We know about throwing out law, does the law have anything good about it??

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Some of the way the words of our Lord are twisted to support strange man made ideas is so frustrating. Scripture says Christ fulfilled the law. That the law is love. That we must put on Christ and die to self. That we must obey with spirit and truth. That it is only through grace that we are saved. That we are not under law but under grace. That if we love the Lord we will obey. You would think that we would all agree, we would be united in our love of our Savior.

Instead, fulfill law means it is no good any more!!! Put on Christ means that Christ protects us so we can rest in that and not cooperate with Christ. Not under law means that we aren't to listen to it. That the law is love means that any instructions about how that love is fulfilled by us is obsolete. Such a twisting and turning of the clear words of scripture.

We are to follow the commands of Christ:
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:4

Red, can you explain this? It states very clearly that Christ is the end of the law of rightousness to those who believe. How was Christ the end of the Law of Rightousness?

Here is another verse that plainly states the Mosaic law is over for us who believe.
23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. Gal 3:23-25

This verse plainly states that before faith we were held in custody to the law but now we are no longer under it. How do you explain this verse if we as you claim, we are obligated to the law?

Red, these verses are plain to all except those held who are under spiritual blindness. I suggest you repent legalism and ask God to restore true spiritual insight.
 
We are to follow the commands of Christ:


Red, can you explain this? It states very clearly that Christ is the end of the law of rightousness to those who believe. How was Christ the end of the Law of Rightousness?

Here is another verse that plainly states the Mosaic law is over for us who believe.


This verse plainly states that before faith we were held in custody to the law but now we are no longer under it. How do you explain this verse if we as you claim, we are obligated to the law?

Red, these verses are plain to all except those held who are under spiritual blindness. I suggest you repent legalism and ask God to restore true spiritual insight.
it's obvious dan none of them truely believe.. so they have no idea what we are talking about, that passage is meant for those who receive the holy spirit, the bible is pretty spot on on what it is saying because this is true because we are under the blood of christ after we receive him nothing else, because i can't understand how people can say they receive the holy spirit and are still clueless on what this scripture means to us or in your life after receiving God, or say they receive the holy spirit and have no idea what it means when the bible said that God place the righteousness of the law in us, i'm off to work God bless...
 
it's obvious dan none of them truely believe.. so they have no idea what we are talking about, that passage is meant for those who receive the holy spirit, the bible is pretty spot on on what it is saying because this is true because we are under the blood of christ after we receive him nothing else, because i can't understand how people can say they receive the holy spirit and are still clueless on what this scripture means to us or in your life after receiving God, or say they receive the holy spirit and have no idea what it means when the bible said that God place the righteousness of the law in us, i'm off to work God bless...

I think it is a spiritual blindness or spiritual confusion. It states clearly that Christ is the end of the law of righteousness, but in their mind they see something else. It is as if they have a filter in front of them that keeps them from seeing the truth. It is a snare and they way out of that snare is repentance. May God grant them that repentance.
 
I think it is a spiritual blindness or spiritual confusion. It states clearly that Christ is the end of the law of righteousness, but in their mind they see something else. It is as if they have a filter in front of them that keeps them from seeing the truth. It is a snare and they way out of that snare is repentance. May God grant them that repentance.

Perhaps Paul was trying to tell us something here.

Colossians 2

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world,why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
 
Perhaps Paul was trying to tell us something here.

Colossians 2

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world,why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

IF that means dont keep the Feasts/Sabbath Shaul must have been bipolar because he also wrote this:

1Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore, purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new batch, since you are unleavened. For truly Yahshua our Passover was sacrificed for us. Therefore, let us keep the Feast, not with bold leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

Also, people read this passage through their modern eyes not understanding anything about Shauls time and culture, this guarantees a misunderstanding. Please consider this:

Colossians 2:16-23, "16Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, 17which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ; 18let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, 19and not holding the head, from which all the body — through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together — may increase with the increase of God.20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances? 21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle — 22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, 23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh."

I think we have v16 down, I want to focus on 20-23, as to see context. Shaul (Paul) in nearly all his thoughts talks about a topic and then goes on to explain, he uses an advanced style of writing as his (worldly) education was beyond that of the other NT writers.

20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances?

So he is saying if your dead to the world why would you subject yourself to its (the worlds) ordinances. To think he is saying if your dead to the world then why would you subject yourself to Yahweh"s/Yahshua's Commandments would make no sense, but he explains it further.

21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle

the pharisees had a law in which you could not eat meat and cheese togather, or even within 4 houhs of eachother. Now this is not in Yahweh's Law even, Yahweh's Law says dont boil a child in its mothers milk (3 times) (the local pagans had this as a religious practice Yahweh did not want His people to partake in these evil pagan practices) the pharisees using something called "midrashic interpretation" the pharisees looked at it and said well since it says this three times it must meant three different things. SO THEY MADE UP THEIR OWN LAW, that was completely disconnected from Scripture and enforced it as from Yahweh.

22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men,

So here very clearly he states "the commandments of men", now if you read from 16-20 you see he stays on topic, and 20 says basically if your dead to the world why do what the world tells you, so we can see he is still on this topic from v16. In this verse 22, he says "which are all for destruction", how does Sabbath lead to destruction and it would also have to be a "commandment of men" if there is ant commandment that is the farthest thing possible from being a "commandment of men" it is the Sabbath, it was from creation and it shows the AUTHORITY of the Creator, the mark of the Creator. Also tying a "commandment of men" to destruction Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to the commandments of men, you will die; but if, through the Spirit, you put to death; put an end to, the evildoing of mankind, you will live."

23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh.

Pleasing of the pharisees by following the talmud. v22 for context = "after the commands and teachings of men"

you see the pharisees would have a problem if you did things according to Yahweh's instruction and not their ORAL LAW, this is shown in MATT 15, 23, mark 7:7-9, etc

If you kept the Sabbath NOT according to the Talmud but according to the Scriptures the Pharisees would have a problem.

Matt 12:10 & 12, "And, behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. Then they asked
Him, saying; Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath Days?--so that they might accuse Him."
"And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

The "Rabbis" also made their own holidays, Haunnaka and Rosh hashanna and more. when they left babylon they even changed the names of the moons (months), and rosh hashanna even changes the time of the new year, commandment and ordinances of men. the calendar Yahweh instuted is Yahweh's calendar, the one who created it created the heavens and the earth. Our current calendar is the gregorian calendar, which goes back to the bablonian calendar. Yahweh said the days end and begin at sunset, not the "Rabbis."

% made up "feast days" the Pharisees may had, brought you to trial, beat, imprisoned, or even killed you for not honoring. The Talmud tells a story of another "Rabbi" disagreeing and wanting to follow the Scriptures, and the head Pharisees makes then man, on threat of death appear in public on a Scriptual Feast Day in a way that the man cant honor Yahweh, thus commanding him to disobey Yahweh.

Rosh Hashanah (New Year)
Rosh Hashanah occurs on the first and second days of Tishri (the 7th moon or month, Yahweh's year starts in the 1st month). In Hebrew, Rosh Hashanah means, literally, "head of the year" or "first of the year." Rosh Hashanah is commonly known as the Jewish New Year.

How does the year start in the 7th month? According to the Scriptures and Yahweh;s calendar the year starts in the 1st month, Abib.

Chanukkah
On the 25th of Kislev are the days of Chanukkah, which are eight... these were appointed a Festival with Hallel [prayers of praise] and thanksgiving. -Shabbat 21b, Babylonian Talmud

Tu B'Shevat
There are four new years... the first of Shevat is the new year for trees according to the ruling of Beit Shammai; Beit Hillel, however, places it on the fifteenth of that month. -Mishnah Rosh Hashanah 1:1

Purim
Is one of the most joyous and fun holidays on the Jewish calendar. It commemorates a time when the Jewish people living in Persia were saved from extermination.

Tisha B'Av
Five misfortunes befell our fathers ... on the ninth of Av. ...On the ninth of Av it was decreed that our fathers should not enter the [Promised] Land, the Temple was destroyed the first and second time, Bethar was captured and the city [Jerusalem] was ploughed up. -Mishnah Ta'anit 4:6
 
I think it is a spiritual blindness or spiritual confusion. It states clearly that Christ is the end of the law of righteousness, but in their mind they see something else. It is as if they have a filter in front of them that keeps them from seeing the truth. It is a snare and they way out of that snare is repentance. May God grant them that repentance.

Your understanding lacks, in the greek means the goal.
 
it is clear people do not believe what Yahweh, the Heavenly Father says

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."
 
Know this. You cannot, and will not, while being disobedient to God's laws, at the same time, love Your neighbor as Yourself.
It does not fit with reality. Understand fully the meaning of the following statement of Christ. " ​[h=3]Matthew 22[/h]King James Version (KJV)35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

I am not taking this opportunity to prove you wrong and myself right, but show me where I teach lawlessness and I will show where I have continuously say that love fulfills the Law. If I say that love fulfills the Law, then it should be apparent that the Law is being spoken about and the need of it to be fulfilled. Then it simply comes to the conclusion that the method of how it is to be fulfilled is being spoken about.

Have I not continuously said that we are to die to the method of having our righteousness before God through the flesh and become alive to our spirit so that we can have our righteousness through faith?

Have I not said continuously that the path of the Son is a Spirit led path and that the Son is the Law Giver? If this is true, would not the Law Giver give the Law of God in accordance to the Law? Not once have I said that we are to be lawless. But, have said that the lawless ones do die. Have I given the indication that the Spirit leads contrary to the Law Giver? Have I not said that that the Shepherd leads according to God's will : love? Isn't love God's will after all?

Perhaps it is my fault for not conveying that we are not under the Priestly Law of Moses, the sacrificial Law of Moses, the sentencing Law of Moses, the sanctifying Law of Moses. But, instead, I only spoke about the Christians being under the Moral Law of God. I only spoke about obedience to this Moral Law through the Son's path and method. I should have said that we are to die to the flesh and become alive to the spirit so that we can be led on the Son's path by the Spirit. I should have said that the Son is still the Law Giver, seeing that if I did, then perhaps people would have understood that if one is under a law giver, then that one must give out law and is needful to be followed. Then again, I have said all of this.

So, I ask you, show me where I say that we are to be lawless because of faith and I will show a false teacher?

--Chris
 
it is clear people do not believe what Yahweh, the Heavenly Father says

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

That prophecy was written about those living under the old covenant. Do law keepers not have any sense of historical perspective?
 
I truly feel like I have a mental defect. I read post after post here. I read that there are two sides. I don't even get what the two sides are.

I thought that by accepting Christ we are saved from sin :) and of course in accepting Christ we can not break The Ten Commandments

That out of love we follow Christ and of course in loving him would not break these laws :D where I am lost is it seems there are laws besides these ten :confused: if these are the laws from the Torah how can I keep them :confused:

I ask the people who I think are saying to follow the laws what doctrine this is so I can google it and read what it says :) yet get no answers :(

I think I am wasting my time :( I learn nothing but to question what I thought I was to believe

You do not have a mental defect, buckets. There are some here who have a spiritual defect and create controversy by constantly opposing the words of Christ (and his apostles). They have little to no faith to believe his words, so they are left with only one thing: the law of Moses. That is why they talk about it all of the time instead of the grace, love and truth of Christ. And that is why they pervert and twist Christ's and his apostles' words (especially Paul's) to try to make it look like we are under the law of Moses. This substitution of law in place of Christ is what Paul had to fight against constantly in order to preserve the gospel message and protect those like yourself and alexis who know the simplicity of the truth.
 
You have just demonstrated by your own words that you are against the gospel and the new covenant. The law commands circumcision; Paul said if you do that as a means of obedience to law, you have fallen from grace.
You have just demonstrated by your own words that you don't know Paul. I gave you time to change your mind but....
I quoted from Paul.
Acts 24:14 I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.
 
You have just demonstrated by your own words that you don't know Paul. I gave you time to change your mind but....
I quoted from Paul.
Acts 24:14 I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.

It actually says that Paul believed all that is written in the law and the prophets, not just selective things to suit an agenda of unbelief like the law cultists do.
 
It actually says that Paul believed all that is written in the law and the prophets, not just selective things to suit an agenda of unbelief like the law cultists do.
By accusing those law abiding citizens law cultists, what does it make you?
You keep pointing out what the law abiding ones neglect. Again what does it make you?
You keep calling me and others names. What does it make you?
Now if you understand what Paul said in Acts 24:14, you wouldn't have accused anyone who agree with the law.
 
By accusing those law abiding citizens law cultists, what does it make you?
You keep pointing out what the law abiding ones neglect. Again what does it make you?
You keep calling me and others names. What does it make you?
Now if you understand what Paul said in Acts 24:14, you wouldn't have accused anyone who agree with the law.

Paul himself was a law-abiding citizen, but it was the law cultists who falsely accused him of breaking the law. He responded by saying that he wasn't a law breaker because he believed everything written in the law and prophets, that both spoke of the coming Christ and his new way of faith that would supersede the old way of following letters of law.
 
By accusing those law abiding citizens law cultists, what does it make you?
You keep pointing out what the law abiding ones neglect. Again what does it make you?
You keep calling me and others names. What does it make you?
Now if you understand what Paul said in Acts 24:14, you wouldn't have accused anyone who agree with the law.

You like the other law followers, sit back and accuse those who answer a child who only asks simple questions. While you refuse to answer her. I see this as not leading her to Christ.
Read in Matthew the words of our Savior when people tried to keep the little children from Him. By not answering this child and claiming to know the truth it is in essence keeping her from Christ.
until one of you law keepers step up to the plate and show love to this young sister in Christ it would appear you mute your own points.

I have read her questions repeatedly they are not challenging but seeking questions. Questions that all have ran and hid from besides this man who you attack for answering.

May God bless and guide you to love others as He loves you,
Lexi
 
Paul himself was a law-abiding citizen, but it was the law cultists who falsely accused him of breaking the law. He responded by saying that he wasn't a law breaker because he believed everything written in the law and prophets, that both spoke of the coming Christ and his new way of faith that would supersede the old way of following letters of law.
Just as the law abiding citizens being accused of breaking the law. If one reads any "law" threads how they are accused, not the other way round.
 
Love as Christ loves He said this was His first commandment
 
You like the other law followers, sit back and accuse those who answer a child who only asks simple questions. While you refuse to answer her. I see this as not leading her to Christ.
Read in Matthew the words of our Savior when people tried to keep the little children from Him. By not answering this child and claiming to know the truth it is in essence keeping her from Christ.
until one of you law keepers step up to the plate and show love to this young sister in Christ it would appear you mute your own points.

I have read her questions repeatedly they are not challenging but seeking questions. Questions that all have ran and hid from besides this man who you attack for answering.

May God bless and guide you to love others as He loves you,
Lexi
I read slow and type slow. I haven't gotten to all posts as yet. It's like I'm a guest in a big party. I can't possibly please everyone in my limited time at cyberspace.
If only time allows but please do not accuse.
You know what? I'm just as confused as "Bucket" if not more.
Time and again I'm accused of breaking the law thru Moses by those who said the law thru Moses is no more. I don't get it.
 
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We are to follow the commands of Christ:


Red, can you explain this? It states very clearly that Christ is the end of the law of rightousness to those who believe. How was Christ the end of the Law of Rightousness?

Here is another verse that plainly states the Mosaic law is over for us who believe.


This verse plainly states that before faith we were held in custody to the law but now we are no longer under it. How do you explain this verse if we as you claim, we are obligated to the law?

Red, these verses are plain to all except those held who are under spiritual blindness. I suggest you repent legalism and ask God to restore true spiritual insight.
I had the same problem with these verses. If you believe the Mosaic Law is over, then you also believe that God does not have eternal principles, that God changed His mind in the time that Moses lived and the time that Christ lived. That would say that God is not eternal, we cannot depend on God for God could decide to change His mind, so we could not trust the God who is our creator, who we depend on for our very life. I felt that the principle that the bible is one unified book, with every verse in it about God saying the same thing, meant that there was something I didn't understand. I decided it must be in what was going on with Paul and the times Paul lived, for I knew that Paul only spoke through God, Paul's words could be depended on.

I plowed through at least 8 books of history of that time, being very careful to research the authors to find out where their learning came from, while I compared it to scripture carefully. I found that the people of that time never even considered that anything in the Old Testament wasn't of God, they would have thought we were sort of kooks saying it was all changed. To them the burning question of the day was if the gentiles wanting to join the church had to take on the ways the Jews lived, and they considered those ways very strange. They had two words for them, one was "Law of Moses" and the other was "circumcision".