Attack of the Judaizers

[BradC]

So are you advocating that the schoolmaster be bring the lost to Christ is not necessary anymore because of the new covenant?

You would not use the law as a schoolmaster without bringing the death, burial and resurrection of Christ into the picture of the gospel (good news). This is how the law was fulfilled and we preach Christ and him crucified. To those under the law we may come under the law to win them to Christ, but Christ will be preached and they will have to see that Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone that believes (Rom 10:4). The law is no longer needed to bring the Jew nor the Gentile to Christ. The revelation in the person of Jesus Christ has come and we can preach Christ and him crucified.

The schoolmaster can only confirm that the law was qualified to bring us to Christ but the Spirit convicted our hearts of sin and reveals the resurrected Christ. The law had no ability to reveal a resurrected Christ who put away sin once and for all and could never purge the conscience from dead works. The law is inadequate to do any of these things that pertain to eternal redemption. The testimony of the law is that the wages of sin is death but the testimony of grace is that the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. The law can make us sinners but has no power to give us life. The law will always condemn but grace will always make alive. The law is not enough to save the sinners and out away his sins, it took the cross of Christ to do that.

 

[JesusLives]

No it is not, we are to do what he commands us to do, not do all that he does.

Jesus also drove the money-changers out of the Temple, healed the sick, lame and blind, and died for sin.

Are we to do that also?

First part of your answer really does not make sense to me. By that logic we should obey the 10 Commandments because He spoke them or commanded them from Mt. Sinai. Which I believe is true.

John 14:12 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

 

[JesusLives]

So they ate the animals they took into the ark?

Where is that in Scripture?

The seven pairs of clean animals were for sacrifice.

Vegetarians before the flood but they loaded the ark lower number of unclean animals higher number of clean animals because I'm guessing here that God knowing the vegetation would not exist after the flood had the plan of meat to add to Noah and families diet. Plus sacrifice animals too.

 

[Laodicea]

No, the others were special Sabbaths, or Feasts, not related to the Decalogue.

I agree with that. They were special sabbaths not related to the Decalogue. Deca means ten. The 7th day sabbath is part of the Decalogue though. There can be no Decalogue without the 7th day sabbath, the Sabbath of the Lord.

 

[Mastersman]

I believe that when Jesus said He came to fulfill the law that included the Sabbath law. Hebrews talks about us entering a Sabbath rest thru faith in Christ. Though Jesus took care of the spiritual side of these issues, it has been proven that eating kosher is very healthy because God knew what was best for man when He gave the Jews these laws. In the same way if we take time to rest on Saturday and Worship on Sunday I believe it would do us good. Remember Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man . For man's benefit!

 

[Historicist]

Recently I have noticed a greater influence of modern day Judaizers here at CC. A Modern Judaizer is that believes another gospel. They believe and post another gospel of Christ plus a portion of mosaic law. Paul wrote the book of Galatians to counter Judaizers of his day.

Paul wrote:
The false gospel of the Judaizers never leads one to salvation. They teach a contradiction of grace plus law. The Galation Judaizers taught that one must follow Christ and be circumcised. Today the modern Judaizers teach "Christ plus sabbath observance" or "Christ plus Kosher foods", etc. What they do not realize is that any gospel message of Christ plus anything is a false Gospel. A little leaven leavens the whole dough.

This is why Paul wrote:
This false gospel severs a person from salvation. They are not fit for the kingdom and those who follow them are at risk of being cut off from Christ.

I never wish to get into a debate over denominational theology because some things do not cause a loss of salvation. On the other hand, I feel compelled to warn Judaizers in hopes they turn from the false gospel to the true gospel which saves.

danschance, are you telling us that "transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4), proves one is saved, that by transgressing the law one proves they are not trying to earn their salvation and are not therefore,fallen from grace? Am I, because I respect one day in seven, fallen from grace? Am I, because I use the same moral compass Jesus did, fallen from grace? Why did Jesus, when prophesing of, fallen from grace Christians, those to whom he will say "...depart from me" Matt. 7:23, do so in the context of lawlessness ("iniquity" [v. 23]). Please, compare your antinomian position to Matt. 7:21-23 and recognize the foundation of sand it is built on.

 

[chubbena]

The context doesn't change a thing in what Mk 7:19 states.

And nope. . .no Levitical regulation made food unclean that was touched by unclean hands.

It wasn't Levitical regulation. It was "holding to the tradition of the elders" c.f. Mark 7:3
You may take it up with.....the context.

 

[chubbena]

Sorry cant resist - Gen 9 - No piggies because only two went on the ark - unclean animal - Clean animals 7 went on ark. So if they ate piggies back then they would be extinct now.>)......

I said that earlier too but sure enough was ignored.

 

[Historicist]

I believe that when Jesus said He came to fulfill the law that included the Sabbath law. Hebrews talks about us entering a Sabbath rest thru faith in Christ. Though Jesus took care of the spiritual side of these issues, it has been proven that eating kosher is very healthy because God knew what was best for man when He gave the Jews these laws. In the same way if we take time to rest on Saturday and Worship on Sunday I believe it would do us good. Remember Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man . For man's benefit!

Jesus said he did not come to destroy but to fulfill the law. "Fulfill," therefore does not mean destroy or abrogate. "Fulfill," in this context, means he fulfilled the ceremonial portion of the law (bood sacrafice, circumcision, festival sabbaths, etc). The moral portion of the law, a summary of which is the Ten Commandments remains. If this were not true John would not have told us that "...sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). The Bible does not contradict itself.

 

[chubbena]

Misuse of claim, and failure to demonstrate misused claim.

Nothing "in the context" of Ge 9:3 alters what God gave mankind to eat.

If contest means to you focus on one verse and ignore what's going on before and after then you are absolutely right.

 

[RedTent]

Jesus said he did not come to destroy but to fulfill the law. "Fulfill," therefore does not mean destroy or abrogate. "Fulfill," in this context, means he fulfilled the ceremonial portion of the law (bood sacrafice, circumcision, festival sabbaths, etc). The moral portion of the law, a summary of which is the Ten Commandments remains. If this were not true John would not have told us that "...sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). The Bible does not contradict itself.

Scripture doesn't say this, and we must not add our own understanding of scripture to scripture. Christ explained it when he told us "you have been told" "but I tell you". Christ said the law remained the same, but He explained it, or fulfilled it, more thoroughly. You may be right in your assumption about fulfilled, but it is not scripture based and we must not add our own.

 

[vic1980]

Jesus said he did not come to destroy but to fulfill the law. "Fulfill," therefore does not mean destroy or abrogate. "Fulfill," in this context, means he fulfilled the ceremonial portion of the law (bood sacrafice, circumcision, festival sabbaths, etc). The moral portion of the law, a summary of which is the Ten Commandments remains. If this were not true John would not have told us that "...sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). The Bible does not contradict itself.

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

God bless

 

[danschance]

danschance, are you telling us that "transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4), proves one is saved, that by transgressing the law one proves they are not trying to earn their salvation and are not therefore,fallen from grace? Am I, because I respect one day in seven, fallen from grace? Am I, because I use the same moral compass Jesus did, fallen from grace? Why did Jesus, when prophesing of, fallen from grace Christians, those to whom he will say "...depart from me" Matt. 7:23, do so in the context of lawlessness ("iniquity" [v. 23]). Please, compare your antinomian position to Matt. 7:21-23 and recognize the foundation of sand it is built on.

I have never suggested that sin saves anyone. Sin separates us from God. Christians obey the law of Christ and I have explained this to you twice or more.

Your accusations against me are not only unfounded in fact, they are pure lunacy and vitriol. I question if you are sane by the content of your frequent and bizarre rants about anti-nomians and eating monkeys. If you keep it up, you will be the second person in over a year to be on my ignore list.

Please do not address me any more.

 

[Laodicea]

I have never suggested that sin saves anyone. Sin separates us from God. Christians obey the law of Christ and I have explained this to you twice or more.

Your accusations against me are not only unfounded in fact, they are pure lunacy and vitriol. I question if you are sane by the content of your frequent and bizarre rants about anti-nomians and eating monkeys. If you keep it up, you will be the second person in over a year to be on my ignore list. Please do not address me any more.

Is the law of Christ the same as the law of God or different?

Revelation 14:12 KJV
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[danschance]

Is the law of Christ the same as the law of God or different?

Revelation 14:12 KJV
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Yes, I think so.

 

[Laodicea]

Yes, I think so.

You don't sound to sure?

Revelation 11:19 KJV
(19) And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


This is talking about the sanctuary in heaven. There is seen the ark of the testament which contains the 10 commandments. So then what are the commandments of God in Revelation? It has to be the 10 commandments.

 

[Elin]

Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

AND CONTINUE READING AND PETER GIVES THE REVELATION:

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation;

Yes, the defilement laws made a Jew unclean if he came into contact with a Gentile who was automatically unclean according to the defilement laws.

but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Your gospel says God changes.

The Word says Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;

Your issue is with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

That's a matter of faith. . .I can't help you.

Reposting. You left out the full explanation.

And what does it change?

therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jesus did not change the Word by adding or deleting. He made better definitions (understanding spiritually) to what already exist.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Peter, a Jew, had to change his attitude toward non-jews.

No, Peter had to learn a new law which replaced the Mosaic laws of defilement.

For in the NT, God set aside the Mosaic law (Heb 7:18-19) which defiled Jews who came into contact
with the unclean Gentiles, and Peter had to come under the NT law of Christ instead of the abolished
(Eph 2:15) Mosaic laws which were a wall of separation between Jew and Gentile (Eph 2:15),
causing Jews to despise (enmity toward) the unclean Gentiles.

It was never God's or Jesus intent to exclude any man outside of Israel.

It was not about excluding outsiders.
Many Gentiles joined Israel.

It was about becoming unclean by contact with an unclean Gentile.

Outsiders have always been welcomed. It was the Jews religion, man made traditions that were out of sinc with God's Word. (I generically say God's Word, meaning I know it is all Jesus, for He is the Word from the very beginning.)

Your comments alter nothing about the defilement laws being set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and abolished (Eph 2:15) in the NT.

 

[Hoffco]

I think we need to reconize that God and Jesus have changed/ modified the original 10 commandments. Men had more than one wife in the O.T. but that was not adultery, men killed men in battle, but it was not murder, parents don't always tell the whole truth to their young children, but that is not liing. The O.T. and the N.T. changed how and when and howthe sabbaths were to be keep.In some weeks they had more than one sabbath. The laws of God are situational in many ways. This is more so in the N.T. where we have he law of liberty, and the ridgid laws of the O.T. are modified to a personal choice. Hoffco

 

[vic1980]

Is the law of Christ the same as the law of God or different?

Revelation 14:12 KJV
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Psalm 15

1 Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?

[SUP]2 [/SUP]He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.

4In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.

5He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

They are the same

God Bless

 

[Elin]

Meaning what, specifically?

Is it not plain enough to you?

1 John 2:7 KJV
(7) Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

. . .from the beginning (of their Christian experience, when they first heard the gospel).

1 John 2:8
(8) Yet I am writing you a new command (Jn 13:34-35); its truth is seen in him* and you**
because the darkness (present evil age) is passing and the true light (gospel of Jesus Christ) is already shining.

*newness in the new and dramatic illustration of divine love on the cross
and Christ's exposition of the law (Mt 5), which seemed new to them

**the daily experience of believers as they grow in love for each other

The new command was to love one another as Christ loved them, not as they loved themselves, per the old command.
Ante is upped again.