Okay...I've decided to write about birth control pills.

[Christianrkchk89]

WARNING: This thread is about Birth control pills.

I'm not really asking for a debate or whatever...I just want to let you know what they do. A friend of mine asked me about what I knew about the pill and I see Topher talk about it quite often in the forums and no one seems to believe what he says...because we've all been misinformed? I got this information firstly during my Christian University's biology class (during our sanctity of life discussion) & then again with this link...

skip to 55:00 and watch this (or just watch the whole thing if your curious about all the different kinds of birth control. This is Mark Driscoll talking to his church in Washington) http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/.../birth-control

The way I have come to understand the pill is that it works three ways. 1) Tricks the woman's body into thinking that she's already pregnant and keeping ovulation from happening. Therefore no egg is produced. 2) By thickening the cervical mucus making it much harder to the sperm to reach the egg. [These two are just preventative, they aren't related to abortion].

Number 3 is where it gets tricky....because if the first two ways don't work and the egg does get fertilized...

3) The pill shrivels up the lining of the uterus so it is either unable or less able to let the fertilized egg grow and develop.

So, it could be POTENTIALLY abortive. But not always. Only if the first two ways fail and then the fertilized egg can't latch on to the uterus an then get's flushed out. Which i suppose is technically a miscarriage? And I'm not necessarily against the pill. I just think that more people need to know that it COULD be abortive. And they need to pray about it before they make any decisions. The link I gave tells about all the forms of birth control and what are totally safe for Christians to use and what aren't necessarily correct for Christians to use. He also talks about real life experiences.

[This part is added for those of you looking at the pill because you aren't quite ready for children]

I figure if you're married and aren't ready for children you can either abstain [which i'm sure isn't the best suggestion a married couple would want to hear] or use condoms and stuff like that. You can use the pill too ...but just keep in mind what i told you. And technically, a condom, a surgery, or a pill can't stop God from giving you a child if He wants you to have one. As of right now I don't see any reason why I wouldnt want to have children with my husband. If we went through a tough money time or something and had a child...God would provide. And if for some reason we REALLY couldnt have a kid in an alotted amount of time..i think abstaining would be the best choice. but thats just my opinion. Hope that helps some of you understand birth control pills a bit better.


If I've missed something feel free to add it below. And like I said I'm not looking for a fight. Just throwing some information out here that most high schools and colleges don't give. Luv yah all!

 

[ChristopherMichael]

You ROCK Betsy.

- Topher

 

[ChristopherMichael]

*bump*

Any thoughts anyone?

 

[iraasuup]

There is so much information floating around about this topic. I like the fact that you did some research Betsy, but still some of that is inaccurate.

I'll leave it at that!

 

[Christianrkchk89]

That's not helpful Katie!!! you've gotta tell me why i'm inaccurate or people can't learn.

 

[jasperjedi]

lol well, if you believe some of it is innacurate, I believe betsy would be alright with you showing proof of what is incorrect. Simply information, doesn't have to turn into a debate. I too find this topic interesting so it would be nice to have clarification.

 

[iraasuup]

LOL well I'm not trying to cause debate by any means, I'm simply saying based on my own personal experience (and my time working in pharmacy) that I don't beleive the pill to be abortive in any way.

Here's an example. Let's start with a really controversial topic... I'm sure you have all heard of Postinor-2 (aka the morning after pill). There is soooooooooo much controversy about that, people claiming its abortive etc etc. Let's stop and think about this for a minute.

It takes up to 72 hours from the time of the initial activity taking place for conception to happen. By that I mean, (in simple terms) a girl doesn't instantly fall pregnant if she has unprotected intercourse. It can take up to 72 hours before feritlisation/conception even takes place (if it does at all).

So that is why the morning after pill (well actually there's 2 of them in a pack) has a 72hour time frame. That means the first one needs to be taken within 72hours of the event taking place, then the next one EXACTLY 12 hours after the first. If left any longer than 72 hours, there is no guarantee it will work. It pretty much works as preventative- as in stops conception taking place, it doesn't (contrary to popular opinion) abort a feotus that is already there.

Now, let's move onto actual birth control pills (as opposed to emergency contraception).

There are a zillion different kinds, all comprised of different ingredients, designed to work in the body in a different way. The main idea though is (as Betsy first stated) that they PREVENT ovulation from occuring. Therefore brings me back to my point, they aren't aborting a Feotus that already exists, they stop conception from happening in the first place.

I know there are many legalists out there who claim it's wrong to use any method of contraception, but let's look at it like this. Girl use these methods for a bunch of different reasons, NOT JUST to prevent pregnancy. And so what if they do want to prevent pregnancy(provided they are married of course). I mean isn't it a couples right to choose when/if they want to have children. Sex was not designed soley for the purpose of reproduction.

Having a child is a MASSIVE responsibilty, one not to be taken lightly. What about couples who are infertile, or have other health problems, or ar on medication that may decrease the effectiveness of regular birth control methods? These are all things to consider. Not to mention that even if we are married, it's not our own individual choice to choose to 'abstain' in order to avoid pregnancy. The bible is very clear on this. We are not to deprive our spouses for any reason, except by mutual agreement, and if we do then that time is to be spent with God. Here's the scripture:


1 Corinthians 7:4-5
For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

So, I think that's pretty clear. I'm sorry if I'm passionate about this -but I am one of those girls who for many reasons I don't wish to disucss right now, have had to explore the world of birth control -and NOT just as a means of preventing pregnancy. I have had people look down on me because of this.

I have been married 5 years now, and we don't have children. People think that's weird, or that it's disobedient to God's command to 'Go forth and mulitply'. Yeah, that may well be what God commanded us to do -WHEN THERE WERE ONLY 2 PEOPLE ON THE EARTH! Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it doesn't apply now, but I'm saying today's world is ENTIRELY different.

As a woman (and a child of God) I have a responsibilty to make the right choice for me, and I should be free to do so. If anything I believe people who choose not to have children (because they know their limitations) are not selfish, but rather more mature and responsible because they aren't just having children for the sake of it, or because they caught up in legalism of issues like birth control.

I hope that makes sense!

 

[Christianrkchk89]

Okay, about your first point... The"Physician's Desk Reference Guide," that describes to doctors exactly what the various birth control pills do, gives the three ways that I gave for the chemicals to prevent conception. And like anything man-made, the birth control pill can fail. When it does fail the the shriveling of the lining of the uterus can happen. And that is potentially abortive. Potentially meaning "Having possibility, capability, or power." But for most people...that's enough of a chance to think twice about using the pill.

Secondly, I didn't really cover the other reasons why women take birth control, other than to prevent pregnancy. I realize some people take them for health reasons.


"Not to mention that even if we are married, it's not our own individual choice to choose to 'abstain' in order to avoid pregnancy."

I dont exactly understand that idea.

About the verse you posted... when I was talking about abstaining in my original post I wasn't saying that it was only the woman's idea to not be having sex. And yes, abstaining from sex can put a strain on the relationship if you aren't both in agreement about it. And if you're definitely in a position in life that children are not an option....then I figure that means that you have a reason to be in prayer constantly with God? So that you can resolve the problem... so I don't disagree with that verse at all.

And finally, I'm not saying that people who take birth control are terrible people. I'm not even saying it's wrong. I don't agree with it necessarily, but it's not any of my business who takes birth control and why. I just want people to know about that THIRD way the pill can work when it comes to conception.

 

[iraasuup]

Ahh, that makes sense I guess.

I don't understand entirely though your point about the verse I posted. You said:

And if you're definitely in a position in life that children are not an option....then I figure that means that you have a reason to be in prayer constantly with God? So that you can resolve the problem... so I don't disagree with that verse at all.

What if children aren't an option because you simply don't want them to be? What if you as a couple both decide you just don't want children. Does that mean that you should constantly be in prayer so God can change your mind? I'm kinda confused. It sounds like you're saying well you should pray, so whatever the reason is that you aren't in a position for children, will change and then you will be in a position.

What if you DON'T EVER WANT TO BE in a position? What if you're simply happy together?

Just curious

 

[Christianrkchk89]

Good point. I keep forgetting there are people who dont ever want children! haha sorry. 'Cause I love kids soooo much it's hard to think of life any other way. I didn't mean that people who don't want kids at all need to pray until they change their mind....but if it is some financial or health or safety problem it'd be a good thing to be praying about it though.

I don't really have a reply for that I guess. If it were me than I'd probably get the tubal ligation or have my husband get a vasectomy. For one, you don't have to remember to take the pill all the time. Two, it's most likely more successful in preventing pregnancies than the pill. Three, I'd think it'd be cheaper in the long run? And four, they are both reversible.

And again, taking the pill isn't necessarily wrong! As long as you know the risks and such, it's of your own discretion.

 

[iraasuup]

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Just to throw antoher spanner in the works, what about methods other than the Pill?

IUD's, Hormonal implants, etc etc. Most of these are temporary, but more effective/reliable, and you dont have to remeember to take a pill.

What are your thoughts on those?? Bearing in mind these too can be used for 'health reasons' ...

 

[Christianrkchk89]

I haven't done much research other than on "the pill" and abortions...so maybe someone else can insert info they know about those here. ..So I can learn something new. and form an opinion..

 

[iraasuup]

Okay, look up info on IUD's (inter-uterine devices), again there's a billion differnt kinds.

I personally have one of these. My initial reason for choosing this didn't even involve the idea of preventing pregnancies, but rather for health reasons that no other method worked with. Now I have the best of both worlds, it's fixed the health issue, and serves its' contraceptive purpose'.

It's also effective for 5 years, with a rate of something like 99.1 percent effectiveness. It cost about 30 bucks! Work that out over 5 years...way cheaper than any other method, and it works for everything I needed it to do.

You do the math lol!

 

[Kaitlin]

I just posted this link on another thread, but here it is again, coz C89, you're right on the mark, the pill and any other hormonal birth control is or can be abortive, and a thorough research is done by Randy Alcorn, you can read and download it here: (look for Does the Birth Control Pill cause Abortions part 1,2, and 3) http://www.epm.org/artman2/publish/prolife_birth_control_pill/index.shtml

 

[iraasuup]

Okay I'm backing out of this thread now.

Blessings all

 

[Christianrkchk89]

thanks for the link, kaitlin!! i'll probably check it out tomorrow

 

[Christianrkchk89]

Some forms of contraception, specifically the intrauterine device (IUD), Norplant, and certain low-dose oral contraceptives, often do not prevent conception but prevent implantation of an already fertilized ovum. The result is an early abortion, the killing of an already conceived individual. Tragically, many women are not told this by their physicians, and therefore do not make an informed choice about which contraceptive to use." [1]

[1] Randy Alcorn, Prolife Answers to ProChoice Arguments (Multnomah Publishers: Sisters, OR: 1992, 1994) 118.


Of the half dozen birth control pill package inserts I've read, only one included the information about the Pill's abortive mechanism. This was a package insert dated July 12, 1994, found in the oral contraceptive Demulen, manufactured by Searle. Yet this abortive mechanism was referred to in all cases in the FDA-required manufacturer's Professional Labeling, as documented in The Physician's Desk Reference.
In summary, according to multiple references throughout The Physician's Desk Reference, which articulate the research findings of all the birth control pill manufacturers, there are not one but three mechanisms of birth control pills:
1. inhibiting ovulation (the primary mechanism),
2. thickening the cervical mucus, thereby making it more difficult for sperm to travel to the egg, and
3. thinning and shriveling the lining of the uterus to the point that it is unable or less able to facilitate the implantation of the newly fertilized egg.
The first two mechanisms are contraceptive. The third is abortive.
When a woman taking the Pill discovers she is pregnant (according to The Physician's Desk Reference's efficacy rate tables, this is 3 percent of pill-takers each year), it means that all three of these mechanisms have failed. The third mechanism sometimes fails in its role as backup, just as the first and second mechanisms sometimes fail. Each and every time the third mechanism succeeds, however, it causes an abortion.

This was all contrived from this website... http://www.epm.org/artman2/publish/p...bortions.shtml

You don't have to believe this info...but this is the third place I've found this information so far...

 

[Christianrkchk89]

http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/which_birth_control_methods_cause_abortion/

This site breaks down the types of birth control that do not, can, and could possibly cause abortions.

 

[iraasuup]

Well that's all very interesting, and I know how people can read that information and run with the 'birth control is abortion' argument.

However, my IUD doesn't work that way. I'm not trying to defend myself, or refuse/choose not to believe anything. I just know how it works, and also that its the ONLY thing (because I tried everything available) that meets my needs.

I also know, that I have medical conditions that need to be considered among numerous other things. I appreciate your research on this topic, and think it's great you're so passionate about it, but like anything, things aren't always necassarily what they seem.

At the end of the day it comes down to personal choice and convictions. I go by what God says. There is NO-WHERE in the bible that forbids the use of contraception, which is why I struggle so hard with the view of 'all birth control is evil'. Simply NOT true!

Like I said before the 'go forth and multiply' scripture is a very loose argument in this instance, and often taken out of context to justify peoples own personal agenda/or issues with this topic.

Anyway, I'm gonna have to agree to disagree. Sex isn't just about having children, and anyone who doesn't have children (for whatever reasons) or chooses to use contraception of any kind (for whatever reason) is not sinning and going straight to hell- contrary to popular opinion.

I'm done, thanks!

 

[ChristopherMichael]

Intrauterine devices (IUDs) generally fall in to two categories, I think. Copper, and hormonal. The copper is supposed to be spermicidal, but also agitates the wall of the uterus to prevent implantation in the case of fertilization. Hormonal IUDs work by releasing chemicals that are similar to the pill, but they also help prevent implantation through agitation. That's what I can remember from bio. First legit-ish looking link I pulled on Google seems to back it - http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/182/36/

At the end of the day it comes down to personal choice and convictions. I go by what God says. There is NO-WHERE in the bible that forbids the use of contraception, which is why I struggle so hard with the view of 'all birth control is evil'. Simply NOT true!

I agree with you a bit. The bible does say that children are a blessing, but that's far from banning contraception in general. I think there could be some room between the two sides of the argument for God to work. What I'm saying, and I think Betsy is saying as well, is that some types of birth control are less morally questionable than others. Getting your tubes tied or your husband getting a vasectomy is an effective (and cheap in the long run) way of preventing pregnancy. It also avoids a lot of the moral questions about using hormonal birth control. Not only that, but it frees you from a lot of the health risks associated with hormonal birth control.

So yeah, I don't think either of us are saying here that any kind of birth control is bad, just that certain particular types work in ways that might not be moral. Kind of like saying that it's not wrong to put an animal down if you have to, but that certain ways of going about it (lighting it on fire, drowning, etc.) are not cool at all.

God bless you!
- Topher