Attack of the Judaizers

[RickyZ]

Mk 7:19 could not be clearer:

"(In saying this, Jesus declared all food 'clean.')" no matter your attempt to wriggle around it.

Take it up with Mark.

It is interesting to note that not all translations include the phrase In saying this, Jesus declared all food 'clean.'

 

[Historicist]

Jesus, in Mark 7:19, did not declaring that swine, monkeys, snakes, catfish, etc. are now food.

 

[chubbena]

Read Ge 9:3 again.

It just proved the magic of pulling bible verse out of context.
Read post #564

 

[WomanLovesTX]

All food clean but not all food.

Right. If it is not clean then it is not food.

 

[chubbena]

It is the hands they say are unclean, not the food.


Clean and unclean food was a matter of the Levitical law.

"Jesus declared all food 'clean'." (Mk 7:19)

Mark is addressing the law, not the commandments of men.

None of this alters that Jesus declared all food clean in Mk 7:19.

What agenda drives all the wriggling with the plain word of God in Mk 7:19?

Your issue is with Mark, not with me.

You've got it right....initially.
It's the hands they said were unclean.
So when Yeshua declared all food clean. The food in the context was the food touched by unclean hands.
Please take it up with......the context.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

It is the hands they say are unclean, not the food.


Clean and unclean food was a matter of the Levitical law.

"Jesus declared all food 'clean'." (Mk 7:19)

Mark is addressing the law, not the commandments of men.

None of this alters that Jesus declared all food clean in Mk 7:19.

What agenda drives all the wriggling with the plain word of God in Mk 7:19?

Your issue is with Mark, not with me.

Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

AND CONTINUE READING AND PETER GIVES THE REVELATION:

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Your gospel says God changes. The Word says Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jesus did not change the Word by adding or deleting. He made better definitions (understanding spiritually) to what already exist.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Peter, a Jew, had to change his attitude toward non-jews. It was never God's or Jesus intent to exclude any man outside of Israel. Outsiders have always been welcomed. It was the Jews religion, man made traditions that were out of sinc with God's Word. (I generically say God's Word, meaning I know it is all Jesus, for He is the Word from the very beginning.)

 

[JesusLives]

John, show me where Jesus affirms the Jewish sabbath in the NT. For example Show me where Jesus said something like "We must obey the sabbath" or similar. It is not there. It does not apear in the NT.

A great leader leads by example - all through the gospels Jesus was in the temple on Sabbath - teaching, reading, healing. That is not enough?

 

[Elin]

It is interesting to note that not all translations include the phrase In saying this, Jesus declared all food 'clean.'

Even more interesting is Ro 14:14, 17, 20; 1Co 8:8, 10:25; 1Tim 4:3-5; Heb 9:9-10; Col 2:16-19.

 

[Elin]

A great leader leads by example - all through the gospels Jesus was in the temple on Sabbath - teaching, reading, healing. That is not enough?

No it is not, we are to do what he commands us to do, not do all that he does.

Jesus also drove the money-changers out of the Temple, healed the sick, lame and blind, and died for sin.

Are we to do that also?

 

[Laodicea]

All humans on the planet have the moral laws of God written on their hearts. Moral laws have always been in effect and always will. The sabbath is not a moral law, it is ceremonial and has only been given to the Jews. Christians are under the laws of Christ, which are a ratification of the moral laws given to Moses and all of humanity.

More on what is the law of Christ: What is the law of Christ?

The 7th day sabbath in the 10 commandments is different to the ceremonial sabbaths. The 7th day sabbath fell on the same day each week while the ceremonial sabbaths were on a certain date and could have been on any day of the week. If you think the 7th day sabbath is not part of the moral law then you have to include the other nine as well.

 

[Laodicea]

I want to reiterate something I have said several times on this thread. Just because a person chooses to observe the sabbath, that does not make him/her a Judaizer. A Judaizer is a Christian who believes in the gospel and also seeks to be justified by Jewish law. The gospel of Christ alone is sufficient for salvation. Any time a person employs the gospels and adds anything to it, they are no longer fit for the gospel and are severed from Christ.

Gal 5:4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

No one here seeks to be justified by the law. We are saved by grace through faith for good works.

 

[Elin]

You've got it right....initially.
It's the hands they said were unclean.
So when Yeshua declared all food clean. The food
in the context was the food touched by unclean hands.
Please take it up with......the context.

The context doesn't change a thing in what Mk 7:19 states.

And nope. . .no Levitical regulation made food unclean that was touched by unclean hands.

 

[Elin]

Awesome. Very well put.

I would add that while the Mark 7 passage starts with a specific subject (about washing rituals), that specific serves to introduce a general discussion of 'what is unclean'. And that is what I believe Jesus addressed here, not the specific of hand washing but the general issue of spiritual cleanliness.

And Mark clearly states Jesus declared all food "clean." (Mk 7:19)

With Ro 14:14, 17, 20 etc., why the need to abrogate the word of God in Mk 7:19?

 

[BradC]

Read what I have posted and see how you have twisted the meaning to another analogy. If this is how you understand something so simple, well, the rest is obviated by your actions.

Tell me something under the old covenant that we as believers in Christ are to adhere and obey as a commandment that we do not have under the new covenant? There are many things that Christ has added to our lives under the new covenant that the old covenant made no provision for. There are many benefits within the old covenant that we can benefit from but we are not under the authority of any of them. If you or others want to put yourself under the legal authority of any of the precepts of the old covenant you can do so but they do not apply that way to the believer who is under grace and not the law. The law can not be held over the head of the new covenant believer who is in Christ. Old covenant believers were not hid in Christ, this is exclusively given to the new covenant believer and was never administered or lnown in the commonwealth of Israel.

 

[Laodicea]

John, show me where Jesus affirms the Jewish sabbath in the NT. For example Show me where Jesus said something like "We must obey the sabbath" or similar. It is not there. It does not apear in the NT.

Show me a text in the Bible that calls the sabbath the Jewish sabbath. It is always called the sabbath of the Lord.

Exodus 20:10 KJV
(10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Leviticus 23:3 KJV
(3) Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Deuteronomy 5:14 KJV
(14) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Nowhere in all the Bible will you ever see the sabbath called the sabbath of the Jews, or the Jewish sabbath. It belongs to God.

 

[Elin]

Jesus, in Mark 7:19, did not declaring that swine, monkeys, snakes, catfish, etc. are now food.

No, God declared that in Ge 9:3.

The temporary Levitical laws temporarily made unclean (defiling) some of what God gave them as food in Ge 9:3.

In Mk 7:19, we are back again to Ge 9:3.

 

[JesusLives]

So the Jews got it wrong?


Poor God, he is so confused.

Only veges til Ge 9:3.

Then piggies at 9:3.

Then no piggies at Lev 11:3, 7.

Then bacon and ham at Mk 7:19.

How's a fella' to know what fuel is to be put in the human body?

Sorry cant resist - Gen 9 - No piggies because only two went on the ark - unclean animal - Clean animals 7 went on ark. So if they ate piggies back then they would be extinct now.>)......

 

[Laodicea]

No it is not, we are to do what he commands us to do, not do all that he does.

Jesus also drove the money-changers out of the Temple, healed the sick, lame and blind, and died for sin.

Are we to do that also?

1 John 2:6 KJV
(6) He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[Elin]

It just proved the magic of pulling bible verse out of context.
Read post #564

Misuse of claim, and failure to demonstrate misused claim.

Nothing "in the context" of Ge 9:3 alters what God gave mankind to eat.

 

[Elin]

Right. If it is not clean then it is not food.

Circular reasoning.