he could come back to the church. I told him that when he was ready, he could sit down with the leadership and we could talk over the things that happened. He got all huffy and walked away.

It would be a great thing for him to be restored, but people can't just walk back in pretending everything is fine, or that it never happened. That's the proper balance between mercy and accountability.

How could God destroy marriage ? Only Satan could tell anyone to destroy marriage !

 

[Cobus]

He didn't repent of the sin to anyone. Not to the woman, her children, us, or God. If he had repented, which he was told he needed to do the 1st and 2nd time, all would have been good. But he didn't. It doesn't matter if he did it a 2nd time. He did it once and thought it was just fine and dandy for him to do it. Are you saying it's OK for men to approach married women and tell them that he will be their husband? Is it OK for a man to do this in front of her children? What if he got "another word from the Lord" about another woman? The Pastor's wife? A woman whose marriage is strained and on the edge of divorce, and this finally pushes her over the edge?

The job of a pastor and the leadership is to take care of the flock that has been given them and to watch out for them. This woman and her children didn't feel safe, and rightfully so.

My friend nobody will know if he would not have broke down when charged in front of the church, you slipped up, just make sure next time you do it God's way. We cannot blame our slip ups on ANY reason. God gave us the Word to follow to the letter. I onlt show you your error, I do not jusde.

Let me show you one more thing... No use we chase out that leaven but leave other leaven... Just stick to God's Word and your church will be so blessed. I judge not the people or the the man, I jusdge the happenings. the actions, and neither the man nor you were following the Word of God. Next time do it right, and even the whole church will sin less....

I guess I am advizing you to move to this.....Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
Best of blessings my friend.

It is evil to even think that stuff let alone the man say it to a married woman, but you have to REBUKE, REPROOF and REPREMAND as God says you should, you cannot make up your own system,,, Stick with God's Word. You also became guilty for not doing it God's way. That is what i say.... I do not condone his behavour or yours.... Both were unbiblical.

 

[LT]

How could it be ? Aren't Christians supposed to show good example to the world and dress correctly ?

You are right, but we aren't dressing modestly to show a 'good example', but to keep a pure testimony/witness of the power of Christ.
The other thing brought up is whether the Church is supposed to be a shining example of holiness, or a place for the wicked to come for grace.
If we make rules about what can be worn at church, then no one guilty of immodesty would be able to get saved at church.
When making these decisions, we need to take into consideration how long the person has been a Christian, and if it was done out of ignorance, willfullness, or open rebellion.

 

[DragonSlayer]

Ok so you did two thirds of the command to get rid of him, why not just stone the man? Come on Kohen Matt.. and then you get an AMEN on what you did in stead of a proper repremand that you are all hypocrates...

First of all the man did ONE SIN... ONCE.... That means you did right, is repremanding the man. GOOD SO FAR...
Then you went again to the man for the SAME SIN, he did NOT COMMIT AGAIN... WHY? To repremand him a second time on hte same sin? That is NOT what God says you should do.... The man at least had to tell the woman AGAIN... He did not so you were in ERROR.... Sorry you did NOT do this correct. I think it is LAME to pass judgement TWICE on one sin... LAME and EVIL....

Man I am sorry you people should go to the man and tell him you were in error. How can he repent if you gave him no chance. At least do it this way... The ONLY right way is God's way... You did it in two steps God says do it in three, there is no shortcuts to God's Gospel.... Sorry my friend the man and you are in error...

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Hi Cobus !

Do you realize that person you call " man " tried to destroy marriage and he never repented ?
Do you realize that " man " pretended God wanted to destroy marriage and a whole family ?
How could you condemn this Church for doing the right thing ?

I would congratulate them instead !
Bravo guys for kicking out this filthy evil doer who wanted to destroy marriage in the name of God !

 

[DragonSlayer]

You are right, but we aren't dressing modestly to show a 'good example', but to keep a pure testimony/witness of the power of Christ.
The other thing brought up is whether the Church is supposed to be a shining example of holiness, or a place for the wicked to come for grace.
If we make rules about what can be worn at church, then no one guilty of immodesty would be able to get saved at church.
When making these decisions, we need to take into consideration how long the person has been a Christian, and if it was done out of ignorance, willfullness, or open rebellion.

Scriptures please ! I trust in the Lord's Word only ! We, Christians, are the Light of the World ! If you don't like the idea you have to show good example to the World, then I guess it's not with me you have a problem, but it's with the Lord's Word, and you're not the only one, for many in Christianity are deceived by the wiles of the evil one !

It's written : " Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour,
wherewith shall it be salted?
it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick;
and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. " Matthew 5:13-16 ( KJV )

Maranatha !