The Importance of Rightly Dividing the word of Truth

[ChosenbyHim]

so, the Acts of The Apostles, (really, the Acts of the Triune God) tells us about God's thorough-going change of plans, after the jews as a nation rejected the Kingdom, causing the kingdom to be CANCELLED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE?

how can it be a transitional book?

Zone, how can you not tell that the book of Acts is a transitional book? It starts out with Peter and finishes with Paul taking the Gospel to the Gentiles.

according to your Wrongly Divide (and conquer) Dogma, Acts would be the inauguration of the Mystery Gap Church Age.
the jewish nation had already apparently rejected the Kingdom offer....meaning God had already pulled together the contingency Plan (B) Parenthesis Gap Mystery.

God already knew what would happen. Read Romans 11.

what were the jews who rejected the kingdom (preferring to double-down for a better deal?) doing, while the other poor jews (who got second best with the Mystery Gap Church) were busy being baptized for the remission of sins in Jesus' Name?

because i would want to see where Jesus said he had two sets of jews He was working with - the Church jews and the future kingdom jews.

Zone I already told you, today in the Dispensation of the Grace of God, when a Jew gets saved, he becomes a Christian. When a Gentile gets saved, he becomes a Christian. There is neither Jew nor Greek (See Gal. 3:28).


In this Dispensation, we have both Jews and Gentiles being "called out" to make up and form the Body of Christ (Eph. 2:12-22).

which ones get to be with the Father on earth in the Temple? the ones who cancelled the kingdom?

Could you clarify your question here?

oh well....the other jews who became christians will get to be with the Father's Son.
better than nothing i guess.

Again, in the Church Age, both Jews and Gentiles are getting saved, and when they do, they become Christians.


In this Dispensation, Jews also have to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation.


A Jew does not get a free ticket into Heaven just because he is a Jew.


A Jew has to believe the Gospel just as a Gentile does.

 

[SarahM777]

I guess you never read the OT. where we see who literal babylon is. where she spread. and how Isreal was called out for commiting spiritual adultry with the gods of babylon. or the "mother of harlots"

next??

your supposed to be the church, If mother babylon comes and temps you to sleep with her Gods. then you will be playing the harlot.

this is what Israel did.

Again when the OT says that Babylon did these things was it the whole globe? That's either a yes or no.

Jeremiah 51

23 How broken and shattered is the hammer of the whole earth! How desolate isBabylon among the nations!


Jeremiah 50
7 Babylon was a gold cup in the Lord’s hand; she made the whole earth drunk. The nations drank her wine; therefore they have now gone mad.

41 “How Sheshak will be captured, the boast of the whole earth seized!How desolate Babylon will be among the nations!

49 “Babylon must fall because of Israel’s slain, just as the slain in all the earth have fallen because of Babylon.

Habakkuk 1

6 I am raising up the Babylonians, that ruthless and impetuous people, who sweep across the whole earth to seize dwellings not their own.

 

[zone]

How can you be so blind?

A harlot is a prostitute which causes the true bride to cheat. It is not Isreal.

uh....she acted the harlot.
played the harlot
behaved as a harlot.
cheated on God
paid her lovers to come to her (not like other harlots who are paid)

and so on.
like.....?

come on.

We have two names.

1. Babylon. Babylon is the mother of paganism

the mother of paganism?
we hear about israel committing adultery in Egypt first.

then she did again, in Babylon.

God says the sisters were prostitutes.
committed whoredoms.

New International Version
You engaged in prostitution with the Assyrians too, because you were insatiable; and even after that, you still were not satisfied.

New Living Translation
You have prostituted yourself with the Assyrians, too. It seems you can never find enough new lovers! And after your prostitution there, you still were not satisfied.

English Standard Version
You played the whore also with the Assyrians, because you were not satisfied; yes, you played the whore with them, and still you were not satisfied.

New American Standard Bible
"Moreover, you played the harlot with the Assyrians because you were not satisfied; you played the harlot with them and still were not satisfied.

that's pretty straight-forward EG.

2. Mother of harlots. The world system which tries to replace God.

what world system?

Jeremiah 3:1
"If a man divorces his wife and she leaves him and marries another man, should he return to her again? Would not the land be completely defiled? But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers-- would you now return to me?" declares the LORD.

Israel is non of these. and never has been

Jeremiah 2:20
"Long ago you broke off your yoke and tore off your bonds; you said, 'I will not serve you!' Indeed, on every high hill and under every spreading tree you lay down as a prostitute.

Jeremiah 3
New International Version
Therefore the showers have been withheld, and no spring rains have fallen. Yet you have the brazen look of a prostitute; you refuse to blush with shame.

New Living Translation
That's why even the spring rains have failed. For you are a brazen prostitute and completely shameless.

English Standard Version
Therefore the showers have been withheld, and the spring rain has not come; yet you have the forehead of a whore; you refuse to be ashamed.

 

[Praus]

How can you be so blind?

A harlot is a prostitute which causes the true bride to cheat. It is not Isreal.

We have two names.

1. Babylon. Babylon is the mother of paganism
2. Mother of harlots. The world system which tries to replace God.

Israel is non of these. and never has been

1 John 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.



Quote: "brand-name clothes and other consumer products".

link -> Age of child prostitutes in Israel dropping, report finds - National Israel News | Haaretz

Age of child prostitutes in Israel dropping, report finds

Knesset study cites cases of 11-year-olds used for commercial sex that are among the several thousands of teenagers involved in prostitution.

Neither government agencies nor welfare organizations have accurate information regarding the scope of youth prostitution in Israel according to a report on prostitution involving minors, submitted recently to the Knesset.

The Elem association for youth in distress believes that there are thousands of teenagers involved in prostitution here, yet from 2008 until July 2013, only 29 police files were opened against the clients of these young prostitutes, 12 of them during the first half of this year. Of the 12 cases opened this year, 10 have been transferred to the prosecution and two are still being investigated. Of the other 17 files, 12 were transferred to the prosecution; of those, one case from 2009 was prosecuted and four other investigations were closed, three for lack of evidence.

The report, written by the Knesset Research and Information Center and submitted to the Knesset subcommittee on the fight against trafficking in women and prostitution, states that child prostitutes come from all sectors of society – there are Jews and Arabs, religious and secular, new immigrants and minors who have no legal status in Israel, such as Palestinians and migrants. The report also supports the general assumption that the age at which children start working as prostitutes is dropping; research here and abroad shows that the average age is 13-14, though there have been cases of children as young as 11 being used for commercial sex.

Professionals generally agree that youth prostitution is closely linked to sexual abuse at home, parental neglect, problems in school, low socioeconomic status, gang membership and living in the streets with no safe shelter. However, the report’s authors also say that a new pattern of occasional prostitution is emerging among young people from normative families who have not dropped out of school. These youngsters are lured into sexual exploitation because they want money for brand-name clothes and other consumer products, or to improve their social status.

The report stresses that the Internet has become one of the primary arenas for commercial sexual exploitation of minors.

 

[zone]

Zone, how can you not tell that the book of Acts is a transitional book? It starts out with Peter and finishes with Paul taking the Gospel to the Gentiles.

the same gospel, dude.
it went to the jews first, just as promised, then to the gentiles.
it's only transitional in that it began with the jews (Christ; in Israel; Pentecost; in Jerusalem).
the same gospel was always intended to go to the whole world, not excluding jews, not excluding gentiles; not making a distinction.

unbelieving jews are considered as gentiles to The Lord (uncircumcised).
why can't you understand this?

Zone I already told you, today in the Dispensation of the Grace of God, when a Jew gets saved, he becomes a Christian. When a Gentile gets saved, he becomes a Christian. There is neither Jew nor Greek (See Gal. 3:28).

In this Dispensation, we have both Jews and Gentiles being "called out" to make up and form the Body of Christ (Eph. 2:12-22).

Again, in the Church Age, both Jews and Gentiles are getting saved, and when they do, they become Christians.

In this Dispensation, Jews also have to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation.

A Jew does not get a free ticket into Heaven just because he is a Jew.

A Jew has to believe the Gospel just as a Gentile does.

so if you just stay with the above in blue, you have it.
there is no other dispensation.

the King & Messiah came, the promises were fulfilled, the Great Harlot was punished,
the Covenant Curses were poured out.

just read this, okay?

Romans 11
31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

real simple.

 

[homwardbound]

Who said that flesh could save? I know I didn't.

The issue you seem to continue to miss Homwardbound is the very fact that Christians still deal with the old man, old nature. And any Christian who is honest enough will admit to still having struggles in the flesh.


Even Paul the apostle did (Read Romans 7).


And if a Christian such as Paul still had trouble in his flesh, well I can guarantee you that there are many Christians who still sin and come short of the glory of God.

And this Brother is why Paul said this:
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If one is dead to sin reckoned themselves to be dead by Christ's death how can flesh trouble one anymore?
If I am drowned to the rain, how can it trouble me any longer?
Read Romans 6:1-11 and see what Paul states about this and then read Romans 8:3 that says all sin is and has been condemned to flesh through the cross of Christ, at his death.
So as long as you do not believe you are dead to sin, by the death of Christ you will still sin period
That is all it is belief that sets you free in the finished works of Christ for you to be made Holy before Father and be made alive in the Spirit of Father and thus walk as Christ walked in the power of Father's lead, not flesh ever
So I think you seek after the Spirit and therefore there is no condemnation if you do, yet your flesh as well as many others is in the way, not reckoning yourself to be dead to it and are busy at working out your own salvation in fear and trembling.
God will show you in God's timing not mine or anyone else's, but you will see and either believe or you won't. I am trusting Father because Father knows all, and putting no confidence if flesh at all
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Sorry Chosen, that you have chosen a sinking ship!
There is no greater deception in the history of the Church, that Dispensationalism!

Wrong Excalibur.


Dispensationalism is the Biblical System of Bible Study. Start obeying the command given in 2 Timothy 2:15:


15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Bible)

This is basically what the unfaithful of Old Covenant Israel said right before they were destroyed!
'God is coming to save us and He is going to destroy all the rest of you' Correct?

This is what Dispensationalism basically proclaims, and prophecies; in any of its own scenarios!
'God is coming to save us and He is going to destroy all the rest of you' Good luck!

Excalibur, the Bible teaches that the Body of Christ will be taken off of the earth before the man of sin is revealed in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8.


The body of Christ cannot be here for the time of Jacob's trouble. We are not appointed to wrath ( 1 Thess. 5:9).


The time of Jacob's trouble is to bring unbelieving Israel into correction (Jeremiah 30). It is not for the Church. It is not the Church's trouble. It is the time of Jacob's (Israel's) trouble.


The Church is not Israel and Israel is not the Church.

It is the SAME EXACT THING, that destroyed the Church in the wilderness, wake up before your ship goes under!
many blessings


'

Excalibur I am already awake sir. I suggest you watch some good video sermons on the Biblical subject of Dispensational Bible Teaching.


Here is a really good video where brother Doug Stauffer discusses the Dispensations and differences of operation in each one.

Reconciling God's Word 3 Dr. Douglas D. Stauffer


[video=youtube;nDS4IkYvLx0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDS4IkYvLx0[/video]

​

Uploaded on Jun 20, 2011

CHANGED BY THE BOOK Play List Dr. Douglas D. Stauffer
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?p=PL4...
Douglas Stauffer presents his reasons for breaking up history into periods of biblical dispensations. Doug explains what these dispensations are and how they fit into God's relationship with mankind over the ages.
http://BibleDoug.com

ONE BOOK RIGHTLY DIVIDED
Systematically revealing the Bible's internal method of Bible study.
Visit http://www.rightlydidived.com to read excerpts from the book.

 

[starfield]

Wrong Excalibur.


Dispensationalism is the Biblical System of Bible Study. Start obeying the command given in 2 Timothy 2:15:


15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Bible)

Where do you get the idea that 2 Timothy 2:15 supports dispensationalism? The system was foreign when Paul wrote to Timothy but was invented in the mid-1800's by Darby.

Excalibur, the Bible teaches that the Body of Christ will be taken off of the earth before the man of sin is revealed in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8.


The body of Christ cannot be here for the time of Jacob's trouble. We are not appointed to wrath ( 1 Thess. 5:9).


The time of Jacob's trouble is to bring unbelieving Israel into correction (Jeremiah 30). It is not for the Church. It is not the Church's trouble. It is the time of Jacob's (Israel's) trouble.


The Church is not Israel and Israel is not the Church.

Jacob's trouble is history.

Excalibur I am already awake sir. I suggest you watch some good video sermons on the Biblical subject of Dispensational Bible Teaching.

You are asleep and your ship is sinking. It's high time you wake up and come out of this erroneous system.

Here is a really good video where brother Doug Stauffer discusses the Dispensations and differences of operation in each one...

Errors and more errors.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Where do you get the idea that 2 Timothy 2:15 supports dispensationalism? The system was foreign when Paul wrote to Timothy but was invented in the mid-1800's by Darby.

And where do you get the idea that Dispensationalism started with Darby??


Dispensationalism was taught in the Second Century.


Dispensational Bible Study and Teaching was NOT created by Darby

Jacob's trouble is history.

Wrong.

You need to study your Bible. The time of Jacob's trouble has not happened yet. It cannot happen until the Body of Christ is taken off of the earth (2 Thess. 2:7).

You are asleep and your ship is sinking. It's high time you wake up and come out of this erroneous system.

Again Starfield, you are wrong. I am awake and I know the truth by the grace of God.


Dispensational Bible Teaching is Biblical. Dispensationalism is the Biblical Method of Bible Study.


What happened Starfield? You used to believe the Biblical truth of the Pre-Trib. Rapture. How come you no longer believe it?


Didn't you also believe in the Biblical Doctrine of the Millennial Kingdom at one time? How come you no longer believe what the Bible clearly teaches about the Millennial Kingdom?

Errors and more errors.

Did you even take the time to watch the video teaching?


If you haven't watched the video, I suggest you take the time to watch it.



Proverbs 18:13

King James Version (KJV)

13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.


Brother Doug Stauffer is a Bible Believing preacher. He stands for the King James Bible. And he rightly divides it. The King James Bible is the word of truth.

 

[zone]

Brother Doug Stauffer is a Bible Believing preacher. He stands for the King James Bible. And he rightly divides it. The King James Bible is the word of truth

from your source:

"...Because the Bible is a supernatural book, it addresses individual passages to any one of three distinct groups—Jews, Gentiles, or Christians (I Corinthians 10:32). Applying the hermeneutical discipline of 'right division' is the only way to ensure that a message intended for one group is not accidentally intercepted and incorrectly applied by another."

 

[zone]

The “Scofield Problem”

The reason why Dr. Gerstner contends that Dispensationalism teaches more than one way of salvation is because of the statements of C.I. Scofield. It was the position of Scofield that legal obedience to the law was the condition of salvation in the Old Testament while faith in Christ was and is the condition of salvation in the New Testament.

As a dispensation, grace begins with the death and resurrection Of Christ…The point of testing is no longer legal obedience as the condition of salvation, but acceptance or rejection of Christ, with good works as the fruit of salvation. (Scofield Reference Bible)

Trying to deflect the damage done by such statements “Dispensationalists have adopted a number of strategies in dealing with the scandal caused by this passage” (JHG). One technique is simply to assert that Scofield did not mean what his words clearly teaches. Another technique is to modify what Scofield meant by a dispensation. Scofield taught that a dispensation is “a period of time in which man is tested in respect of obedience.” The new definition of a dispensation is given in the New Scofield Reference Bible of 1967.

The purpose of each dispensation, then, is to place man under the specific rule of conduct, but such stewardship is not a condition of salvation. In every past dispensation unregenerate man has failed, and he has failed in this present dispensation and will in the future. But salvation has been and will continue to be available to him by God’s grace through faith.

Dr. Gerstner is not impressed with the attempt to deal with Scofield’s teaching. “The newer Dispensationalism is one grand charade, its dispensations signifying nothing. While Scofield said too much, his successors, in their desire to avoid the scandal of the “Scofield problem”, have qualified the term dispensation to the point of extinction” (JHG).

....

Dr. John H. Gerstner, Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth
A Book Review, by Dr. Stanford E. Murrell, Pastor
http://www.sounddoctrine.net/stanford/Wrongly Dividing.pdf

 

[ChosenbyHim]

from your source:

"...Because the Bible is a supernatural book, it addresses individual passages to any one of three distinct groups—Jews, Gentiles, or Christians (I Corinthians 10:32). Applying the hermeneutical discipline of 'right division' is the only way to ensure that a message intended for one group is not accidentally intercepted and incorrectly applied by another."

What is foundational in understanding the Scriptures and the dispensational truths that are found in the Scriptures is the following:


The Jew is God's physical people. The Jew was and is promised a physical kingdom in a physical land. The Jew is promised a physical inheritance, physical blessings.


The Church is God's spiritual people. We are promised spiritual blessings, we are given a spiritual birth, we get a spiritual kingdom.

And yes 1 Cor. 10:32 does indeed teach that there are three distinct groups today in the Church Age:

Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God (consisting of both Saved Jews and Saved Gentiles in one Body: the Body of Christ).

 

[zone]

What is foundational in understanding the Scriptures and the dispensational truths that are found in the Scriptures is the following:

The Jew is God's physical people. The Jew was and is promised a physical kingdom in a physical land. The Jew is promised a physical inheritance, physical blessings.

The Church is God's spiritual people. We are promised spiritual blessings, we are given a spiritual birth, we get a spiritual kingdom.

consistent heretical dispensationalism ^

And yes 1 Cor. 10:32 does indeed teach that there are three distinct groups today in the Church Age:

Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God (consisting of both Saved Jews and Saved Gentiles in one Body: the Body of Christ).

^ the resulting confusion and inability to reconcile the problem ^

.....

is the Jew who is part of The Body of Christ (Church) in this Dispensation better off being of the spiritual people?
Is it better for a Jew to convert to Christ now, and receive a distinct set of promised spiritual blessings; given a spiritual birth; get a spiritual kingdom?

or is it better for him to be God's physical people?
since The Jew was and is promised a physical kingdom in a physical land; The Jew is promised a physical inheritance; physical blessings...why would he not remain with his own kind and receive the promises he was given?

why is your god mixing the Jew and Gentile in this dispensation?

 

[zone]

The present is the dispensation of the calling of a heavenly people, and, in consequence, God puts aside His earthly people, the Jews. The Jewish nation is never to enter into the church; on the contrary, "blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in"; until all the children of God, out of them composing the body of the church in this dispensation, are called.

- J. N. Darby

Lecture 8 of 11 on "The Hopes of the Church of God"

 

[zone]

CHOSEN:

how do you evangelize the Jewish people?

do you explain to them that they have 2 options?

according to your belief system i ask:

- is the Jew who is part of The Body of Christ (Church) in this Dispensation better off being of the spiritual people?

- is it better for a Jew to convert to Christ now, and receive a distinct set of promised spiritual blessings; given a spiritual birth; get a spiritual kingdom (one from which the rest of his brethren in the nation were excluded)?

- or is it better for him to remain among God's physical people?

- since you say The Jew was and is promised a physical kingdom in a physical land; The Jew is promised a physical inheritance; physical blessings...why would he not remain with his own kind and receive the promises he was given?

....

as well, how do you evangelize Gentiles?

- is it better for a Gentile to convert to Judaism (instead of the heavenly body) now; and receive a physical kingdom in a physical land; physical inheritance; physical blessings?

and lastly, will the two ever become ONE?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Any works Brother of the flesh whether be of the Law or not is not pleasing unto God.
For:
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Homwardbound, again, I understand what point you are making. But how does this relate to the initial discussion we were having regarding the Christian's need to confess his sins daily to the Father to remain in good fellowship while on this Earth?

you are either forgiven or you or not. There is no two sides of the mouth worshipping with the lips and the heart being far from the Lord too busy trying to do what is right when no flesh can be right in the sight of God
So continue on creating sin in your life through not believing God and your own flesh self in the way, as I am not under the Law I believe, but if I sin I need more forgiveness
Ludicrous, to not believe God to have done this scripture below.
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Well every Christian is forgiven.

But this does not change the fact that every Christian still has an old nature that he must deal with daily. This also does not negate the responsibility of the Christian to grow in holiness and sanctification.

Is that true or not? Does anyone sin change that fact? It is what it is Brother done finished Christ did it for you. When are you going to transfer from death flesh to life Spirit
Paul says it many a times in scripture and especially to out no confidence in the flesh, and you are stating you are to do this, when that is what is keeping you in your sinful behavior
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Let's also look at 1 John:


6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. - 1 John 1:6-10 (King James Bible)


What John is teaching in this passage is fellowship of the Believer. Even though we are saved, and redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. We still need to confess and forsake the sins we commit in the flesh here on Earth, that way our fellowship with our Heavenly Father stays in good standing.


That's why Paul said in 1 Cor. 11:31 if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. And then he also goes on to write that: But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


It is right there Homwardbound. The context of the passage in 1 John 1 is fellowship.

Nowhere is there after the death of Christ anywhere stated to ask for anymore forgiveness after reception of the forgiveness provided at the cross
What you speak is a great will worship, but is not truth and your KJV says so, and you believe it is the final word from God to you, and there is no place set up for anymore forgiveness after the death of Christ

There is a place in 1 John 1 that teaches us that we are to confess the sins which we commit in the body after salvation for the sole purpose of remaining in good fellowship with our Heavenly Father while on the Earth.


9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. - 1 John 1:9-10 (King James Bible)


And notice that the context in 1 John 1 is not about salvation. But it is about FELLOWSHIP.

I am sorry and know you believe and want to serve God to the fullest, so maybe time to give up on sowing to the flesh and put no confidence in it at all. especially as an excuse to sin

Homwardbound, you are not making any sense. You pretending that you never struggle in your flesh does not change the fact that a believer is to confess and forsake the sins which he commits in his flesh while on Earth.

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


So please quit the manly ways of the flesh to ask for more forgiveness as if you are in the Old covenant without the animal and blood sacrifices
Out of one side of your mouth you agree we are forgiven then you say we need more if you sin.

The forgiveness that we receive from the Father after salvation is not for salvation. It is for Fellowship.


1 John 1 is very clear about that. Once you have salvation, you are saved FOREVER. You cannot lose your salvation. But if you mess with sin, and do not confess that sin and forsake it, well then you will have a rotten life as a carnal Christian.


I am sure there are a lot of Christians right now who unfortunately have broken fellowship with the Father, because they are messing with sin and are not confessing it and forsaking it.

you say we are forgiven I say Wow!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Father fro Son, thank you Jesus.
And then I ask you where are you going? you say back to Jerusalem. I say what for? and you say to get your sins forgiven.
I say I say I thought you said they are forgiven by Christ, done? you say yes I did. And then I say again where are you going? you say again back to Jerusalem. I say again what for? You say again to get my sins forgiven. I say I thought you said my sins are forgiven

Homwardbound, what needs to be understood is that Salvation is instantaneous, sanctification is a life long process.


I am going to say this one more time in this response and that is this: If you read the whole chapter of 1 John 1, you will notice that the context is not about salvation. The context is about Fellowship. Therefore if a Christian wants to live a victorious life in Jesus, then that Christian needs to yield to the Holy Ghost, be filled with the Holy Ghost, and purge out sin in each area of his life day by day. This is so that that Christian can maintain his good character, testimony, and fellowship with the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.

 

[homwardbound]

Homwardbound, again, I understand what point you are making. But how does this relate to the initial discussion we were having regarding the Christian's need to confess his sins daily to the Father to remain in good fellowship while on this Earth?





Well every Christian is forgiven.

But this does not change the fact that every Christian still has an old nature that he must deal with daily. This also does not negate the responsibility of the Christian to grow in holiness and sanctification.





Let's also look at 1 John:


6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. - 1 John 1:6-10 (King James Bible)


What John is teaching in this passage is fellowship of the Believer. Even though we are saved, and redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. We still need to confess and forsake the sins we commit in the flesh here on Earth, that way our fellowship with our Heavenly Father stays in good standing.


That's why Paul said in 1 Cor. 11:31 if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. And then he also goes on to write that: But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


It is right there Homwardbound. The context of the passage in 1 John 1 is fellowship.





There is a place in 1 John 1 that teaches us that we are to confess the sins which we commit in the body after salvation for the sole purpose of remaining in good fellowship with our Heavenly Father while on the Earth.


9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. - 1 John 1:9-10 (King James Bible)


And notice that the context in 1 John 1 is not about salvation. But it is about FELLOWSHIP.





Homwardbound, you are not making any sense. You pretending that you never struggle in your flesh does not change the fact that a believer is to confess and forsake the sins which he commits in his flesh while on Earth.





The forgiveness that we receive from the Father after salvation is not for salvation. It is for Fellowship.


1 John 1 is very clear about that. Once you have salvation, you are saved FOREVER. You cannot lose your salvation. But if you mess with sin, and do not confess that sin and forsake it, well then you will have a rotten life as a carnal Christian.


I am sure there are a lot of Christians right now who unfortunately have broken fellowship with the Father, because they are messing with sin and are not confessing it and forsaking it.




Homwardbound, what needs to be understood is that Salvation is instantaneous, sanctification is a life long process.


I am going to say this one more time in this response and that is this: If you read the whole chapter of 1 John 1, you will notice that the context is not about salvation. The context is about Fellowship. Therefore if a Christian wants to live a victorious life in Jesus, then that Christian needs to yield to the Holy Ghost, be filled with the Holy Ghost, and purge out sin in each area of his life day by day. This is so that that Christian can maintain his good character, testimony, and fellowship with the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Nothing wrong with confessing sin Brother and is good to confess, But not for anymore forgiveness is my total point
Confession is approaching the throne of grace in confidence thanks to Christ back at the cross, where yes we are 100% forgiven.
So when I Sin I say Father thank you for taking that sin away via your Son. And I hear what sin? Which confirms the taking away, behind his back never to see again

So I go on and say Please teach me how to walk in total dependence on you, so that I will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. For what I want to do I don't, for I am carnal sold under sin, and I hear Paul telling us we are dead to sin by the Baptism, and I just can't get past thinking abut stopping sin.
That is where the exchanged life begins with the admittance, confession of "I" can't, now God can.
A man does not put his lamp under a bed for no one to see, he puts is on the lampstand
for all to see
Jesus is the Lamp and if he just lives in my heart and my mind set has not been renewed to Father's sight through Son, the Lamp is hidden

There is a big difference between confessing and being forgiven, that is my point
If one ever desires to cross on through to the other side that is, and be free of that picket line of the flesh that just wants to look so good
Look By Christ is this truth or not?
Praying we both get and understand this from God to us a free gift wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and is not to be taken for granted ever IMOP.

 

[homwardbound]

I am going to say this one more time in this response and that is this: If you read the whole chapter of 1 John 1, you will notice that the context is not about salvation. The context is about Fellowship. Therefore if a Christian wants to live a victorious life in Jesus, then that Christian needs to yield to the Holy Ghost, be filled with the Holy Ghost, and purge out sin in each area of his life day by day. This is so that that Christian can maintain his good character, testimony, and fellowship with the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.

The context written is about Gnostics not believing Christ came in the flesh. They believed but since all flesh is evil Christ could not have come in the flesh and were spreading lies as Christ did come in the flesh and is why it starts:

[h=3]1 John 1[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; [SUP]2 [/SUP](for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us [SUP]3 [/SUP]that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

So Brother what is the context about? Christ coming in the flesh, that was what John answered to the person heading up the fellowship that had people that did not believe they had a sin nature nor tat Christ came in the flesh.
It is not about being in and out of fellowship, it is about finalizing the truth the whole truth.
Christ was manifested in the flesh, died to the flesh and raised justified in the Spirit. This for all, those that believe God
So by Christ's death in flesh since you believe from God the Father's perspective you are dead in the flesh too, Father sees through Son as you are perfect, and this is too be appreciated not self will worship of repenting over and over again
So Paul tells you:


[h=3]Romans 6:1-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: [SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.




So by his death are you dead? And now by his life are you alive?
Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[homwardbound]

So should we be sinning after belief? no not at all so John goes on into 1john 2 and starts it off with
[h=3]1 John 2[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

So that we do not what? And so Brother working out your own salvation is great but keeps one in fear and out of fellowship as where it seems you might be at, only you know this for sure. But when one reads the next verse after the first of working out their own salvation with fear and trembling, the next Shows it is all God to manifest himself 100% through you as you continue to learn it is all God and none of you ever.

[h=3]Philippians 2:12-13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[zone]

CHOSEN:

how do you evangelize the Jewish people?

do you explain to them that they have 2 options?

according to your belief system i ask:

- is the Jew who is part of The Body of Christ (Church) in this Dispensation better off being of the spiritual people?

- is it better for a Jew to convert to Christ now, and receive a distinct set of promised spiritual blessings; given a spiritual birth; get a spiritual kingdom (one from which the rest of his brethren in the nation were excluded)?

- or is it better for him to remain among God's physical people?

- since you say The Jew was and is promised a physical kingdom in a physical land; The Jew is promised a physical inheritance; physical blessings...why would he not remain with his own kind and receive the promises he was given?

....

as well, how do you evangelize Gentiles?

- is it better for a Gentile to convert to Judaism (instead of the heavenly body) now; and receive a physical kingdom in a physical land; physical inheritance; physical blessings?

and lastly, will the two ever become ONE?

hi Chosen - please address when you get time.
thanks, zone.